Turkey coup?

[Tashengurt]

News channels reporting a possible coup ongoing in Turkey.
This could get unpleasant quickly.

[Rosevidney1]

We live in increasingly 'interesting' times, I'm afraid. :-(

[Wander00]

Which lot, left, right or Kurds?

[denachtenmai]

looks like the army:ooh:

[Bo Nalls]

Turkish Air Force conducting Shows of Presence and other breaking news Turkey coup: military attempt to seize power from Erdogan as low flying jets and gunfire heard in Ankara and bridges across Bosphorus in Istanbul closed (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/turkey-low-flying-jets-and-gunfire-heard-in-ankara1/)

[TEEEJ]

Footage of low F-16s.

W2cRWA18Cco&feature=related

zRBSMyjb4tE&feature=related

[Willard Whyte]

Smells of Putin.

[The Sultan]

Eragon now then move against ISIS. Win-Win.

The Sultan

[JAVELINBOY]

This will delay their entry to the EU, good job we are leaving

[sitigeltfel]

At the end of March all US military dependants in Turkey were told to leave the country.

Hundreds of military dependents ordered to leave Turkey - Europe - Stripes (http://www.stripes.com/news/europe/hundreds-of-military-dependents-ordered-to-leave-turkey-1.401622)

Did somebody get a tip-off?

[Rigga]

Yes, I wonder how Angela will get her EU Subs from them now?

[Above The Clouds]

This will delay their entry to the EU, good job we are leaving

Angela Merkels idea of a rosy Europe is not looking too good right now, I hope she is having a real soul searching time tonight.

[Wander00]

Many instances since Ataturk of the army stepping in when things get out of hand. The army has always tried to maintain the secularisation of the Turkish state. In this case Erdogan has gone too far towards an Islamic state, oppression of the press, stamping out of dissent. Hope no lives are lost

[unmanned_droid]

I find it difficult to get to grips with the fact that I (along with many others...) were watching Solo Turk a week ago at FFD. On reflection, I don't know why really, they could not have known this was going to kick-off. As I understand it, the military is something of a democratic rudder in Turkey, and from time to time is used to bring things back on course. Hopefully this will end well, and quickly.

Some of the 'Turkey is great' messages in the commentary seem to have a different edge to them now!

[Treble one]

Looks like F-16s on the videos? Show of force?

[unmanned_droid]

Yep, and there's a video out there of a helicopter (I believe an attack helicopter firing main gun, given the noise and accuracy) firing on a building

[RAFEngO74to09]

Helicopter supporting the coup shot down by F-16 - reported on CNN in USA.

[RAFEngO74to09]

MBTs and AFVs on the streets - martial law declared.

Coup military in control of main TV station - seen in pictures from station.

Prime Minister safe - used mobile phone to get message to loyal civilians to get on the streets.

Civilians demonstrating against the coup shot by (presumably) coup participants - unfolded live on TV.

US CNN Live coverage has multiple cameras.

US President + Secretary of State have stated support for the elected government.

[RAFEngO74to09]

Amazing scenes.

In one part of Ankara you see thousands of civilians on the streets with flags congratulating the military who appear to be in support of the government.

Elsewhere, you see many thousands of civilians, massed on a 6-lane highway, blocking the path of coup sympathetic tanks with soldiers firing in the air.

17 police reported killed by helicopter gunship (according to government sources) [this was prior to the reported helicopter shootdown].

[fallmonk]

Am sure it will be fine ,
Boris to the rescue! 😜

[RAFEngO74to09]

You couldn't make this up !

Live on the phone from the CNN Editor in Chief in Istanbul:

Coup soldiers land in a helicopter in the parking lot of the CNN building.

The soldiers take over the building and order the anchor of the air at gunpoint.

The building gets surrounded by numerous pro-government supporters.

The pro-government police arrive and arrest the coup soldiers.

The police are now protecting the coup soldiers in the building from the demonstrators outside.

Elsewhere live coverage of coup soldiers being frog-marched off 2:1 by armed "police" in irregular clothes.

[Tashengurt]

Interesting footage of soldiers being confronted by a crowd. One fires into the air but clearly has no will to go further as the crowd end up passing him.
Wouldn't want to be in his shoes.

[NutLoose]

A senior US military source tells NBC News that Erdogan, refused landing rights in Istanbul, is reported to be seeking asylum in Germany. The report could not immediately be independently confirmed.

1,000,001........

[RAFEngO74to09]

Helicopter firing on civilians:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPJ47KpPKkM

[NutLoose]

In the UK, Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson said he was “very concerned” about the events.

Not exaclty having a quiet first couple of days in the job.

Reports saying things improving

A lawyer for the Turkish government says "there are indications of direct involvement" in the coup attempt of a cleric who is living in exile in Pennsylvania.

Robert Amsterdam said in a statement Friday evening that he and his firm "have attempted repeatedly to warn the U.S. government of the threat posed" by Fethullah Gulen and his movement.

He says that according to Turkish intelligence sources, "there are signs that Gulen is working closely with certain members of military leadership against the elected civilian government."

The president of a group that promotes Gulen's ideas denied the charges.

Y. Alp Aslandogan of the New York-based Alliance for Shared Values tells The Associated Press "we categorically deny such accusations and find them to be highly irresponsible."

Earlier in the evening, the alliance said, "we condemn any military intervention in (the) domestic politics of Turkey."


https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/the-latest-turkey-pm-things-are-getting-better/ar-BBunCla?ocid=spartanntp

[RAFEngO74to09]

Seems to be pretty much over now - poorly executed at a relatively low level (colonel level is the guess at present from US TV armchair experts). US former military officers calling Turkish mates at one-star level and above being told they have no idea WTF is going on or who started it.

When it came to it, and a tank seen on TV was surrounded by literally thousands of civilians, the co-ax gun was fired above their heads without effect rather than at them and then the tank crew accepted they weren't going anywhere.

There have been casualties, initially civilians on the Bosphorus Bridge as televised, and various reports of loud explosions either tank main armament or helicopter borne munitions near the Parliament building.

[RAFEngO74to09]

Turkish PM has ordered that any outstanding aircraft hijacked by coup forces are to be shot down. Aircraft scrambled from Eskisehir.

[RAFEngO74to09]

Prosecutor's Office has stated that at least 42 killed - including the 17 police mentioned earlier exchanging fire with the helicopter.

[t43562]

Well, I got to hear some very low jet passes last night! Nothing else fortunately.

[RAFEngO74to09]

F-16s attacking coup manned tanks near Presidential Palace in Ankara.

Around 50 coup personnel abandoned their tanks on the Bosphorus Bridge, layed down their small arms and surrendered to police. The few police guarding the tanks and weapons were unable to stop some of the civilians making off with small arms according to eye witnesses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS3iaE3xUSY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEFr6t5etUk

[TBM-Legend]

Good for promotion in the Turkish Armed Forces now that a cadre of senior/middle level officers etc have "retired"....

[Lantern10]

Graphic scenes.
Wild mob.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNY7cWLx-l4

[peter we]

This will delay their entry to the EU, good job we are leaving

Turkey has been blocked from EU entry for 40 years, any EU state can and has veto entry. Explain how Turkey is EVER going to join the EU, its impossible.

[t43562]

Turkey has been blocked from EU entry for 40 years, any EU state can and has veto entry. Explain how Turkey is EVER going to join the EU, its impossible.
I don't feel safe to use names etc but I don't imagine that those in power at the moment want to be part of the EU at all - this seems to me to be the most significant barrier. They talk about it a bit but there's no enthusiasm for any of the reforms that are needed - especially the ones concerning the press etc.

[charliegolf]

Helicopter +8 reported landed in Greece asking for asylum. Ironic eh?

[NutLoose]

Probably the first genuine cases of asylum seekers Greece has had in a while.

[Wander00]

Sadly I suspect some Turkish officers will find themselves literally with their backs to the wall. Whether the attempt will be enough to divert Erdogan from his present move towards an Islamic state I doubt.

[wub]

BBC reporting that Incirlik Airbase has been blockaded and the power turned off.

[glad rag]

Turkey has been blocked from EU entry for 40 years, any EU state can and has veto entry. Explain how Turkey is EVER going to join the EU, its impossible.
As of 2013/2014 it was 982,000,000 euros and rising.

[Simplythebeast]

Incirlik. I wouldnt be surprised if there are Nuclear weapons stored there.

[glad rag]

Incirlik. I wouldnt be surprised if there are Nuclear weapons stored there.
50-90 B61 if you believe what you read.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B61_nuclear_bomb

[NutLoose]

Surrendered then decapitated, I bet the next time there won't be any surrendering :(

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/turkey-coup-pictures-shared-on-twitter-show-rebel-soldier-beheaded-by-government-supporters/ar-BBuopYT?li=AA59G2&ocid=spartandhp

[Wander00]

And they want to join the EU....................

[glad rag]

"ISTANBUL ―Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan landed at Istanbul’s Ataturk airport Saturday morning and declared the attempted coup against his government to be a failure, but also a “gift from God.”


Thank GOD [see what I did there] for Brextit.

[Lonewolf_50]

Glad I was reading this thread. Learned a few things that disturb (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/apr/21/obama-accused-nuclear-guided-weapons-plan) me.
Under the plan, nearly 200 B61 gravity bombs stockpiled in Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, Italy and Turkey would be given new tail fins that would turn them into guided weapons that could be delivered by stealth F35 fighter-bombers.

That we still have tactical nukes in Europe, and in Turkey, bugs me. That their number and location are apparently known and bandied about in the open press angers me.
What the heck happened to OPSEC?

As to Incirlik, this dubious "connection" between an exile and the NATO base is a naked bit of political skullduggery. Smells a bit of the Iran Embassy line in 1979.

No further comment, very concerned.

[t43562]

And they want to join the EU....................

I don't think AK party supporters really want to. It's the people who look west and are against them that think it would help them to remain western and secular. Generalisations are of course all wrong but I am only trying to suggest one of the issues that's going on: Turkey is basically split between Ataturk fans who believe in secularism and the upraised poor who are religious and don't give a fig about the west or the EU and are delighted to thumb their noses at the educated middle-class EU-likers. Shades of....well...you know.

[NutLoose]

Turkey's uprising leaders land a helicopter in Greece and seek asylum | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3693369/Fleeing-coup-Uprising-leaders-land-helicopter-Greece-seek-asylum-Turkish-leaders-demand-treacherous-officers-extradited.html?ITO=1490)


Greece claimed it would have to consider international laws before returning them, although it promised to send the helicopter back.

However, Mevlut Cavusoglu has said that Greece has now promised to return the 'treacherous soldiers' to be punished in Turkey.

The news comes after Turkish Prime Minister Binali Yildrim said the nation would consider bringing back the death penalty to deal with them, after it was abolished in 2004


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3693369/Fleeing-coup-Uprising-leaders-land-helicopter-Greece-seek-asylum-Turkish-leaders-demand-treacherous-officers-extradited.html#ixzz4EbD2V8Dq
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


So send them back to get killed.. :(

The beheaded guy appears in those shots to be still alive

[West Coast]

That's an occupational hazard associated with staging a coup. They surely had to consider the repercussions of a failed attempt. If not, it serves as a cautionary tale for the next group mulling an uprising.

[NutLoose]

Not exactly what you expect from a fellow NATO country though, I would imagine a lot were simple Conscripts lead like lambs to the slaughter, the majority had already shown by their actions their reluctance to attack their countrymen and that their heart wasn't in it by handing over their weapons. It is just disgusting that they were not protected by the police who they surrendered their arms too.

[RAFEngO74to09]

Lonewolf,

The sites at which these weapons are held has been common public knowledge in Europe (to locals living near the air bases) ever since they were deployed. In the days before Hardened Aircraft Shelters (HASs) were built - before mid-1970s - all those NATO countries allocated US controlled tactical nukes mounted QRA (N) from open ended dutch barns - illuminated at night - with the weapons clearly visible on those aircraft types that carried them externally.

From 1995 they have all been held within Weapon Storage & Security System (WS3) vaults which retract into the floor of individual HASs. Full scale trials were done by the USAF bombing a HAS which destroyed the aircraft inside yet, when raised, the WS3 and dummy weapons were not in any way harmed.

It is in the public domain - in an article published in 2015 by the Federation of American Scientists - that significant upgrades are being carried out to security at Incirlik and Aviano.

Five NATO countries - Belgium, Germany, Italy, Netherlands and Turkey - still participate in the NATO Nuclear Sharing Program.

WS3:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/B61_in_Weapons_Storage_and_Security_System.jpg

[tartare]

I read a story this morning claiming"dogfights" had broken out between jets from opposing factions during the coup??!!
I assume that is just hysterical and inaccurate reporting?
Or is there some basis to this?

[Lonewolf_50]

Is the power back on ar Incirlik?

[Self Loading Freight]

Normal ops have resumed.

[ORAC]

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ay-e-kad-o-lu/coup-d-tat-attempt-turkey-s-reichstag-fire#.V4qM8Hk6xMk.twitter

..."Joining the echo of the calls to prayers were the loud noises of military jets flying over Istanbul skies. The combination of these sounds made me think that yes, these were the sounds of the funeral of free speech, critical thinking, and any other remnants of liberal democratic process in Turkey. I realized in fear and agony that whether the coup was successful or not, one thing was certain: there would no longer be room in Turkey for people who can listen, read, analyze, and think critically. With the siren-like echoes of calls to prayer and military jets, Turkey was becoming a land only for true believers.

This did not happen suddenly. With the crackdown on media, academic freedoms, random arrests, and the increasing violence in the southeast provinces, citizens in Turkey have been facing major limitations on their basic freedoms for the past few years. The attempted coup d'état of July 15 is like the last nail in the coffin. Lying dead in the coffin was the courage to use one’s own understanding (as in Sapere Aude) that relentlessly resisted the rising tide of categorical thinking typical of true believers."........

[NutLoose]

Well this makes interesting reading

At height of Turkish coup bid, rebel jets had Erdogan's plane in their sights | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-security-plot-insight-idUSKCN0ZX0Q9)

At the height of the attempt to overthrow Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan, the rebel pilots of two F-16 fighter jets had Erdogan's plane in their sights. And yet he was able to fly on.
The Turkish leader was returning to Istanbul from a holiday near the coastal resort of Marmaris after a faction in the military launched the coup attempt on Friday night, sealing off a bridge across the Bosphorus, trying to capture Istanbul's main airport and sending tanks to parliament in Ankara.
"At least two F-16s harassed Erdogan's plane while it was in the air and en route to Istanbul. They locked their radars on his plane and on two other F-16s protecting him," a former military officer with knowledge of the events told Reuters.
"Why they didn't fire is a mystery," he said.

Fighter jets taking off from another air base at Eskisehir, west of Ankara, were scrambled to bomb Akinci and try to stop the rebels. However, the rogue aircraft were able to keep flying through the night by refueling mid-air after a tanker plane was commandeered, the first senior official said.
The tanker aircraft was taken from the Incirlik air base in southern Turkey, which is used by the U.S.-led coalition to bomb Islamic State in Syria and Iraq. The commander of Incirlik was detained on Sunday for complicity, the official said.

[Lonewolf_50]

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ay-e-kad-o-lu/coup-d-tat-attempt-turkey-s-reichstag-fire#.V4qM8Hk6xMk.twitter

..."Joining the echo of the calls to prayers were the loud noises of military jets flying over Istanbul skies. The combination of these sounds made me think that yes, these were the sounds of the funeral of free speech, critical thinking, and any other remnants of liberal democratic process in Turkey. I realized in fear and agony that whether the coup was successful or not, one thing was certain: there would no longer be room in Turkey for people who can listen, read, analyze, and think critically. With the siren-like echoes of calls to prayer and military jets, Turkey was becoming a land only for true believers.

This did not happen suddenly. With the crackdown on media, academic freedoms, random arrests, and the increasing violence in the southeast provinces, citizens in Turkey have been facing major limitations on their basic freedoms for the past few years. The attempted coup d'état of July 15 is like the last nail in the coffin. Lying dead in the coffin was the courage to use one’s own understanding (as in Sapere Aude) that relentlessly resisted the rising tide of categorical thinking typical of true believers."........
There was something like a coup in 1997 (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/tu-military-coup-1997.htm)after Erbakan got elected. It was during this time that my boss, a one star Turk, (NATO job) explained to me how in the Turkish constitution, the military is charged with ensuring that Turkey remains a secular and modern nation. (It's more complicated than that, but that's the gist of it). For three days we saw little to nothing of our Turkish colleagues due to the understandable "national issues" and their sincere concerns about "what happens next." They all eventually came back to work, and things moved along pretty well.


The Islamism of the National Outlook Movement (Milli GörüSHareketi), led by Necmettin Erbakan, embraced an anti-Western/European stanceand championed an orthodox conception of Islam from the 1970s to the 1990s. Although the prominent founders of the AKP emerged from this pro-Islamic movement, they learned the "limitation of Islamic politics" from the military's intervention during the February 28 postmodern coup. Subsequently, they departed from the National Outlook Movement, referring to themselves as the "innovators" and by embracing a liberal conception of Islam instead. The Virtue party looks a lot like a repackaged form of National Outlook: and I'd offer that the latest Islamist party (Erdogan's compatriots) aren't "liberal" in their conception of Islam, nor in its role in the state. Erdogan's recent palace: hmm, something like Saddam's palaces, or is that as much office building as residence?

[ShotOne]

Is it just me or did Mr Kerry get the tone wrong with his lecture to Turkey on the importance of democratic institutions. I can imagine what's perceived as hectoring going down badly in Ankara right now and possibly having the reverse of the intended effect.

[Lonewolf_50]

Is it just me or did Mr Kerry get the tone wrong with his lecture to Turkey on the importance of democratic institutions. I can imagine what's perceived as hectoring going down badly in Ankara right now and possibly having the reverse of the intended effect. I doubt they pay much attention to anything he says.

[ORAC]

Turkish navy ships still missing since attempted coup – as it remains unclear which side admirals are on (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/turkey-coup-attempt-turkish-navy-ships-admirals-military-president-erdogan-a7144141.html)

[Rwy in Sight]

For those among you who have worked with the Turkish Armed Forces what impact would have on moral of the Turkish Forces and how the remaining staff would react/ what they would do to earn back their self-respect?

[NutLoose]

These make you wonder, shades of Romania


Turkey's President Erdogan's 'shopaholic' wife laid bare as 2m citizens earn £3 a day | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3696037/She-silk-wallpaper-bathroom-2-000-roll-Super-spending-habits-Turkey-tyrant-s-shopaholic-wife-laid-bare-two-million-coup-hit-country-earn-3-day.html)

Erdogan's palace: The £500 million mansion Turkey's president calls home | Metro News (http://metro.co.uk/2016/07/19/inside-erdogans-palace-the-500-million-mansion-turkeys-president-calls-home-6015161/)

I do wonder how well these will be going down with the population, 2 million of which earn £3 a day. Not exactly a smart move to be rubbing their noses in it.

[t43562]

I do wonder how well these will be going down with the population, 2 million of which earn £3 a day. Not exactly a smart move to be rubbing their noses in it. They don't care. They see Mr _ as "their guy" who made it from humble beginnings and who is helping them. The alternatives to him are the "snooty middle class" who Mr _'s suporters think will never open a path to the good life for them.

They will say "it all belongs to the state in the end" and crap like that although they know the end aim is "l'etat, c'est moi".

They will say "this is all foreign lies" and so on and so on.

[glad rag]

Glad I was reading this thread. Learned a few things that disturb (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/apr/21/obama-accused-nuclear-guided-weapons-plan) me.

That we still have tactical nukes in Europe, and in Turkey, bugs me. That their number and location are apparently known and bandied about in the open press angers me.
What the heck happened to OPSEC?

As to Incirlik, this dubious "connection" between an exile and the NATO base is a naked bit of political skullduggery. Smells a bit of the Iran Embassy line in 1979.

No further comment, very concerned.
Nuke armed stealth fighters, no no escallation there at all.....

[Lonewolf_50]

Nuke armed stealth fighters, no no escallation there at all..... What are you talking about?

[glad rag]

The BIGGER picture Lw.

Whilst I agree that one thing Mr P respects is a BIG stick [and the proven determination to use it if required] Escalating the ongoing situation in the region [no not Syria] by deploying stealth aircraft alongside bespoke modified nukes is hardly going to act an antacid for Russia is it?

[ORAC]

Poor buggers, sacrificed on the altar of restoring relations with Vladimir Putin...

Turkish pilots who downed Russian jet arrested over coup plot ? POLITICO (http://www.politico.eu/article/turkish-pilots-who-downed-russian-jet-arrested-over-coup-plot-erdogan/)

[Lonewolf_50]

The BIGGER picture Lw. Whilst I agree that one thing Mr P respects is a BIG stick [and the proven determination to use it if required] Escalating the ongoing situation in the region [no not Syria] by deploying stealth aircraft alongside bespoke modified nukes is hardly going to act an antacid for Russia is it? The current strike fighters in the inventory are all nuke capable. None of them are stealth, the F-117 is retired.
All that the new aircraft (F-35) program is doing is making sure it is able to do what current strike fighters can do. No loss of capability. You act as though it is current capability with that post.
As you damned well know from our years-long F-35 thread, F-35 is not fully IOC (beyond modest B for the Marines in the Far East) nor currently deployed to Incirlik.

Mountain out of molehill, GR. The core competency and raison d' etre of the F-35 is TACAIR. That it is to eventually become nuclear capable (tactical) is one of many capabilities, when they finally get systems integration sorted.

Same story with the Ticonderoga cruisers. Nuclear capable, but their core competency was Surface to Air and Surface to Surface warfare, with a later mod of TLAM (conventional) for additional strike/Ship to shore as a replacement for the old long gun ship to shore capability. Tech changes in a continuum.
We are drifting from topic, so that is all.

[Lonewolf_50]

Poor buggers, sacrificed on the altar of restoring relations with Vladimir Putin...

Turkish pilots who downed Russian jet arrested over coup plot ? POLITICO (http://www.politico.eu/article/turkish-pilots-who-downed-russian-jet-arrested-over-coup-plot-erdogan/) Why do you presume that the two events are related? I am sure you can appreciate that folks who participate in failed coups frequently lose their heads or get stuffed into jail/exile as a matter of routine.

[ORAC]

L50, seems too easy a solution to Erdogan's problems - especially when the major of Ankara knew all about it the morning straight after the coup - and that he was a member of Gulen's "parallel state". Yeah, right. Also note that the coup F-16s flew out of Akinc northwest of Ankara - a strange airbase for the F-16s which were operating on the Syrian border only 6 months before.

