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NutLoose
21st Jul 2016, 03:01
See

Police hunt two men who threatened airman with knife at RAF Marham (http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/police-hunt-two-men-who-threatened-airman-with-knife-at-raf-marham/ar-BBuAjVO?li=AA59G2&ocid=spartandhp)

BTW Since when did stations start adding tacky company advertising to the main gate signs?

GipsyMagpie
21st Jul 2016, 05:21
Tacky? Or is it the sad fact that enough people from each of those companies now work on the base and each logo is just like the unit patches above? At least it doesn't say "Cillit Bang and the terrorist is gone".

Anyway, good to hear no one hurt

Tourist
21st Jul 2016, 05:22
BTW Since when did stations start adding tacky company advertising to the main gate signs?

I'm guessing since they companies started doing most of the work and providing most of the manpower to run the base?

sitigeltfel
21st Jul 2016, 05:58
Over at ARRSE, a poster claiming inside info says two "dusky chaps" were involved. The victim, who is a Rock, fought them off and police have tested him for DNA traces.

Just This Once...
21st Jul 2016, 06:09
I'm sure the rock will pass the police test.

Tashengurt
21st Jul 2016, 09:13
Hmm.Kudos to the Rock if he did fight them off but I'm suspicious of this story.

Mil-26Man
21st Jul 2016, 10:35
BBC is Tweeting that it's not terrorist related. No further details.

Tashengurt
21st Jul 2016, 13:11
Now being reported as an attempted abduction.
An altogether more chilling prospect.

Pontius Navigator
21st Jul 2016, 13:21
Definitely not terrorist related - just two innocent assailants of middle east appearance.

The report says he was out jogging, one man tackled him and he knocked him to the ground. The second had a knife but went to the assistance of his associate. The Rock sensibly departed.

Jayand
21st Jul 2016, 14:51
Not that the guy involved was wearing uniform but I never understood why the relaxation of uniform off base came into effect after the IRA threat diminished.
Never used to wear mine off base, Tesco and Asda is full of guys and girls in uniform these days and always saw it as a risk.

sidewayspeak
21st Jul 2016, 15:08
If that Rock had sorted those two assailants out 'good and proper' (there are a few I remember who could easily have done so..), who do you think would have been prosecuted?

Yep, thought so. Salaam Alaikum.

Kitbag
21st Jul 2016, 15:27
I like to see the uniform on display outside the wire, reminds the public the Armed Forces exist. You all know they exist because you frequent this website, but, given the attention span of the public is more limited than my brain damaged goldfish, if the Armed Forces aren't in the face of the public they will be forgotten about. TBH around places like Colchester, Marham or Portsmouth you can pick out a serviceman in civvies at a hundred yards as poor Fusilier Rigby found out. Put it on, wear it with pride, and if you're aircrew don't slouch round with your hands in your pockets.

langleybaston
21st Jul 2016, 15:54
The wearing of uniform off duty clearly poses a risk to the wearer in these **** times.

I never served in uniform, but spent most of 41 years service alongside the RAF. Living near Stamford, I often see lads and lasses in uniform in town and in the shops. I feel the better for it, but I don't want someone to die for my buzz.

**** times indeed.

Kitbag
21st Jul 2016, 16:07
at least they should be able to trace the person posting it
And those linking it in their own posts as well

NutLoose
21st Jul 2016, 16:25
Gawd, you couldn't make it up, no doubt it all came from a photograph of the document some MP was carrying into Drowning Street. :p

If it wasn't so serious, it would be a farce.

Tankertrashnav
21st Jul 2016, 17:15
You can almost guarantee to see RN and other military personnel from Culdrose in uniform in the Helston branch of Tesco. I am always pleased to see them, and if time and circumstances permit I try and have a word or two with them (I exchanged a cheerful "good morning" with a captain, USAF the other day), although when this involves chatting with attractive female personnel (can't call them Wrens any more) it usually results in a few black looks from Mrs TTN!

Common sense has to prevail, of course, but I'd hate to see the services go back to the days of the 70s when we never wore uniform in public.

strake
21st Jul 2016, 17:32
According to the latest from the BBC, it sounds like the Rock in question 'dealt with them accordingly'. If we are 'at war' with terrorists, maybe the time has come for our service personnel to be armed at all times. That would nip this in the bud.
RAF Marham: Serviceman threatened with knife treated as abduction - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-36853106)

Chris Scott
21st Jul 2016, 17:50
This incident also calls into question the advisability of using headphones on both ears at a volume level that, in effect, renders the runner deaf to any audible danger signals - not to mention friendly or hostile calls from passers-by.

Jayand
21st Jul 2016, 17:56
Arming all service personnel at all times!! that's a joke right?
Get off your high bloody horses about posting docs online, this thread is about a serious attempt to capture an Airman by probable terrorists.
Is it right posting it? no, is it dangerous and is the document important? no!
Chill out and look at the real story here.

charliegolf
21st Jul 2016, 18:24
According to the latest from the BBC, it sounds like the Rock in question 'dealt with them accordingly'. If we are 'at war' with terrorists, maybe the time has come for our service personnel to be armed at all times. That would nip this in the bud.

Probably not going to happen. But an accidentally 'leaked' secret document outlining how all service personnel and high risk civilians 'are' going to carry concealed weapons until further notice would be a stop and think issue. Add to that the high level, "We can neither confirm nor deny that such an order has been issued, but be assured that our personnel are all prepared for such an attack."

Tashengurt
21st Jul 2016, 18:40
It was only a matter of time until this happened.
Such a scenario has been of concern in Police circles for some time given that it takes very little effort to have an essentially unarmed, lone officer delivered to a place of your choosing at a time you set.

Just This Once...
21st Jul 2016, 18:42
Those of us that experience the IRA attacks against service personnel, both here in the UK and in Germany, will recall that our duty was to be killed whilst bravely unarmed. Apparently being unarmed made us better, or something…. although I never paid much attention to the rambling briefs that tried to explain it all. I guess we were just grateful when they actually issued ammunition to the 'armed' guards.

I cannot see the UK ever arming off-duty military personnel. Carrying a weapon on a UK base in an operational theatre in the last 2 wars only came after armed attacks(!).

muppetofthenorth
21st Jul 2016, 18:58
On a pedantic note, would the MoD have enough weapons (assume we're talking pistols here) to arm every personnel, even with the reductions?

Shack37
21st Jul 2016, 19:47
Those of us that experience the IRA attacks against service personnel, both here in the UK and in Germany, will recall that our duty was to be killed whilst bravely unarmed. Apparently being unarmed made us better, or something…. although I never paid much attention to the rambling briefs that tried to explain it all. I guess we were just grateful when they actually issued ammunition to the 'armed' guards.


True but I could never find the magazine on my issue pickaxe handle :)

chopper2004
21st Jul 2016, 20:26
This incident also calls into question the advisability of using headphones on both ears at a volume level that, in effect, renders the runner deaf to any audible danger signals - not to mention friendly or hostile calls from passers-by.

IIRC, over the years have there not been the odd (sex) attacks (probably a murder) on females jogging in public parks with their headphones on?-

NutLoose
21st Jul 2016, 20:39
Those of us that experience the IRA attacks against service personnel, both here in the UK and in Germany, will recall that our duty was to be killed whilst bravely unarmed. Apparently being unarmed made us better, or something…. although I never paid much attention to the rambling briefs that tried to explain it all. I guess we were just grateful when they actually issued ammunition to the 'armed' guards.


True but I could never find the magazine on my issue pickaxe handle
Shack37 is online now Report Post Quick reply to this message

Do you ever remember using up the life ex ammo we had, when we were live armed in Germany, on the ranges, by the time you had found something to hack through the thick plastic bag they were sealed in to load them, you would have been better throwing the damned things at them, and that was when we were live armed lol.

As for armed with personal weapons, it wouldn't need to be everyone, just enough to make it a deterrent... Not that I am condoning it, but Israel do ok with it, After all what is the difference between armed troops who can identify themselves as such, and plods...Incidentally when did it stop, as troops I believe used to carry their weapons in ww2

Just This Once...
21st Jul 2016, 20:40
On a pedantic note, would the MoD have enough weapons (assume we're talking pistols here) to arm every personnel, even with the reductions?

The MoD ordered 25,000 Glock pistols, so we would have to share or something.

By way of contrast, there are over 34,000 police officers in the NYPD; I don't think they take turns with their pistols.

