Post-Brexit EU citizenship for forces brats born abroad

[Mil-26Man]

With the very real prospect of a Brexit next week, can anyone shed any light on the citizenship rights (or otherwise) of forces brats who were born in countries that are now in the EU (Germany, Malta, Cyprus especially) and who might wish to take out dual-nationality in a post-EU UK?

Google is usually my friend, but forces brats don't seem to appear in the online guidelines for citizenship of any of these countries.

Asking for a friend, and thanks in advance.

[Pontius Navigator]

Primary domicile will probably be the rule. Granddaughter born in SBA is British. My mother born in India of Irish parents was British as she was born before the creation of the Irish Free State.

[Cole Burner]

Vote Leave and you'd be risking an awful lot.

Rubbish.

Children of forces personnel who are born overseas due to their parents' service hold british nationality as they have since before the EEC was even thought of.

[t43562]

Children of forces personnel who are born overseas due to their parents' service hold british nationality as they have since before the EEC was even thought of.
I think that's not the question - the question is if they can escape being locked out of the EU by getting an EU passport.

[Roland Pulfrew]

by getting an EU passport.

Ahem, there is no such thing as an "EU passport" (well not until Juncker and Tusk get their way). I think what you meant is the right to dual nationality of an EU member state. Interesting reference to being locked out of the EU; I must have missed the declaration that post-Brexit we British will be barred from travelling to EU member states. More Project Fear?

[Mil-26Man]

I think that's not the question - the question is if they can escape being locked out of the EU by getting an EU passport.

Thanks t43562, that was indeed the question.

Interesting reference to being locked out of the EU; I must have missed the declaration that post-Brexit we British will be barred from travelling to EU member states. More Project Fear?

Perhaps not so much locked out as being not quite as welcome as before. After all, it's the Brexiters who are all about ending the free travel across the continent, and common sense tells me that it might work both ways should we vote to leave. Not so much 'fear' as making contingency plans. Er, my friend that is....

[sfm818]

I think that's not the question - the question is if they can escape being locked out of the EU by getting an EU passport


Precisely. Do the younger generation, those with a more progressive outlook on Europe, want to hold a passport with the endorsement 'not entitled to benefit from EU provisions relating to employment or establishment '.

[t43562]

Interesting reference to being locked out of the EU; I must have missed the declaration that post-Brexit we British will be barred from travelling to EU member states. More Project Fear?

How can you get less migration to Britain if not by giving up migration the other way around too?

[Mil-26Man]

Mil-Man - I don't think any Brexiteer has suggested any such thing.
British passport holders still have to go through border control to access the continent; EU citizens still have pass through UK border controls to enter the UK as Britain is outside Schengen. Are you suggesting that UK passport holders will then face passport controls to travel between, say, France and Belgium?

I was afraid this would turn into a Brexit/Remain debate, but seeing as you ask I think that in the worst case scenario - yes, EU member states might very well introduce border controls for UK citizens who are outside of the EU. The best case scenario is that we just don't know. Given those options (and a lot more besides), I'll opt to stay in thank you very much.

We don't have the right of abode in the US, or Canada, or Australia either. We don't have the right to travel to these countries without forking out for ESTAs or Visas either. I don't worry too much about these countries as I don't travel to them every few weeks, as I do to the EU, and I don't have friends and family in those countries as I do in the EU either. Er, I mean my friend doesn't travel to them every few weeks, or have friends and family. :-|

Back to my original question, I have contacted the consulate for one of the countries I listed but am waiting to hear back. If anyone does have anything to offer in the meantime that would be gratefully received.

Thanks

[ORAC]

Mil-26Man, the difference being that, if they present a valid EU passport or ID, they cannot be denied entry.

[langleybaston]

Not only "forces brats", we "Civvies attached" also reproduced enthusiastically.

Two in Cyprus, one in BFG [and one qualified to play for Yorkshire, born in Thirsk].

[Haraka]

My wife was born in Nairobi of working English parents in Kenya pre- its independence in '64.
She had a U.K. passport from childhood. Post our marriage, she went for a "routine" renewal , only to be informed that she was not a British Citizen (having lived in U.K, since the early 70's and previously renewed her passports as such, without any questions raised ). As she was born Pre -Independence in Kenya she was not considered to be a Kenyan citizen either. Her status was, she was informed , as a British Subject, which apparently then made renewal problematical. However, it then transpired,since she was now married to a British Citizen, she could now, as Mrs. Haraka , have a U.K passport as a citizen .