Cynical, moi?

https://theaviationist.com/2016/07/18/exclusive-all-the-details-about-the-aerial-battle-over-turkey-during-the-military-coup/

https://www.rt.com/news/352050-turkish-pilots-arrested-su24/

...."The day after the coup attempt, the mayor of Ankara, Melih Gokcek, announced that the pilot who had shot down the Russian plane had taken part in the coup, and was a member of a secret “parallel state” organization allegedly headed by cleric Fethullah Gulen, who lives in self-exile in the US.

“It is a ‘parallel state’ that has ruined our relationship with Russia. It was an incident that involved one of the pilots of this structure, 100 percent. He was one of the participants in the coup,” the mayor told CNN Turk. Melih Gokcek stressed that “our relations with Russia have been spoiled by these villains.”.......

[A_Van]

I am left with a gut feeling that "a large part of iceberg is not seen below the waterline".


Consider strange things like:
a) List of thousands involved in the coup appeared over night, and most of them were immediately arrested.


b) Pres. Erdogan "narrow escaped" (some 20-30 min) an attack on him while he and his family were on a resort.


c) Erdogan's plane was allowed to fly safely though was allegedly escorted by fighter jets sent by rebel commanders.


d) Head of general staff was taken but then surprisingly easily released (why do so if he might be a trump card in their hands?)


e) Behaviour of puschists was strange in many aspects, e.g. they did not attempt to take or destroy the residences of president and prime minister (as they used to do during the previous coups) , and bombed the parliament instead (though nobody of c.a. 100 members staying these was hurt). Also the putschists did not block key airports (though allegedly AF were the "bad guys"), main roads and communication centres across the country.


f) The putschists had no speaker, even more, the coup had "no faces". AF commander who was named later as a key person... who knows what he was "offered"while staying in the hands of "butchers".


I am far from thinking it was a 100% show orchestrated by the current establishment, but the participation of the latter is quite likely. E.g., why not assume that the plotters and their plans were well-known and that somebody in their leadership (in reality loyal to the regime) told them "hey, guys, it's the right moment, let's start". Some of them started (maybe not all), but the other side was waiting for that, and now has free hands in doing whatever they like, especially as "people in the street" support them.


P.S. IMHO, "Russian issue" had the least priority in all that. Erdogan and Putin resumed talking before the coup was attempted. Just, "BTW No. 1000, why not to arrest those two pilots as well".

[On_The_Top_Bunk]

With the numbers getting "purged" Erdogan will be difficult to shift. Turkey is heading for a dictatorship if not already there in some form.

Turkey coup attempt: Crackdown toll passes 50,000 - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36842073)

His hard-line Islamic reforms could really damage Turkey's future and it's position within NATO and the West in general.

[Not_a_boffin]

This is only going to go one way - and it ain't going to be pretty.

1. Round up all the "intellectuals" - aka anyone who may harbour secularist tendencies and make it very clear to them that their livelihoods (at least) depend on being good little muslims/AKP members. Stand by for gradual exodus of said people to Western / Southern Europe.

2. Watch as tourism receipts in Turkey plummet. Holidaying in dictatorships only appealing to certain type of tourist. Result - lots of unemployed, angry, shouty Turkish people (the less angry shouty ones having quietly left, see 1 above).

3. Watch as immigration weapon against EU deployed - unless you bung us some cash and/or be nicer to that nice Mr Putin (he's our friend really).

4. EU caught between rock and hard place. Syria not getting any better any time soon. Kurdish issue festering. EU anti-immigration issue boiling over.

Wouldn't hold out much hope of Incirlik being an operational NATO base in 5 yrs.

[ORAC]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/20/erdogan-bans-academics-from-travel-holds-first-post-coup-security-meeting-ankara-turkey

"Turkey’s president, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, has declared a three-month state of emergency in the country in the aftermath of the coup attempt last Friday. The decision, announced in a televised press conference on Wednesday night, came after marathon meetings of the country’s national security council and the cabinet in Ankara.

Article 121 of the Turkish constitution, which regulates the state of emergency, requires parliament to give its consent to the decision and sets a maximum period of six months for it. It allows the cabinet under the chairmanship of the president to issue decrees that have the force of law on matters relating to the state of emergency."............

[Lonewolf_50]

ORAC: this will end well, eh? :p

[fitliker]

News.Az - Turkey to open Incirlik airbase for Russian aircraft (http://news.az/articles/turkey/109852)

Incirlik Air Base is one of the NATO’s military bases in Turkey. Along with Turkey, the U.S, UK and Germany have deployed their military aircraft there

They are going to party like it is 1870 .What could possibly go wrong ?
The same players at the last big party in that area in 1870 all armed to the teeth in a small area .
What could go wrong ?

[Rwy in Sight]

fitliker

Incirlik Air Base is one of the NATO’s military bases in Turkey

Who decides on who how a NATO base is used? I remember, while serving in one, we were fairly restrained on some minor changes we wanted to make on the base. So I guess granting access to a third party is not so straight forward - unless the US don't mind having the Russians across the runway.

[On_The_Top_Bunk]

Erdogan has a free reign now to introduce anything he likes for the next 3 months!

Turkey coup attempt: State of emergency announced - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36852080)

[NITRO104]

Well, in Turkey it's business as usual...at least for the past 700 years.
A few women in the office can't change the reality.
Let's just hope that Turkey justifies its NATO membership before it melts down back into the Ottoman Empire.

[NutLoose]

The H-Bombs in Turkey - The New Yorker (http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-h-bombs-in-turkey)

[TEEEJ]

Fitliker posted,

News.Az - Turkey to open Incirlik airbase for Russian aircraft (http://news.az/articles/turkey/109852)

Turkey said on Monday it wanted to cooperate with Moscow in combating Islamic State in Syria but denied having suggested it might allow Russia to use its Incirlik Air Base, near the Syrian frontier.

....

In an interview with Turkish state television on Sunday, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu had appeared to suggest Ankara could open up Incirlik to Russia, a move that could raise concern among Turkey's NATO partners already using the base, including the United States.

But Cavusoglu, in comments broadcast live on television on Monday, denied such an interpretation of his words.

"We said that we could cooperate with Russia in the period ahead in the fight against Daesh (Islamic State)...I did not make any comment referring to Russian planes coming to the Incirlik Air Base."

Turkey proposes cooperation with Russia in fighting Islamic State | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-turkey-russia-idUSKCN0ZK0QH)

[Chronus]

According to Turkish news the coup was plotted by those at AFB Akinc. Most of which are fighter jocks, who are now languishing behind bars. As it is somewhat difficult to get an employment bureau to immediately supply some replacements, the Turkish Air Force must have more than a few machines with empty cockpits. I suppose the Russians are now safe to take a short cut and drop their whizz bangs with impunity.

[fitliker]

Conflicting reports from various sources ,so far about as many reports saying they offered Incirlik base to the Russians as reports denying they made that offer.
Someone is trying to run with the Fox and the Hounds, and that usually ends badly. Confused by the conflicting reports is not that hard,but can you imagine how difficult it could be to sort out what happens if a bunker busting weapons cooks off and a bunker starts popping off a few big H's ?
This will make the Turkish missile crisis of 1962 look like a church picnic if someone manages to get the party started.


Keep your iodide pills handy.

[uffington sb]

Turkish missile crisis of 1963???

[Lonewolf_50]

This will make the Turkish missile crisis of 1963 look like a church picnic if someone manages to get the party started. Are you referring to the Cuban Missile Crisis, 1962, (http://www.history.com/topics/cold-war/cuban-missile-crisis) or something else?

[TEEEJ]

Chronus wrote,

I suppose the Russians are now safe to take a short cut and drop their whizz bangs with impunity.

Not a chance in hell that Russia will start violating NATO airspace in this fashion. Why on earth would they even consider such a move? They have everything to lose with the Turks mucking around with the Russian Navy Syrian Express. The Russians desperately need the Syrian Express to continue to flow unhampered.

https://turkishnavy.net/2016/04/30/syrian-express-deployments-taking-toll-on-russian-ships/

[fitliker]

Whether you call it the Turkish or Cuban missile crisis in 1962 depends on whether you prefer Chess or Checkers.
The first move in the missile crisis of 1962 was made by someone who was on long term heavy doses of painkillers placing missile's in Turkey. Then someone else sailed some missiles right down the middle of the Atlantic in full view. The Crisis ended when the missiles were removed from Turkey. Then the missiles were removed from Cuba.
That is the simple chronology of events ,the rhetoric is much different depending on whether you prefer Pepsi ,Coke ,or Earl Grey Tea while playing checkers or chess.

[Whenurhappy]

I've refrained from commenting up until now, but so much detritus has been written about the coup.

There are no halcyon days of secularist military rule in Turkey. The last 'proper' military intervention (previously permitted by the Constitution, written by the Army after the 1960 coup) saw upwards of 500,000 people being detained, thousands tortured and hundreds dying in detention.

Over the last 10 years (partly driven by EU accession criteria) Erdoğan (pronounced Erdo-whan and please, please not erdo - gan) has removed some of the constitutional privileges of the Turkish General Staff. They are still not fully under democratic control (ie they answer, or at least did answer to the President and not the Minister of Defence). Over the last month or two, Erdoğan had set the conditions for a mutiny and the plans were rumbled by the MiT late last week, causing the plotters to bring their half-hearted plans forward.

The TGS is a sclerotic organisation; there is non concept of jointery or Mission Command. The forces are purely configured for territorial defence, although both the Navy and the Army have ambitious - overly ambitious - power projection programmes. There's no effective NCO cadre in the Army, which is comprised of 75% conscript Anatolian peasants (anyone with a bit of money or University education can get out of conscription with ease).

The coup attempt was illegal and a bloody challenge to a democratically elected government (Erdoğan received 49.5% of the vote in a reasonably free and fair election late last year). His voter base have done very well under him; personal incomes have trebled in the last 15 years. We in the West may not like him (and probably favour a secular military-style government) but he is popular and delivers the goods for business and the people.

Incirlik's Turkish Base Cdr was detained last week and has been replaced by an Army Brigadier (and Deputy Hd of Intelligence in the TGS). Operations are continuing but I understand that real life support is limited at the moment. As for the SSA, let's not discuss that. It will never (repeat) never fall out of US control.

The West will need to suck up to Erdoğan - as we need him as a bulwark against irregular migration, ISIS terrorism, you name it. Historically, these events are part of a regular pattern in Turkey over the last 200 years as it struggles between being Occidental or Oriental.

The Western 'white' Turks naturally aspire to a European lifestyle. They are educated, urbane and well-travelled. The Eastern Anatolians (locally referred to as 'Black Turks') have never been served well by the elite of the last 200 years. Erdoğan has given them hope (and cynically invested in them - the dustiest town now has a gleaming hastane (hospital), several new mosques and a new school). There's been extensive infrastructure investment; a month ago during a trip back to Turkey I travelled on the new HST from Istanbul to Ankara. Absolutely brilliant and constructed in record time. The metro in Istanbul is also amazing - modern, clean, efficient and cheap!

As for Erdoğan amd his love-up to Putin - this is out of mutual economic necessity. Turkey and Russia have been to war at least 10 times and it has always ended bad for Turkey (it's all been about control of the Turkish Straits); I just hope that the anti-Academic Erdoğan remembers lessons from history...

[Rwy in Sight]

Whenurhappy

The Western 'white' Turks naturally aspire to a European lifestyle. They are educated, urbane and well-travelled.

Nice review and it agrees with my knowledge of the country. And I guess you would agree with me that a lot of people resisted the coup to prevent a secular military-style government and they ended up with a theocratic dictatorship.

And please answer my question on the previous page: the armed forces are humiliated, lost a lot of stuff in important jobs etc. How do you think they are going to react to regain status and self-respect?

[t43562]

I would just like to add a point about how Erdogan is responding to the Gulenist organisation. As told to me this is a very religious society that helps poor kids to get a good education (helps them to cheat in exams too so I am told) and when they get a good job or a position in government or the police or the army then their debt is "called in" and they have to do as they are told and contribute.

They have tried for a long time to get into the army, I am told, and despite its efforts to protect itself they have managed it. I'm not sure if I have this exactly right but I think Erdogan was one of them and used them but now he's frightened of them.

The suggestion here is that the coup wasn't really secular but was organised by Gulenists. I don't quite know what to think but at least some of the people I know think this is believable. So the situation as it is seen by my...er... sources.... is that Erdogan is in the odd position of being a religious man who is forced to remove a highly religious group from the army, judiciary, civil service etc.

Hence at least some of the "urbane, educated, travelled Western" Turks that I know are not all that sorry about the situation. Specifically some have known people who were in the Gulen organisation so it's not theoretical for them - not a pure conspiracy theory.

[dctyke]

Fitliker posted,

News.Az - Turkey to open Incirlik airbase for Russian aircraft (http://news.az/articles/turkey/109852)



Turkey proposes cooperation with Russia in fighting Islamic State | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-turkey-russia-idUSKCN0ZK0QH)

If they do I hope they cope with the countless barriers we had to cope with our hosts at incirlik. I spent over a year of my life there, comes to something when we (allegedly) had to smuggle ac parts in just to keep jets flying.

[Whenurhappy]

theocratic dictatorship

Not yet, and not really.

The armed forces have been shaken to the core - the CHoD had a gun held to his head by his own COS; CAS was siezed by his own outer-office staff and guards, at a wedding. The President has announced a sweeping review of the forces (who will probably move under the MOD) and new leadership. Meanwhile the Army and Air Force are engaged in a brutal COIN campaign/civil war in teh SE and troops will feel that they've been let down by their own leaders. I agree, difficult time.

[Lonewolf_50]

The West will need to suck up to Erdoğan - as we need him as a bulwark against irregular migration, ISIS terrorism, you name it. Historically, these events are part of a regular pattern in Turkey over the last 200 years as it struggles between being Occidental or Oriental. Respectfully disagree, though most of your post strikes a chord with my experience in dealing with the Turkish military.


All the West has to do is put up with him. He's as much a feeder of ISIS as an opponent, see the last few years of petrol movement into Turkey from the ISIS areas. That doesn't happen by accident. In the past ten years they've had their issues with the Syrians, but the Turks have sufficient throw weight that they'll be able to handle Syria for the near future. Turkey's being in the middle between east and west is, as you say, part of being Turkey. IMO, the EU doesn't need Turkey in. Turkey as Turkey suffices. (As I am not in the EU, my opinion makes no difference).

Does NATO need Turkey? No. Absolutely not. The Cold War is over.


There was one time the US really needed Turkey (or a compliant Turkey) which was in the spring 2003 when Rummy's cunning plan to hit Saddam from both ends came a cropper when the Turks simply chose not to support it. While I was disappointed I completely understood why they did that:
(1) they have to live in that neighborhood,
(2) the concern they still have with Kurds in the region).


Is it handy to have Incirlik there as a Joint use base? Sure.
Is it essential? No.


NATO doesn't need Turkey. Turkey needs NATO a lot more for funding, security, and access to high level defense tech. Would someone else provide military technology if there was a parting of ways? In time, perhaps, but their habitual relationship and connections with various NATO states is a current advantage.

I'll accept the position that Turkey in NATO prevent much crap between Turkey and Greece. Old joke from a Dutch colleague: NATO's greatest success has been to prevent a war between Turkey and Greece -- the Cold War was a mild annoyance compared to their never ending bickering. :}

Since there is no way under the Washington Treaty to toss someone out of NATO, and since the democratic nations would rather see the military support civilian leadership, and since there is no compelling reason to change the status quo, then the inertia of what is will remain. It's too much trouble to change, and accrues to nobody any particular advantage.

[Chronus]

123 out of about 350 generals in the Turkish Armed Forces,are behind bars. Out of 14 four star generals, career Air Force general Akin Ozturk, who with his 5800hrs chalked up on F-16, F-4, F-5, F-104, F-100, EUROFIGHTER, JAS 39, T-38, T-37, KT-1T, T-33, T-34, T-41, SF-260, G550, G-IV, CIT-VII, CN-235, KC-135, A400M, E-7T, UH-1H, AS-532, T-129 is also behind bars.
Here are some before and after pictures of him. Disturbing, yes. Utterly shameful, yes. Disgraceful, yes.

Ak?n Öztürk iki günde bu hale geldi! (http://www.milliyet.com.tr/iki-gunde-bu-hale-geldi-gundem-2280833/)

Now I think Lonewolf 50 does have a point about who needs who.

[NutLoose]

I would think if the US and Europe responded chopped funding and turned the spares taps off for his fleets, be they navy, air, or ground, he would soon have to change his tune.

[Lonewolf_50]

I would think if the US and Europe responded chopped funding and turned the spares taps off for his fleets, be they navy, air, or ground, he would soon have to change his tune.
Or, he'd just sack more of his officers.

[West Coast]

I would think if the US and Europe responded chopped funding and turned the spares taps off for his fleets, be they navy, air, or ground, he would soon have to change his tune.


Or he'd have other vendors knocking on his door. I'm sure Vlad would love to turn a NATO member into a client.

[Chronus]

Or, he'd just sack more of his officers.
But then he will have less horfficers left to knock the seven bells out of.

[Lyneham Lad]

When the US turned off the tap to Egypt after their military coup, who was quick to step in? Yes indeed, that friendly Putin chap...

[melmothtw]

When the US turned off the tap to Egypt after their military coup, who was quick to step in?


The French


3.2 billion euros of Egypt-French arms deal financed by loan from Paris: Sisi | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-egypt-france-loan-idUSKBN0LW0ZN20150228)

[ORAC]

Tasnim News Agency - Turkish Police Block Access to NATO's Incirlik Air Base (http://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2016/07/31/1144495/turkish-police-block-access-to-nato-s-incirlik-air-base)

All inputs and outputs to the Incirlik Air Base located in Adana have been closed as Turkish Minister of European Affairs cautions that it is just a "safety inspection" while local newspapers speculate that a second coup attempt may be underway.

Some 7,000 armed police with heavy vehicles surrounded and blocked the Incirlik air base in Adana used by NATO forces, already restricted in the aftermath of a failed coup. Unconfirmed reports say troops were sent to deal with a new coup attempt. According to the Turkish Minister for European Affairs, Omer Celik, this is just a routine "safety inspection." Hurriyet, by contrast, said that anti-terror police received reports of a second attempt by Gulenists to overthrow the Erdogan government, Sputnik reported.

Incirlik Air Base, located in the province of Adana, is a critical NATO base in Turkey. The US maintains 50 to 90 tactical nuclear weapons at the base. Local media has focused on the base after the failed coup in Turkey occurred the night of July 15. Although the main scenes of the events were Istanbul and Ankara, Incirlik was shut down by local authorities shortly after the putsch, and several Turkish soldiers from the base were deemed by Turkish officials to be involved in the overthrow attempt.

The lockdown at Incirlik follows a massive wave of protests on Thursday when pro-Erdogan nationalists took to the streets yelling "death to the US" and called for the immediate closure of the Incirlik base. Security personnel dispersed the protesters before they were able to make it to the base. The massive presence of armed police supported by heavy vehicles calls into question the Turkish government's official line that the lock down at the Incirlik base is merely a "safety inspection."

Turkish European Affairs Minister took to Twitter to once again assert that there was a "general security check" at Incirlik Air Base and that "nothing is wrong" there.

[Lonewolf_50]

pro-Erdogan nationalists took to the streets yelling "death to the US"

Reminds me of similar protests in Europe in the 70's in other nations.
And in the 80's.
And in the early 00's regarding the Middle East.

[Chronus]

Reminds me of similar protests in Europe in the 70's in other nations.
And in the 80's.
And in the early 00's regarding the Middle East.
It does make me wonder as to how many of these protesters were wearing jeans rather than the baggy pants with extended crotches and drinking cokes instead of raki.

[Lonewolf_50]

So long as they look fashionable in their selfies, it's all good when it comes to radical chic, or even radical sheik! :}

[The Wawa Zone]

The Turkish AF was sending a detachment to Australia for Ex Pitch Black, but their name seems to have disappeared off the guest list published last week. I was looking forward to getting some F4 pics !
Does anyone know if they have actually arrived ?

[ORAC]

Turkish officer seeks asylum in US: report (http://www.politico.eu/article/turkish-officer-seeks-asylum-in-us-report-nato-erdogan-coup/)

A Turkish officer working at NATO’s U.S.-based Allied Command Transformation headquarters is seeking asylum in the country after being recalled in the wake of last month’s failed Turkish coup, Reuters reported. The asylum request, reportedly the first involving a Turkish officer in the U.S. since the country’s army attempted to overthrow President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan’s government July 15, could further derail the U.S.-Turkey relationship........

US to Turkey: Back off (http://www.politico.eu/article/us-to-turkey-back-off/)

[Lonewolf_50]

The Propaganda war is interesting to watch.


If Turkey wants to "kick the US out of Incerlik" (per the article) it will be interesting to see how the nukes are removed from the country. Fun times for all.

[Whenurhappy]

The Turkish AF was sending a detachment to Australia for Ex Pitch Black, but their name seems to have disappeared off the guest list published last week. I was looking forward to getting some F4 pics !
Does anyone know if they have actually arrived ?
TURAF have withdrawn from PITCH BLACK.

[Wokkafans]

Not seen this confirmed elsewhere so unsure on its veracity.

"Turkey signals joint defense plan with Russia - Anadolu Agency"

http://aa.com.tr/en/politics/turkey-signals-joint-defense-plan-with-russia/625918

[Less Hair]

Vlad will try to lure them out of NATO for sure.

[AreOut]

he is sure going to be a bit more tolerant than west for erdogans dictatorial shenanigans

[Lonewolf_50]

Vlad will try to lure them out of NATO for sure. They only have to give one year's notice, per the Washington Treaty. They have the right to leave if they like.

[Wander00]

Easier than leaving the EU then -

[Whenurhappy]

They only have to give one year's notice, per the Washington Treaty. They have the right to leave if they like.
What - leave NATO and stop being the thorn in everybody's side? Turkey craves, indeed, demands respect. It gets this through being a big player in NATO (in reality, they aren't) as everyone sucks up to them - principally because Geography doesn't change.

[NITRO104]

"Turkey signals joint defense plan with Russia - Anadolu Agency"
Can't wait.

[t43562]

E. is a Mugabe-like fellow. Shouting one minute, sucking up the next. Turks see themselves as cleverly playing the big powers off against each other to their own benefit. For this to work, they can't let any big power think that it has entirely won.

[Wokkafans]

The Speccie - Is Putin and Erdogan’s bromance back on?

Is Putin and Erdogan's bromance back on? | Coffee House (http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/08/putin-erdogans-bromance-back/)

[ORAC]

Turkish airmen who fled coup can stay in Greece | World | The Times & The Sunday Times (http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/turkish-airmen-who-fled-coup-can-stay-in-greece-zdrq37k2t)

Two majors and a sergeant who flew a military helicopter into Greece after the botched coup in Turkey and requested asylum will not be extradited, a Greek court has ruled. The decision, which threatens to damage relations with Ankara, almost certainly means that five other Turkish soldiers who were part of the group that landed in northern Greece in July this year will not be returned.