NutLoose
21st Jul 2016, 20:48
Ohhhhhh that's easy for the Government, reduce the Armed services to 25k, problem solved. :p

pulse1
21st Jul 2016, 21:07
Common sense has to prevail, of course, but I'd hate to see the services go back to the days of the 70s when we never wore uniform in public.

I happened to be in a crew room at Yeovilton late last year when there was an announcement over the Tannoy which told all personnel not to display any sign of military membership off base. I must say that I found it very sobering to look at the solemn faces of those around me as they considered themselves as potential terrorist targets.

Tashengurt
21st Jul 2016, 21:12
Pulse 1.
Experienced that during the Roal Moat episode.
A curious feeling.

Mogwi
21st Jul 2016, 21:16
I remember that back in the 70s I obtained a firearms certificate from the local police for "personal protection on active service" and wore my Colt 38 auto in a shoulder holster under my flying suit in addition to the Browning on my waist. This was later replaced by a 357 magnum snub-nose. Now that was an equaliser! Never used either but they were great comforters. Only gun I used in anger was the trusty 30mm Aden.

Bet you cannot do that now!

SilsoeSid
21st Jul 2016, 22:22
“What he reports is while he was running he becomes aware of the vehicle parked opposite him, but there was nothing about it that made him in any way suspicious of it, and it wasn’t until he was almost alongside it [that] he became aware of one of the occupants of the vehicle.”

Police could not rule out that there were more people in the car, Durham said.

“The attacker placed his hand on the victim’s shoulder and then on his wrist and started to pull him with a degree of force towards the vehicle,” he said. “Our victim resisted that, managed to break free, effectively fought free from that attack and rendered the first assailant – well, he effectively knocked him on the floor.”
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/21/police-hunt-two-men-who-threatened-airman-with-knife-at-raf-marham

So, he was running past the vehicle, parked opposite him and the attacker placed his hand on his shoulder then on his wrist and started to pull him towards the vehicle :confused: :suspect: This didn't happen around the nearby village of Wormegay did it? :ooh:

Pontius Navigator
22nd Jul 2016, 09:02
SS, and the significance of that?

Pontius Navigator
22nd Jul 2016, 09:07
If personal weapons were authorised, given the general level of training in close protection, I think there would be a high risk of loss.

If weapons were authorised for carry then I think it would be prudent that they were only carried when two or more people were together - armed police patrol in pairs.

Should Servicemen in private housing be threatened there are other issues such as family at home alone.

In Germany a few years back, after the switch to UK number plates, it was easy to see Britmil cars from unit stickers on rear windows to many other clues.

In UK it was also easy spotting military personnel driving to work in civvies.

Persec is a huge problem.

dagenham
22nd Jul 2016, 09:19
so basically ditch the desert boot / brogue / chino combo and wear badly ironed shirts is the solution?

Haraka
22nd Jul 2016, 09:31
In my time, one of the more cynical bits of advice given for non-specialists carrying personal weapons in the U.K. was , in the event of a confrontation , to throw the damn thing as far away as you could in one direction, whilst legging it in the other.
The closest, that I am aware of , to having been shot on an operation was when the guy standing next to me went down:

having been the victim of an ND from a Sterling being carried by the chap standing the other side of him.

sitigeltfel
22nd Jul 2016, 09:57
Those of us that experience the IRA attacks against service personnel, both here in the UK and in Germany, will recall that our duty was to be killed whilst bravely unarmed. Apparently being unarmed made us better, or something…. although I never paid much attention to the rambling briefs that tried to explain it all. I guess we were just grateful when they actually issued ammunition to the 'armed' guards.

I cannot see the UK ever arming off-duty military personnel. Carrying a weapon on a UK base in an operational theatre in the last 2 wars only came after armed attacks(!).

In the early 70s, after an armed IRA unit was believed to be heading for the area, the airmen patrolling RAF Manston were issued with pickaxe handles.

SilsoeSid
22nd Jul 2016, 10:26
SS, and the significance of that?

Firstly it was the last part of the village name, however having googled a bit more ... don't click on this link unless open minded! (http://wickedsearch.co.uk/norfolk/where-to-go-dogging-in-wormegay/)

Anyway, suspects description on BBC twitter feed;
https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/756100665655558144
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cn46hdeWgAAwbKk.jpg


"Officers were called just before 3.30pm to reports a man was approached by two other men in the Burnthouse Road/Ladywood Road area.
Mirror Online (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/knifemen-try-kidnap-raf-marham-8460976)

Isn't that in the MQ area ! :eek:

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g11/silsoesid/Screen%20Shot%202016-07-22%20at%2011.22.46_zps3jpvz6ov.png

Heathrow Harry
22nd Jul 2016, 10:44
Hmmm - this story is a bit weird.......

I'd hold off on the terrorist angle until there is some confirmation - two terrorists of ME appearance..... if they're local they're easy to find - if not a lot of coppers will be looking at a lot of CCTV... but why go all the way to Marham??

I can think of several scenarios where someone might be attacked by persons he actually knew but didn't want to talk to close & personal - they might be from Wonga for example.....

and (unfortunately) there are a number of cases where incidents have been totally fabricated for one reason or another

interestingly it's disapeared off the main BBC websites.......

NutLoose
22nd Jul 2016, 11:17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just This Once... http://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/581851-serviceman-threatened-knife-outside-raf-base-2.html#post9447506)
Those of us that experience the IRA attacks against service personnel, both here in the UK and in Germany, will recall that our duty was to be killed whilst bravely unarmed. Apparently being unarmed made us better, or something…. although I never paid much attention to the rambling briefs that tried to explain it all. I guess we were just grateful when they actually issued ammunition to the 'armed' guards.

I cannot see the UK ever arming off-duty military personnel. Carrying a weapon on a UK base in an operational theatre in the last 2 wars only came after armed attacks(!).

In the early 70s, after an armed IRA unit was believed to be heading for the area, the airmen patrolling RAF Manston were issued with pickaxe handles. Brize they took them off us, and gave us empty muskets on the gate, then they were going to issue live rounds, but what followed was the muskets being removed and the good old pickaxe being returned.

I remember while we had muskets some unfortunate civi contractor turfed up and during a security check of his vehicle an air pistol was discovered, poor sod had obviously left it there for a long time as it wasn't in the best of condition, but he ended up spread eagled in the rain on the deck with a musket to his head bricking himself. Eventually he was sent to sit on the naughty step before being told to take it home and not to bring it back..

Personnel in NI were armed when in civi's and off base, as the theory goes you are not off duty, so is there a difference?

Tech Guy
22nd Jul 2016, 11:32
but why go all the way to Marham?? ..

There is a families day this weekend. It would be prudent to think there may be a link.

rock34
22nd Jul 2016, 11:46
Families Day was yesterday!

ian16th
22nd Jul 2016, 12:26
SS
Isn't that in the MQ area ! http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/eek.gifThat was OMQ in my day, right next to 214's disperal.

There were complaints when we did slam checks early one Sunday morning :cool:

langleybaston
22nd Jul 2016, 12:42
As a matter of historical record, before the Great War all senior NCOs walking out [in uniform] carried a sidearm [usually the bayonet]. During the Great War, soldiers at Home from the front carried their personal weapon and wore the sidearm This at least obviated the admin. of handing it in on the way home, and collecting it on the way back. Obviously a zeroed rifle swap is not a good idea.

As a civilian I would be DELIGHTED to know that some [or indeed all] service personnel off duty were armed. Whats not to like?

The Nice terrorism was stopped two miles in by armed police neutralising the threat. Imagine a similar copycat here, say Stamford. How long do we think an armed response team will take to arrive? And as and when the terrorist is taken down, the law officer is automatically suspended and the Complaints process begins.

Get real, Britain ............. the time for soft fluffy idealism is long past.

Ken Scott
22nd Jul 2016, 12:56
I don't believe it's 'soft, fluffy idealism' but the rule of law -isn't that part of what we're fighting for & what hopefully differentiates us from the terrorists?

Across the pond unarmed black men are being shot by the police whilst on the ground with their hands up, because officers are so nervous. Arming all service personnel at all times, even were there enough weapons to go round would inevitably lead to accidental deaths of innocent people. Even highly trained armed response units get it wrong sometimes (eg: the Brazilian electrician on the tube), the last thing we need right now is some tommy/erk or matelot blazing away at someone because that someone happened to be non-Caucasian & 'looked at me suspiciously'.

