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G-ARZG
11th Jun 2016, 12:14
Why,oh why, was Sky commentator, obviously ex-mil, banging on about the Lancaster in the flypast? Anyone else see a Lancaster??

Whiskey Tango F---

barnstormer1968
11th Jun 2016, 12:19
I'm waiting to see the fly past before I can comment. I did see a few stragglers that would be less than a third world Air Force could muster, but nothing that looked like the Royal Air Force in all its glory.

Wander00
11th Jun 2016, 12:38
Well spread out so it looked like there were more than were actually there

Union Jack
11th Jun 2016, 12:47
Well spread out so it looked like there were more than were actually there - Wander00

Which could apply both to the aircraft in the flypast and the members of the Royal Family on the balcony....:)

Jack

dctyke
11th Jun 2016, 12:49
Quote the sky commentator, biggest fly past for years. Two tornadoes and two typhoons from the modern combat force....... really!

Wander00
11th Jun 2016, 12:50
Looked to me like the Royal Family were out in force +1 with Princess Charlotte

Dougie M
11th Jun 2016, 13:00
If you exclude the Sparrows there were more Royals on the balcony than aircraft in the fly past. (cringeworthy)

sled dog
11th Jun 2016, 13:22
Where is the Lancaster ? AOG / maintenance ?
Really missed the sound....

Motleycallsign
11th Jun 2016, 13:29
Lanc still undergoing repairs after fire last year. Fireproofing the fuel tanks according to Look North recently, but due to fly later this month allegedly.

Bob Viking
11th Jun 2016, 13:32
Moan, moan, whinge, whinge. It was far better in my day blah, blah, blah...

I know old habits die hard but can we change the record?!

BV

MPN11
11th Jun 2016, 13:39
I feel sorry for HMQ, who has seen the skies filled with her Air Force in the past.

Yup, more Royals than aircraft. Bloody AWFUL :mad:

strake
11th Jun 2016, 14:24
To cheer everyone up, here's how the French do it - every year. As a resident, I have to say the whole show (not just the air bit) is pretty impressive.
Sorry about all the commentary - it's from the mixing desk so probably best turned down

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROFh3UtQ6vE

CoffmanStarter
11th Jun 2016, 14:24
For me ... the funniest part of proceedings was when the Parade Commanders horse decided he wanted to do something other than briefed ... Her Majesty seemed mightily amused ;)

ANGRYBEARD
11th Jun 2016, 15:25
I can remember being lucky enough to be in London 26 years ago for the Battle of Britain 50th anniversary fly past which would make anything look minor in comparison. Does anyone have any Info on types and numbers from then they could let me have?

A changed world I feel

Roly
11th Jun 2016, 15:25
Prince Andrew not in uniform. Why was that? Possibly, looking at him, he was too large for it.

dctyke
11th Jun 2016, 15:40
Prince Andrew not in uniform. Why was that? Possibly, looking at him, he was too large for it.

Eddy made up for it in his dapper mil outfit, not sure about five day stubble and army uniform though.

Wander00
11th Jun 2016, 15:43
Strake - nice video - thanks, but when did Patrouille de France go to 9 aircraft - previously when I have seen them at displays they have flown 8.


Roly - probably because he has never I believe been promoted above the rank he served in, and big bro is an AF. Don't believe he is Colonel of anything, but if we still had the ACC..........................

RAFEngO74to09
11th Jun 2016, 15:46
Virtual display 2016: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4Plt5hivTA

Actual Display 2016: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM1mZexQCqs

16 x Phantom 1992: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVNCc_bxAKs

RAF PR effort 2016:

Typhoon FGR4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ0NkaUyh6c

Tornado GR4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MLQzYoYJEU

Hercules: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJvsnjz2qM0

Chinook: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou9-VTvLJi8

Puma: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfbdLPemgDw

CoffmanStarter
11th Jun 2016, 15:57
EngO ... Well done finding that F4 clip ... Now that's a 'Flypast' :ok:

Wander00
11th Jun 2016, 16:03
Very dramatic- lovely

PAXfips
11th Jun 2016, 16:37
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/06/11/15/35279B4F00000578-3636413-image-a-192_1465653631290.jpg

Lancaster. Nope.

Evalu8ter
11th Jun 2016, 16:43
EngO,
Makes you realise what "Combat Mass" we've lost. That F4 16-ship sent shivers down my spine. Maybe the retention of the T1 Typhoons may permit something similar in the future (but would we have the hours to work up such a formation nowadays?).

dctyke,
Think the CH-47 leading the formation was an entirely appropriate example of the RAF's modern "combat force".......

Well done to all those who gave up their time to take part - including the ATC, fire crews and engineers who lost a Saturday as well without the pleasure of flying for HM.