Justice officials said that the tribunal’s decision yesterday was unanimous after the men’s lawyers argued that they faced grave threats to their safety if they were returned to Turkey. The country has arrested 37,000 people and sacked or suspended 100,000 more who were allegedly connected with the coup attempt or the faction behind it. About 265 people died on both sides. The court agreed that Ankara had failed to provide sufficient evidence linking the three to the coup attempt. The surprise decision was greeted with cheers and elation among the Turkish men, including Ahmet Güzel, an air force major stationed at a Nato airbase in Istanbul. In the weeks after they landed in Greece it had appeared likely that they would be sent back.

The sheer scale of the Turkish purge has alarmed Turkey’s allies in Europe and beyond, raising fears that it could be sliding towards authoritarian rule. “This is a historic legal victory,” Stavroula Tomara, the men’s lawyer, said. “Greek justice has proven that it is truly unbiased and Europe can stand proud of defending its human rights record,” she told The Times.

None of the eight Turkish troops — two majors, four captains and two sergeants — has yet been granted political asylum by the Greek authorities. Turkey’s defence minister, Fikri Isik, said after the verdict that Ankara still expected Greece to hand over the fugitives. “Our expectation from the Greek government is to display every kind of effort possible for [the eight] to be returned,” he said. Legal experts said that Turkey could appeal, pushing any final decision into the hands of the Greek justice minister. Three more of the men were due to face a similar extradition hearing today.

[ORAC]

Key Nato posts go to pro-Russia hardliners in new Turkish purge | News | The Times & The Sunday Times (http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/key-nato-posts-go-to-pro-russia-hardliners-in-new-turkish-purge-8x37c92h6)

Turkey is replacing pro-western military officers in diplomatic and Nato posts in London and across Europe with pro-Russian hardliners, sources have claimed. Their accounts are backed by a leaked email seen by The Times.
The purge comes in the aftermath of a failed coup against President Erdogan over the summer, and raises fears that the ability of the Nato alliance to function is being weakened, which would be a victory for President Putin.

Turkish officers recently dismissed from critical roles within Nato have written to General Curtis Scaparrotti, the alliance’s top commander, warning that “ultra-nationalists” are on the ascendant in Turkey’s military, according to the leaked email. “I and my Turkish colleagues observe a considerable rise of ultra-nationalist, anti-western sentiments within our military and throughout our state departments,” a senior Turkish officer and Nato commander wrote last week. “It is very worrying to witness that some of the newcomers from Turkey to Nato have a radical mindset, some question the values of Nato and even hate western organisations while holding pro-Russia-China-Iran sentiments.” The ousted officer noted the “deliberate attrition of western-minded, egalitarian, secular, politically non-biased, honest and successful officers”, amid growing fears that Turkey’s post-coup purges have wounded Nato at a time when it faces a newly aggressive Russia.

At least two senior officers in the Turkish defence attaché’s office at the embassy in London were ordered back to Turkey after the July coup attempt, according to a former Nato official. Both sought advice from British military counterparts about the possibility of claiming asylum in the UK because they feared arrest if they returned home, the former official said. “They were s*** scared,” he added. It is not known what happened to the officers..........

A shift by Mr Erdogan away from the West and towards Russia and China could damage the effectiveness of Nato, which relies on consensus among all 28 allies to make any decision, the former senior alliance official said. “From a European liberal, democratic perspective the whole country is going backwards and from a Nato perspective the whole country is becoming very unreliable. It’s a problem, a huge problem. It seriously complicates Nato doing anything and getting its act together.”.........

General Scaparrotti, Supreme Allied Commander, Europe, admitted after a meeting of Nato foreign ministers this week that his allied command operations had lost half its strength when 150 Turkish military personnel were purged. His comments prompted a furious reaction in the Turkish press, with some accusing him of supporting Fethullah Gulen, the cleric accused of orchestrating the failed coup.

Nato members send hundreds of officers to fill jobs at the alliance’s headquarters in Brussels and elsewhere in Europe. They serve two or three-year deployments and each officer is vetted by his or her country, meaning that Nato is unable to turn away anyone deemed suitable for service by a member state........

[ORAC]

Secular officers feel abandoned by free-world alliance | News | The Times & The Sunday Times (http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/secular-officers-feel-abandoned-by-free-world-alliance-rq8cpb30l)

Reduced to hiding at home or meeting in cafés, the Turkish officers purged from their jobs with Nato fear for their future and safety.

Based at the alliance’s headquarters in the Belgian capital or its strategic command in Mons, about 40 were given three days to leave their posts and return to Ankara. Those who did have been arrested; some have disappeared. President Erdogan has referred to them as “terrorist soldiers”. That appeared to make them fair game for Turkey’s MIT intelligence service. Those who remain feel abandoned by the military alliance that many have devoted their lives to as career officers who see themselves as secular and democratic.

It’s not just officers with Nato who have been purged. More than 100 Turkish military attachés in embassies across the world were placed under investigation this autumn and diplomats were ordered to carry out searches of the homes of purged attachés in Europe’s capitals. Thirteen military attachés were recalled to Ankara and told they would receive new postings as part of a post-coup shake-up of Turkey’s diplomatic corps. Three went back, from Rome, Cairo and Paris, and were invited to meetings in the ministry. When they arrived, police were waiting and arrests were made. Many of the ten remaining attachés are said to be claiming asylum.

In a farewell speech in Mons this week, one air force officer made a desperate plea. “Nato is supposed to be the alliance of the free world. Nato needs to take a stand, not only when appalling things happen on its borders, like in Ukraine or Syria, but also when they happen within the organisation,” he said.

Last week Nato sent letters to military staff asking them to return their diplomatic identification documents, leaving them the choice of trying to find work in Belgium, claiming asylum or returning to be imprisoned in Turkey.

All the officers have been repeatedly security vetted for sensitive military posts. “They know everything about us,” said a former major. “The idea we are Gulenist plotters is ridiculous.”

Earlier this week, General Curtis Scaparrotti, Nato’s supreme allied commander in Europe, was asked if he had suspicions that any of the officers were involved with the coup. “No,” he replied crisply. “These officers served well here in Nato.”

[ORAC]

Purged Turkish officers seek asylum | World | The Times & The Sunday Times (http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/purged-turkish-officers-seek-asylum-2nzllvfpz)

More than three dozen high-ranking Turkish military officers have applied for asylum in Germany after being suspended from their duties since the failed military coup. The officers, who were all in Nato posts, were recalled to Turkey after the revolt on July 15.

Ankara has accused followers of the charismatic imam Fethullah Gulen, who lives in exile in the US, of orchestrating the coup by infiltrating the military over three decades. Mr Gulen has denied involvement. Those targeted appear to have extended far beyond the small group of Gulenists within the military to include secularists and any other officers not loyal to President Erdogan. The purge of the military has decimated Turkey’s personnel at Nato bases across Europe, with hundreds of officers working in the alliance’s command structures sacked or recalled, and arrested if they return home. Some of those caught up in the crackdown have warned that vacant Nato positions are being filled by Turkish officers who harbour anti-western, pro-Russian sentiments.

The Times has learnt that wives of military officers are also being arrested and imprisoned, apparently in an attempt to pressure their husbands into signing confessions that they were part of the coup attempt. Forty-one wives are in jail in Turkey, including one who is suffering from cancer. They are accused of paying a Gulenist-linked corruption ring for the answers to the entrance exam for government employment.

However, other wives, whose husbands were on Nato attachments at the time of the coup and have avoided arrest by not returning to Turkey, said that the payments were linked to a support fund set up for the widow of an officer killed in a battle with Kurdish PKK militants in 2015. The accusation that the payments were for the exam answers is, they say, a cover for their arrests. “I took this exam in 2010 and I started my job in the following year,” the wife of a naval officer said. “I wasn’t under any suspicion about this exam . . . But right after July 15 my husband was suspended from his duty, all because of the exam that I had taken.”

An EU intelligence report seen by The Times this month said that all the targets of the purge had been determined by Turkish intelligence services before July 15. Some 43,000 people are remanded in custody and 123,000 have been sacked over allegations of a connection with the attempted coup.

[ORAC]

Turkey warns Germany not to accept soldiers' asylum claims - POLITICO (http://www.politico.eu/article/turkey-warns-germany-not-to-accept-soldiers-asylum-claims/)

Ankara has called on Berlin to deny asylum to members of the Turkish military in the wake of the country’s failed July coup, German media reported Monday. German authorities “are absolutely not allowed to accept these asylum requests,” Turkish Defense Minister Fikri Işık said in a video published by Turkish state-run news agency Anadolu.

The comments came after German media reported over the weekend that at least 40 Turkish NATO soldiers, most high-ranking, had applied for asylum in Germany. The interior and migration ministries said the requests would be treated according to regular processes.

“For a country such as Germany, which has strong cultural, social and political ties with Turkey, it would be deeply unacceptable to grant protection,” Işık said, adding that he expected Germany to reject all asylum claims made by Turkish soldiers on the grounds they are suspected of involvement in the attempted coup.

Earlier this month, Germany announced it would stop cooperating with Turkish judicial authorities on criminal matters over concerns the country is misusing the process for political means in the wake of the coup.

Turkey last week threatened to back out of its migration deal with the European Union after Greece refused to extradite soldiers on Ankara’s request.

[Just This Once...]

Not much of an asylum system if it requires the permission of the state you are avoiding. If anything this demand from Ankara has provided all the evidence required for a successful asylum application.

[Brat]

As has happened in Greece, much to Turkey’s ire.

[MPN11]

“For a country such as Germany, which has strong cultural, social and political ties with Turkey, ..."
1. Cultural ... we both used to goose-step.
2. Social ... Germany is already full of Turkish gastarbeitern.
3. Political ... we both have many political parties, some of which are banned?

[ORAC]

Norway grants asylum to Turkish coup officers | World | The Times & The Sunday Times (http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/norway-grants-asylum-to-turkish-coup-officers-lbhldxc8q)

Five Turkish military officers have been granted asylum in Norway, the first to be given refugee status since the failed military coup last July. Four of the officers had been posted at a Nato educational base in Norway while the fifth was a military attaché. After the attempted coup they were suspended and recalled to Turkey but instead claimed asylum.

About 260 Turkish Nato officers have been suspended in President Erdogan’s sweeping purge of the armed forces since the failed revolt. All of those who have returned to Turkey as ordered have been arrested on arrival and are being detained in prison. Others have remained and are applying for asylum. Germany and Belgium have also received asylum applications from sacked Turkish officers.

The Norwegian decision has infuriated the Turkish government. Numan Kurtulmus, the Turkish deputy prime minister, said: “It’s not possible to accept this. This is wrong. This means protecting and defending this gang known as Feto [the Gulenist movement, the group accused of organising the coup attempt].”

A 2,700-page indictment filed by the Turkish state against the alleged coup plotters claims that 8,651 military personnel, or 1.5 per cent of the armed forces, were involved. Critics say that dismissals and arrests in the post-coup crackdown have gone way beyond those suspected of Gulenist links to ensnare all of Mr Erdogan’s opponents, from secular nationalists to leftwing Kurds. More than half of Turkish generals and admirals have been dismissed, and in many cases arrested, since July. The first trials of troops accused of involvement in the coup began last month.

A total of 89 Turkish citizens applied for asylum in Norway last year, all but 13 of them after the coup attempt..........

[ORAC]

Ahmet Sik attacks Erdogan’s ‘dirty crime dynasty’ (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/ahmet-sik-attacks-erdogan-s-dirty-crime-dynasty-58tbppbhb)

An opposition journalist standing trial on terrorism charges in Turkey has delivered a searing attack on President Erdogan and his government. On the third day of the hearing against 12 journalists and five board members at Cumhuriyet, the left-leaning, secularist newspaper, Ahmet Sik said:

“Those who think that this dirty system, this crime dynasty, will last for ever are wrong. Like all the dictatorships that darken the pages of history, those who toil to progress with the insatiable hunger of their hates and ambitions, always prepare their own ends. I was a journalist yesterday. I am a journalist today. I will continue practising journalism tomorrow. That means the irreconcilable contradiction between us and those who want to strangle the truth will never end.”

The investigative reporter was jailed for a year in 2011 for his exposé of the Gulenists, followers of Fethullah Gulen, a charismatic Islamic cleric who worked their way into influential state positions. At that time Mr Erdogan was prime minister and in a loose alliance with the Gulenists. The relationship crumbled in 2013 and he declared war on his old allies. He blamed the academic for last year’s attempted coup. Since then, the government has closed businesses and schools linked to the Gulenists and purged the police and judiciary. More than 150,000 people have been arrested or fired from the bureaucracy, security services and academia. The media has also been cauterised: 177 journalists are in jail and 149 media outlets have been closed down.

Mr Sik and his colleagues are accused of helping the Gulenists and the banned Kurdish PKK militia. The verdict will be decided solely by the judge. The prosecutor who brought the case against the newspaper was himself later charged with aiding the Gulenists.

[ORAC]

Interesting. Real politique and all that, but since when has an appeal court been able to overrule a Supreme Court? The clue being in the name of the court so to speak. And even the “appeal court” seems blatantly to acknowledge it is acting politically and not on a matter of law. One wonders if the ECJ will act - or ignore?

The EU would seem much more interested in acting against Poland and Hungary however....

Greek court suspends asylum for alleged Turkish coup collaborator (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/greek-court-suspends-asylum-for-alleged-turkish-coup-collaborator-993w7w57v)

A Greek court has suspended asylum for a Turkish pilot because the judge said that offering him a haven would endanger relations with Ankara..... Mr Ozkaynakci was detained after the ruling, which the authorities said would protect him from assassination or kidnapping.

The eight men, who hijacked a military helicopter after the failed coup against President Erdogan and fled to northern Greece, are at the centre of ill-tempered diplomatic wrangling. The supreme court in Greece blocked their extradition last year and last week they won asylum.

However, the Greek government, under threat of dire repercussions from Turkey unless the men are sent back, has begun to change its tune. Alexis Tsipras, the prime minister, ordered the men’s asylum to be rescinded hours after it was granted.....

Yesterday an appeals tribunal in Athens froze last week’s supreme court decision, saying that granting asylum “imperils the state’s interests, endangering Greece’s relations with Turkey”.....

[Heathrow Harry]

not everyone is blessed with the US Constitution

Different countries, different constitutions

hell- we don't even have one - we can (and do) make it up as we go along......... that was one of the big things for BREXITEERS - they hated being "ruled" by judges and a proto-European system of Justice

[ORAC]

Don’t need one - Common Law in that respect is superior to Civil Law.

[Wander00]

I have a number of friends who continue to holiday in Turkey. My suggestion that they stop helping to prop up Erdogan's regime sadly falls on deaf ears.

[ORAC]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/recep-tayyip-erdogan-seizes-control-of-turkish-special-forces-s0ls2bd9n

Recep Tayyip Erdogan seizes control of Turkish special forces

Thousands of elite police divisions charged with counterterror operations are to be taken under President Erdogan’s direct command, further eroding the independence of the security forces in Turkey.

The special police and gendarmerie units have led operations against Kurdish militants in eastern Turkey and northern Syria since 2015, and are armed with sub-machine guns and sniper rifles. They have been under the control of the interior and defence ministries since they were formed in 1982. The gendarmerie, charged with security operations in rural areas, was taken out of the army command structure and brought under the control of the interior ministry under an emergency decree shortly after the failed coup in 2016.

A new order published this morning takes both special forces units under the direct command of the presidency.

Police special forces were on the front line of the government’s fightback against the coup-makers in July 2016, and their headquarters in Ankara were bombed by rogue fighter pilots. Since then their numbers have soared as the government has opened up tens of thousands of new positions. The combined number of police and gendarmerie special forces is expected to reach 50,000 this year, up from 20,000 in 2016......

Before that, however, sources close to the military were expressing concern over the rapid expansion of the special forces and their closeness to Mr Erdogan.

The police special forces recruits are selected from the ranks of the regular police, and are trained by a private military company called Sadat. It is headed by Adnan Tanriverdi, a former Turkish general who was forced into early retirement in the 1990s due to his suspected Islamist sympathies. Mr Tanriverdi was appointed one of Mr Erdogan’s special advisers two weeks after the coup attempt.......

Similar orders have been used to sack 160,000 public sector workers and to round up those suspected of involvement. More than 232,000 people are behind bars in connection with the putsch, most of them in pre-trial detention. Only 50,000 have been formally charged.

Turkey’s mounting instability and crumbling rule of law has sent the lira into a tailspin (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/100-officers-jailed-as-economy-suffers-in-erdogan-s-iron-grip-73tcfzd3q) a month before key elections, losing more than a fifth of its value (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pressure-grows-on-central-bank-as-lira-hits-new-low-3tdxg7btp) against the pound and the dollar since the start of this year. A fresh slide was prompted last night by a statement from the ratings agency Fitch, who warned of further damage to Turkey’s credit profile due to the “undermining of policy-making credibility”.

Mr Erdogan has repeatedly stated that he will take full control of monetary policy, leading foreign investors to pull out of Turkish bonds and stocks.

[ORAC]

http://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/05/23/us-drones-are-being-based-in-greece-for-the-first-time-and-that-might-not-sit-well-with-turkey/

Why are US drones being based in Greece for the first time?

WASHINGTON – .......The U.S. Air Force has begun using MQ-9 Reaper drones (https://www.defensenews.com/news/your-air-force/2018/02/16/air-force-announces-official-retirement-date-for-iconic-mq-1-predator/) out of Larisa Air Force Base, located halfway down Greece’s eastern side, near the Aegean Sea. In response to an inquiry from Defense News, Pentagon spokesman Eric Pahon said the aircraft are being temporarily stationed at Larisa while their usual base in Africa undergoes repairs. The news was first reported locally by the To Vima newspaper (http://www.tovima.gr/en/article/?aid=954930) in Greece.

“These aircraft are unarmed and are only used for reconnaissance. Due to operational security considerations, however, we do not release details on specific missions,” Pahon said. “Its support on this mission and others is critical to achieving our joint foreign policy security objectives in the region (https://www.defensenews.com/flashpoints/2017/10/02/us-mq-9-drone-shot-down-in-yemen/), specifically to address threats emanating from the south.”

The drones are being stationed at Larisa under the aegis of an existing joint training order between the two nations. Staff handling the take-off and landing of the Reapers will be stationed at Larisa, with operators in the continental U.S. handling normal flight operations via satellite — a common set-up for the MQ-9. The aircraft only fly through Greek airspace ”on routes that have been approved by the Greece government and while operating in Greek airspace are in contact with Greek Air Traffic Control authorities at all times,” said Auburn Davis, chief of media operations for USAF Air Forces Africa.......

While the mission of the MQ-9s stationed at Greece will be focused southward, the move has potential to upset America’s NATO ally Turkey. The U.S. has long relied on the Incirlik military base to launch operations in the region, but the relationship between Washington and Ankara has been strained ever since a 2016 coup attempt by members of the Turkish military.

Greece would certainly like to capitalize on that tensions. Notably, the initial To Vima report also claims that U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs Wes Mitchell discussed moving a “significant portion” of the military presence from Incirlik to Greece during a recent visit to Athens........

[Brat]

Over some years it would seem that Turkey has been a somewhat on-off, and lukewarm ally to both NATO and the US.

It’s human rights record both historically and to the present day are pretty abysmal. The enthusiasm with which a substantial portion of the Turkish population took part in the Armenian genocide was pretty sobering as is the present reluctance of modern Turkey to deal with it’s recent past in this particular regard.

It’s rather too warm and cosy relationship with daesh in the early stages of that dystopian organisations rise to power was definitely concerning.

It’s slide to more militant Islam is hardly reassuring and it's latest AA missile deal with Moscow positively alarming given it’s standing in the F-35 project. Alarm bell have been ringing over Turkey’s position in the F-35 program, and it is still very much a dilemma that is being scrutinised.

The EU negotiated a rather flawed and one sided refugee deal with Turkey, and Turkey has long pressed for the EU membership part, which, given it’s present human rights violations, still remains undecided.

Erdogan is a cunning bully and his ongoing consolidation power is in a manner which is all too reminiscent of some of the more unsavoury modern day dictators that have held power in recent times.

The US has long been at odds with Turkey/Erdogan’s policies and decisions, and a re-balancing of it’s position with certain NATO ‘allies’ is probably about time.

[t43562]

Over some years it would seem that Turkey has been a somewhat on-off, and lukewarm ally to both NATO and the US.

It’s human rights record both historically and to the present day are pretty abysmal. The enthusiasm with which a substantial portion of the Turkish population took part in the Armenian genocide was pretty sobering as is the present reluctance of modern Turkey to deal with it’s recent past in this particular regard.

It’s rather too warm and cosy relationship with daesh in the early stages of that dystopian organisations rise to power was definitely concerning.

It’s slide to more militant Islam is hardly reassuring and it's latest AA missile deal with Moscow positively alarming given it’s standing in the F-35 project. Alarm bell have been ringing over Turkey’s position in the F-35 program, and it is still very much a dilemma that is being scrutinised.

The EU negotiated a rather flawed and one sided refugee deal with Turkey, and Turkey has long pressed for the EU membership part, which, given it’s present human rights violations, still remains undecided.

Erdogan is a cunning bully and his ongoing consolidation power is in a manner which is all too reminiscent of some of the more unsavoury modern day dictators that have held power in recent times.

The US has long been at odds with Turkey/Erdogan’s policies and decisions, and a re-balancing of it’s position with certain NATO ‘allies’ is probably about time.

Turkey, which is where I am now, and the words "militant Islam" are a ridiculous combination. I wonder if I can be bothered to say any more really. Turks are divided and the split is almost exactly similar in character to the splits you get in countries like the UK right now or in America with the Trump supporters - it's about the fight between classes and the issues are just the weapons being used. Reasons and logic don't work because it's a sort of tribal battle not an issues battle (exactly like in the west). A bunch of conservative ex-country-bumpkins elect people who talk about religion and all the things they like and city snowflake liberals can bugger off kind of thing. Nobody has to behave consistently as long as they shout out "down with Israel" loudly they can get away with doing deals with Israel in private, drinking beer and getting on with their dodgy property deals.

[ORAC]

Apart from the current quarter if a million rounded up and put behind bars - and including anyone who speaks a bit too publically against President for Life (a forecast) Erdogan......