Roadster280
22nd Jul 2016, 13:07
If more pistols were required, they really aren't all that expensive. The 25000 Glock 17s were GBP 9M. Say another 75000 were required, it would be about 25M, given the size of the order. Culturally however, it is unlikely to happen in the present climate.

Perhaps another way to approach this, is to allow servicemen to apply for the right to carry, through a very thorough training course and marksmanship exam. Make it impossible to pass without understanding the ramifications of shooting someone innocent under personal protection circumstances, and make sure they are proficient with the weapon. That way, those that feel genuinely threatened can be offered a route to a degree of comfort, and thus confidence. Lots of issues to be addressed, but terrorist abduction of servicemen changes things.

langleybaston
22nd Jul 2016, 13:11
QUOTE

Arming all service personnel at all times,

Not at all what I said, please read my careful words carefully.

The" last thing " that some of us want to see is terrorism on our streets, compared with which the very very occasional blue on blue has to be seen as a random and rare event, rather than a deliberate and hate-filled act.

SilsoeSid
22nd Jul 2016, 13:16
Seems very strange to try and abduct a serviceman in an area likely to have (armed) patrols with the Security state being 'Severe' isn't it?
https://www.mi5.gov.uk/threat-levels

If they were waiting for a 'random' runner rather than a serviceman/woman or a member of a service family returning home, wouldn't you do it somewhere a bit more off base?

I know we can't always look into the mind of a 'terrorist' however they can't be that ignorant of the risk of being caught that they'd wait on base rather than down a country lane ... can they?
:suspect:

melmothtw
22nd Jul 2016, 14:06
Seems very strange to try and abduct a serviceman in an area likely to have (armed) patrols with the Security state being 'Severe' isn't it?
https://www.mi5.gov.uk/threat-levels

If they were waiting for a 'random' runner rather than a serviceman/woman or a member of a service family returning home, wouldn't you do it somewhere a bit more off base?

That just makes no sense. I think it's clear that they were out to get a serviceman rather than "a random runner", and I would suggest that the best place to find a serviceman is at a military base, no?

SilsoeSid
22nd Jul 2016, 14:49
I did mean 'random runner' as in 'random service person' runner, but of course silly me; the suspects thought it easier to abduct a fit male on a run, on a military base, rather than a not so athletic service person or family member strolling home didn't they! :rolleyes:

Tankertrashnav
22nd Jul 2016, 14:55
Re my earlier post #16, Mrs TTN and I did the weekly Tesco shop this morning and I didn't see anyone from Culdrose in uniform, so I'm guessing the "no uniform in public" edict has gone out countrywide across all three services.

Heathrow Harry
22nd Jul 2016, 14:57
and one of them was "unbearded and wearing shorts" - stranger and stranger

according to the police there were a lot of people around by the local Costcutter - appealing for witnesses

Strilkes me that they haven't given any details of the car other than a "dark people carrier"- you'd have thought they'd have some idea of make and possibly the number plate?

BBC are saying "Police say they can't rule out terrorism but they're also saying there are also other plausible alternative explanations."

Kitbag
22nd Jul 2016, 15:02
HH why take any notice of random cars as they pass, unless they're flying that black rag of a flag I would imagine that it was just part of the normal background mass of traffic that an airbase generates.

Heathrow Harry
22nd Jul 2016, 15:03
I was thinking of the guy who claims to have been attacked......................

SilsoeSid
22nd Jul 2016, 21:25
Strilkes me that they haven't given any details of the car other than a "dark people carrier"- you'd have thought they'd have some idea of make and possibly the number plate?

Strikes me that someone hasn't been keeping up :p
It was a dark Ford Galaxy as mentioned in the link I posted 24hrs ago :rolleyes:

Jayand
23rd Jul 2016, 09:05
"Claims to have been attacked"
What you think he is making it up????:mad::mad:
And I've never heard such a stupid idea as arming all service personnel.
Questioning the reports that one was clean shaven and had shorts on as strange!
What because he wasn't wearing baggy trousers a black top holding a Koran he can't be a terrorist?

Heathrow Harry
23rd Jul 2016, 09:13
"It was a dark Ford Galaxy" - I think the police statement on the BBC said "like a dark Ford galaxy......"

"What you think he is making it up????http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/censored.gifhttp://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/censored.gif"

The first ruleof policing is to trust nobody and check everything - regretfully all possibilities have to be looked at - there is a long history of people making things up to avoid consequnces of other actions, or looking for attention or........... the worst cases are firemen who set fires because of boredom or to show they can shine........

in a way I hope he WAS making it up - it would be a lot less worrying than establishing the fact that there are lunatics roaming Norfolk looking to target service personnel

Stanwell
23rd Jul 2016, 10:28
I'm with you on that one, Heathrow Harry.
It is not at all uncommon for someone, under mental duress (for whatever reason) to make such a claim.
I do, however, have confidence that the police are seriously looking at that possibility.
As an ex-serviceman, I do NOT agree with the idea that service personnel should carry loaded firearms on civvy street.

Jayand
23rd Jul 2016, 10:55
HH, yes of course the police have to look at every possibility, including the very remote chance the guy made it all up!.
However the fact that it is a stated aim of these terrorists to capture a service person or policeman is well established with three known plots already attempted and foiled by security services.
As for why Marham, why not? can think of no better place to do it.
Remote roads, lack of cctv and very slow police response time makes it a perfect place imo.

SilsoeSid
23rd Jul 2016, 11:36
As for why Marham, why not? can think of no better place to do it.
Remote roads, lack of cctv and very slow police response time makes it a perfect place imo.

So why do it 'on camp', highly likely to be under cvtv coverage, with the guardroom (armed guards) a couple of hundred metres away :suspect:

glad rag
23rd Jul 2016, 12:14
Perhaps another way to approach this, is to allow servicemen to apply for the right to carry, through a very thorough training course and marksmanship exam. Make it impossible to pass without understanding the ramifications of shooting someone innocent under personal protection circumstances, and make sure they are proficient with the weapon.
been there done that for MANY years as a RAF technician Lots of incidents that never got off the base (s)
hot pursuit under Scottish Law! that was an interesting hour indeed lol.

Pontius Navigator
23rd Jul 2016, 12:28
the last thing we need right now is some tommy/erk or matelot blazing away at someone because that someone happened to be non-Caucasian & 'looked at me suspiciously'.
Actually armed Servicemen in UK have a pretty good record of not shooting civvies who give them the evil eye.

There were the paras in Shropshire, but they missed. There was the rather public incident in Gibraltar but they were highly trained. There was the unfortunate incident on HMS Astute (by coincidence I passed by immediately after the event), but of armed guards on the gate, the MPGS, the MOD Police, or Guards in London, nothing IIRC.

The difference is that the police were actively pursuing a suspect whereas military personnel are wholly defensive. When armed in Cyprus we kept our weapons holstered even in the absence of any orders.

Pontius Navigator
23rd Jul 2016, 12:39
SS, CCTV on camp? I wonder. We had one on our gate but it was only there to alert the gate keeper, no recording.

Tankertrashnav
23rd Jul 2016, 14:04
The incident was well away from the guardroom, and indeed well outside the security perimeter. As far as I can tell the nearest building was the local Costcutters, and I'm sure if they have CCTV it will have been well scrutinised by now.

Ford Galaxies aren't the commonest vehicles on the road, might be possible to identify this one by a process of elimination.

Al R
23rd Jul 2016, 14:15
I hesitate to post this, but I might be about to disappoint the more uncharitable.

https://twitter.com/jamiegrierson/status/756838961318879232

Rigga
23rd Jul 2016, 14:39
SS,
How can you assume the two perpetrators know what "On Camp" means? Do you know that there is CCTV around that area? - I think that's unlikely around quarters.

Marham has one of the best security set-ups ever by just having one road through it. Idiots like me realised years ago that there SHOULD be cameras on this entrances to the area and the mere presence of cameras (two per entrance) might prevent a lot of ne'er-do-wells venturing further.

Davef68
23rd Jul 2016, 14:52
Al R, that becomes more worrying and suggests some sort of surveillance operation as well. Beeb reporting it now as well

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-36873967

Also, BBC Radio reported yesterday that the serviceman had disabled one and the other ran to check the assailant was OK whilst the serviceman escaped. They also added that the RAF man had DNA evidence on him.