MSOCS
11th Jun 2016, 16:45
Some of you lot are like a bunch of whining babies, but you're not babies, because you're clearly well past the realities of what today's Armed Forces a) have as resources and b) are committed to, overseas.

Just STFU and write to your MP if you're that bothered!

I for one thought it was a great show all round and very appropriate.

Tankertrashnav
11th Jun 2016, 17:13
MSOCS - I rather think you are missing the point.

We are well aware that with the resources now available the present day RAF is obviously unable to put on the sort of show that it did in the past. Whether HM is saluted by 30 aircraft or 90 (which would have been nice) is not really that important. What is far more important though is that many of us feel that because of political decisions made by governments of all colours, and some staggering inefficiency by MOD procurement, the RAF is now dangerously undermanned and under equipped in an increasingly unstable world.

That's the real gripe.

JW411
11th Jun 2016, 17:16
I could not agree more.

Lockstock
11th Jun 2016, 17:39
Well said MSOCS

Spot on.

Melchett01
11th Jun 2016, 17:39
I'm sure RAF Pravda, sorry, News will have a thumping boys own write up next week :E

GeeRam
11th Jun 2016, 18:01
Makes you realise what "Combat Mass" we've lost. That F4 16-ship sent shivers down my spine. Maybe the retention of the T1 Typhoons may permit something similar in the future (but would we have the hours to work up such a formation nowadays?).

Depressing really.

I seem to recall there was a 16-ship Bucc formation the following year that operated out of Manston.


No hope of ever again putting up the amount of a/c seen for the 1990 BofB 50th Anniversary flypast......:(

Union Jack
11th Jun 2016, 18:08
Roly - probably because he has never I believe been promoted above the rank he served in, and big bro is an AF. Don't believe he is Colonel of anything, but if we still had the ACC.......................... - Wander00

That's not really like you at all - Apart from holding the honorary rank of Vice Admiral and being Honorary Commodore of the Fleet Air Arm, I believe that HRH The Duke of York is.... Honorary Air Commodore of RAF Lossiemouth, Colonel-in Chief or Royal Colonel of five British regiments or corps, and Colonel-in-Chief of three Canadian regiments and one New Zealand regiment.:=

And no, I have no idea why he doesn't wear uniform on the Queen's Official Birthday....:D

Jack

Wander00
11th Jun 2016, 18:32
In that case I stand corrected and humbly apologise - and even more I cannot understand why he was not in uniform

H Peacock
11th Jun 2016, 18:35
I know the flypast is designed so that it is seen by a lot of people, and I'm not looking to see the jetwash cause chaos in the Mall (97-iot grad flypast at Cranwell!) but the limited spectacle created by most of the elements flying so so high could be somewhat improved. It is a shame that no one has the b---s to approve a reduction in the msd for the flypast.

That said, well done to the boys and girls for putting on the best show the Op Order allowed.

Wander00
11th Jun 2016, 18:39
PS -I guess we don't want to get in a discussion on his daughters' dress sense - Mrs W waxes lyrical on the topic. great thing is it distracts her from commenting on what passes for mine!

Chugalug2
11th Jun 2016, 19:15
TTN:-
MSOCS - I rather think you are missing the point.
Well, with respect I think that many who have posted here have. This was the 64th Trooping of the Colour that the Queen has attended, and at 90 Years old perhaps one to be especially celebrated. Certainly the large crowds that were there thought so. A huge amount of work to make it so has been put in by those on parade, in the flypast, and as Evalu8tor reminds us, behind the scenes. So let's just give them a, "Very well done ladies and gentlemen all!". No matter the size of a formation, even I know that getting it o/h at exactly P-hour begins way back.

Comments about how small is the RAF (or the RN, or the Army) is something for another place, another time, and not triggered simply because of a flypast. I certainly enjoyed watching the parade and flypast on tele. Whether they were good or otherwise I will leave to the CinC, who has an eye for these things. At some time in the future we will have an ex-professional pilot for Monarch. No doubt the station keeping o/h will then also be part of the wash-up over sippers that the Household Division presently experiences!

salad-dodger
11th Jun 2016, 21:41
**A friendly reminder to please play the ball and not the man.
YHS
T28B**

Warmtoast
11th Jun 2016, 23:33
ANGRYBEARD

I can remember being lucky enough to be in London 26 years ago for the Battle of Britain 50th anniversary fly past which would make anything look minor in comparison. Does anyone have any Info on types and numbers from then they could let me have?

Can't help you with composition of BoB 50th Anniversary flypast, but go back a few years and here's what flew past the Queen at the Coronation Review at Odiham.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/CompositionoftheFly-past.jpg

NutLoose
12th Jun 2016, 01:40
I see health and safety at work has finally reached Betty, one hopes that was a hard hat in disguise and the stitching and buttons on her natty coat were reflective....