[rog747]

just back from IST
had a great weekend - despite the President closing all the roads in the centre and around his Dolmabahce Palace as he was hosting a summit on jerusalem there with much of the arabs hobnobs - almost 3 hours it took in traffic from the airport to my hotel which was near the Palace - 2 big warships were anchored off in the Bosphorus across from the Palace during the summit Fri and Sat

my pal is a top wealthy businessman there with a factory employing 300 in superb conditions - they have a pool and a gym for the staff
he is very worried by what's going on - very worried indeed, as are all the middle and upper classes who want to live and work in a normal very westernised secuallar civilized existence with a normal society as they have been really since Ataturk

go to any cafe in IST or a restaurant and you could be in Barcelona New York or London

it seems Erdogan is popular with the ''people'' but is power grabbing in a rather alarming way as noted above

My pal is so worried he wants to sell up and get out as do many of his friends

[Wander00]

If people stopped holidaying in Turkey - there are plenty of other places - that would help put Erdogan and his cronies under pressure

[rog747]

If people stopped holidaying in Turkey - there are plenty of other places - that would help put Erdogan and his cronies under pressure

they have - there are no western tourists in any number seen now in IST and the beach resorts Bodrum,kusadasi etc saw last summer record lows in bookings from UK and EU - discounting heavily on packages

Cruise liners have stayed away but are just returning in small number this year but none have been into IST for some time now

[A_Van]

If it's all about human rights issue (suppressed by Erdogan, no doubt), then for consistency similar actions should be taken towards other similar regimes. And compared with Qatar, Saudi Arabia and even UAE, Erdogan & Co. are ultra-liberals ;) So, what about stop buying in Harrods in London (owned by a Qatari royal family, who, BTW, were planning to remove the Diana's statue out of the building this spring)? What about boycotting football matches of Manchester City (owned by a guy from UAE) or Sheffield United (a Saudi prince) or PSG (a guy from Qatar)?

[beardy]

If it's all about human rights issue (suppressed by Erdogan, no doubt), then for consistency similar actions should be taken towards other similar regimes. And compared with Qatar, Saudi Arabia and even UAE, Erdogan & Co. are ultra-liberals ;) So, what about stop buying in Harrods in London (owned by a Qatari royal family, who, BTW, were planning to remove the Diana's statue out of the building this spring)? What about boycotting football matches of Manchester City (owned by a guy from UAE) or Sheffield United (a Saudi prince) or PSG (a guy from Qatar)?
It's more likely to be about a regression away from the liberties achieved by the expression of Human Rights. The countries you mention are progressing, slowly, towards allowing Human Rights Turkey is retreating from them.

Have you seen the statue in Harrods? It is dire.

[ORAC]

I think Turkey will end being treated the same. As to the comparison - they can all spend their money in the UK, where they buy assets they can’t take away. Tourism is not a major industry in any of the other nations you cite.

As for access to high tech arms, I will watch with interest the progress of the bill presently going through Congress. Already approved by the House and apparently sailing through the Senate....

https://ahvalnews.com/us-turkey/turkey-condemns-us-bill-could-bar-f-35-sale

[Heathrow Harry]

If it's all about human rights issue (suppressed by Erdogan, no doubt), then for consistency similar actions should be taken towards other similar regimes. And compared with Qatar, Saudi Arabia and even UAE, Erdogan & Co. are ultra-liberals ;) So, what about stop buying in Harrods in London (owned by a Qatari royal family, who, BTW, were planning to remove the Diana's statue out of the building this spring)? What about boycotting football matches of Manchester City (owned by a guy from UAE) or Sheffield United (a Saudi prince) or PSG (a guy from Qatar)?

Turkey is not a major oil & gas producer Van - makes all the difference

[rog747]

Russia is sniffing in the wings

[Heathrow Harry]

Russia is sniffing in the wings

well they are neighbours.............. I'd be amazed if the Russians didn't sense the opportunity - Turkey has been a thorn in their side (and vice versa) for centuries

[Brat]

Turkey, which is where I am now, and the words "militant Islam" are a ridiculous combination. I wonder if I can be bothered to say any more really. Turks are divided and the split is almost exactly similar in character to the splits you get in countries like the UK right now or in America with the Trump supporters - it's about the fight between classes and the issues are just the weapons being used. Reasons and logic don't work because it's a sort of tribal battle not an issues battle (exactly like in the west). A bunch of conservative ex-country-bumpkins elect people who talk about religion and all the things they like and city snowflake liberals can bugger off kind of thing. Nobody has to behave consistently as long as they shout out "down with Israel" loudly they can get away with doing deals with Israel in private, drinking beer and getting on with their dodgy property deals.
That may well be a quick off the cuff assesement that may satisfy some but Turkey is a predominantly Muslim nation that since 1920 under Ataturk attempted to adopt a democratic tradition and government and become bridge between a democratic West and Islamic East. Together with this strategy Turkey joined NATO in 1951 together with an ancient enemy Greece and is so doing managed to cement better ties with Europe and the US and has had the support of much of the population.

However, in 2001 a party with Islamist roots, the Adalet ve Kalkinma Partisi (AKP) managed to take power, and from then a very discernible political shift has been taking place. Subsequent changes in Turkey’s domestic and foreign policy have led many to feel that Turkey is now moving away from secularism and more to becoming an Islamist state like its former Ottoman roots.

Islamic principles, in relation to governance, provide clues as to why they might seek changes to the secular nature of its government and further incorporate Islamic practices. When Turkey’s present domestic and foreign policies are examined there is a similarity to Islamic revolutions in Iran and Afghanistan that can be see as possible examples of the evolution of Islamic movements and possibly the present situation as a retreat from the West and an attempted revival of Turkey's Islamic heritage by ‘possibly' a majority of the population

Turkey has become very much more proactive in its region, some of it’s recent behaviour, leanings towards Russia together with the perceived current Islamic revival and degraded democratic, moderate values has concerned both European and the US, hence the present situation and discussion over the F-35.

[Whenurhappy]

It's by no.means certain that Erdoğan will win the next round of elections. Turkey is still a democracy. But it's not helped by silly, unsubstantiated and mendacious articles such as the Times one claiming that the Special Operations Police now work for him, alongside the Jandarma. This story is completely false.

What we should be focussing on is the bills passing through Congress which will deny Turkey military technologies - including the F35 - and Will, as a result, boost Erdoğan's votes and drive a wedges between Turkey and the West.

[ORAC]

In 2013 Jordan’s King Abdullah reported in an interview that, during a conversation, Erogan had said to him that democracy was like a bus; he would ride it to the destination he wanted and,once there, he would get off.

It would appear that he’s reached his stop......

Hurriyet: Erdo?an plans a radical restructuring of the Turkish state (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/opinion/murat-yetkin/erdogan-plans-a-radical-restructuring-of-the-turkish-state-132396)

Erdoğan plans a radical restructuring of the Turkish state

President Tayyip Erdoğan (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/search/Erdo%C4%9Fan)’s plans to reduce the number of ministries if elected seems to aim beyond simply cutting the spending of the huge bureaucratic machine of Turkey (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/search/Turkey). The reporting of Hürriyet’s Nuray Babacan about a planned reduction in the number of ministries to 14 (with at most four deputy presidents) if Erdoğan (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/search/Erdo%C4%9Fan) is re-elected in snap elections on June 24 - or on July 8 if a second round is needed – seem to aim for a radical restructuring of the Turkish state apparatus, according to evaluations in Ankara’s political circles.

The framework of this restructuring is the April 2017 referendum transferring all executive powers to the president, who will also be given additional influence on the judiciary (such as the appointment of more judges to the Constitutional Court) and the parliament (such as enabling the president to keep the party chairmanship post).........

The biggest difference in the new system will be the lack of a prime minister, whether Erdoğan (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/search/Erdo%C4%9Fan) or some other candidate is elected. The president will form the cabinet and the cabinet will not need a vote of confidence in parliament. Another major change, which has already gone into effect, is that the chief of general staff and the head of the National Intelligence Agency (MİT) will directly report to the president as the commander in chief (they used to report to the prime minister)......

The logic behind this radical restructuring is the centralization of all political decisions in presidential hands. The president will serve as head of the cabinet, which will be made up of ministers who are not members of parliament. If the president wants a certain name to be a member of his (or her) cabinet, then his or her membership of parliament will be lifted. The fundamental message is that there will be only one voice as the political decision-making mechanism: The president.........

Erdoğan (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/search/Erdo%C4%9Fan) had actually signaled this kind of restructuring during the referendum campaign. He denied that it would mean “one-man rule,” instead claiming it will simply speed up decision-making mechanisms and increase the efficiency of the bureaucracy and the economy.

[Brat]

Turkey has threatened to ‘retaliate’ if they do not get the F-35.
https://sputniknews.com/world/201805271064853249-turkey-jets-buy-russia-us/

Oh dear!!!

Now that is very worrying news. (Really??)

Perhaps they can take over where India pulled out?

[Brat]

It's by no.means certain that Erdoğan will win the next round of elections. Turkey is still a democracy. But it's not helped by silly, unsubstantiated and mendacious articles such as the Times one claiming that the Special Operations Police now work for him, alongside the Jandarma. This story is completely false.

What we should be focussing on is the bills passing through Congress which will deny Turkey military technologies - including the F35 - and Will, as a result, boost Erdoğan's votes and drive a wedges between Turkey and the West.
Erdogan seems to be fully capable of driving the present wedges created by him quite deep enough to do that job.

As for speeding up the decision making progress he is spot on. It most certainly will and is generally called ‘Dictatorship!!'

[Heathrow Harry]

Turkey has threatened to ‘retaliate’ if they do not get the F-35.
https://sputniknews.com/world/201805271064853249-turkey-jets-buy-russia-us/

Oh dear!!!

Now that is very worrying news. (Really??)

Practically they'd be cutting of their nose to spite their face but a continued Turkish drift towards Russia and away from NATO is very worrying - just recolour the map with Turkey as "neutral" and see how it complicates life in the E Med and Middle East for operations never mind politics

[Brat]

The way it has been behaving recently is becoming less like an ally and more like a neutral by the day.

[Heathrow Harry]

The way it has been behaving recently is becoming less like an ally and more like a neutral by the day.

I know..................... not good for them and not good for us................................

[Brat]

A point that seems sadly elusive to Erdogan.

[ORAC]

The Times: We will hunt down ‘coup plotters’ in Greece, warns Ankara

Turkey has vowed to find and seize eight soldiers who it says helped to organise a failed military coup to try and overthrow President Erdogan before they fled to Greece. Bekir Bozdag, Turkey’s government spokesman, said it was a “duty to hunt them down and bundle them” back home after Greek courts freed them to stay in the country.

The men — two majors, four captains and two sergeants — hijacked a military helicopter to escape from Turkey days after the botched coup in 2016, and Ankara wanted them extradited as fugitives. One has been granted asylum, and the others have applied. Turkey has ruthlessly purged coup plotters and anyone suspected of aiding or abetting them. Its agents snatched six Turkish citizens from Kosovo last month, taking them back to Ankara where they now face trials on charges of conspiring against the government of President Erdogan.

The threat to find and seize the Turkish fugitives in Greece follows the freeing of the last of the men after an 18-month holding order expired late on Monday. Four others were released following court orders last month. Details of the men’s whereabouts remain secret but their lawyers told The Times they were under heavy police protection.

The case has led to a sharp deterioration in relations between the two neighbouring states. “We’re not afraid of Turkey,” said Nikos Kotzias, the foreign minister. “We remain vigilant of its every move and intention, reviewing and evaluating constantly. We will continue to respond in line with what best serves Greece’s interests.”

Other Greek politicians were less diplomatic. Christos Simorelis, of the ruling Syriza party, said: “Rest assured that if they dare take to such a stunt we will break their hands.”

[Lyneham Lad]

Turkey escalates row with Greece over 'putschist' soldiers
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/05/turkey-escalates-row-with-greece-over-putschist-soldiers

Turkey (https://www.pprune.org/x-gu://list/mobile.guardianapis.com/uk/lists/tag/world/turkey) has sent fighter jets roaring into Greek airspace as tensions mount between the two neighbours following the release from pre-trial detention of eight Turkish army officers described as traitors by Ankara

[ORAC]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/us-issues-sanctions-over-jailed-pastor-andrew-brunson-qndll6hpk

US issues sanctions over jailed pastor Andrew Brunson

The US imposed financial sanctions on Turkey’s justice and interior ministers yesterday for detaining an American pastor accused of backing a coup attempt against President Erdogan.

In an extraordinary move directed at government officials of a fellow Nato country, the Treasury is freezing US assets belonging to Abdulhamit Gul, the justice minister, and Suleyman Soylu, the interior minister. The US blames them for the arrest and imprisonment of Andrew Brunson, who led a Protestant church in the city of Izmir. Mr Brunson is accused of aiding plotters of an attempted coup in 2016. If convicted, he faces up to 35 years in jail. He was put under house arrest last month after two years in prison in Turkey.

“Pastor Brunson’s unjust detention and continued prosecution by Turkish officials is simply unacceptable,” Steve Mnuchin, the US Treasury secretary, said. The Treasury notice states that Mr Gul and Mr Soylu are being sanctioned “as leaders of Turkish government organisations responsible for implementing Turkey’s serious human rights abuses”.

The White House disclosed that Mr Trump had spoken directly to President Erdogan about the detention and has previously threatened sanctions if Mr Brunson is not released. However, Mr Erdogan accused Washington yesterday of showing an “evangelist, Zionist mentality” and vowed not to give in to ultimatums from the US. “We will not give any credit to this type of threatening language,” Mr Erdogan told reporters in Ankara.

Last night Turkey’s foreign ministry called Washington’s action a “hostile stance” and said that it would retaliate.

Mr Brunson has denied the accusations. His next hearing is on October 12.

[ORAC]

https://www.newsweek.com/turkey-wants-arrest-american-troops-ties-terrorist-group-1065017TURKEY WANTS TO ARREST AMERICAN TROOPS FOR TIES TO 'TERRORIST GROUP
Turkish lawyers are trying to arrest a group of American soldiers based in Turkey for alleged links to a terrorist group, amid an ongoing souring of relationships between Washington and Ankara. The pro-government lawyers have filed complaints against almost a dozen personnel at the Incirlik Air Base on the country’s southern coast, Stars and Stripes (https://www.stripes.com/news/turkish-lawyers-seek-arrest-of-us-servicemembers-on-incirlik-air-base-1.541627) reported.

The 60-page complaint was issued by the Association for Social Justice and Aid, known to be supportive of Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdogan (https://www.newsweek.com/topic/recep-tayyip-erdogan). The document requested a temporary freeze on flights leaving the base—which is home to thousands of Americans—and a search warrant to allow investigators access. The group alleges the 11 soldiers are linked to Fethullah Gulen (https://www.newsweek.com/fethullah-gulen-turkey-coup-recep-tayyip-erdogan-extradition-487478), a Turkish religious leader and political figure Erdogan claims was behind a failed military coup in 2016. The lawyers argue that through their supposed ties to Gulen, the Americans have attempted to “destroy the constitutional order” of Turkey. Gulen's followers have been branded terrorists (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/31/turkey-labels-ex-erdogan-ally-fethullah-gulen-group-terrorists) by the Turkish government.

Those named include General Joseph Votel, the commander of the U.S. Central Command, retired U.S. Army General John F. Campbell and Air Force Brigadier General Rick Boutwell, director of regional affairs for the deputy undersecretary of the Air Force.

The Air Force told Stripes that all questions over the case should be referred to the Turkish government. “We continue to carry out our mission here at Incirlik Air Base, and we are proud of the relationship we have with our Turkish military partners,” said Air Force Captain Amanda Herman, spokeswoman for the base........

[ORAC]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/commandos-accused-of-taking-part-in-failed-turkish-coup-go-missing-g62v5d2kg

Commandos accused of taking part in failed Turkish coup go missing

Two Turkish commandos who sought asylum in Greece over their alleged involvement in the botched coup against President Erdogan have gone missing from police custody and may already be in the hands of Turkey, their lawyer said yesterday.

Halit Cetin and Fatih Arik fled to Greece months after their unit, the SAT special operations force, led the failed Turkish coup in July 2016. The men, dubbed “public enemy No 1” by the Turkish government, claimed political asylum and were placed in detention for 18 months for illegal entry. However, according to Stavroula Tomara, their lawyer, the men went missing on August 20, the day the detention order ran out, and may have been spirited back to Turkey in a prisoner exchange.

“I went to collect them and they were gone,” she told a Greek television channel. “I seriously doubt the two commandos are in Greece any more. They have either been bundled up and taken to a third country or deported back to Turkey. No one has the authority to transfer my clients to any secret location. They should have walked free.”

Ms Tomara alleged that her clients may have been exchanged for two Greek soldiers who were returned to Greece on August 15 after being held for five months by Turkey on suspicion of espionage. She claimed that her clients may have been taken away under duress in similar circumstances to three of their comrades, who arrived in Greece with Mr Cetin and Mr Arik but quickly disappeared. “The day [the three comrades] were arrested and requested political asylum they were taken to a local hotel,” she said. “They were served dinner and as they were eating, a team of hooded Greek commandos burst into their room, strapped them and returned them back to Turkey.”

Ms Tomara also said that the whereabouts of eight Turkish officers who arrived by helicopter after the 2016 coup attempt was unknown since they were moved from a military camp in Agios Andreas on the outskirts of Athens when wildfires razed the region last month, killing 96 people.

Theodore Chronopoulos, a senior Greek police spokesman, said that Mr Cetin and Mr Arik’s release order came through last week but the two men “were immediately taken to a secret location following a separate request they had made to the authorities for their protection”. He declined to comment on Ms Tomara’s allegations.

Thousands of Turkish citizens have fled to Greece to escape the post-coup purges of state apparatus by Mr Erdogan’s government. The asylum claims of elite Turkish commandos have strained relations between Greece and Turkey, bringing them to their lowest point since the neighbouring states came to the brink of war in 1996. Although Athens has rejected a string of extradition requests by Turkey, the government of Alexis Tsipras has billed the military defectors as “putchists”, tacitly agreeing with Turkey’s claims that they played an instrumental role in the ill-fated coup attempt.

Last week Dimitris Kammenos, an independent Greek MP, submitted a letter of inquiry to parliament demanding explanations about the fate of the Turkish commandos.

European Union and Greek law forbids extradition to a country where an alleged offender could be at the risk of torture — a claim that the two Turkish commandos and eight officers have repeatedly made.

[ORAC]

Erdogan assumes control of Turkey’s $200bn wealth fund

President Erdogan has appointed himself head of Turkey’s sovereign wealth fund, a pot of $200 billion collected from the sale of public assets......... Berat Albayrak, his son-in-law and treasury minister, will be his deputy and the fund’s management staff have all been replaced.

The fund was set up a month after the failed coup in July 2016, to provide financing for large state development projects. It has been staffed by technocrats close to Mr Erdogan but there have been internal rifts, with some arguing that its wealth should be used to try to steady the lira, which has tumbled against major currencies this year.

Traditional wealth funds derive their income from state budget surpluses, usually in resource-rich countries or those with high-export economies. Turkey has high government debt and a large trade deficit, however, so has filled the fund’s coffers through public stakes in companies such as Turkish Airlines and using profits from the privatisation of state assets.

Mr Erdogan has ignored advice to rein in spending on huge infrastructure projects and his new role indicates that he is unlikely to change tack.

[ORAC]

The Streetwise Professor....

https://streetwiseprofessor.com/when-you-strike-at-a-king-you-must-kill-him/

[layman]

"Erdogan has appointed himself head of Turkey's sovereign wealth fund"

Shades of 1MDB?

[ORAC]

I think it’s clear which way the future in Turkey will proceed. I just wonder how long arm sales will continue - and membership of NATO.....

The Times:

Erdogan and Nicolás Maduro cement alliance with ‘golden handshake’

President Erdogan has promised to build a mosque in the Venezuelan capital in a meeting with President Maduro during the first state visit of a Turkish president to the country.

The two leaders, both of whom are battling economic crises and have found themselves increasingly isolated on the world stage, met in Caracas yesterday as Mr Erdogan took a detour on his route home from the G20 summit.

Referring to Mr Maduro as “my brother”, Mr Erdogan also said that the two countries will strengthen their trade ties — a riposte to the United States, which has imposed sanctions on the increasingly erratic Venezuelan leader.

The Turkish president said that Venezuela was facing “manipulative attacks from certain countries and acts of sabotage from economic assassins” — a charge he also levelled at Washington this year when it levied sanctions against Ankara in response to the detention of Andrew Brunson, an American evangelical pastor, who has since been freed.

Bilateral trade between the two countries has risen six-fold to more than $1 billion this year. That includes huge exports of Venezuelan gold — one of the commodities under embargo — to Turkey for refining. Figures from the Turkish treasury show that $900 million of gold was imported from Venezuela in the first nine months of this year........

[ORAC]

This is getting beyond the F-35 now. Not only might they lose their Patriot, buying depending on how you read SACEUR’s words, any future cooperation and participation in exercises where any NATO F-35 is involved?

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2019/03/05/top-us-general-in-europe-dont-give-turkey-f-35-if-they-buy-russian-system/

WASHINGTON — The top uniformed officer in NATO and the head of American forces in Europe said Tuesday that if Turkey goes through with its decision to buy a Russian air defense system (https://www.defensenews.com/land/2017/11/06/turkish-procurement-saga-weighs-russian-s-400-deal-against-pleasing-the-west/), he would recommend the Pentagon refuse to give Ankara its planned purchase of the F-35 joint strike fighter.

Testifying in front of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Gen. Curtis Scaparrotti said it would be his “best military advice" that sales to Turkey of the F-35 be cut, should that nation buy the S-400 air defense system (https://www.defensenews.com/land/2018/10/26/turkey-defense-minister-announces-timeline-for-s-400-deployment/).

“If they accept the S-400 to establish it in Turkey, there is first the issue that it’s not interoperable with NATO systems, nor is it interoperable inside of our integrated missile defense system. The second has to do with the F-35. It presents a problem to all of our aircraft, but specifically the F-35, I believe,” Scaparrotti said. My best military advice would be that we don’t then follow through with the F-35 — flying it or working with an ally that is working with Russian systems, particularly air defense systems, with one of our most advanced technological capabilities,” he added........

As a result of the planned S-400 procurement, the Pentagon launched a large study into whether it would be possible to remove Turkey from the F-35 industrial base.

Asked about the industrial base, the general said: “For them I would underscore this is a huge decision for Turkey. I have talked to them, as all of our leadership has.” He added that there is a team on the ground today talking with the Turks about the issue. “I would hope they would reconsider this decision on the S-400, one system, but potentially forfeit many of the other systems and one of the most important systems we provide them," he said.

One such system besides the F-35 that could be impacted should Russia buy the S-400 is the Patriot missile defense system, which Turkey was recently cleared to buy (https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2018/12/19/turkey-cleared-by-us-for-35-billion-patriot-missile-deal-despite-s-400-row/).

[Martin the Martian]

Aren't our F-35s supposed to be undergoing depth maintenance in Turkey?

[Lonewolf_50]

Aren't our F-35s supposed to be undergoing depth maintenance in Turkey?
Suggest you contact the MoD and propose an alternate plan.
Do you really want your aircraft's long term health in those hands?