Jayand
23rd Jul 2016, 15:59
"been there done that for MANY years as a RAF technician Lots of incidents that never got off the base (s)
hot pursuit under Scottish Law! that was an interesting hour indeed lol."

So Gladrag, your telling us you had a right to carry and were armed on many occasions as an RAF techie and witnessed lots of incidents?
Well, we all did a stint on gate guard once, maybe twice a year but that's not what we're talking about. What you on about?
Unless you were an armourer and worked in small arms bay? and that's still a long way from what was being described.

Heathrow Harry
23rd Jul 2016, 16:01
lot of "may", "might" and "could be" in those links...

so far no solid developments..........

Pontius Navigator
23rd Jul 2016, 16:59
Dave, becoming a self-licking lollipop as the DNA evidence was a joke on here two days ago after the initial report.

insty66
23rd Jul 2016, 17:13
There's some proper garbage being written here.

The scene of the attack is not on camp.

None of the OMQs or AMQs are behind the wire and I don't believe there were routine patrols in quarters on the day (my guess). I'm pretty sure there's no CCTV in the area near the Costcutter, unless it's on the shop front.

The part of the road that was closed was on Squires Hill, not within the village or the married patch, the local BBC TV report actually showed a camera shot looking away from Camp and there were no houses in view. A fact anyone of the jogging persuasion is grateful for as after a lap or two of the village Squires is a proper pain in the lungs..

How do I know the geography? I was stationed there for 9 years and 7 of those were in AMQs. I no longer serve but still live in the area and have occasion to visit from time to time.

Just This Once...
23rd Jul 2016, 21:05
Fret not insty as there will be quite a few on this forum who know the married patch, especially those who have flown or fixed Tornados. As for me, I lived on Gayton Avenue!

The Old Fat One
24th Jul 2016, 06:22
A slight digression for all those who still serve and whose service I value and respect, and whom I would like to see stay safe......

I am recently back from a far away overseas holiday (matters not where) and spent an evening at a posh shopping mall, with many eateries, a few miles away from a large (not UK or US) military base.

Scoffing our scram, myself and my wife played "spot the off-duty military dude/dude-ess". It is INCREDIBLY easy to pick you guys/girls out in crowd.

Your haircuts.
Your physique.
The way you carry yourselves.
And, most of all, you are always in groups of similar types.

I'm not suggesting much can be done, or that you hide (don't let terror win and all that)

I'm merely pointing out an awareness issue...civvy clothes rarely hides who a serviceman is.

Be safe one and all.

sitigeltfel
24th Jul 2016, 07:14
Actually armed Servicemen in UK have a pretty good record of not shooting civvies who give them the evil eye.

There were the paras in Shropshire, but they missed. There was the rather public incident in Gibraltar but they were highly trained. There was the unfortunate incident on HMS Astute (by coincidence I passed by immediately after the event), but of armed guards on the gate, the MPGS, the MOD Police, or Guards in London, nothing IIRC.

There was this incident.......

MoD armed guard shot wife's lover Husband killed himself after attack (From Herald Scotland) (http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12273523.MoD_armed_guard_shot_wife_apos_s_lover_Husband_kill ed_himself_after_attack/)

langleybaston
24th Jul 2016, 09:45
QUOTE:

It is INCREDIBLY easy to pick you guys/girls out in crowd.


That is a theory. Unless a theory is tested it remains a theory.
Perhaps you should approach what turns out to be part of a civilian football team or a netball team and say:

"I know you are military!" and see where that gets you!

BossEyed
24th Jul 2016, 10:02
The IRA thought much the same in 1990. :( The two "off-duty military personnel" turned out to be Australian tourists (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killings_of_Nick_Spanos_and_Stephen_Melrose).

It is a question of probability, though - TOFO's point is a good one to keep in mind, I'd have thought.

Al R
24th Jul 2016, 10:47
Mill for the ARRSE grist.. ;)

Why RAF hero proved MUCH more than a match for kidnappers | UK | News | Daily Express (http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/692547/RAF-hero-proved-MUCH-more-match-kidnappers)

<<However, the ultra-fit man, in his late 20s, is a gunner from the RAF Regiment, a tough ground-fighting force whose duties include protecting airbases. He used his training to overcome one of the attackers and knock him to the floor to make his escape as a knife-wielding accomplice approached.

Police hunting the pair are understood to have taken DNA from the serviceman after his knuckles were covered in blood spatters from punching one of the suspects. He is said to have been extremely shaken by the abduction attempt outside RAF Marham in Norfolk on Wednesday afternoon and is being counselled by an on-site psychologist. The RAF Regiment is a very tough and skilled group of soldiers whose training is more advanced than the standard infantry.

He used his training to overcome one of the attackers and knock him to the floor to make his escape as a knife-wielding accomplice approached. Police hunting the pair are understood to have taken DNA from the serviceman after his knuckles were covered in blood spatters from punching one of the suspects.

They form part of the SFSG, Special Forces Support Group, assisting the SAS and the SBS on certain operations. Essentially they are the ground fighting force for the RAF whose duties are to defend airbases and overseas air operations. Part of their training is learning how to survive to fight in all environmental conditions, including close combat tactics and lots of physical exercise.

Members of the RAF Regiment are nicknamed Rock Apes. The name is believed to stem from a regimental officer hunting hamadryas baboons in Yemen in 1952 who shot another officer by mistake. When asked why he had fired at his friend by a board of inquiry, the officer replied that his target had “looked just like a rock ape” in the half-light.>>

pilot8
24th Jul 2016, 11:32
Been told to re assess our security whilst on & off duty for all military and civilian staff.
A few fatties at work now working on an exit plan, apart from dieting!

The RAF Regiment are not Rock Apes - The RAF Police however are called Rock Apes and have been for years!

FantomZorbin
24th Jul 2016, 11:52
RAF Police = Snowdrops

Timelord
24th Jul 2016, 12:33
Pilot8: You might want to take advice over your last post.

Chris Kebab
24th Jul 2016, 12:56
...the advice is...he's wrong!!:ok:

Tashengurt
24th Jul 2016, 13:40
"The RAF Regiment are not Rock Apes - The RAF Police however are called Rock Apes and have been for years"

Huh?!

NutLoose
24th Jul 2016, 13:43
The RAF Police are called multiple names, but Rock Apes is not one of them.

Shack37
24th Jul 2016, 14:25
RAF Police = Snowdrops


Often abreviated to Snoops

k3k3
24th Jul 2016, 14:45
LAC act CPL (unpaid)(unloved)(unwanted)(un etc.)

Shack37
24th Jul 2016, 14:56
Do you ever remember using up the life ex ammo we had, when we were live armed in Germany, on the ranges, by the time you had found something to hack through the thick plastic bag they were sealed in to load them, you would have been better throwing the damned things at them, and that was when we were live armed lol.


Not in Germany but in Aden we (not the RAF Regt) were still issued with the Lee Enfield 303 of WW2 vintage with ammunition. It was quite common when filling the magazine for some of the rounds to separate leaving the pointy end in one hand and the explosive end in tóther. Just as well we had TTN and friends buzzing around at the time.

Shack37
24th Jul 2016, 15:04
Originally posted by Nutty
Personnel in NI were armed when in civi's and off base, as the theory goes you are not off duty, so is there a difference?


When I was there (1968 to 1971) I was never allowed to take my pickaxe handle off base even when going to Vera´s for a few Guinness.:E

langleybaston
24th Jul 2016, 16:01
For the life of me I never expected to see Snowdrops called Rockapes on a Military aviation thread.

Must be the silly season.

Pontius Navigator
24th Jul 2016, 16:42
The IRA thought much the same in 1990. :( The two "off-duty military personnel" turned out to be Australian tourists (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killings_of_Nick_Spanos_and_Stephen_Melrose).

It is a question of probability, though - TOFO's point is a good one to keep in mind, I'd have thought.
Thing is it takes one to know one.

Krystal n chips
24th Jul 2016, 17:18
" That is a theory. Unless a theory is tested it remains a theory.
Perhaps you should approach what turns out to be part of a civilian football team or a netball team and say"

There is no "theory " attached to TOFO's accurate criteria whatsoever.

The simple and salient facts are that service personnel do stand out when in civilian environments.