Seriously though, congratulations ma'am, as someone quite rightly pointed out, how she manages to do the things she does at her age is beyond me, nothing seems to phase her.

As for Edward and his uniform... It wouldn't look out of place on an African warlord, it's got everything sown on it including the curtain pelmets, surprising really considering he left the military before breakfast.

Trooping the Colour Uniforms and Medals Meanings : People.com (http://www.people.com/people/package/gallery/0,,20395222_20926647_30341508,00.html)

The blurb explains Andrew not being in uniform.

Prince Andrew, Duke of York, does not wear a uniform as he served in the Royal Navy and only the Guards Division, which makes up the Foot Guards and London Regiment of the British Army, march in the event.)


Found this on Charles interesting

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2053510/Not-corgis-A-new-book-reveals-intriguing-secrets-royal-life.html

I must remember to iron my shoe laces.

fallmonk
12th Jun 2016, 05:56
Can any tell me why no E-3D
Sentry ??
Big part of the modern RAF , would have thought it would be there on display.

Chugalug2
12th Jun 2016, 07:19
Nutloose, couldn't agree more about Edward. The combination of the wearer, being the most unmilitary of all his siblings, dressed in a Gilbert and Sullivan confection that supposedly constitutes the dress uniform of a Colonel of the London Scottish, all topped off with a kilo or two of bling (which hopefully TTN can run us through), adds a comic touch that is possibly unintended.

Warmtoast, that certainly is an impressive turnout for the 1953 Odiham flypast! The pilots' names of the Ministry of Supply formation at the tail end are a Boy's Own list of aviation heroes in their own right! Interesting that the three ship Lyneham Hastings were led by an SAAF Major. Now I wonder what his nickname was?

**A friendly reminder to please play the ball and not the man.
YHS
T28B**

NutLoose
12th Jun 2016, 08:05
Chug, the link explains them all


Prince Edward rounds out the list of royals who currently wear military uniforms to the Trooping the Colour. (Prince Andrew, Duke of York, does not wear a uniform as he served in the Royal Navy and only the Guards Division, which makes up the Foot Guards and London Regiment of the British Army, march in the event.) In 2014, he wore the dress uniform for the London Scottish Regiment, where he serves as royal honorary colonel. In addition to the Order of the Garter sash (hidden beneath the red sash of his uniform) and star, Edward also wore a star for the Royal Victorian Order (not to be confused with the Royal Victorian Chain that Philip wears, which is an award and not a chivalric order).

NutLoose
12th Jun 2016, 08:14
he wears the Silver Jubilee Medal, the Golden Jubilee Medal, the Diamond Jubilee Medal and the New Zealand Commemorative Medal.

Medals, braid, sashes: what exactly are the military uniforms worn by the Royal family? - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/theroyalfamily/11471375/Medals-braid-sashes-what-exactly-are-the-military-uniforms-worn-by-the-Royal-family.html)

Odd, isn't it that most of the serving military never got the Silver Jubilee medal, but he got one.
Mind you medal wise, and in the scheme of awards they are just a bit of bling, rather like McDonalds stars.
Shame they never did a short service award, he would have qualified for that, I wonder if he sent off for his veterans badge :E

GeeRam
12th Jun 2016, 08:59
I can remember being lucky enough to be in London 26 years ago for the Battle of Britain 50th anniversary fly past which would make anything look minor in comparison. Does anyone have any Info on types and numbers from then they could let me have?

http://www.westwoodworks.net/reminisences/images/1990-Battle-Of-Britain-Flypast.jpg

Nige321
12th Jun 2016, 09:30
The absence of the Lancaster has nothing to do with last year's engine fire...

Lancaster
The BBMF Lancaster, PA474, has yet to take to the air this year, as some readers will be aware. The principal reason for this is the delayed decision by the BBMF [Engineering] Project Team (PT) – which project manages the Flight’s aircraft maintenance and support contracts – to have the bomber’s fuel tanks serviced and refurbished. The BBMF had wanted this activity to commence in October, but unfortunately the decision to proceed, which had to come from the PT, was not taken until December.

The petrol tanks – 3 in each wing, 6 in total – were then removed from the ‘Lanc’ and sent away to be inspected, repaired and recovered with new fire-resistant material.

With the fuel tanks removed from the Lancaster’s wings some additional inspections could be carried out. The entire fuel and vent system pipework was discovered to be suffering from age-hardening of the hoses. The decision was taken to replace them, and 26 new hoses were ordered and have now been fitted. In addition, new fire-resistant sleeving was added to the aircraft’s fuel pipes, to provide additional protection that was not present in the original design. The inspection of the wings inner recesses also revealed that some internal wing angle brackets were cracked and required replacing. Ten new brackets were manufactured and fitted. A tank panel angle bracket for the No 1 tanks was also found to be cracked and was replaced.