[ORAC]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/erdogan-deepens-turkey-us-rift-with-2-5bn-deal-for-russian-missile-system-bmlgcbmwk

Erdogan deepens Turkey-US rift with £2.5bn deal for Russian missile system

President Erdogan has stoked a growing row with Nato by signalling that Turkey could purchase a second Russian missile defence system, a move that would accelerate Ankara’s pivot towards Moscow and the east.

The Turkish leader said he was committed to his decision to buy the Russian S-400 system, despite repeated warnings from the US that such a move could lead to sanctions and the cancellation of Ankara’s order for 100 advanced US F-35 fighter jets. This week, Curtis Scaparrotti, the top American general in Europe, said that Nato security and US-Turkey relations would be severely compromised should Ankara purchase the Russian system.

Yet speaking in an interview with Turkish news channel Kanal 24, Mr Erdogan dismissed General Scaparrotti’s warning, and reaffirmed a pledge to purchase the $2.5 billion Russian deal and suggested that Ankara’s defence cooperation deal with Moscow could deepen even further. “The S-400 is a done deal, there can be no turning back. We will move toward a joint production. Perhaps after the S-400, we will go for the S-500,” Mr Erdogan said.......

The issue is likely to be high on the agenda when Nato’s foreign ministers gather in Washington next month, as the dispute over defence purchases threatens to widen a rift at the heart of the alliance.

Mr Erdogan is increasingly building ties with Russia (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/we-must-not-alienate-turkeys-strongman-vf972nsdf) and China as his relations with Turkey’s traditional Western allies cool. Most Turkish officers posted to Nato assignments were purged from their positions in the president’s clampdown after the 2016 coup attempt, with many claiming asylum in Europe and warning that their places are now being filled with anti-Western officers. Adnan Tanriverdi, a former one-star general who was dismissed from the Turkish army in the 1990s for his alleged Islamist sympathies, was appointed Mr Erdogan’s defence adviser soon after the coup......

[ORAC]

https://www.continentaltelegraph.com/business/dont-mess-with-markets-turkeys-stock-crash-1200-interest-rate/

Don’t Mess With Markets – Turkey’s Stock Crash, 1,200% Interest Rate

[Whenurhappy]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/erdogan-deepens-turkey-us-rift-with-2-5bn-deal-for-russian-missile-system-bmlgcbmwk

Erdogan deepens Turkey-US rift with £2.5bn deal for Russian missile system

President Erdogan has stoked a growing row with Nato by signalling that Turkey could purchase a second Russian missile defence system, a move that would accelerate Ankara’s pivot towards Moscow and the east.

The Turkish leader said he was committed to his decision to buy the Russian S-400 system, despite repeated warnings from the US that such a move could lead to sanctions and the cancellation of Ankara’s order for 100 advanced US F-35 fighter jets. This week, Curtis Scaparrotti, the top American general in Europe, said that Nato security and US-Turkey relations would be severely compromised should Ankara purchase the Russian system.

Yet speaking in an interview with Turkish news channel Kanal 24, Mr Erdogan dismissed General Scaparrotti’s warning, and reaffirmed a pledge to purchase the $2.5 billion Russian deal and suggested that Ankara’s defence cooperation deal with Moscow could deepen even further. “The S-400 is a done deal, there can be no turning back. We will move toward a joint production. Perhaps after the S-400, we will go for the S-500,” Mr Erdogan said.......

The issue is likely to be high on the agenda when Nato’s foreign ministers gather in Washington next month, as the dispute over defence purchases threatens to widen a rift at the heart of the alliance.

Mr Erdogan is increasingly building ties with Russia (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/we-must-not-alienate-turkeys-strongman-vf972nsdf) and China as his relations with Turkey’s traditional Western allies cool. Most Turkish officers posted to Nato assignments were purged from their positions in the president’s clampdown after the 2016 coup attempt, with many claiming asylum in Europe and warning that their places are now being filled with anti-Western officers. Adnan Tanriverdi, a former one-star general who was dismissed from the Turkish army in the 1990s for his alleged Islamist sympathies, was appointed Mr Erdogan’s defence adviser soon after the coup......







Adnan Tanriverdi is a nutter and his private security company is a joke. (Sadat.com.tr) I don’t think he has much traction amongst the hundreds of cronies Erdogan appointed immediately after the coup attempt. Defence Minister Hukusi Akar is very pro West, and as the recent CGS and CLF before that, commands enormous respect from the still-secular army. He is, I assess, the most powerful member of government and would be well placed to run an interim government if anything were to happen to RTE.

That’s probably why Erdogan has kept him close as an appointed Minister. Just saying...

[ORAC]

U.S. congressional committee leaders warn Turkey on F-35, S-400

(Reuters) - The leaders of the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations and Armed Services Committees warned Turkey on Tuesday that it risked tough sanctions if it pursued plans to purchase Russian S-400 missile defense systems, and they threatened further legislative action.

"By the end of the year, Turkey will have either F-35 advanced fighter aircraft on its soil or a Russian S-400 surface-to-air missile defense system. It will not have both," Republican Senators Jim Risch and Jim Inhofe and Democratic Senators Bob Menendez and Jack Reed said in a New York Times opinion column.

Risch is chairman of Foreign Relations and Menendez is ranking Democrat. Inhofe chairs Armed Services, where Reed is ranking Democrat.

[ORAC]

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2019/04/19/russia-would-be-turkeys-first-best-choice-for-fighter-jets-if-its-f-35-plan-flops/

Russia would be Turkey’s ‘first best choice’ for fighter jets if its F-35 plan flops

ANKARA, Turkey — If U.S. officials were to expel Turkey (https://www.defensenews.com/congress/budget/2019/04/10/pompeo-with-s-400-turkey-wont-get-f-35-may-get-sanctions/) from the multinational group that builds the F-35 Lightning II, Turkish defense officials said they likely would pursue Russian fighter jet technology.

“We cannot afford to leave the F-35 not substituted,” a senior military officer told Defense news. He declined to comment on the replacement options, as this would require “technological, economical and political deliberations.”

But a defense procurement official said “geostrategic assessment” would make Russian options emerge as the natural first replacement. “Russian fighter technology would the first best choice if our American allies (https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2019/04/03/trump-may-take-care-of-f-35-s-400-issue-turkish-official-claims/) behaved in an un-allied way and questioned Turkey’s membership in the Joint Strike Fighter program,” he said.........

Earlier this month, the Pentagon announced a freeze on deliveries and activities with Turkey in relation to the F-35 program over Ankara’s decision to buy the S-400. Turkey insists the first S-400 shipments would arrive in July and the first S-400 system would become operational in September.

A Turkish presidential source said that potential Turkish-Russian cooperation on fighter technology was “preliminarily discussed” between their respective defense officials during Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s visit to Moscow on April 8.

Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Çavusoglu told broadcaster NTV on Apri 10: “There are F-35[s], but there are also aircraft manufactured in Russia. If we are not able to purchase [the] F-35, Turkey will buy similar aircraft from other countries. And this will continue until we start producing our own fifth-generation fighter jets.”.........





Washington has threatened to expel Ankara from the multinational program if Turkey deploys the Russian-made S-400 surface-to-air missile system on its soil.

[ORAC]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/20/turkey-insists-on-right-to-drill-for-energy-reserves-off-cyprus

Turkey insists on right to drill for energy reserves off Cyprus

Tensions over energy resources in the eastern Mediterranean have risen sharply after Turkey (https://www.theguardian.com/world/turkey) said it would “exercise its sovereign rights” to drill off Cyprus in flagrant defiance of warnings from western allies.

As the dispute over potential gas reserves (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/25/cyprus-gas-field-find-raises-prospect-fresh-tension-turkey-exxonmobil) intensified, Ankara insisted its state-of-the-art drilling ship, the Fatih, and its support vessels would begin operations in waters viewed by the EU as being within the island’s exclusive economic zone.

“Turkey does not recognise the unilateral and illegitimate exclusive economic zone claims of the Greek Cypriots,” its foreign minister, Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu, announced in a letter released by the state-run Anadolu news agency. “Third parties should refrain in taking sides in overlapping maritime boundary claims and they should not act as if they are in a court in rendering judgement on bilateral maritime boundaries.”

Despite international condemnation, the ships, escorted by a naval frigate, have been deployed 39 nautical miles off the divided island’s western coast for the past week. The closest Turkish shore lies almost 80 nautical miles away. But Ankara, which refuses to recognise Cyprus (https://www.theguardian.com/world/cyprus) – instead acknowledging the self-proclaimed Turkish republic in the north – argues the region is part of its own continental shelf and, as such, it is complying with international law. It is a stance that, increasingly, has put the Nato country at odds with allies.

On Sunday a senior Cypriot official said Nicosia will issue international and European arrest warrants “for all involved” if, as looked likely, drilling did take place.

Earlier this month, the EU’s policy chief, Federica Mogherini, expressed “grave concern” over Turkey’s intentions. In a statement that highlighted growing alarm at the sabre-rattling, she hinted that sanctions could follow if Ankara did not heed the bloc’s warnings. “We urgently call on Turkey to show restraint, respect the sovereign rights of Cyprus in its exclusive economic zone [EEZ] and refrain from any such action to which the European Union (https://www.theguardian.com/world/eu) will respond appropriately and in full solidarity with Cyprus.” The European council president, Donald Tusk, said Brussels was closely monitoring the situation. “We stand united behind Cyprus,” he said of the island, the EU’s most easterly member state.

Any exploration would not only escalate tensions dramatically but increase fears of a “hot incident” with repercussions across a region where the race to tap underwater spoils (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/28/huge-gas-discovery-off-cyprus-could-boost-eu-energy-security) is becoming ever more intense........

The escalating dispute comes less than a week after Turkey launched its largest-ever naval exercise, Operation Seawolf, with more than 130 warships in the region. Much of the naval deployment is set to occur in waters close to the island. “Our aim … is to show that the Turkish armed forces are extremely determined, committed and capable of ensuring the security, sovereignty, independence, maritime rights and benefits of Turkey,” said the country’s defence minister, Hulusi Akar.......

Cyprus, which lacks a navy, is not a member of the alliance but has launched a far-reaching diplomatic initiative to shore up solidarity among partners. Stepping up those efforts, officials confirmed the president, Nicos Anastasiades, had sent a letter at the weekend to the British prime minister, Theresa May, protesting about “unacceptable” comments that cast doubt over the island’s sovereignty of the area where Turkey intends to push ahead with the drilling. The UK’s stance is at odds with every other EU member state, they said. Anastasiades said he will raise the issue with Michel Barnier, the EU’s Brexit negotiator, when he visits Nicosia on Monday.

[Lonewolf_50]

The Cypriots might want to invest in some old tech called "mines" and see how this works out.

[etudiant]

The Cypriots might want to invest in some old tech called "mines" and see how this works out.

Easier to start fires than to put them out.....

[ORAC]

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/06/07/turkish-suppliers-to-be-eliminated-from-f-35-program-in-2020/

Turkish suppliers to be eliminated from F-35 program in 2020

WASHINGTON — The Pentagon is preparing to transfer Turkey’s industrial participation in the F-35 to other countries unless Ankara reverses course on its plans to buy the Russian S-400 air defense system. (https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2019/04/02/turkeys-marriage-of-f-35-and-s-400-absolutely-unsustainable-says-eucom-nominee/)

The move — which in early 2020 would end contracts with major Turkish defense contractors such as Turkish Aerospace Industries, Roketsan and Tusas Engine Industries, among many others — is just one of many steps the U.S. Defense Department intends to take to strip Turkey from the F-35 program (https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2019/04/09/top-us-lawmakers-demand-turkey-choose-between-americas-f-35-and-russias-s-400/), according to a June 6 letter from acting Defense Secretary Patrick Shanahan.

The training of Turkish F-35 pilots at Luke Air Force Base in Arizona and of Turkish maintainers at Eglin Air Force Base, Florida, will also end, Shanahan wrote, and U.S. military exercises in Turkey are in jeopardy.......

Turkey, a partner in the F-35 program that helped fund the development of the jet, plans to buy 100 F-35As. Its first jet was rolled out in June 2018 in a festive “delivery ceremony,” but although Turkey formally owns its jets, the United States has the power to keep the planes from moving to Turkish soil and intends to keep all four existing Turkish jets from leaving the United States. Lord told reporters that the Pentagon is still deciding what it will do with Turkey’s jets (https://www.defensenews.com/smr/nato-priorities/2018/06/21/turkey-gets-first-f-35-as-congress-put-pressure-on-pentagon-to-stop-future-deliveries/). One option would be to buy the aircraft and repurpose them for the U.S. Air Force, but no official decision has been made.

Turkish companies are responsible for 937 parts used to build the F-35, with 400 of those sole-sourced from Turkish firms, Lord said. Existing contracts would go through a “disciplined and graceful wind down” period in “early 2020,” Lord said. “If we can work to our timelines with the Turks, we would have no major disruptions and very few delays (https://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/12/04/no-devastating-impact-to-f-35-industrial-base-if-turkey-pushed-from-program-air-force-official-says/),” she said. Vice Adm. Mat Winter, the F-35’s program executive, said in April that 50-75 aircraft could be delayed over a two-year period if Turkey is removed from the program, according to Breaking Defense (https://breakingdefense.com/2019/04/f-35-production-hurt-if-turkey-kicked-out-of-program-vice-adm-winter/). But Lord said those disruptions would occur only if the Pentagon terminated its supply chain agreements this summer.

Ultimately, prime contractors Lockheed Martin and Pratt & Whitney will make the decisions on which subcontractors replace the Turkish vendors (https://www.defensenews.com/industry/2019/04/23/the-us-air-force-not-turkey-is-frustrating-lockheed-execs-on-the-f-35-program/), but the Pentagon has identified new suppliers that could step up and make the parts currently sole-sourced by Turkey. “They are predominantly U.S. sources. That’s not to say that we won’t continue to do what we always do with program management and look for other sources, because we would like to have second, third sources for most of the items,” she said.

The Defense Department has already stopped material deliveries to Turkey, halting the buildup of an engine overhaul facility that was planned to be built in and operated by Turkey. “There are two other European MRO&Us [maintenance, repair, overhaul and upgrade facilities] that can absorb the volume with no issue whatsoever,” Lord said.

Despite Turkey’s industrial role in the program, Lord said she was confident that all important technical information would stay secure. “We control what is downloaded from our computers. We have shared what's appropriate. The Turks have no critical documentation that we're concerned about,” she said........

[ORAC]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-07-01/turkey-stockpiles-crucial-arms-parts-anticipating-u-s-sanctions

Turkey Stockpiles Crucial Weapons Parts, Anticipating U.S. Sanctions

[tdracer]

It appears things are getting even worse:

Last week, though his military forces are deeply engaged in next-door Syria's ruinous civil war, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan threatened to launch a military campaign in another former Turkish Ottoman Empire colonial possession: Libya.

https://strategypage.com/on_point/2019070375644.aspx

[Whenurhappy]

It appears things are getting even worse:



https://strategypage.com/on_point/2019070375644.aspx
a particular poor and inaccurate article. Turkey has supported different factions there and has been particularly active in intercepting arms shipments, in cooperation with European agencies.

Recep Tayyip Erdogan is not sending Forces in to Libya; advisors at best. The Turkish Forces (TSK) are massively overstretched and Syria needs to be resolved before the Turks go all expeditionary. They had enough difficulties in sustaining forces just 10s of km into Syria.

And the throw-away comment in the article that his name is Sultan Recep is both inaccurate and mendacious. It would be the same as labelling anyone with the name George, William, James, Henry as “King”.

[ORAC]

https://www.dailysabah.com/defense/2019/07/06/s-400s-reportedly-to-be-loaded-on-planes-in-russia-on-sunday

S-400s reportedly to be loaded on planes in Russia on Sunday

The first of the Russian S-400 air missile defense systems that Ankara has purchased will be loaded on to cargo planes on Sunday and are expected to arrive in Turkey sometime next week, Turkish Habertürk daily reported.

The initial S-400 delivery will be sent on two cargo planes from a Russian military air base, Habertürk said without citing a source. It also reported that a Russian technical team that would oversee its installation is expected to arrive in Turkey by Monday........

[Harley Quinn]

https://www.dailysabah.com/defense/2019/07/06/s-400s-reportedly-to-be-loaded-on-planes-in-russia-on-sunday

S-400s reportedly to be loaded on planes in Russia on Sunday

The first of the Russian S-400 air missile defense systems that Ankara has purchased will be loaded on to cargo planes on Sunday and are expected to arrive in Turkey sometime next week, Turkish Habertürk daily reported.

The initial S-400 delivery will be sent on two cargo planes from a Russian military air base, Habertürk said without citing a source. It also reported that a Russian technical team that would oversee its installation is expected to arrive in Turkey by Monday........



Let's see how long it takes them to get that little lot past Turkish Customs.

[phil9560]

At first glance I thought this was a thread about what my dear departed Mum made with Christmas leftovers :rolleyes:

[Stuart Sutcliffe]

At first glance I thought this was a thread about what my dear departed Mum made with Christmas leftovers :rolleyes:
No, that is turkey hotpot. 😂

[weemonkey]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/20/turkey-insists-on-right-to-drill-for-energy-reserves-off-cyprus

Turkey insists on right to drill for energy reserves off Cyprus

Tensions over energy resources in the eastern Mediterranean have risen sharply after Turkey (https://www.theguardian.com/world/turkey) said it would “exercise its sovereign rights” to drill off Cyprus in flagrant defiance of warnings from western allies.

As the dispute over potential gas reserves (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/25/cyprus-gas-field-find-raises-prospect-fresh-tension-turkey-exxonmobil) intensified, Ankara insisted its state-of-the-art drilling ship, the Fatih, and its support vessels would begin operations in waters viewed by the EU as being within the island’s exclusive economic zone.

“Turkey does not recognise the unilateral and illegitimate exclusive economic zone claims of the Greek Cypriots,” its foreign minister, Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu, announced in a letter released by the state-run Anadolu news agency. “Third parties should refrain in taking sides in overlapping maritime boundary claims and they should not act as if they are in a court in rendering judgement on bilateral maritime boundaries.”

Despite international condemnation, the ships, escorted by a naval frigate, have been deployed 39 nautical miles off the divided island’s western coast for the past week. The closest Turkish shore lies almost 80 nautical miles away. But Ankara, which refuses to recognise Cyprus (https://www.theguardian.com/world/cyprus) – instead acknowledging the self-proclaimed Turkish republic in the north – argues the region is part of its own continental shelf and, as such, it is complying with international law. It is a stance that, increasingly, has put the Nato country at odds with allies.

On Sunday a senior Cypriot official said Nicosia will issue international and European arrest warrants “for all involved” if, as looked likely, drilling did take place.

Earlier this month, the EU’s policy chief, Federica Mogherini, expressed “grave concern” over Turkey’s intentions. In a statement that highlighted growing alarm at the sabre-rattling, she hinted that sanctions could follow if Ankara did not heed the bloc’s warnings. “We urgently call on Turkey to show restraint, respect the sovereign rights of Cyprus in its exclusive economic zone [EEZ] and refrain from any such action to which the European Union (https://www.theguardian.com/world/eu) will respond appropriately and in full solidarity with Cyprus.” The European council president, Donald Tusk, said Brussels was closely monitoring the situation. “We stand united behind Cyprus,” he said of the island, the EU’s most easterly member state.

Any exploration would not only escalate tensions dramatically but increase fears of a “hot incident” with repercussions across a region where the race to tap underwater spoils (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/28/huge-gas-discovery-off-cyprus-could-boost-eu-energy-security) is becoming ever more intense........

The escalating dispute comes less than a week after Turkey launched its largest-ever naval exercise, Operation Seawolf, with more than 130 warships in the region. Much of the naval deployment is set to occur in waters close to the island. “Our aim … is to show that the Turkish armed forces are extremely determined, committed and capable of ensuring the security, sovereignty, independence, maritime rights and benefits of Turkey,” said the country’s defence minister, Hulusi Akar.......

Cyprus, which lacks a navy, is not a member of the alliance but has launched a far-reaching diplomatic initiative to shore up solidarity among partners. Stepping up those efforts, officials confirmed the president, Nicos Anastasiades, had sent a letter at the weekend to the British prime minister, Theresa May, protesting about “unacceptable” comments that cast doubt over the island’s sovereignty of the area where Turkey intends to push ahead with the drilling. The UK’s stance is at odds with every other EU member state, they said. Anastasiades said he will raise the issue with Michel Barnier, the EU’s Brexit negotiator, when he visits Nicosia on Monday.

Interesting that a s200 apparently made it to northern cyprus then....

[ORAC]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/11/turkey-rejects-claims-drilling-illegally-gas-off-cyprus

Turkey rejects claims it is drilling illegally for gas off Cyprus

Turkey (https://www.theguardian.com/world/turkey) has hit back at Greek and EU officials, denying claims it is acting illegally by drilling for gas in waters off Cyprus.

The country’s foreign ministry criticised EU condemnation of its efforts to tap the region for potentially lucrative energy resources, saying the bloc could not be considered an impartial mediator for the divided island. In a statement that will cause dismay in Brussels, Ankara vowed to press ahead with offshore exploration to safeguard the rights of Turkish Cypriots to the offshore resources.

Tensions over hydrocarbons escalated sharply after the discovery of possibly huge gas reserves (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/28/huge-gas-discovery-off-cyprus-could-boost-eu-energy-security) off Cyprus, where there are conflicting claims over territorial waters. The Turkish president, Recep Tayyip Erdo (https://www.theguardian.com/world/recep-tayyip-erdogan)
ğan (https://www.theguardian.com/world/recep-tayyip-erdogan), has repeatedly warned international oil companies commissioned by the Greek Cypriot government not to participate in the search for underwater deposits. ExxonMobil, Total and Eni are among the firms that have won licences to search in blocks around the island. Last year Turkish gunboats were dispatched (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/22/turkey-to-send-drill-ship-to-contested-gas-field-off-cyprus) to prevent Eni, an Italian oil company, from conducting drilling operations.

On Wednesday Ankara dug in its heels, pledging a second drilling vessel, the Yavuz, would expand exploration activities. The ship dropped anchor off the island’s north-eastern Karpas peninsula on Monday. ts arrival came two months after another ship, the Fatih, began drilling off Cyprus’s west coast escorted by a frigate.

In Athens, Ankara and Nicosia, diplomats fear the showdown could trigger military confrontation, and worry Erdoğan may be looking for a showdown to divert attention from domestic troubles........

Ankara insists it is acting within its own continental shelf or in territorial waters where Turkish Cypriots would also be entitled to an equal share of any finds. Its determination to press ahead with drilling follows Nicosia’s decision to take legal action, with arrest warrants issued for the crew of Fatih........

Last month the EU threatened economic sanctions against Ankara.