As I said in a previous post, when staying in a hotel in Southsea, this was 2009, I watched in disbelief as Shrivenham's less than intellectual elite all formed into little groups outside the hotel, to be "briefed" as to getting their taxi to Gunwharf, where to assemble thereafter and which eateries they would then visit. They all wore similar clothing as military personnel are prone to do which also adds to ease of identification.

I also said that, apart from potential terrorists, not everybody in the UK was supportive of the UK military, consequently, behaving the way they were drew attention to themselves.

Then there are the ubiquitous white people carriers which can be seen at Motorway services.

The moment the pax get out, or stand around, it's obvious they are military. They form groups through the nature of being military and I might as well add they also tend to talk to each other as if still on duty. Then they all head for McJunk / KFC etc....as a group.

In 2014, I was sat on a train going through Shrewsbury and the carriage was "treated" to the arrival of, presumably, members of the Royal Irish from Ternhill. The drinking had clearly long begun and the language was more applicable to a barracks plus, they were openly discussing whom they thought would be next for promotion in the SNCO ranks.

Dishforth services, late at night, stopped for fuel. At the next pump, an Army officer dressed in civilian clothes, albeit standard "off duty" wear for officers, a topic which has been discussed on here before. Again, stood out like the proverbial.

There aren't that many military locations left in the UK and terrorists are far from stupid, they tend to do their reconnaissance to gather intelligence about potential targets first.

Tankertrashnav
24th Jul 2016, 17:54
Just as well we had TTN and friends buzzing around at the time.

Happy to oblige Shack! Luckily our chaps had SLRs, and the ammo didn't tend to fall apart. As it happens I was also on 37 but we had an F after the number!

Funnily enough I was only just talking to Mrs TTN about Aden yesterday. When we were outside the camp in civvies we certainly weren't armed, but always armed when in uniform, of course. I was there in 1966, I suspect by 1967 things had tightened up considerably.

TTN (ex Rockape, not Snowdrop!)

NutLoose
24th Jul 2016, 18:15
Not in Germany but in Aden we (not the RAF Regt) were still issued with the Lee Enfield 303 of WW2 vintage with ammunition. It was quite common when filling the magazine for some of the rounds to separate leaving the pointy end in one hand and the explosive end in tóther. Just as well we had TTN and friends buzzing around at the time.

One of the Sgts I used to work with was out there and he told me when he was on guard as a lowly LAC he was told if anything happened to let off a round and the troops would come a running, he said something about dropping his rifle or similar and a round being discharged, a solitary dog barking was the result and when relieved no one would believe he had fired a round off until they checked his rifle barrel. He did mention it was most perturbing as he could have been fighting off hoards of Arabs and no one else would know or come to his aid.

Old-Duffer
24th Jul 2016, 20:53
A little surprised to be told that the laying up of 31's old standard had been cancelled 'for security reasons'.

I would have thought it possible to have provided a suitable amount of overt and covert protection for such an event and news of its cancellation is - of itself - an admission that the bad guys have got us (the general population) rattled.

Old Duffer

sitigeltfel
25th Jul 2016, 07:11
When I was there (1968 to 1971) I was never allowed to take my pickaxe handle off base even when going to Vera´s for a few Guinness.:E

When I was at Ulster Radar (1974-76), the only time we were armed was when the RAF Police and Regiment guys knocked off for the night. That's right, when it got dark our security protection went home!
Occasionally there would be a dog handler inside the perimeter fence, but mostly security was left in the hands of the Air Traffickers and Radar Techs.
This included manning the gate for shift changes which were at different times for the civvy controllers, one of which we were warned had republican sympathies.
Drivers were supposed to turn off their headlights when approaching the gates, but he had to be "persuaded" to comply on a number of occasions.

Pontius Navigator
25th Jul 2016, 12:26
Presently, at a unit near me, they locked the private entrance from quarters thus requiring everyone to go round busy public roads to the front gate!

At another, with quarters behind the wire and a guard on the gate, the back gate is a simple unmanned vehicle barrier :(

Out Of Trim
25th Jul 2016, 16:27
Common sense has to prevail, of course, but I'd hate to see the services go back to the days of the 70s when we never wore uniform in public.

Ha! :confused:

I joined the RAF in 1979 and during basic training at RAF Swinderby was made to wear my No1 uniform on weekend passes into Lincoln, it always caught the attention of the locals and some fights occurred. I also wore it home to London. I well remember stepping off an underground train and walking a gauntlet of around 20 Punk Rockers stood on the platform! Funnily enough, they never said a word. They just stared.. Same thing on posting to RAF Shawbury for trade training.

I never had any live rounds on Guard Duty until at RAF Wattisham in the mid 80's and again at Brize up to 1991 still with the SLR. :)

I knew an AATC (TA) at RAF Manston on my first posting that had served in NI on Special Operations who regularly carried a Browning 9mm in civilian clothes off base.

sittingstress
25th Jul 2016, 17:41
24 years as a bearer of The Mudguard and I didn't know I was a RAF Copper.

RAF COPPER!!!!! How very dare you. Please allow me to gas you to within an inch of your life. Gas in this instance means CS in the Respirator Testing Facility.

Good on the Gunner for fighting dirty, if in doubt headbutt it out. All rules go out the window and maximum violence is to be issued in these circumstances.

I have no idea who he is but I am more than happy to buy him many beers and then indulge in Snowdrop Baiting :)

NutLoose
26th Jul 2016, 15:09
The story gets better

RAF Man May Have Given Suspected Kidnapper A Black Eye | Forces TV (http://www.forces.tv/17364259)

One of the men who tried to abduct an RAF serviceman while he was out jogging may have a black eye after he was head-butted by the airman.

Detectives from Norfolk Police say the suspected kidnapper could have “swelling and bruising” around his eye after he was head-butted and punched to the ground by the serviceman, who is reported to be a non-commissioned officer in the RAF Regiment.



:ok::ok::ok::D:D:D:D

MSOCS
26th Jul 2016, 15:30
sittingstress, you're bang on there mate.

Love ya style.

Shack37
26th Jul 2016, 20:58
Funnily enough I was only just talking to Mrs TTN about Aden yesterday. When we were outside the camp in civvies we certainly weren't armed, but always armed when in uniform, of course. I was there in 1966, I suspect by 1967 things had tightened up considerably.

TTN (ex Rockape, not Snowdrop!)


They tightened to the extent that we were no longer allowed to go outside camp. By then the families had gone home and the Camel Club did a roaring trade. I ended up at Ballykelly where we fired five rounds SLR per annum under the watchful eye of the local "Rock" but were never trusted with them for guard duties.:ouch:

Rosevidney1
26th Jul 2016, 22:01
I should think not!

PingDit
27th Jul 2016, 12:12
E-Fits released...
RAF Marham abduction attempt: E-fits released of suspects - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-36906031)

Out Of Trim
27th Jul 2016, 12:45
http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/950/cpsprodpb/161F5/production/_90531609_marhamcomp.jpg

Wander00
27th Jul 2016, 12:51
Should stick out like a dog's b@@ll@cks in deepest Norfolk, unless they have six webbed toes that is.................

sidewayspeak
27th Jul 2016, 17:28
I wore the Mudguards for 22 years myself. Delighted to hear this young Rock made short work of one of them. Just a pity he didn't kill him. Few blokes I worked with certainly would have.

Tankertrashnav
27th Jul 2016, 22:32
I don't think that its very likely these blokes live in Swaffham or King's Lynn. They were probably back down the A/M11 and in London within a few hours.

Always have a wry smile when these jokes about 6 toes etc come up. Whoever started that rumour about Norfolk had obviously never lived in West Cornwall!

(saving your presence Rosevidney ;))

sittingstress
27th Jul 2016, 23:02
TTN - I totally agree. I lived in Watton for a couple of years and not once did I see the fabled 6 and or webbed toes.

I was surprised at the local farrier's roaring trade in the rasping off of head cones though :)

Ra Ra the RAF Regt.

ian16th
28th Jul 2016, 08:28
I don't think that its very likely these blokes live in Swaffham I'll bet that they can't even pronounce it!:=

Pontius Navigator
28th Jul 2016, 11:45
Now the cousins are known for their lack of humour and flexible use of ROE. May be our Forces should announce a change of policy, followed by the usual 'cannot confirm or deny' message.

Jayand
28th Jul 2016, 14:13
"Guard discovers three bad yins in the bushes, by the time he takes his five rounds out of the sealed plastic bag and loads the weapon, they have escaped in a car. One round fired as I recall... but it was long time ago."