P.S. As of 23rd May 2014 I am reputedly entitled to put "Cornish" as my nationality on my U.K Passport.... :) ( I haven't dare asked her yet if she wants Cornish nationality.)

[Onceapilot]

Having children born in Europe, we ensured that they were correctly registered as British only, with the Consulate. People should be aware that there are complicated regulations that can/could apply and, take advice beyond that on this forum if concerned.:uhoh:

OAP

[Saintsman]

Doesn't Cyprus still have national service?

Being a citizen of other countries may entail one or two unwelcome additions into the bargain.

[ion_berkley]

..all assuming dual citizenship is allowed. Unlike the UK, not all countries support this status, Germany in general doesn't which no doubt is the obvious passport of choice for ex-mil kids.
https://www.henleyglobal.com/dual-citizenship/

[melmothtw]

Haraka,

Is it not the case that every British person is a subject and not a citizen?

[Whenurhappy]

This is a particularly thorny issue for those with children born a broad, whilst in the Services. Our daughter was born in Italy in the early 2000s, in a US Naval Hospital and we thought we had correctly registered her through the BFG Registrars' office at the time. Passport duely granted and so on. However, when I went to get a new passport for our last Post, it transpired that she had only been given 'Protected Status' and not full UK citizenship. When I chased this up it was due to me being dual-national, apparently. We've managed to get it sorted out, for the moment at least. Edited to add that it seems that my daughter could now get an Italian passport - which is probably no bad thing.

But it was only a year ago I was asked by MOD (HOCS Sy) - again - to surrender my 'foreign' (FVEY) passport to get access to DII-S. The funny side is that in that job I have access to other, higher, UK systems, and had done so without issue for several years. grown-ups in the FCO put HOCS Sy right.

So, in sum, these problems, at least in my case, were nothing to do with the EU; rather to poor interpretation of the rules by the MOD.

[Pontius Navigator]

Doesn't Cyprus still have national service?

Being a citizen of other countries may entail one or two unwelcome additions into the bargain.
A colleague, now departed, was arrested on entering Canada on the grounds that he had evaded national service. He pointed out that he was serving in the RAF having been resident in UK most of his life and was there at the invitation of the CAF to lecture at their staff college. :)

[Bannock]

Anyone who has served in the USA and have had a child there and exercised their right to claim a US passport for them, beware. Upon age 18 wherever that child lives and works, they will be liable for tax on earnings . To avoid this, you need to visit a US embassy, renounce US Citizenship and pay $2500 for the privilege and of course, pay back any tax outstanding. Dual nationality is not recognised. Some horror stories starting to crop up. Eg 28 year old left the US when he was 1, took family to Disney and was arrested at immigration for tax evasion and hit with a six figure bill!

[riff_raff]

I was born in the US, and at the time my father was a Mexican immigrant serving in the US Army who married my mother, a US citizen, just prior to my birth. Thus I had dual US/Mexican citizenship until I turned 18 years old. At that time, under US law, in order to keep my US citizenship I was required to relinquish all other foreign citizenships.

While some countries allow adults to maintain multiple citizenships, the US does not. When you become a US citizen, you are required to reject allegiance to all foreign governments.

[Strangegravy]

While some countries allow adults to maintain multiple citizenships, the US does not. When you become a US citizen, you are required to reject allegiance to all foreign governments.

Not necessarily true. Have a read of this...

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal-considerations/us-citizenship-laws-policies/citizenship-and-dual-nationality/dual-nationality.html

[Haraka]

Quite interesting with the U.K. There are six types of British Nationality ( British Citizen,British Overseas Territories Citizen,British Overseas Citizen, British Subject, British National ( overseas) and British Protected Person).
My wife's problems started with some functionary putting the wrong status on her passport (Subject instead of Citizen) then another functionary in the British Embassy in Madrid refusing to accept the error. Be warned.

[melmothtw]

But again Haraka, are not ALL UK 'citizens' actually subjects under the law?


https://www.gov.uk/types-of-british-nationality/british-subject

It would seem that while the concept of citizenship is recognized, those who qualify are actually subjects and not citizens (unless you are an overseas citizen, oddly enough).

I've no doubt that your wife had problems with it - it appears to be something of a hodgepodge to say the least.

[Haraka]

Hi melmothtw possibly an issue of semantics here? Wife as a "Subject" was liable to fewer rights than as a "Citizen". So therefore,logically, citizenship provides greater privileges. That's how I understood it. Does your reference show any other interpretation?

[melmothtw]

Hi Haraka,

My understanding is that there is no such thing as a citizen in the UK, and that we are all subjects.

Would be interested to know if that's not the case.