On Tuesday, Washington urged all parties to exercise restraint. “The United States remains deeply concerned by Turkey’s repeated attempts to conduct drilling operations in the waters of Cyprus,” the state department said in a statement. “We urge Turkish authorities to halt these operations and encourage all parties to act with restraint and refrain from actions that increase tensions in the region.”

Brussels also voiced “grave concern” over Turkey’s declared intention “to illegally conduct” a new drilling operation off the island. In a statement on Monday the EU’s foreign policy chief, Federica Mogherini, pledged the bloc would continue to stand by its most easterly member, describing the dispatch of the second drilling ship as an “unacceptable escalation”.

“We call on Turkish authorities, once again, to refrain from such actions, act in a spirit of good neighbourliness and respect the sovereignty and sovereign right of the Republic of Cyprus in accordance with international law,” she said. “The European Union (https://www.theguardian.com/world/eu) will respond appropriately and in full solidarity with Cyprus.”

France also stepped in this week, calling on Turkey to avoid any action that would endanger regional stability. Ankara and Paris have been at loggerheads over the issue since the French president, Emmanuel Macron, came out in support of Cyprus at a meeting of heads of EU Mediterranean states last month.

“We want to take the road of calm. We want to resolve this peacefully between Greece (https://www.theguardian.com/world/greece), Turkey and Cyprus,” said one EU ambassador based in Athens. “That’s what we want, but frankly, who knows?”

[ORAC]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-security-russia-idUSKCN1U7116

Russia confirms it has started delivery of S-400 missile systems to Turkey

Reuters) - Russia's Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation confirmed on Friday it had started delivering S-400 missile defense systems to Turkey and that the deliveries would continue as per an agreed schedule, the RIA news agency reported.

The Turkish defense ministry said earlier on Friday that the first parts of a Russian S-400 missile defense system had been delivered, a development set to escalate tensions with the United States which has warned of sanctions over the deal.


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/799x532/image_11ebeb9b599fd776f66671a1811d6ac6780114e2.jpeg

[ORAC]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-07-12/eu-to-cut-the-flow-of-funds-to-turkey-as-drilling-spat-heats-upEU to Cut the Flow of Funds to Turkey as Drilling Spat Heats UpThe European Union is poised to freeze most high-level contacts with Turkey and cut the flow of funds to the country, while holding back for now on sanctions that could target Turkish companies involved in offshore drilling in the eastern Mediterranean.

EU diplomats have agreed on the wording of a draft decision due to be formally adopted by the bloc’s foreign ministers on Monday, two officials familiar with the talks said. The draft calls for suspending negotiations on an aviation agreement with Ankara, halting scheduled ministerial meetings, reducing aid and inviting the European Investment Bank to review sovereign-backed lending to Turkey.

The bloc will also reiterate that it’s working on targeted sanctions in light of Turkey’s continuing controversial drilling practices, according to the final draft of the communique seen by Bloomberg. The statement was agreed on Friday afternoon after several rounds of redrafting, and it will be rubber-stamped by EU ambassadors on Monday before ministers sign off later in the day.......

Despite renewed tensions in the Mediterranean, the EU is wary of an escalation that would risk a landmark 2016 migration agreement, under which Turkey stemmed the bulk of refugee flows to Europe in exchange for financial assistance. Even though options for targeted sanctions were mandated by the bloc’s leaders last month, they are not being activated at this stage.

An EU diplomat said the bloc in its Monday decision will seek a balance between sending a clear message to Ankara and agreeing on measures that won’t harm the interests of EU nations or cut all ties with Turkey. The EU wants to keep some lines of communication open in areas such as migration and terrorism, the diplomat said, asking not to be named discussing sensitive issues.

[ORAC]

https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon/2019/07/12/turkey-has-the-s-400-the-trump-administration-is-silent/

Turkey has the S-400. The Trump administration is silent.

WASHINGTON — After months of threatening quick, severe action (https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/06/13/there-are-turkish-jets-in-the-pentagons-latest-f-35-deal-heres-why-thats-not-a-big-problem/) against Turkey should Ankara accept the Russian-made S-400 air defense system, the Trump administration has yet to react to the delivery of the weapon system.

A Turkish Defense Ministry statement early Friday said “the first group of equipment” of the S-400 air defense systems reached the Murted Air Base (https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/2019/07/12/despite-us-warnings-russian-s-400-systems-land-in-turkey/) near Ankara on Thursday evening. The delivery of parts of the system will continue in the coming days and authorities will decide “how it will be used” once the system is made operational, Turkey’s defense industry authority said in a statement.

The Pentagon initially called an 11:15 AM press briefing to discuss the S-400 retaliation. It was then switched to 1:45, then postponed indefinitely. A defense official told reporters that Acting Secretary of Defense Mark Esper spoke with his Turkish counterpart for half an hour during the afternoon, but said there will be no readout from the call. There has been no statement issued from the White House or State Department......

Gen. Mark Milley, Trump’s choice to be the next chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, said in written testimony to the Senate Thursday that “my recommendation would be to discontinue the transfer of F-35 aircraft to Turkey and unwind Turkey from the F-35 program if Turkey accepts delivery of the S-400. The S-400 is a Russian system built to shoot down aircraft like the F-35.”........

While the administration has yet to respond, Congressional leaders were vocal Friday. In a joint statement Friday afternoon, the bipartisan leadership of the Senate defense and foreign relations committees said “there must be consequences” for Turkey accepting the S-400. “We urge President Trump to fully implement sanctions as required by law under the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act,” they said in the statement. “Additionally, while all F-35 material deliveries remain indefinitely suspended, we call on the Department of Defense to proceed with the termination of Turkey’s participation in the F-35 program.”........

The U.S. actions against Turkey with the F-35 are a bilateral issue, but questions now arise about how the S-400 delivery will impact the relationship between Ankara and NATO.

Jim Townsend, a former deputy assistant secretary of defense for Europe now with the Center for a New American Security, noted that there are often political disagreements inside the NATO alliance. But the potential of the S-400 fight is a different level that “actually undercuts” the alliance military capability, he said. “This isn’t something you can negotiate around,” Townsend said. “This is a big deal, where action has to be taken. It will confront NATO with a political problem that is pretty unique, in the sense of, what do you do with a NATO ally that has taken actions to weaken the military capability of the alliance? How do you deal with that?”

But while the alliance may be getting caught in the “frag pattern” of the fight between the U.S. and Turkey, Townsend also sees it as unlikely that Turkey would leave the alliance, nor be pushed out (legally, NATO experts say, there is no mechanism to force a state out of the alliance.) And he sees a potential path forward where Turkey can claim a political victory while walking back the S-400 purchase, if the U.S. and other allies will allow it: that Turkey accepts the S-400 deliveries but leaves everything crated up in a warehouse while reopening U.S. negotiations, eventually leading to an agreement with the S-400 never set up.

“Delivery is starting. It hasn’t ended yet. Once delivery is done, these things will stay in crates until Russian technicians come in to help set it up. Then the Turkish forces need training. So there are a lot of steps for this,” Townsend said. “NATO has to come up with something that helps Erdogen get out of this corner. And the question is, will NATO be patient, or will they be too mad?”

[ORAC]

https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2019/07/16/trump-cuts-off-f-35-for-turkey-and-lawmakers-say-sanctions-are-coming/

Lawmakers say Trump is locked into Turkey sanctions

Lawmakers said the law is very clear: Trump has no choice but to sanction its NATO ally.

[SASless]

No F-35's to Turkey.

Are there not a handful of Turkish F-35's inside the USA currently?

What happens to them?


https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/07/17/no-deal-trump-cancels-sale-of-u-s-f-35-fighter-jets-to-turkey/

[ORAC]

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/07/17/turkey-officially-kicked-out-of-f-35-program/

Turkey officially kicked out of F-35 program, costing US half a billion dollars

WASHINGTON — The U.S. has removed Turkey from the F-35 joint strike fighter program, and Turkey will lose its production work (https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/06/07/turkish-suppliers-to-be-eliminated-from-f-35-program-in-2020/) on the jet by March 2020, following its acceptance of the S-400 Russian-made air defense system last Friday (https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon/2019/07/12/turkey-has-the-s-400-the-trump-administration-is-silent/). However, a top Pentagon official would not close the door on Turkey rejoining the program (https://www.defensenews.com/industry/2019/04/23/the-us-air-force-not-turkey-is-frustrating-lockheed-execs-on-the-f-35-program/)in some form, should it reverse the decision to buy the S-400.

The White House issued a statement Wednesday confirming the move, which Washington had threatened for months.

“Turkey’s decision to purchase Russian S-400 air defense systems renders its continued involvement with the F-35 impossible,” the White House statement read. “The F-35 cannot coexist with a Russian intelligence collection platform that will be used to learn about its advanced capabilities. Turkey has been a longstanding and trusted partner and NATO Ally for over 65 years, but accepting the S-400 undermines the commitments all NATO Allies made to each other to move away from Russian systems," the statement continued.

Shortly after the statement was released, the Pentagon held a rare on-camera press conference to explain the process moving forward, with Undersecretary of Defense for Acquisition Ellen Lord and Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for Policy David Trachtenberg. “Turkey cannot field a Russian intelligence collection platform in proximity to where the F-35 program makes repairs, and houses the F-35,” Lord said. “Much of the F-35′s strength lies in its stealth capabilities, so the ability to detect those capabilities would jeopardize the long term security of the F-35 program. We seek only to protect the long term security of the F-35 program.”..........

Lord avoided saying that the door was shut on Turkey returning to the program should the S-400 be removed from its soil and repeatedly used the term “suspension” to characterize Turkey’s status in the F-35 program. When asked twice whether Turkey could be welcomed back if the situation changes, Lord did not give a direct answer one way or the other. “At this point, the Turks have made a decision. We have said the F-35 and S-400 are incompatible. We will work forward at this point to unwind the relationship," she said.

All Turkish F-35 personnel have been informed they must leave the U.S. by July 31, including 20 individuals assigned to the Joint Program Office. Neither official would comment on if any of those individuals have requested asylum.

By March 2020, Turkey’s industrial participation in the F-35 program, which includes production on about 900 parts for the stealthy fighter, will be “unwound." Lord said the projection is this will cost Turkey’s economy around $9 billion over the life of the program. American suppliers will initially fill those production roles, but the goal is to eventually farm some of it out to other partners. Lord said the process will have “minimal” impacts on the larger F-35 program because of the planning that has already gone on for several months.

To move the production from Turkey to the U.S. will require between $500-$600 million in nonrecurring engineering costs, Lord said. Which partners, if any, would be willing to buy the F-35s already in production for Turkey was still being worked out.

Trachtenberg consistently delivered the same message over and over: that this situation is not one that should impact the broader NATO alliance. That includes Turkey’s participation in NATO exercises, particularly upcoming events in Georgia, Germany and Ukraine. Asked several times how Turkey having an air-defense system that cannot be linked to other NATO systems and could be used to spy on NATO jets would not harm alliance cohesion, Trachtenberg repeatedly said the relationship between Turkey, the U.S. and NATO will be able to continue.

In a statement, Lockheed Martin, the prime contractor on the F-35 program, said, “This is a government-to-government matter, and as always, we are following official U.S. Government guidance as it relates to delivery of the F-35 to Turkey and the export of goods from the Turkish supply chain. Over the last several months we’ve been working to establish alternative sources of supply in the United States to quickly accommodate Turkey’s current contributions to the program. These actions will limit any future production or sustainment impact and we remain on track to meet our commitment of delivering 131 F-35s this year,” the statement added.

[West Coast]

I do hope the nukes at Incirlik (if the media and Canadian Senator are to be believed) have or will soon be moved out of country.

[ORAC]

https://mobile.twitter.com/babaktaghvaee/status/1152176130914496512

Production of T129 ATAK helicopters for #Turkey (https://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/Turkey?src=hashtag_click)'s Gendarmerie General Command & #Pakistan (https://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/Pakistan?src=hashtag_click) Army Aviation is now stopped in #Turkish (https://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/Turkish?src=hashtag_click) Aerospace Industries (#HAI (https://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/HAI?src=hashtag_click)) facility due to the fact that Rolls Royce has stopped delivering LHTEC CTS800-4A turboshaft engines for T129.

[ORAC]

https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2019/07/turkey-syria-united-states-will-erdogan-risk-new-operation.html

Will Erdogan risk an operation in Syria?

The crisis between Turkey and the United States over Ankara’s purchase of Russian S-400 (https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2019/07/russia-turkey-s400-us-technology.html) air defense systems may have pushed the Turkish threat of a military incursion into northern Syria against the Kurdish Peoples’ Protection Units (YPG) into the background for a time. The topic, however, is back on the agenda as Ankara beefs up its military presence along the Syrian border, leading to fresh speculation (https://www.dailysabah.com/war-on-terror/2019/07/12/turkeys-huge-deployment-signals-extensive-offensive-east-of-euphrates) that an operation by Turkey is imminent.

There is also a sense of urgency on the Turkish side after Britain and France responded positively to President Donald Trump’s call to send troops to lands held by the YPG with US support. Multiple reports since November have also indicated that the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia have sent troops to the region to assist US forces, pouring more fuel on Ankara’s sense of urgency.......

There is also growing speculation that links the start of deliveries of the S-400s to Turkey (https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2019/07/turkey-russia-united-states-s400-how-ankara-handles-crisis.html) last week — and the threat of US sanctions because of this — with a cross-border operation east of the Euphrates.

Bulent Aydemir, who heads the Ankara office of the popular daily Haberturk, said the S-400s will be activated (https://www.haberturk.com/firat-in-dogusuna-operasyonun-eli-kulaginda-2503501) in 1 to 1½ months and provide security for Turkey’s next operation in Syria — which, he said, “is just around the corner.” “Together with the S-400s it will be out of the question to prevent a Turkish operation against [YPG] targets east of the Euphrates with the threat of US sanctions,” Aydemir wrote.........

[etudiant]

The Chinese are surely smiling.
Turkey is too far away for them to do much, but they will be able to highlight the real price the US exacts when one purchases US arms.
Meanwhile, the US military provide the security for Chinese entrepreneurs and capitalists to put South East Asia and Africa into debtors prison.
Seems very poor strategy for the US.

[Helix Von Smelix]

Was it cheaper for Turkey to buy the S-400 system than pay a financial penalty to leave the F-35 project?

[flyhardmo]

www.timesofisrael.com/israel-reportedly-lobbied-washington-to-drop-turkey-from-f-35-program/


Israel reportedly lobbied Washington to drop Turkey from F-35 programOfficials from Jerusalem said to have pressured Washington behind the scenes to exclude Ankara from fighter jet program in bid to preserve military qualitative edgeBy TOI staff (https://www.timesofisrael.com/writers/times-of-israel-staff/)Today, 9:06 am
https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2019/07/WhatsApp_Image_2019-07-14_at_19.36.42-640x400.jpegIsrael worked behind the scenes to ensure the United States blocked the sale of its F-35 stealth fighter jets to Turkey as part of its efforts to preserve its military qualitative edge in the region, Channel 12 reported Wednesday.

Israel in recent months lobbied Washington to drop Ankara from the F-35 program after President Recep Tayyip Erdogan went ahead with a purchase of a Russian-made missile defense system that would give Turkey advanced air capabilities.

Washington said the S-400 missile defense batteries would compromise the F-35 program and aid Russian intelligence. Channel 12 reported that Israeli officials were similarly concerned that details of the aircraft’s advanced capabilities would leak to neighboring countries.

Get The Times of Israel's Daily Edition by email and never miss our top stories (safari-reader://www.timesofisrael.com/signup/?utm_source=toi-articles&utm_medium=middle-link&utm_campaign=signup-buttons)
Free Sign Up (safari-reader://www.timesofisrael.com/signup/?utm_source=toi-articles&utm_medium=middle-link&utm_campaign=signup-buttons)

In a major break with a longtime ally, US President Donald Trump earlier this month announced that Ankara was being kicked out of the F-35 program for purchasing the Russian-made system.

The White House said the American fighter jet program “cannot coexist with a Russian intelligence collection platform that will be used to learn about its advanced capabilities.”https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2019/07/AP19193497789232-640x400.jpgMilitary vehicles and equipment, parts of the S-400 air defense systems, are unloaded from a Russian transport aircraft at Murted military airport in Ankara, Turkey, July 12, 2019. (Turkish Defense Ministry via AP, Pool)
Turkey — which had ordered more than 100 of the F-35s for some $1.4 billion — dismissed claims the Russian system would be a danger to the American warplanes, and urged Washington to reverse its decision.

The fifth-generation F-35 has been lauded as a “game-changer” by the military, not only for its offensive and stealth capabilities, but for its ability to connect its systems with other aircraft and form an information-sharing network.

Israel has agreed to purchase at least 50 F-35 fighter jets from the US defense contractor Lockheed Martin. So far, 16 aircraft have been delivered, and the remaining planes are slated to arrive batches of twos and threes until 2024.

Israel is the second country after the US to receive the F-35 from Lockheed Martin and one of the few allowed to modify the state-of-the-art aircraft, known in Israel as the Adir.

In 2018, the Israeli Air Force revealed it had used the F-35 operationally — including at least once over Lebanon — making it the first military in the world to do so.

[ORAC]

https://www.defensenews.com/opinion/commentary/2019/07/29/a-last-chance-for-turkey-there-could-still-be-time-to-fix-the-s-400-issue/A last chance for Turkey? There could still be time to fix the S-400 issue
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-07-26/turkey-may-have-to-rethink-order-for-boeing-planes-erdogan-says?srnd=premium-middle-eastTurkey May Rethink Boeing Plane Orders, Erdogan Says

[ORAC]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/three-dead-as-turkish-convoy-is-bombed-in-idlib-9bxh38wl9

Three dead as Turkish convoy is bombed in Idlib

Airstrikes on a Turkish military convoy shortly after it crossed into Syria have killed three civilians and wounded 12 others, Ankara said.

Syrian state media reported the Turkish convoy to be heading across the border this morning to deliver weapons to rebels in Jisr al-Shughur, a town in Idlib province (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/syrian-rebels-turn-tables-on-regime-as-it-assaults-idlib-tdpmb0tg2) which is controlled by extremist factions linked to al-Qaeda. Hours later,

Turkish state media reported that a convoy had been hit as it travelled to one of the 12 military observation outposts that Ankara has set up in Idlib province, under negotiations it has been holding with Russia, President Assad’s sponsor, since 2017.

The Turkish defence ministry said that three civilians had been killed and 12 others wounded.

The attack could have been carried out by either Syrian regime or Russian jets, both of which are launching fierce bombardments of Idlib as Assad seeks to retake one of the last rebel bastions in his country.

In its report shortly before the attack, Sana, Syria’s state news wire, reported that the convoy was carrying weapons to an al-Qaeda-linked faction, “affirming again the continued unlimited support provided by the Turkish regime to the terrorist groups”. An official from the Foreign and Expatriates Ministry added in their statement to Sana that Syria “holds the Turkish Regime fully responsible for the consequences”.

A video of the strike aired on Al Masdar, a Lebanese pro-Assad channel, shows a Syrian jet strike close to a convoy.

The report claims it was hit accidentally in a strike on militants.....

[ORAC]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/syrian-forces-surround-turkish-military-base-rrlpdwqpgSyrian forces surround Turkish military base
Assad regime forces have encircled a Turkish military observation post, setting up a tense standoff as they continue to press into rebel-held territory in the northwest of Syria.

Syrian state media said that government troops seized the villages of Latamneh, Latmeen, Kfar Zeita and Lahaya today, along with the village of Morek, where Turkey maintains its military post, closing a rebel pocket of control in southern Idlib province. The army’s recent gains (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/syrian-rebels-give-up-key-stronghold-after-months-of-bombing-fp8zbtl2z) also include parts of the northern Hama countryside that had been under rebel control since 2012, according to the UK-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights. Government forces are stationed on high points east of Morek, it added.

The Turkish observation post is one of 12 established as part of a “buffer zone” deal between Syria’s ally Russia and Ankara, which has long provided weapons and training to various opposition factions.

On Monday an airstrike hit close to a Turkish convoy heading for Morek. Mevlut Cavusoglu, the foreign minister, warned Damascus “not to play with fire” and said that Ankara would “do whatever is necessary to ensure the security of our soldiers and observation posts”. With no land route into or out of the encircled post, it is not yet clear how that could now be accomplished.....

[Lonewolf_50]

Ball's in Erdogan's court.
Does he blink?

[ORAC]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/putin-offers-erdogan-his-stealth-fighters-97l9gxdnh

Putin offers Erdogan his stealth fighters

President Putin confirmed yesterday that Russia is ready to sell Turkey its Su-57 stealth fighters, which could push relations between the buyer and its fellow Nato members to breaking point.

Mr Putin (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/topic/vladimir-putin) made the comment while accompanying President Erdogan to the Maks-2019 international air show near Moscow. The leaders inspected the cockpit of a fifth generation Su-57, after which Mr Erdogan inquired if the aircraft were available for purchase. “You can buy,” a smiling Mr Putin replied. The Russian president later hailed what he said were growing opportunities for arms sales to Turkey, which has also expressed an interest in Russia’s Su-35 fighter jets.......

Russian analysts said it was likely that Turkey would now step up its purchases of Russian weaponry in defiance of Nato. “The Americans won’t like it, of course,” Evgeny Buzhinsky, a former member of the Russian general staff, told Russian state media. “But no one will exclude Turkey from Nato because it’s too important an ally.”.......

Mr Erdogan’s trip to Moscow coincided with a renewed military offensive (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/assad-regime-bombs-rebels-hours-after-setting-up-safe-corridor-from-idlib-mmgjlws2l) by the Kremlin-backed Assad regime in Idlib province, northwest Syria. Mr Erdogan said the assault on the jihadists who control the province was a threat to Turkey’s national security and was causing a major humanitarian crisis. He has warned that Turkey is preparing to send in ground troops to secure its borders.......

The Morek observation point, one of 12 set by the Turkish army in Idlib under the terms of the agreement, was surrounded last week (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/syrian-forces-surround-turkish-military-base-rrlpdwqpg) as the regime and Russian forces closed in on the area. The Turkish flag now appears to have been lowered. A video posted online on Monday night showed regime soldiers holding the flag, mocking the Turkish troops and chanting: “With our blood and souls, we sacrifice for you Bashar [Assad]”.

Mr Putin said yesterday that he and Mr Erdogan had agreed on additional steps to reduce hostilities in Idlib but gave no details.

[ORAC]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/turkish-troops-occupy-buffer-zone-on-syrian-border-kz3mg8stj

Turkish troops occupy buffer zone on Syrian border

Turkish troops are preparing to enter a strip of northern Syria (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/topic/syria)currently controlled by Kurdish forces to patrol a buffer zone set up under an agreement with the US.