Sounds like a tall story, completely against all the ROE.

Dan Winterland
29th Jul 2016, 01:30
"uaGrd discovers three bad yins in the bushes, by the time he takes his five rounds out of the sealed plastic bag and loads the weapon, they have escaped in a car. One round fired as I recall... but it was long time ago."

Sounds like a tall story, completely against all the ROE.

Think it was Shawbury, or Ternhill - this was in the 80s. Whether the guy got a shot off I don't know - but the plastic sealed magazines were fact. it was this incident which led to live loaded weapons from then on.

BATCO
29th Jul 2016, 06:24
Dan, J, AirPol

Outline of incident at Ternhill (from BBC account, 20 Feb 89):

"Sentry (Parachute Regiment) spotted two men at about 0300 hours acting suspiciously.

When he challenged them, they dumped a sports bag - containing a bomb - and ran off. The soldier fired three rounds from his assault rifle but missed.
He raised the alarm and the barracks was evacuated shortly before two bombs went off - no-one was hurt.

The bombers escaped in a stolen car, which was found about 10 miles from the barracks."


[COMMENT: From what I recall at time, the biggest shock to the RAF was that the Army had armed guards/sentries: RAF was still (less certain facilities and specialist personnel) on unarmed guards/sentries.]

Regards
Batco

Jayand
29th Jul 2016, 06:32
Airpolice, it was 1989 not late 90's. Late 90's and everyone on guard was armed with mags fitted. Without giving away ROE your description of the event would not have allowed for opening fire.
The para however did but missed. :{

Pontius Navigator
29th Jul 2016, 07:57
Jayland, is correct and that was the basis for Clegg' s conviction.

Regarding BATCO' s comment, IMHO the RAF policy was immoral. Give a man a gun, he becomes a target. No ammunition and he is a lamb to slaughter or She even.

In 1972, at Akrotiri, we had a high security alert and a exercise was called. Air Cdre Stacey made the decision that everyone would be live armed. Our 9mm mags had the bullets secured with cellophane, more a precaution against loose rounds.

Al R
29th Jul 2016, 13:03
Breaking: Sighted in Colchester?

https://twitter.com/bbcessex/status/759009912294821890

Heathrow Harry
29th Jul 2016, 13:51
maybe false alarm......

14:39 BBC Live

"Norfolk Police says it has liaised with Essex Police and is "satisfied" that a reported sighting of two men near Colchester barrack is not linked to their investigation into an attempted abduction at RAF Marham."

vernon99
29th Jul 2016, 16:55
Dan, J, AirPol

Outline of incident at Ternhill (from BBC account, 20 Feb 89):

[COMMENT: From what I recall at time, the biggest shock to the RAF was that the Army had armed guards/sentries: RAF was still (less certain facilities and specialist personnel) on unarmed guards/sentries.]

Regards
Batco

I was on guard duty at Cosford that particular night, and IIRC the alert state was already higher than normal, but in the early hours I remember being recalled early from foot patrol by an irate GC(we thought someone had seen my partner having a crafty fag), as we got to the VCP he asked us to unload(SLR but empty magazines) and then produced clear sealed plastic bags with full magazines to load. We were told the alert state had gone up and we were to search the OM area first. Not a nice feeling at all, OMQs patch was very open and easy to access on foot. IIRC we didn't hear about the Tern Hill attack until the morning(just as well really).

chopper2004
29th Sep 2016, 06:46
Hope to hell it is not connected with this and hope he is found safe

Concern Grows For Missing RAF Serviceman | Forces TV (http://www.forces.tv/57994614)

Heathrow Harry
29th Sep 2016, 09:32
Possible but unlikley to been abduction - he was in civies

"CCTV footage from Bury St Edmunds shows he briefly slept in a doorway before getting up and moving away. Police believe he may have intended to walk home to the base at RAF Honington. He is described as white, 5ft 10ins, of medium build, with short light brown hair. He was wearing a light pink shirt and white jeans or trousers at the time he was last seen".

Hope he is sleeping it off somewhere but it,s now 4 days.......

captbod
29th Sep 2016, 21:44
http://ow.ly/B4yv304EA8o

Pure Pursuit
29th Sep 2016, 21:53
The Marham incident involved a serviceman in civvies and contrary to the initial story, he wasn't on the married patch.

Thoughts are with his family and friends. I hope he turns up soon with nothing more than an epic hangover. Fingers firmly crossed.

Heathrow Harry
30th Sep 2016, 15:46
The guy at marham was very close to the base - and TBH there are as many questions as answers about that incident with an amazing lack of progress

"Police say they can't rule out terrorism but they're also saying there are also other plausible alternative explanations."

What did the police mean by "other possible plausible alternatives"?

The current missing person was in town and looks like any other civvy late at night. In the video it looks as if he's eating as he goes ?chips? - certainly not zig-zagging around or blotto

SilsoeSid
3rd Oct 2016, 08:20
In the video it looks as if he's eating as he goes ?chips? - certainly not zig-zagging around or blotto

Did you watch all the video?
Certainly looks a bit swervy after he 'drops the chip'.

sitigeltfel
3rd Oct 2016, 08:39
http://ow.ly/B4yv304EA8o

Enquiries and information received over the past week have led police to believe he may have been in the Mildenhall area at some point between 4.30am and 8am on Saturday 24 SeptemberWould mobile phone tracking data be accurate enough to give a fix?

Tashengurt
3rd Oct 2016, 08:59
A desperately worrying time for the lads family and not one that's helped by speculation however well meant or educated.
I've been involved in enquiries of this nature recently and they're incredibly time consuming and labour intensive. Modern technologies can help but you have to put the hours in to get results from them.
I hope this ends well.

Top Bunk Tester
3rd Oct 2016, 09:00
"Police say they can't rule out terrorism but they're also saying there are also other plausible alternative explanations."

Without casting any aspersions by asking the following. I feel bad just asking the question ........

Has anyone considered this could possibly be a case of Munchausen's?

Heathrow Harry
3rd Oct 2016, 12:00
there could be a lot of explanations why someone wanted a close talk to him and he didn't want to talk to them...............................


Corrie Mckeague: Bin lorry seized in search for missing airman - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-37541137)
the McKeague case has taken a turn for the worse - they've checked his phone and it seems to be in a bin lorry trundling around Suffolk............
Police searching for a missing airman have seized a bin lorry believing it may contain his discarded mobile phone.

Corrie Mckeague, based at RAF Honington in Suffolk, disappeared after a night out in Bury St Edmunds nine days ago.
Data shows his missing mobile phone moved to nearby Barton Mills, matching the route of a bin lorry.
Officers do not believe Mr Mckeague, 23, from Dunfermline in Fife, still has the phone and searches for him are continuing across Suffolk.
The phone has not been used since it was pinpointed to Barton Mills, which is about 10 miles (16km) from Bury.

In a statement, police said they were "exploring the possibility that the phone may have been lost or discarded as the timings of the movement has been found to coincide with that of a bin lorry". The lorry's load was weighed at under 15kg (33lbs), leading police to believe that Mr Mckeague was not with the phone.

His mother, Nicola Urquhart, is expected to attend a police press conference about his disappearance later on Monday.

Over the weekend searches by police, the RAF, Suffolk Lowland Search and Rescue and a National Police Air Service helicopter were carried out, but have not revealed "any new information".
Checks in Bury St Edmunds were also held a week after the last confirmed sighting of Mr Mckeague in Brentgovel Street on Saturday 24 September at 03:20 BST. Police said he could have been in the area of Mildenhall between 04:30 and 08:00 on the Saturday.

They said they wanted to hear from anyone who may have seen or spoken to a man matching Mr Mckeague's description in the area at the time.

tarantonight
4th Oct 2016, 11:55
Re 'Amazing lack of progress' - it could be that it is not prudent to share a live investigation with the general public unless there is a specific need to do so.


As regards 'plausible alternatives', until the full story/circumstances come out, an open mind has to be kept. Again, is it prudent to share specifics etc etc.


TN.

Warmtoast
18th Jan 2017, 11:29
Looks like missing airman Corrie McKeague and his pregnant girlfriend were "members of a swinging club".
See here:
Corrie McKeague's mum confirms missing RAF man and his girlfriend were members of swinging club - Daily Record (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/mum-corrie-mckeague-confirms-missing-9643398)

air pig
18th Jan 2017, 11:50
Has he done a runner with someone?

