VFR offshore operations in Germany

[Vtosser]

In my search for job opportunities, I've learned that in Germany, all offshore operations are conducted VFR only....even though all the German operators are requiring an IR to be considered for a job :confused:
Can anyone shed some light on how this is done, and what the regulatory limitations are.

[GoodGrief]

Well, the term offshore is a bit misleading.
Offshore in helicopter terms is equivalent of oil & gas.

There's no O&G in Germany.
These guys fly out to the wind parks and winch down maintenance personnell.

[whoknows idont]

How is the term misleading? Please note that we are talking about offshore wind parks. Therefore the helicopter operations are by definition off-shore.

[eivissa]

The German offshore area where these windparks are built and the routing to them is mostly airspace Golf. In German air law you have to stay clear of clouds at all times and no IFR is allowed. There are plans to change that, as our neighboors England, Denmark and the Netherlands. Currently these operations are mostly conducted "VIFR" with IFR certified crews and helicopters. Some call this a temporary "grey" solution, others call it highly illegal. Its about time that the German authorities adopt the standards of our neighbouring countries, so companies can safely and legally implement IFR procedures like ARA's to these installations. This also answers your question why all operatos require you to have an instrument rating.
EASA NPA 2013-10
4.1.1 Definition of offshore operation
The Agency considers that offshore operations are all flights over open sea areas to a location in the sea in accordance with the following amended definition of offshore operations.
‘Offshore operations’ means a helicopter operation that has a substantial proportion of any flight conducted over open sea areas to or from an offshore location for the purpose of:
(a) support to offshore oil, gas and mineral exploration, production, storage and transport;
(b) support to offshore wind turbine and other renewable energy sources;
(c) support to marine lights; or
(d) sea-pilot transfer.

[Thracian]

Currently these operations are mostly conducted "VIFR" with IFR certified crews and helicopters. Some call this a temporary "grey" solution, others call it highly illegal.
At least it´s by far better to fly with an IFR certified crew and helicopter following IFR procedures under VFR conditions, than the other way around ;-)


Thracian

[homonculus]

Well this really sorts out AnFI !!

Glad I am not the customer paying for all this unusable capability.

[bladegrabber]

FYI guys there are several offshore platforms associated with the wind farms so the heli's regularly conduct approaches and landings for crew changes etc just the same as in the NS.
Pleased to say no incidents so far and they have been doing it for 6 years or so.

BG

[whoknows idont]

FYI guys there are several offshore platforms associated with the wind farms so the heli's regularly conduct approaches and landings for crew changes etc just the same as in the NS.



FYI: We are talking about the NS here. There are only two operational parks in the Baltic and they are not using heli ops as of now AFAIK.

[eivissa]

@Thracian: You didnt get my sentence correctly. I was saying that IFR A/C+crews are operating under both VMC and IMC conditions within VFR/VMC only airspace.

The routing system, offshore com frequency allocation, communication between different operators is far from perfect, but it looks like all companies have started to look at north sea OGP standards and are working on getting there.

[Vtosser]

At least it´s by far better to fly with an IFR certified crew and helicopter following IFR procedures under VFR conditions, than the other way around ;-)


Thracian
I believe the VFR minimums being applied in Germany are less than the IFR minimums offshore (visibility)...correct me if I'm wrong.....Which might be the answer to why IFR is not being implemented !?

[AnFI]

eivissa
"I was saying that IFR A/C+crews are operating under both VMC and IMC conditions within VFR/VMC only airspace. "

Do you mean in Germany IFR is not permitted in class G?
It is in the UK, but they are heading for 'ever closer union' in Aviation Regulation


(Homonculus "Well this really sorts out AnFI !!" please explain)

[eivissa]

"Do you mean in Germany IFR is not permitted in class G?"

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. It is planned to change this restriction, but I am not aware of any date of implementation yet.

[eivissa]

I have done my share of offshore flying out of most of the countries surrounding the Northsea. The Dutch system with their KZ-routes is the best Ive seen. Germany would be smart to adopt their system indeed, but they havent gotten there yet.

[Vtosser]

I only have the ARA limits in UK as a reference (3/4 NM)....been told that it's normal to fly offshore in German waters with limitations of 800 meters visibility.....single pilot!
Is someone taking the Mickey out of me?

[FalkoB]

I have done my share of offshore flying out of most of the countries surrounding the Northsea. The Dutch system with their KZ-routes is the best Ive seen. Germany would be smart to adopt their system indeed, but they havent gotten there yet.
I work for one of the 3 companies which fly offshore (windparks ) out of northern Germany. Unlike to offshore flights out of Aberdeen, where they use HMRs based on a VOR Radial, we use a GPS routing system including the Dutch KZ routes and assigned altitudes created by all major German offshore operators and DFS couple years ago. There is no IFR flights into Class G (German airspace) of course you can go IFR on your return leg back to onshore ( class E), where ATC needs you to be at 3000ft before IFR starts. You could also depart IFR from offshore to a point in space ( Waypoint "Juist") and then proceed VFR from there....

We have GPS routes guiding us to the OSS/ offshore Substations in and out of the windparks, however they are not considered GPS approaches as there is no IFR in German class g airspace .

Someone mentioned ARA approaches Into clustered windparks... If you have done any ARA into a Oil and Gas Platform and now you wanne use that same indea to approach a substation right in the middle of 50-100 windmills, all I will say about that is, GOOD LUCK.
Keep in mind windparks don't look the same, the wind turbines aren't positioned the same, the clusters never look the same. Some OSS are right at the edge of the windparks, some in the middle some , some more to the southern side, some on the northern edge....mass you can see there is lots of free styling going.

The solution will be GPS approaches into windparks but that will take sometime before that will be reality. For now we are limited to 600ft and 1500m in class g in Germany.

In Dutch class G Airspace IFR is allowed. Keep in mind if you talk to Bremen radar/information they won't see you below ~ 1500 ft. In the Dutch airspace however they seemed to be able to see you at any altitude and you can even reach them on the radio when you are down on the platform....something Germany is lacking. Also there is no frequency for helicopter only even though on busy days we have around 12 helicopters in the air at once, sharing the same frequencies with hobby pilots and commercial jets.
But DFS says they don't have the money to put one ATC controller aside. And even if they did, radar coverage is Poor below 1500-2000 ft agl. In Scotland they have traffic service based on SSR. A simple system to be implemented but again, nobody wants to pick up the bill. As always, someone needs to die before something happens.

Enjoy your soccer game tonight ��������⚽️

[Mustapha Cuppa]

If you have done any ARA into a Oil and Gas Platform and now you wanne use that same indea to approach a substation right in the middle of 50-100 windmills, all I will say about that is, GOOD LUCK.

Are you implying that an approach to an oil rig in the middle of a highly populated field would not be made to the edge of that field before continuing visually to the target rig?

[Krautwald]

In my old job I had lots of project work in Germany and while I like the country, I soon knew that my pilot ambition would never take place there. It sounds so typical that they restrict to VFR but still won´t look at you for employment unless you hold an IFR (that they won´t let you use and keep routined).

I appreciate the German way of doing things properly but in my opinion, flying in Germany is overly elitist. It is one of the fields where their way of doing things has toppled over, from impressively clear procedures to unnecessary gatekeeping.

[Groquik]

The solution will be GPS approaches into windparks but that will take sometime before that will be reality. For now we are limited to 600ft and 1500m in class g in Germany.


how would you feel with hoisting your pax down with a ceiling below 600ft? I guess that the top of the turbine is at 400 to 500ft (even higher according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestas_V164) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestas_V164)
is it something that sounds acceptable in the windpark community?

regards