The so-called “safe zone”, which will stretch 500 miles along Syria’s frontier with Turkey, will put distance between Turkish soil and a Kurdish militia that Ankara regards as a terrorist group. The area where Turkish soldiers will be present will extend from the border up to three miles inside Syria, according to a report on the Turkish news channel HaberTurk. Beyond that will be a second strip of seven miles where only US soldiers will patrol, followed by a further 2.5 miles cleared of the Kurds’ heavy weaponry.

The Turkish-patrolled strip will be far narrower than the 20 miles originally demanded by President Erdogan. Nonetheless, it will double the Turkish army’s area of operations inside the warzone. The deal was struck earlier this month following threats from Ankara of a military offensive fand frantic diplomacy on the part of the US, which is supporting the Kurdish YPG. It has averted a crisis which could have seen Turkish troops clashing with American forces.......

Turkey already controls two zones in northern Syria covering a total area of about 1,500 square miles, which it seized in military operations against Isis, in late 2016, and the YPG, in early 2018. Turkish troops are also present in Idlib (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/syrian-and-russian-forces-enter-key-rebel-town-in-idlib-9dmdkqbpx), the last rebel-held province where President Assad and his Russian backers are currently waging a huge offensive. Ankara controls 12 military points in rebel territory along the frontline with Assad, which were set up under a ceasefire agreement with Russia.

Mr Assad has never accepted the presence of Turkish boots on Syrian soil, however, describing it as an invasion of sovereign territory and vowing to seize back the whole country. One of the bases has now been surrounded by his forces and the Turkish flag lowered, while a second was targeted in airstrikes which narrowly missed it on Wednesday morning.

There is growing disquiet among Turkish top brass over Ankara’s growing embroilment in the Syrian quagmire. Five generals resigned earlier this week, including the commander and deputy commander of the Idlib operations.

[ORAC]

SU-35 demonstration flight doing low level aerobatics over the centre of Istanbul. Different safety rules I guess......

https://youtu.be/uCxwcuOqOas

[Lonewolf_50]

So long as there was a NOTAM, what's the problem? Their airspace, their risk assessment.

[ORAC]

https://twitter.com/laraseligman/status/1181268312472334336?s=21

[NutLoose]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/president-trump/trump-claims-uk-is-thrilled-and-he-consulted-with-everyone-in-rambling-defence-of-decision-to-let-turkey-invade-syria/ar-AAIqQaF

[pr00ne]

ORAC,

Seeing as the border being discussed is that between Syria and TURKEY, I guess that the Turks will have their own radar cover of their own airspace and border, so cut out of nothing.

[ORAC]

You can see the blips - but without Mode 5/L16 you don’t who they are.

[pr00ne]

You'll know if they are not your own...

[NutLoose]

Turkish Army has crossed the border


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-49983357

[Melchett01]

And once again, the West throws the Kurds under a bus having first used them for their own ends. That makes 4 times that I can think of in recent history. I’m surprised they still even talk to us.

[etudiant]

And once again, the West throws the Kurds under a bus having first used them for their own ends. That makes 4 times that I can think of in recent history. I’m surprised they still even talk to us.

The Kurds are used to betrayal. It is the result of living as an unassimilated minority in a very fractured part of the world.
The one thing Turkey, Syria, Iran and Iraq all agree on is that the Kurds will never be allowed to have their own state or be fully accepted into the community.
So whenever the Kurds think they have found someone who will help them, they find that eventually those other countries are willing to cut deals to prevent that support from enduring.
I have read that Israel has been a fairly steadfast provider of training and perhaps more to the Kurds, but suspect that relationship too has had its ups and downs.

[Whenurhappy]

The Kurds are used to betrayal. It is the result of living as an unassimilated minority in a very fractured part of the world.
The one thing Turkey, Syria, Iran and Iraq all agree on is that the Kurds will never be allowed to have their own state or be fully accepted into the community.
So whenever the Kurds think they have found someone who will help them, they find that eventually those other countries are willing to cut deals to prevent that support from enduring.
I have read that Israel has been a fairly steadfast provider of training and perhaps more to the Kurds, but suspect that relationship too has had its ups and downs.
Absolutely true. The Kurdish groups (of which there are many) spend as much time fighting amongst themselves as they do with outsiders. The PYD/YPG are masters of self-promotion and good at PR, what with their fully integrated fighting units and LBGTQ battalions. All spin, I'm afraid. Kurds are very conservative and pious Sunnis who would be happy in a theocratic state - if it were their state. I also know a few liberal Kurds who are happy to live away from the region and the Marxist influence of the PKK and PYD.

I was mildly enraged that the BBC tonight referred to the PKK as separatists; they are terrorists and proscribed as such in almost every Western country. The UK (Met SO15) are very active in breaking up PKK cells, mainly in London.

I have little sympathy for the Kurds.

[jolihokistix]

No chicken coup, that's for sure.

Turkey's Syrian FSA 'rebels' in the front line vs the SDF rebels.

[ORAC]

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/465092-graham-van-hollen-announce-new-turkey-sanctionsGraham, Van Hollen announce new Turkey sanctionsSens. Lindsey Graham (https://thehill.com/people/lindsey-graham) (R-S.C.) and Chris Van Hollen (https://thehill.com/people/chris-van-hollen) (D-Md.) on Wednesday announced that they have reached an agreement on new sanctions against Turkey after the country launched a military operation in northern Syria.

"I am pleased to have reached a bipartisan agreement with Senator @ChrisVanHollen on severe sanctions against Turkey for their invasion of Syria," Graham said in a tweet announcing the deal. He added that "while the Administration refuses to act against Turkey, I expect strong bipartisan support. ... Most Members of Congress believe it would be wrong to abandon the Kurds who have been strong allies against ISIS." ......

The deal between the two senators comes after they announced Monday that they were working on sanctions legislation following Trump's decision to yank U.S. troops out of northern Syria ahead of a planned Turkish military operation. Turkey began airstrikes and shelling against Kurdish forces in northern Syria on Wednesday and, hours later, moved ground troops into the country after Trump pulled back U.S. troops.

Congress is currently out of town as part of a two-week recess. But Van Hollen said on Wednesday that they will introduce legislation next week and want a quick vote. "This sanctions bill will be introduced as soon as Congress returns. Will ask for an immediate vote to send a clear message to Turkey that it must cease and desist its military action, withdraw its fighters from the areas under attack, and stop the tragic loss of life," he said.

The bill, according to a fact sheet shared by Graham, would sanction any assets of Turkish leadership, including Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, within U.S. jurisdiction. The bill would also target Turkey's energy sector and military, including sanctions against "any foreign person who sells or provides financial, material, or technological support or knowingly does a transaction with Turkish military." It would also prohibit U.S. military sales to Turkey and restrict the ability for Turkey's leadership to travel to the United States.

"Today @LindseyGrahamSC and I are announcing a framework for sanctions against Turkey to respond to their military operation in northeastern Syria, which is already underway. These sanctions will have immediate, far-reaching consequences for Erdogan and his military," Van Hollen tweeted.

Our bill includes sanctions on:
→ Turkey's political leadership
→ Military transactions with Turkey
→ Turkey's domestic energy sector

It will also:
→ Prohibit U.S. military support for Turkey
→ Trigger 2017 CAATSA sanctions
→ Restrict U.S. visas for Turkish leadership https://t.co/nugcPRlMFD

— Chris Van Hollen (@ChrisVanHollen) October 9, 2019 (https://twitter.com/ChrisVanHollen/status/1182035675811651585?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)

Trump is facing fierce backlash from both sides of the aisle for his decision to pull U.S. troops out of northern Syria. Lawmakers warn that it could bolster ISIS and endanger the Kurds, who have allied with the United States to fight the terrorist organization. Under the bill, sanctions against Turkey would remain in effect until the administration certifies to lawmakers that Ankara has withdrawn its forces from Syria.

Trump distanced himself from Turkey's military operation earlier Wednesday and indicated that he would support additional sanctions.

“I think Lindsey would like to stay there for the next 200 years and maybe add a couple a hundred of thousand people every place, but I disagree with Lindsey on that,” Trump told reporters at the White House. “But I will tell you that I do agree on sanctions, but I actually think much tougher than sanctions if [Erdoğan] doesn’t do it in as humane a way as possible.”

[NutLoose]

Hmmmmmmm Sanctions, Putin will be rubbing his hand with glee while offering support with the other. Trump wants locking away where he can't do any harm.

[ORAC]

https://twitter.com/troopsincontact/status/1182297333033123840?s=21

[ORAC]

https://twitter.com/nktpnd/status/1183753797530738693?s=20

The New York Times reports that the US is finally "reviewing plans" to flush the WS3 nuclear weapons storage vault at Incirlik Air Base in Turkey...

[chopper2004]

The weeks events remind me of Dale Brown's Rogue Forces (another Patrick McLanahan Sky Masters/Dreamland high tech thriller) written a decade ago shows how Turkey (having been sold surplus A-10 Warthogs and F-15E Strike Eagles atop of their inventory) wants to wipe out PPK and Kurds by invading northern Iraq. Counteracting US troops backed by by Sky Masters Inc with their flying wing cargo a/c (based on X- something or another) with a laser defeats the rogue Turks
https://www.dalebrown.info/21.htm

https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/attachments/dale_brown_rogue_forces-jpg.422970/?hash=3eaba435e1c5edfc42645721eaa0ccc3

Oh and in the book TuAF F-4E 'Terminator' filled with ECM gear, jams the allied forces and gets a taste of a laser thanks to the Sky Masters Inc.

In weird twist in the real world, a TuAF F-4E Termintor ends up being shot down by the Syrians in 2012

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9349777/Syria-shoots-down-Turkish-fighter-jet.html?wgu=272965_16644_15711337416949_189f536219&wgexpiry=1578909741&WT.mc_id=tmgoff_paff-4551_subsoffers_basic_planit&utm_source=tmgoff&utm_medium=tmgoff_paff-4551&utm_content=subsoffers_basic&utm_campaign=tmgoff_paff-4551_subsoffers_basic_planit

Cheers

[jolihokistix]

Was the operative word not 'quietly'?

[chopper2004]

https://twitter.com/nktpnd/status/1183753797530738693?s=20

The New York Times reports that the US is finally "reviewing plans" to flush the WS3 nuclear weapons storage vault at Incirlik Air Base in Turkey...

I thought Erdogan say Turkey could not go the way of arming itself with bucket of sunshine? Unless US are worried that rogue factions could storm and take the weapons like out of say a Stephen Coonts or Dale Brown fiction novel.

Cheers

[k3k3]

Just replace the weapons with training "Shapes" on the quiet.

[ORAC]

https://www.dailysabah.com/defense/2019/10/25/turkey-russia-close-to-reaching-agreement-on-su-35-fighter-jet-saleTurkey, Russia close to reaching agreement on Su-35 fighter jet saleTurkey is close to reaching a deal with Moscow over the purchase of Su-35 fighter jets as well as co-manufacturing some components of the Russian-made jets, Turkish sources said Friday.

Turkish and Russian officials are discussing the details of the sale of a total of 36 Su-35 fighter jets to Turkey, two months after President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's visit to the International Aviation and Space Salon (MAKS) aviation show outside of Moscow. Sources added that officials are also discussing Turkey's possible involvement in the production of some components of the fighter jets, including its precision weapons and ammunition......

[ORAC]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/greece-fears-turkish-encroachment-over-oil-exploration-deal-with-libya-hpzcdgkk5Greece fears Turkish encroachment over oil exploration deal with LibyaGreece has accused Turkey of breaching international law after Ankara signed a Mediterranean oil and gas exploration agreement with Libya.

The deal, which threatens to vastly extend Turkey’s claimed rights over the Mediterranean, follows an agreement last week for Ankara to supply weaponry to the internationally recognised Libyan government in Tripoli, which is involved in a military struggle with forces loyal to Khalifa Haftar for control of the country.

Greece fears that the exploration deal encompasses uninterrupted territory running from Turkey’s southern shore all the way to the coast of Libya, encroaching on areas close to the islands of Rhodes and Crete over which Athens claims exclusive economic rights.

“It is illegal and absurd because it ignores the presence of islands like Crete,” Nikos Dendias, the Greek foreign minister, said. “Greece cannot and will not relinquish its sovereignty. We will respond to any attempt [Turkey] makes to encroach these rights. Our military capabilities are robust,” he told Skai, a television network based in Athens.

Greece has accused Turkey of breaching international law after Ankara signed a Mediterranean oil and gas exploration agreement with Libya.

The deal, which threatens to vastly extend Turkey’s claimed rights over the Mediterranean, follows an agreement last week for Ankara to supply weaponry to the internationally recognised Libyan government in Tripoli, which is involved in a military struggle with forces loyal to Khalifa Haftar for control of the country.

Greece fears that the exploration deal encompasses uninterrupted territory running from Turkey’s southern shore all the way to the coast of Libya, encroaching on areas close to the islands of Rhodes and Crete over which Athens claims exclusive economic rights.

“It is illegal and absurd because it ignores the presence of islands like Crete,” Nikos Dendias, the Greek foreign minister, said. “Greece cannot and will not relinquish its sovereignty. We will respond to any attempt [Turkey] makes to encroach these rights. Our military capabilities are robust,” he told Skai, a television network based in Athens......

[ORAC]

https://breakingdefense.com/2019/12/pull-us-troops-out-of-turkey-former-eucom-deputy/

Pull US Troops Out if Turkey: Former EUCOM Deputy

.....When asked about growing concerns about the safety of these nuclear weapons in light of deteriorating U.S.-Turkey ties, former Air Force Secretary Deborah Lee James noted that – hypothetically – if such weapons did require relocation, removing them from Incirlik would be a “complicated operation [that] would require negotiations with the [new host] nation.” Nevertheless, the United States should prioritize moving these weapons to a more stable and secure European facility, such as Aviano Air Base, Italy. There is simply no longer a strategic necessity for maintaining a nuclear arsenal in Turkey as the United States has other nuclear forces available for deterring Russia.

Second, Washington should relocate the 39th Air Wing and its various support functions; Cyprus and Greece are excellent alternatives. For the former, its Akrotiri Air Base is already home to the United Kingdom’s Royal Air Force and it has runways and facilities akin to Incirlik; moreover, it is still near the Middle Eastern theatre but has the added advantage of being located on European soil. Choosing Cyprus would send Turkey a clear message that the United States is a no longer prepared to tolerate Turkey’s illegal oil exploration and naval harassment within the Cypriot exclusive economic zone.......

[Whenurhappy]

https://breakingdefense.com/2019/12/pull-us-troops-out-of-turkey-former-eucom-deputy/

Pull US Troops Out if Turkey: Former EUCOM Deputy

.....When asked about growing concerns about the safety of these nuclear weapons in light of deteriorating U.S.-Turkey ties, former Air Force Secretary Deborah Lee James noted that – hypothetically – if such weapons did require relocation, removing them from Incirlik would be a “complicated operation [that] would require negotiations with the [new host] nation.” Nevertheless, the United States should prioritize moving these weapons to a more stable and secure European facility, such as Aviano Air Base, Italy. There is simply no longer a strategic necessity for maintaining a nuclear arsenal in Turkey as the United States has other nuclear forces available for deterring Russia.

Second, Washington should relocate the 39th Air Wing and its various support functions; Cyprus and Greece are excellent alternatives. For the former, its Akrotiri Air Base is already home to the United Kingdom’s Royal Air Force and it has runways and facilities akin to Incirlik; moreover, it is still near the Middle Eastern theatre but has the added advantage of being located on European soil. Choosing Cyprus would send Turkey a clear message that the United States is a no longer prepared to tolerate Turkey’s illegal oil exploration and naval harassment within the Cypriot exclusive economic zone.......
Of course, it's not just a simple matter of moving the devices from one location to another. In Greece I'd anticipate huge civil unrest if the US proposed to move then there - with a pro-Soviet Russian government to boot. Secondly, going to the SBA in Cyprus would require NSC and then Parliamentary approval, quite apart from the infrastructure efforts that would be needed to house the weapons in a SSA and accommodate the aircraft that could carry them.

Moreover it would cause both sides on the island of Cyprus to become (more) enraged and jointly target the British presence. This is in addition to pissing off the Turks, with whom we still have a good working relationship at diplomatic and military levels. Added to that, there would be huge agitation from the very pro Russian government in the Republic of Cyprus.

Furthermore there is no question of Russian troops or aircraft based in Turkey; during the coup attempt in July 2016 it was the Turkish Base Cdr (BGen Van) who rebelled against the government and was dragged from the US Base Cdr's office by MİT officers. The US Colonel had served on 1 Sqn on exchange about 15 years ago - 'Red' for those who might remember him. The US and Turkish perimeter around the SSA remained secure.

Of course the US and Turkey have clashed over nukes before. One of the secret protocols agreed after the Cuban missile crises was to withdraw the jointly US/Turkish manned Jupiter Missile batteries. The US withdrew the nuclear tipped missiles without telling the HN, who were justifiably cross, and it soured relations for a good decade.

[ORAC]

Of course, it's not just a simple matter of moving the devices from one location to another. In Greece I'd anticipate huge civil unrest if the US proposed to move then there - with a pro-Soviet Russian government to boot. Secondly, going to the SBA in Cyprus would require NSC and then Parliamentary approval, quite apart from the infrastructure efforts that would be needed to house the weapons in a SSA and accommodate the aircraft that could carry them. There is no suggestion in the article of moving the nuclear weapons to Cyprus, only the 39th AW.

[Whenurhappy]

There is no suggestion in the article of moving the nuclear weapons to Cyprus, only the 39th AW.
You may want to consider what their mission is.

[RAFEngO74to09]

There is no suggestion in the article of moving the nuclear weapons to Cyprus, only the 39th AW.

I agree - there is no suggestion the B-61s would go to Cyprus.

The 39th Air Wing comprises a lot more than the 39th Weapons System Security Group which is the only element that would go with the weapons and be reassigned to another USAF wing or HN base.

The balance of 39th Air Wing is either to do with providing mission support to transit / deployed aircraft (39th Mission Support Group) or the hospital (39th Medical Group).

Furthermore, the former RAF SSA at Akrotiri is derelict and a non-starter - and off-base with self-evident unacceptable outload security implications compared to modus operandi with WS3.

I would imagine that the B-61s would only remain in the European theatre if a HN that had a base with spare WS3 in HASs would be willing to accept them.

Unlike the B-61s in the other NATO countries, those remaining at Incirlik now are for US aircraft.

The ideal reallocation would be to a US air base - kind of narrows the choice - Ramstein (for aircraft deployed into spare HAS in crisis) or Lakenheath (for F-15E now - F-35A later) - there are plenty of spare WS3 slots around (100 at Lakenheath alone) that could be up and running pretty quickly.

Both those options would probably have civilian NIMBYs up in arms (pun intended) - so the B-61s might have to go back to the USA.

https://fas.org/blogs/security/2019/10/nukes-out-of-turkey/

https://www.incirlik.af.mil/Units/39th-Air-Base-Wing/

[Harley Quinn]

The ideal reallocation would be to a US air base - kind of narrows the choice - Ramstein (for aircraft deployed into spare HAS in crisis) or Lakenheath (for F-15E now - F-35A later) - there are plenty of spare WS3 slots around (100 at Lakenheath alone) that could be up and running pretty quickly.

Wasn't it stated on another thread that F35 is not nuclear capable, hence the Germans had to reject it as a Tornado replacement?

[ORAC]

Currently undergoing certification.

https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/2018/11/16/Lockheed-Martin-contracted-for-F-35-flight-testing-and-nuclear-capability/9711542377314/

[ORAC]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/turkey-protects-disputed-mediterranean-oil-and-gas-drilling-with-armed-drones-jgmtknw9f

Turkey protects disputed Mediterranean oil and gas drilling with armed drones (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/turkey-protects-disputed-mediterranean-oil-and-gas-drilling-with-armed-drones-jgmtknw9f)

Armed Turkish drones will be launched from northern Cyprus today to assist Ankara’s drill ships surveying the eastern Mediterranean (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tussle-for-oil-and-gas-beneath-the-mediterranean-6jx6s5v2h) for oil and gas, it was announced yesterday...... It remains unclear how many unmanned aerial vehicles will be mobilised from Cyprus in the operation, according to the Turkish news agency Demiroren.

The move may further aggravate Ankara’s already tense relations with the European Union and its neighbours over energy resources in the Mediterranean.

In a statement issued at the weekend, the Turkish Cypriot leader Mustafa Akinci said that his cabinet had authorised use of the Gecitkale airbase in line with Ankara’s decision to expand its drilling operations in the region. The statement added that the drones would “protect the legitimate rights” of Turkey and northern Cyprus, a breakaway state that only Ankara recognises.

Turkey began seeking oil and gas off the coast of Cyprus this year, dispatching two drill ships and an exploration vessel to the contested region. A recently agreed deal with Libya (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/greece-fears-turkish-encroachment-over-oil-exploration-deal-with-libya-hpzcdgkk5) to section off part of the eastern Mediterranean, cutting through waters recognised as the sovereign territory of Greece and the Republic of Cyprus, has served to ratchet up tension in the area.

Angered by the deal, Athens expelled the Libyan ambassador last week. It also rallied its EU partners in condemning the maritime accord as “illicit”........

Greece and Turkey, which are Nato allies, have long been at loggerheads over air, sea and territorial rights, coming to the brink of war in 1996 over a barren islet in the Aegean Sea. Greece has on three occasions intercepted ships supplying weapons to the government in Tripoli.

In a recent interview, Nikos Panagiotopoulos, the Greek defence minister, said that if it came to a fight with Turkey “we shall not wait for anyone to come and help us. Whatever we do, we shall do alone.”

[Lyneham Lad]

In The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/16/turkey-delivers-armed-drone-to-northern-cyprus-amid-growing-tension-libya-deal?CMP=share_btn_link).

Delivery follows Libya-Turkey deal aimed at securing rights to gas reserves in east Mediterranean

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/16/turkey-delivers-armed-drone-to-northern-cyprus-amid-growing-tension-libya-deal#img-1
A Turkish military drone lands at Geçitkale airport, in northern Cyprus, on 16 December.
Photograph: Anadolu Agency/Anadolu Agency via Getty Images

A Turkish military drone was delivered to northern Cyprus on Monday amid growing tensions over Turkey’s deal with Libya (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/15/turkey-renews-military-pledge-to-libya-as-threat-of-mediterranean-war-grows) that extended its claims to the gas-rich eastern Mediterranean.

The Bayraktar TB2 drone landed in Geçitkale airport, in Famagusta, at about 7am GMT on Monday, an AFP correspondent said. The breakaway northern Cyprus (https://www.theguardian.com/world/cyprus) government had approved the use of the airport for unmanned aerial vehicles.