Heathrow Harry
18th Jan 2017, 17:20
Looks like the police are gradually releasing information they have to try and keep the case warm.

they almost always hold back facts so they can check on the nutters who call in claiming "I did it" (remember the Ripper tapes?) and also to use in interrogation.

God knows what actually happened - it really is quiet hard to disapear totally in this country in this day and age ...

The outlook is not good I'm afraid

ORAC
8th Mar 2017, 06:09
Missing airman ?is in landfill? | News | The Times & The Sunday Times (http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/missing-airman-is-in-landfill-hljf0tv0l)

New evidence suggests that an RAF gunner who went missing last year ended up in a bin lorry and was dumped at a landfill site.

Corrie McKeague, 23, from Dunfermline, disappeared during a night out in Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, on September 24. The airman, based at RAF Honington, was seen on TV going into a refuse collection area behind a branch of Greggs, the bakery chain. Police soon discovered that the signal from his mobile phone corresponded with the movement of a Biffa lorry that picked up the contents of a Greggs wheelie bin.A search of the lorry, however, found nothing and Biffa initially said that only 11kg of rubbish had been collected.

Mr McKeague’s mother, Nicola Urquhart, 48, a family liaison officer for Police Scotland, wrote on Facebook yesterday that more than 100kg of waste had been taken. “This can really devastatingly only mean one thing,” she said. A Biffa employee who was arrested when the error was found faced no further action, police said, adding that he had made a genuine mistake.

Ms Urquhart said she had accepted that her son was dead and on the landfill site. “I can only pray that Corrie is found quickly and that we are able to get answers as to how this could have happened,” she said.

Tashengurt
8th Mar 2017, 08:55
It seems like this will come to its sad conclusion fairly soon.
I hope the family can find some peace.
I wonder why they felt it was necessary to arrest the Biffa employee over the data error?

NutLoose
8th Mar 2017, 09:18
Possibly they thought initially the vehicle was overweight, and he had falsified the readings?

Either way, such a sad outcome if he is in there.

Pontius Navigator
8th Mar 2017, 10:08
I get the feeling that an arrest is almost routine so that the interview may be recorded officially.

sitigeltfel
8th Mar 2017, 11:22
Possibly they thought initially the vehicle was overweight, and he had falsified the readings?


Some sort of fiddle going on to reduce landfill charges?

Tashengurt
8th Mar 2017, 11:38
PN.
Not anymore. To arrest there must be a necessity from an exhaustive list.
Solely to interview isn't likely to meet any criteria.
Just seems strange that the investigation would go down that route.

Tashengurt
21st Jul 2017, 17:51
Police have stopped the landfill search for Corrie McKeague whilst they still apparently believe he is there or may have been incinerated. An awful conclusion for his family.

Heathrow Harry
22nd Jul 2017, 08:58
This is so sad on so many levels.....................

Corrie Mckeague: 'Nothing found' in airman landfill search - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-40685185)

An airman who disappeared 10 months ago was "known to sleep in rubbish on a night out", police have said. Corrie Mckeague, 23, has not been seen since a night out in Bury St Edmunds last September, when CCTV showed him entering a bin loading bay. Suffolk Police has confirmed its search of waste at Milton landfill was at an end.

Mr Mckeague's family say they are "devastated" at the news and disputed claims he would have slept in a bin. Police said all the information "points to the fact Corrie was transported to the landfill". Det Supt Katie Elliott said the landfill search for Mr Mckeague had been "systematic, comprehensive and thorough. Corrie had been known to go to sleep in rubbish on a night out. There is no evidence to support any other explanation at this time."

Responding to the news, Corrie's father Martin Mckeague posted a statement on his Facebook page saying: "The McKeague family in Scotland is devastated by today's announcement.
At no point did we think that the search of the site would end this way, and as all the evidence tells us that Corrie is somewhere in that landfill site, we are heartbroken at the thought that we may not be able to bring Corrie home together." His mother Nicola Urquhart said: "I have tried really to put my trust in them (the police) but to say I am devastated that they are now saying they think he is still in there but they are going to stop searching, I cannot begin to explain how that makes me feel."
She said she did not believe there was evidence he slept in bins and was "angry" at the claim.

Det Supt Elliott said police had spoken to one witness who had previously found Mr Mckeague asleep in a bin and he had been known to previously sleep on park benches, in toilets and stair wells. Although material from the time and place of Mr Mckeague's disappearance has been found at the landfill, the serviceman, from Dunfermline, Fife, has not been discovered.
In June, Mr Mckeague's girlfriend April Oliver, from Norfolk, gave birth to their daughter. The police investigation had established early on that Mr Mckeague's mobile phone tracked the same route, and at the same pace, as a bin lorry on the night of his disappearance. But initial inquiries found the rubbish truck was carrying a load of 11kg (1st 10lb), suggesting Mr Mckeague was not on the refuse truck. Then in March it emerged the true weight of the truck contents was more than 100kg (15st 10lb). The error was a "genuine mistake", Suffolk Police said.

Corrie's mother, Nicola Urquhart, said the initial assurance from police that he was not in the bin lorry had been "the one thing that was giving me hope that he was still alive".
Police say they will now search previously incinerated waste and carry out a review of the investigation for any fresh leads in the case.

Heathrow Harry
22nd Jul 2017, 09:09
Last September I posted..............

"Hope he is sleeping it off somewhere but it,s now 4 days......."

He was it seems ............. and he was in more danger than if he'd been shot at by nutters........... just an awful, awful story

langleybaston
22nd Jul 2017, 14:45
Yes, it is tragic.

However,at what stage does an investigation, with its associated costs in staff hours and money, merit closing down?

The taxpayer/ council tax payer has not infinite responsibility.

Perhaps an attempt at crowdfunding continuing search might be a gauge of public opinion on when to call it a day?

Wrathmonk
22nd Jul 2017, 14:58
However,at what stage does an investigation, with its associated costs in staff hours and money, merit closing down?

The taxpayer/ council tax payer has not infinite responsibility.

Historical evidence would suggest not for at least 10 years or until the bill hits £12,000,000.

Source (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34278538)

Heathrow Harry
22nd Jul 2017, 16:49
Jeez!! And people have called me insensitive.................

This whole thread has nothing to do with the "fight against terror" - the police in the Marham case have said from a very early point that whatever happeened had no terrorist connection - they continued to question the guy who claimed he was being abducted but have now put the case on ice.

In the missing man case he really IS missing and now persumed dead. Just because he made a bad call after a few beers is no reason to abuse hiim TBH

Heathrow Harry
26th Mar 2018, 15:43
Sad but inevitable I guess...

Corrie Mckeague: Missing airman search to be stood down - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-43539468)

There are "no realistic lines of inquiry left" in the investigation into the disappearance of RAF airman Corrie Mckeague, police have said.

Mr Mckeague was 23 when he was last seen on 24 September 2016 walking into a bin loading bay in Bury St Edmunds. Suffolk Police said the inquiry, which has cost £2.1m, had been handed to a cold case team but remained open. Det Supt Katie Elliott said: "It is extremely disappointing that we have not been able to find Corrie. We have now reached a point where we are unable to make any further progress, and have gone as far as we realistically can with the information we have," she added.

A police spokesman said the case had always been a missing persons investigation and there is no evidence of "criminal activity or third party involvement".
Suffolk Police said it had been "re-examining the evidence relating to all realistic theories to identify whether there is anything else that could be done to establish what could have happened to Corrie". But the force said an assessment of the evidence "still points to Corrie being transported from the 'horseshoe' area in a bin lorry and ultimately taken to the Milton landfill site".

Mr Mckeague was last seen on CCTV pictures at about 03:25 BST after a night out and his phone was tracked as taking the same route as a bin lorry. As part of the inquiry, police trawled a landfill site in Milton, Cambridgeshire, for the missing airman's remains. However, after the search the force said they were "content" he was not in the landfill areas.
Assistant Chief Constable Simon Megicks said he had "absolute confidence" in the way the investigation was conducted. "The major investigation team inquiry has been reviewed at various points by senior officers within the constabulary and external experts," he said. Det Supt Elliott added: "If any new, credible and proportionate inquiries relating to Corrie's disappearance emerge we will pursue them."