It followed a deal signed last month between Libya and Turkey (https://www.theguardian.com/world/turkey) that could prove crucial in the scramble for recently-discovered gas reserves in the eastern Mediterranean. The agreement claimed extensive areas of the sea for Turkey, undercutting claims by Greece and the internationally-recognised Republic of Cyprus, which governs the southern part of the island.
Analysts say Turkey was pushing back against rival efforts to claim exploration rights in the area after Cyprus, Greece, Egypt and Israel excluded it from a new “East Mediterranean Gas Forum” that also includes Jordan, Italy and the Palestinian territories.

The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC), which is only recognised by Turkey, said approval for the drone was given last week “in light of the latest developments in the eastern Mediterranean region” and “to protect the legitimate rights and interests of the TRNC and Turkey”. The TRNC’s transport minister, Tolga Atakan, said Turkish drones were partly in response to the acquisition of Israeli drones by Cyprus in October to monitor its exclusive economic zone.

Turkey already has two drilling vessels in the eastern Mediterranean despite the threat of European Union sanctions.

Ankara does not recognise the Republic of Cyprus, an EU member, and says the TRNC has the right to explore around the entire island.

[ORAC]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/turkey-could-shut-nato-airbase-if-us-imposes-sanctions-jzzlt3pmp

Turkey could shut Nato airbase if US imposes sanctions (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/turkey-could-shut-nato-airbase-if-us-imposes-sanctions-jzzlt3pmp)

President Erdogan warned that he may shut down the main Nato airbase in Turkey, as increasingly toxic relations between Ankara and Washington threatened the home of US nuclear bombers in the region.

Mr Erdogan made the comments about the Incirlik base, where 5,000 US personnel are based along with 50 nuclear warheads, during a televised interview last night. He also warned that the Kurecik radar station in the eastern province of Malatya could be closed to the US military.

It came after US senators approved a package of sanctions against Turkey in response to Ankara’s purchase of the Russian-made S400 missile-defence system, and separately passed a resolution recognising the mass deportations and killings of Armenians in Anatolia in 1915 as a genocide.

“If it is necessary for us to take such a step, of course we have the authority . . . If this is necessary, together with our delegations, we will close down Incirlik if necessary,” Mr Erdogan told a panel of journalists from a news group part-owned by his in-laws. “If they are threatening us with the implementation of these sanctions, of course we will be retaliating.”.....

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I would have thought the only credible/politically possible European alternative for B61’s would be RAF Lakenheath or RAF Fairford.

It wouldn’t absolute amaze me to discover that they have already been moved out of Turkey.

WWW

[ORAC]

Ramstein seems to the only place with both the in-situ security teams and the most surplus vaults.

[ORAC]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/greece-buys-armed-drones-to-challenge-turkey-in-eastern-mediterannean-wj0qg0d5w

Greece buys armed drones to challenge Turkey in eastern Mediterannean (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/greece-buys-armed-drones-to-challenge-turkey-in-eastern-mediterannean-wj0qg0d5w)

Greece is to buy a fleet of American and Israeli armed drones which could be used against similar Turkish assets already deployed to the eastern Mediterranean as Ankara prepares to exploit extensive oil and gasfields under the sea.

Athens is buying three US drones and two others from Israel. Nikos Panagiotopoulos, the defence minister, told parliament last night that the drones could be used to “immobilise” their hostile Turkish counterparts in the event that they enter Greek airspace. “Rules of engagement have already been charted by [our] country’s armed forces . . . to confront potential threats to our sovereignty . . . including [action] to immobilise Turkish drones,” he said.......

The deployment of a new drone to northern Cyprus, a state recognised only by Ankara, has unnerved Greece. Tensions between the two countries intensified after Turkey and Libya agreed this month to carve up part of the eastern Mediterranean, waters recognised as sovereign territory of Greece and the Republic of Cyprus......

The deal between Tripoil and Ankara, which the EU (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-west-cannot-afford-to-lose-turkey-3fxp62whs) and other regional neighbours have declared illegal, has put Greece’s armed forces on heightened alert. But it has also sparked a rift between the civilian and military leaders in Athens over how to respond to Turkey’s exploration plans in the eastern Mediterranean. Ankara has said it will plunder oil and gasfields (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tussle-for-oil-and-gas-beneath-the-mediterranean-6jx6s5v2h) off the coast of Greece’s biggest and wealthiest island Crete.

Mr Panagiotopoulos today sought to ease such concerns insisting that the country was both capable and prepared to “do whatever it takes to defend its national sovereignty”.

[ORAC]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/29/greece-turkey-standoff-france-send-warships-east-mediterranean

France to send warships to support Greece in Turkish standoff

Greece’s prime minister, Kyriakos Mitsotakis (https://www.theguardian.com/world/kyriakos-mitsotakis), has welcomed a decision by France to dispatch war frigates to the eastern Mediterranean as a standoff with Turkey over regional energy reserves intensifies.

With tensions between Athens and Ankara causing growing international alarm, Mitsotakis described the vessels as “guarantors of peace.” “The only way to end differences in the eastern Mediterranean is through international justice,” he told reporters after holding talks in Paris with the French president, Emmanuel Macron (https://www.theguardian.com/world/emmanuel-macron). “Greece and France are pursuing a new framework of strategic defence.”.......

The Gallic-Greek alliance cements what officials in Athens are calling a renewed diplomatic push to counter Turkish belligerence in the Mediterranean.

Greece’s defence minister, Nikos Panagiotopoulos, this week went as far as to warn that armed forces were “examining all scenarios, even that of military engagement” in the face of heightened aggression from Ankara. Rejecting Turkish demands that Greece demilitarise 16 Aegean islands, he accused Turkey (https://www.theguardian.com/world/turkey) of displaying unusually provocative behaviour.

The demand, made last week by his Turkish counterpart, Hulusi Akar, follows a dramatic surge in recent months in the number of violations of Greek airspace by Turkish fighter jets. “Greece does not provoke, does not violate the sovereign rights of others, but it doesn’t like to see its own rights violated,” said Panagiotopoulos.

Tensions between the Nato allies prompted Donald Trump to take the unprecedented step of voicing concerns over the situation in a telephone call with the Turkish president, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan (https://www.theguardian.com/world/recep-tayyip-erdogan), on Monday......

[ORAC]

https://news.sky.com/story/hagia-sophia-istanbul-monument-to-become-a-mosque-again-as-turkish-islamic-conservatives-triumph-12025607

Hagia Sophia: Istanbul monument to become a mosque again as Turkish Islamic conservatives triumph


Hagia Sophia has witnessed many upheavals in its 1,500 year history, evolving from a cathedral to a mosque, then a museum. In a landmark decision, Turkey's high court has ruled that its conversion into a museum in 1934 was unlawful - paving the way for the most visited monument in the country to be converted back to an Islamic place of worship.

The move, which threatens to upset Christians around the world, is not about creating more space for prayer as Istanbul has more than 3,000 mosques. Rather, the decision reflects the wider societal struggle within Turkey between secularism and President Erdogan's (https://news.sky.com/topic/recep-tayyip-erdogan-6463) religious conservatism.

The usual crowd of tourists was absent as the announcement came, but the predominantly Turkish media gathered outside Hagia Sophia.
Turkish officials have said opening Hagia Sophia to prayer will not stop tourists from visiting the site and have offered reassurance that the building's Christian icons will be preserved. However, historian Zeynep Ahunbay, who has worked on the conservation of Hagia Sophia for 27 years, doesn't see how that will be possible.

[ORAC]

https://www.politico.eu/article/azerbaijan-armenia-caucasus-skirmish-pits-russia-against-turkey-straining-shaky-alliance/

Caucasus skirmish pits Russia against Turkey, straining shaky alliance

https://www.snafu-solomon.com/2020/07/armenian-army-destroys-4-azerbaijani.html

Armenian army destroys 4 Azerbaijani armored vehicles...we are entering a period of many small wars globally

[ORAC]

https://www.politico.eu/article/german-minister-warns-turkey-drilling-in-mediterranean-harms-eu-ties/

Greek PM warns Turkey over Eastern Mediterranean survey

ATHENS — The EU will have no choice but to impose sanctions if Turkey continues to create tensions in the Eastern Mediterranean, Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis warned Tuesday.

Greek armed forces were placed on alert, as Turkey announced plans for a seismic survey south and east of the Greek island of Kastellorizo from July 21-August 2. Some military personnel were told that summer leave would be suspended, according to Greek officials, while the chief of the Greek armed forces, Konstantinos Floros, has expedited his return from Cyprus.

“Greece is monitoring all developments with confidence, assuredness and absolute readiness,” Mitsotakis said at a press conference with Germany's Foreign Minister Heiko Maas in Athens. The Greek embassy in Ankara sent a complaint to the Turkish foreign ministry, according to the Greek foreign ministry. Greek authorities also said they have raised the issue to the EU, NATO and the United Nations Security Council.

“Today's announcement of Turkey's surveys in a section of the Greek continental shelf, through a new illegal Navtex [navigational warning] constitutes an escalation of the tension in our region,” the Greek foreign ministry said in a statement. “It highlights Turkey's persistence in violating international legality and its complete contempt for International Law, the International Law of the Sea, the rules governing good neighborly relations and the urgings of the European Union.”

Greek Defense Minister Nikolaos Panagiotopoulos briefed U.S. Defense Secretary Mark Esper about the latest developments in the Mediterranean over the phone. Panagiotopoulos told Esper that Greek navy ships were in the area and “Greece is prepared to defend its sovereign rights if necessary,” according to a statement issued by the ministry.

“The United States is aware that Turkey has issued a Navtex for research in disputed waters in the Eastern Mediterranean,” the U.S. State Department said. “We urge Turkish authorities to halt any plans for operations and to avoid steps that raise tensions in the region.”

Greece and Turkey are at odds over a number of issues, including Ankara's plan to push ahead with exploration work in contested waters. The bloc's foreign policy chief Josep Borrell warned (https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-calls-on-turkey-to-end-confrontational-actions/) last week that Turkey's exploration work ran "counter to EU interest, to the sovereign rights of EU member states and to international law."

Germany’s Maas also warned Turkey Tuesday that it needs to stop exploratory drilling for hydrocarbons in the Eastern Mediterranean if it wants to improve relations with the EU.

“Regarding Turkey’s drilling in the Eastern Mediterranean, we have a very clear position — international law must be respected so progress in EU-Turkey relations is only possible if Ankara stops provocations in the Eastern Mediterranean,” said Maas, who chairs regular meetings of EU foreign ministers under Germany's Council of the EU presidency.

“The illegal and provocative behavior of Turkey has a serious backlash not only to peace and stability in the Eastern Mediterranean but to the cohesion of NATO and to its relations with the European Union,” said Greek Foreign Minister Nikos Dendias following talks with Maas.

Earlier this month, Turkey's Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu wrote in an opinion piece (https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-turkey-relations-are-strained-but-we-have-common-ground-to-build-on/) for POLITICO that his government was open to dialogue but would continue its exploration work to "protect our national interests and the equal rights of Turkish Cypriots."

[ORAC]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/row-ignites-between-turkey-and-greece-over-mediterranean-gas-69dgb2k5d

Row ignites between Turkey and Greece over Mediterranean gas

Turkey is heading for a confrontation with Greece in the Mediterranean after sending a survey ship into Greek waters off the island of Kastellorizo. The Oruc Reis, which has previously used to search for gas under Cypriot waters, sailed into the area hours after Turkey issued a Navtex maritime warning to alert other vessels. It said that three Turkish ships would be conducting surveys.

Kyriakos Mitsotakis (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/christians-alarmed-as-hagia-sophia-reverts-to-mosque-0xkjjb370), the Greek prime minister, chaired an emergency meeting yesterday. In a statement issued later, the Greek foreign ministry told Turkey to “immediately cease its illegal activities, which undermine peace and security in the region”. Greece put its armed forces on high alert and issued an anti-Navtex, instructing all mariners to ignore the earlier notice from Turkey.

However, Fatih Donmez, the Turkish energy minister, wrote on Twitter that “our efforts to secure Turkey’s energy independence in the Mediterranean . . . will continue uninterrupted”.

The dispute over exploration rights in the Mediterranean began last week when Greece and Egypt signed a deal demarcating the sea boundary between their exclusive economic zones. That area cuts across an agreement between Turkey and the Libyan government of national accord in November.

Greece and Turkey do not recognise each other’s maritime areas.

[Lyneham Lad]

Latest article & photos in The Times.
Greece and Turkey square up over the rights to undersea gas (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fc9c4628-dc98-11ea-982b-b376168bb3e7?shareToken=ead1300ded80dbbfe6acb0f2803fead5)

Even before the fighter jets thundered over and warships sailed into view, Konstantinos Papoutsis was suffering his worst summer in memory.

Covid-19 had already robbed his tourism business on the Greek island of Kastellorizo of almost all its customers. Now, a dispute about undersea gas has brought Greece and Turkey to the brink of conflict in his island’s glittering turquoise waters.

Ankara began threatening to send its seismic survey vessel, Oruc Reis, into the area late last month, upping the stakes in a long-running and unresolved row over the rights to gas discovered around Cyprus. For more than two hours one Monday afternoon in late July, Turkish jets circled low over Kastellorizo, startling the few tourists who were sunbathing beneath.

There was a brief reprieve when President Erdogan agreed to stall Turkey’s explorations in order to hold talks with Athens. But late last week the negotiations broke down, the rhetoric ramped back up and Turkish ships set sail from Antalya on Monday morning. Oruc Reis is now stationed midway between Kastellorizo and Cyprus, accompanied by Ankara’s warships, while Turkish attack helicopters have been circling nearby.

For Mr Papoutsis and the other business owners on the island, the hostility in the skies and the waters are at odds with the warm relations Turks and Greeks enjoy on the ground.

“I can understand it’s a political problem, but it has nothing to do with the people. It’s not normal for these things to be happening every day between us and Turkey,” he told The Times.

“Our relations with the Turkish side were very good. The politicians need to find a solution. They need to finish this.”
Kastellorizo’s proximity to Turkey — it lies four miles from the popular Turkish coastal resort of Kas — is both its blessing and its curse. In a normal summer season, about 60 per cent of the island’s visitors arrive from Turkey. Some are day-trippers who take a break from their Turkish holiday to see its paint box houses and pristine bays.

Others travel to their Greek holiday through Turkish airports and the twice-daily ferry, usually a far quicker route than the plane via Rhodes to the island’s own tiny airport. A few dock their yachts in the harbour — Kastellorizo is a favourite holiday destination for the Turkish elite.



But the proximity also means that the island lies in waters where century-old antagonisms play out. Kemal Ataturk led Turkey’s war of independence against the Greek army following the break up of the Ottoman Empire, seizing back all of the Anatolian mainland, but Athens kept hold of all but four of the islands and islets lying between the two countries, many of which lie in clear sight of the Turkish coast.

According to the UN’s convention on the laws of the sea, a country’s territorial waters extend 12 nautical miles from its coastline, including that of its inhabited islands, while shorter distances between countries should be split down the median line. Turkey, though, is one of the few countries that has not signed the convention.

The discovery of gas fields in the eastern Mediterranean starting in the late 1990s brought this idiosyncrasy to the fore. Turkey had initially hoped to position itself as a transit hub where gas could be brought ashore and liquified. But following the discovery of the Zohr gas field in 2015, alternative plans were formulated to instead bring the gas ashore in Egypt.

Cyprus, Israel, Greece and Egypt have since signed a series of agreements marking out maritime borders and agreeing pipeline routes, leaving Turkey out in the cold.

In response, from 2017 Ankara began sending the Oruc Reis and the drill ships Fatih and Yavuz into Cypriot waters to start its own explorations, claiming that the Turkish Cypriots were being unfairly excluded from the bounty of the discoveries.

It sent its warships to block the commercial drilling vessels that had been contracted by the Republic of Cyprus. Then, in November, Turkey signed an agreement with Libya’s Tripoli government marking out the waters stretching between the two countries as their respective maritimes territories, despite the fact that the area cuts across several Greek islands and skirts Crete.

Last Thursday, Greece signed a similar agreement with Egypt, slicing across the Turkey-Libya zone and sparking the delicate game of brinkmanship now under way in the sea between Kastellorizo and Cyprus. Greece has put its military on standby. Turkey is insisting it won’t back down.

[MPN11]

A friend who works in exploration said he knows that seismic company - “they are rotten. So many people have not been paid by them.”

E&OE, just commenting.

[ORAC]

https://www.defensenews.com/breaking-news/2020/08/12/congress-has-secretly-blocked-us-arms-sales-to-turkey-for-nearly-two-years/

Congress has secretly blocked US arms sales to Turkey for nearly two years

WASHINGTON — Four key members of Congress, either individually or collectively, have quietly frozen all major U.S. arms sales to Turkey for nearly two years in a move to pressure Ankara to abandon its Russian-built S-400 (https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon/2019/07/12/turkey-has-the-s-400-the-trump-administration-is-silent/) air defense system, Defense News has learned......

Defense News learned of the situation from a half dozen sources in Congress, the administration, and the defense industry, all of whom requested anonymity because of the sensitivities involved.

Senate Foreign Relations Committee chairman Jim Risch, R-Idaho, and House Foreign Affairs ranking member Rep. Mike McCaul, R-Texas, acknowledged they are part of the freeze after they were contacted by Defense News.

The two other lawmakers who can sign off on foreign military sales ― House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Eliot Engel, D-N.Y., and Senate Foreign Relations Committee ranking member Sen. Bob Menendez, D-N.J., are also part of the hold, according to multiple Capitol Hill sources. Neither would comment for this story.......

[Lyneham Lad]

The plot thickens...

Report & photos in The Times today:-
Erdogan to retaliate over ‘attack’ on Turkish vessel (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/333ddd3a-dd94-11ea-982b-b376168bb3e7?shareToken=457d2457993ac02ddc5441d0568fb2b7 )

Nato allies were on the brink of confrontation last night as President Erdogan suggested that a Turkish ship had been attacked in waters contested by Greece.

[ORAC]

Turkish economy/Lira collapsing, talk of an early election. A war might sound like a useful distraction in Ankara.....

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/13/greek-military-put-on-high-alert-as-tensions-with-turkey-rise

Greek military put on high alert as tensions with Turkey rise

Greece has placed its military forces on high alert, recalling its naval and air force officers from leave, as tensions with Turkey (https://www.theguardian.com/world/turkey) over exploration of potentially lucrative offshore energy reserves escalate in the eastern Mediterranean......

https://greekcitytimes.com/2020/08/14/tensions-in-the-aegean-greek-frigate-rams-and-damages-turkish-war-ship/

Greek Frigate Rams and Damages Turkish warship

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-greece-turkey-warships/greek-and-turkish-warships-in-mini-collision-defence-source-idUSKCN25A161

Greek and Turkish warships in 'mini collision': defence source

https://greekcitytimes.com/2020/08/14/as-turkeys-economy-collapses-yeni-safak-says-greek-islands-must-be-invaded/

As Turkey’s economy collapses, the Turkish Yeni Şafak Says Greek Islands Must be Invaded.

https://www.arabnews.com/node/1718666/business-economy

Turkey on brink of recession as economy collapses

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/08/11/erdogan-economic-disaster-turkey-banks-debt-dollars/

Erdogan Has Hidden an Economic Disaster Deep in Turkish Banks

[ORAC]

The UAE sending a message to Turkey?

http://www.ekathimerini.com/256085/article/ekathimerini/news/four-emirati-f-16s-to-arrive-in-souda-air-base

Four Emirati F-16s to arrive in Souda Air Base

Four F-16 fighter jets of the United Arab Emirates (UAE) will be deployed at the Souda Air Base in Crete in the next few hours, following Thursday’s call between the head of the Greek Armed Forces and his Emirati counterpart.

In the coming days, these aircraft and their crews will carry out joint training with the Greek Armed Forces over the Eastern Mediterranean.

The F-16 crews will be joined by support staff - engineers and ground personnel.

On Thursday, the Chief of the Hellenic National Defense General Staff (GEETHA), Konstantinos Floros, discussed developments in the region with UAE’s Lieutenant General Hamad Mohammed Thani Al Rumaithi.

[racedo]

Wonder how far a countries military can be stretched before their ability to do anything snaps.

Syria / Libya / Irag / Azerbijan etc

Almost if someone is playing "whack a mole" and getting ready to hit them all at once, in a totally uncoordinated action :E

[zac21]

https://fr24.com/00000010/254addf3

Drones flying 24/7 on the West coast of Turkey. Transponder codes 00000001 to 00000010

Also TCT101 is scouting the Syrian border, it is starting to warm up ?

[Lyneham Lad]

Article in The Times.
Mediterranean countries step up naval exercises as dispute with Turkey deepens (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/22e46b82-e7a0-11ea-8fb6-8dc16a61b81b?shareToken=6b08def9a945ccd33468933a0405ea7e)

France, Italy, Greece and Cyprus are to hold joint military exercises in the eastern Mediterranean, the fourth round of drills in the crowded waters, amid a mounting dispute with Turkey over gas reserves.

Florence Parly, the French armed forces minister, announced the move this morning, saying on Twitter that the region “should not be a playground for the ambitions of some”.

She wrote: “Our message is simple: priority to dialogue, co-operation and diplomacy so that the Eastern Mediterranean becomes an area of stability and respect for international law.”

Turkey sent the Oruc Reis, a seismic survey vessel, into the waters between Crete and Cyprus on August 10, provoking fury from Greece which claims the area as its sovereign territory.

Athens has held two rounds of war games since then, with France and then with the UAE (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/united-arab-emirates-joins-greece-in-mediterranean-gas-drilling-dispute-with-turkey-dl206v60m). Turkey conducted military and aerial drills over the weekend and issued a navigational warning that it will hold another round this week.

Heiko Maas, the German foreign minister, visited Athens and Ankara yesterday to try to mediate in the dispute. In a joint press conference with Mevlut Cavusoglu, the Turkish foreign minister, Mr Maas said that both sides were “ready for dialogue” and warned that the mounting militarisation of the region was “playing with fire . . . no one wants to settle this conflict militarily, which would be absolute madness”.

Hours later, however, Mr Cavusoglu gave a televised speech in which he vowed that Turkey would “defend rights”.

President Erdogan (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eu-banditry-wont-stop-turkey-in-mediterrenean-says-erdogan-0nf9l0tck) reiterated that message this morning. “We will not compromise what is ours . . . we are determined to do whatever is necessary,” he said at an event to mark the first military victory in Anatolia of the Seljuk Turks.

The new exercises begin today to the south of Cyprus, close to where another Turkish vessel, the drill ship [i]Yavuz, is stationed. France will send three Rafale fighter jets and an assault ship equipped with a helicopter. They exercises will continue until Friday.

Nikos Panagiotopoulos, the Greek defence minister, said that the aim was “to demonstrate the commitment of the four European Mediterranean countries to the rule of law as part of the policy of de-escalating tensions”.