The force said Mr Mckeague's family have been informed of the decision. Mr Mckeague's mother Nicola Urquhart previously said the search of the waste site had given her "immeasurable peace of mind". The investigation into the disappearance has cost £2.1m and Suffolk's police and crime commissioner said the government had agreed to contribute with a special grant (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-43519579), expected to be about £800,000.

ETOPS
27th Mar 2018, 14:43
I think there may be a cover-up here.

Corrie Mckeague: Evidence 'manipulated', mother claims - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-43553706)

I hadn't realised that mum is a serving police officer in Scotland and has picked out an anomaly in the evidence regarding the weights of the refuse bins picked up at the scene.

As his mobile phone signal followed the path of the truck back to the dump I feel it reasonable to surmise he was in that vehicle. If the crew saw his body and panicked they may be hiding the truth of what they did next - even though it wasn't their fault. You and I would have called for an ambulance but others may have felt they were to blame and tried to get rid of evidence.

I hope Mrs Urquhart and family can get to the truth.

lsh
27th Mar 2018, 15:17
"still points to Corrie being transported from the 'horseshoe' area in a bin lorry and ultimately taken to the Milton landfill site"

However, after the search the force said they were "content" he was not in the landfill areas.

How can both these statements be true?
If they are, what happened next......?

lsh

Heathrow Harry
27th Mar 2018, 16:19
I gues they're pretty sure his body is inthe andfill and the cost of digging it all up is prohibitive

On the other hand I see the Met have more money for their annual trip to Portgual which has to be an even more useless use of cash

melmothtw
27th Mar 2018, 20:14
Easy for you to say HH, not your child.

NRU74
27th Mar 2018, 20:25
On the other hand I see the Met have more money for their annual trip to Portgual which has to be an even more useless use of cash

A cynic writes:
Isn't it about time the S Yorks Police set off to Greece to have yet another ‘Ben Needham search jolly ?

langleybaston
27th Mar 2018, 23:01
The concept of "the greater good" seems to be being ignored here. The police [nor indeed any other public body] do not have infinite resources, and even if they had, should these resources be used on single cases, however tragic, however newsworthy?

The media mindset these days is that someone, some public body, "them", must be held to blame for every tragedy.

Sh1t happens. people by and large do their best, people make mistakes, and still sh1t happens.

Time to move on, except for the grieveing famliies. Not their fault.

Heathrow Harry
28th Mar 2018, 08:37
Easy for you to say HH, not your child.
It's the different standards that concern me

The police have neither infinite cash or resources and spending them on a cold case that is years old seems wrong

Tashengurt
28th Mar 2018, 12:01
I think I'd have to confess to different standards here.
I don't think Police forces should squander huge amounts of their slender funding in these ongoing searches but I also don't doubt for a minute that if my child was missing I would let the country bankrupt itself looking for them.
What parent wouldn't clutch at any and every shred of hope? Who wants to be the one to say "No, enough."?

Davef68
28th Mar 2018, 14:56
Easy for you to say HH, not your child.

I still struggle to see why the British taxpayer should foot the bill for an investigation in a foreign locus due to a clear case of child negelct

Simplythebeast
28th Mar 2018, 16:33
I certainly wouldnt authorise any further money until Mrs McCann answered the 48 questions that she refused to answer during the investigation by the Portuguese Police. In my view, any mother would answer any question that could shed light on what occurred, unless they had something to hide.

These are the questions she was asked:
1- On May 3 2007, around 22:00, when you entered the apartment, what did you see? What did you do? Where did you look? What did you touch?
2- Did you search inside the master bedroom wardrobe? (she replied that she wouldn’t answer)
3- (shown 2 photographs of her bedroom wardrobe) Can you describe its contents?
4- Why had the curtain behind the sofa in front of the side window (whose photo was shown to her) been tampered with? Did somebody go behind that sofa?
5- How long did your search of the apartment take after you detected your daughter Madeleine’s disappearance?
6- Why did you say from the start that Madeleine had been abducted?
7- Assuming Madeleine had been abducted, why did you leave the twins home alone to go to the ‘Tapas’ and raise the alarm? Because the supposed abductor could still be in the apartment.
8- Why didn’t you ask the twins, at that moment, what had happened to their sister or why didn’t you ask them later on?
9- When you raised the alarm at the ‘Tapas’ what exactly did you say and what were your exact words?
10- What happened after you raised the alarm in the ‘Tapas’?
11- Why did you go and warn your friends instead of shouting from the verandah?
12- Who contacted the authorities?
13- Who took place in the searches?
14- Did anyone outside of the group learn of Madeleine’s disappearance in those following minutes?
15- Did any neighbour offer you help after the disappearance?
16- What does “we let her down” mean?
17- Did Jane tell you that night that she’d seen a man with a child?
18- How were the authorities contacted and which police force was alerted?
19- During the searches, with the police already there, where did you search for Maddie, how and in what way?
20- Why did the twins not wake up during that search or when they were taken upstairs?
21- Who did you phone after the occurrence?
22- Did you call Sky News?
23- Did you know the danger of calling the media, because it could influence the abductor?
24- Did you ask for a priest?
25- By what means did you divulge Madeleine’s features, by photographs or by any other means?
26- Is it true that during the searches you remained seated on Maddie’s bed without moving?
27- What was your behaviour that night?
28- Did you manage to sleep?
29- Before travelling to Portugal did you make any comment about a foreboding or a bad feeling?
30- What was Madeleine’s behaviour like?
31- Did Maddie suffer from any illness or take any medication?
32- What was Madeleine’s relationship like with her brother and sister?
33- What was Madeleine’s relationship like with her brother and sister, friends and school mates?
34- As for your professional life, in how many and which hospitals have you worked?
35- What is your medical specialty?
36- Have you ever done shift work in any emergency services or other services?
37- Did you work every day?
38- At a certain point you stopped working, why?
39- Are the twins difficult to get to sleep? Are they restless and does that cause you uneasiness?
40- Is it true that sometimes you despaired with your children’s behaviour and that left you feeling very uneasy?
41- Is it true that in England you even considered handing over Madeleine’s custody to a relative?
42- In England, did you medicate your children? What type of medication?
43- In the case files you were forensic testing films, where you can see them marking due to detection of the scent of human corpse and blood traces, also human, and only human, as well as all the comments of the technician in charge of them. After watching and after the marking of the scent of corpse in your bedroom beside the wardrobe and behind the sofa, pushed up against the sofa wall, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?
44- When the sniffer dog also marked human blood behind the sofa, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?
45- When the sniffer dog marked the scent of corpse coming from the vehicle you hired a month after the disappearance, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?
46- When human blood was marked in the boot of the vehicle, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?
47- When confronted with the results of Maddie’s DNA, whose analysis was carried out in a British laboratory, collected from behind the sofa and the boot of the vehicle, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?
48- Did you have any responsibility or intervention in your daughter’s disappearance?
A Question She Did Answer
- Are you aware that in not answering the questions you are jeopardizing the investigation, which seeks to discover what happened to your daughter?
- “Yes, if that’s what the investigation thinks.”

AR1
28th Mar 2018, 23:20
A few years back, AR1 (Mrs) was in court at the committal of a suspect Mr A, who was charged that on a certain date he murdered Mr X.

The evidence laid before the court was Mr A was seen on CCTV entering a street prior to where Mr X being found. That an object with Mr A's DNA on it was found in the vicinity of Mr X's body.

Unfortunately, the CCTV didn't show either of them leaving. Mr X was found unconscious in the early hours and died shortly afterwards.

In the pre court discussion the CPS and Police were adamant that they had the chap involved.

Eventually, after being remanded in custody and facing a trial by jury, Mr A was acquitted of the Manslaughter (the eventual charge) of Mr X.

Despite the confidence at the time of the investigation that they had their man, following a case review, some years later Mr Xs friend was charged and convicted for Manslaughter. A Man who had been interviewed during the initial case, as he was drinking with the victim that evening.

Blinded by tech and DNA the police were utterly focused on nailing Mr A. They were wrong, and a young man was perilously close to being locked up for a long time. This could be any of us making a turn in front of a camera, and dropping a bit of a takeaway. We all require the right to a proper and full investigation to protect us from injustice, and to ensure when an offence does arrive in court its done as a result of investigating with an open mind.

Equally, we need to park our own emotionally based judgments, or at least sometimes keep them to ourselves. - Out.