The fuel tanks were returned to the Flight during the second week of April, but could not immediately be refitted until the other work was completed. Four of the tanks had been re-fitted to the Lancaster by 3rd May and the last two were back in place a few days later. After the Lancaster has been ‘panelled up’ the fuel system will be calibrated and engines runs completed.

The expectation is that the Lancaster will, hopefully, be ready for air test at the end of May and, all being well, will be able to continue with its display commitments from early June once the Lancaster pilots’ Public Display Approval (PDA) has been granted. There will inevitably be some people who will be disappointed that the Lancaster is not available for events in May, but the ‘pay-off’ for completing this extra work on the Lancaster at this stage is that it will not be required as part of the planned ‘major’ servicing for the aircraft, due to commence at Duxford at the end of this display season.

BEagle
12th Jun 2016, 09:46
So, 168 aeroplanes in 1990.....and no helicopters.

Which shows only too clearly by just how much the RAF and FAA have been decimated by defence cuts over the past 26 years..:mad:

Unfortunately I missed seeing it at the time as I was at my brother's wedding in Yorkshire.

langleybaston
12th Jun 2016, 10:24
QUOTE:

the Guards Division, which makes up the Foot Guards and London Regiment of the British Army

who writes this/ these cobblers?

Tankertrashnav
12th Jun 2016, 10:56
all topped off with a kilo or two of bling (which hopefully TTN can run us through), adds a comic touch that is possibly unintended.

Nutloose has pretty well done it for me - thanks. All I can add is the Canadian Forces Decoration, the Honorary Member of the Saskatchewan Order of Merit and the Commemorative Medal for the Centennial of Saskatchewan (I confess I had to consult Wiki for the last two!) . As regards his Silver Jubilee Medal, it's pretty standard for all members of the royal family to receive any coronation and jubilee medals going. Prince Charles and Princess Anne have the 1953 Coronation Medal, an event which took place when they were four and two respectively!

Chugalug2
12th Jun 2016, 11:13
Thanks TTN. He is obviously highly regarded by Saskatchewan anyway! A fellow Flight Cadet had the honour of being the only one of our entry to sport a medal, having sung in the choir at the Coronation. It was a no brainer for DIs and the CWO, and earned him many defaulters parades as a result.

No doubt these days they are cast in stay-bright or some other labour saving material, or is there still the requirement to resort to arcane alchemy to make them shine without staining the ribbon? I only ask as my sole gong, a GSM and bar, poses a last minute panic every Remembrance Day!

barnstormer1968
12th Jun 2016, 11:24
QUOTE:

the Guards Division, which makes up the Foot Guards and London Regiment of the British Army

who writes this/ these cobblers?


Langley, shhhhhhhh.............if we pick holes in the media comments someone will be along to ask which gaurds unit the Royal Horse Artillery is in :)

Martin the Martian
12th Jun 2016, 18:08
What it did show is that it's not just jet fighters and the Red Arrows. Though perhaps we did miss the opportunity to put up the Typhoon force in a '90' formation.

MSOCS
12th Jun 2016, 18:31
Perhaps the circle part of the 9 could be achieved. I hate to break the news to the hard-of-understanding (yet again), the rest are committed to QRA North and South, the Baltic NATO mission, the Falklands, and Op SHADER.

We had jets coming out of our ears before 2003. Since then we've value stream analysed ourselves into the most cost-effective Force we can afford and justify to the Treasury.

MPN11
12th Jun 2016, 18:37
Chugalug2 ... I have read [here or on AARSE] that a rubber [eraser for our US friends] is supposed to achieve results. I have no practical experience, being bare-chested ;)

Pontius Navigator
12th Jun 2016, 19:33
MPN11, button stick works too. I have my uncle's, late Australian Military Force.

Chugalug2
12th Jun 2016, 20:00
Thanks MPN11, sounds very eco-friendly, though I'm glad that you translated for our cousins, lest we be suspected of weird practices. ;-)

Thanks also PN. I must have handed in my own button stick, but strangely have never been parted from my housewife, well both of them if you see what I mean...or does that sound weird as well?

sitigeltfel
12th Jun 2016, 20:17
Strake - nice video - thanks, but when did Patrouille de France go to 9 aircraft - previously when I have seen them at displays they have flown 8.

As it is a flypast, and not a display, Athos 9 (the spare) gets to join the show.

Parson
13th Jun 2016, 08:52
Appreciate that the Air Force is a shadow of its former self but was still a poor show.

Couldn't we have managed 4 x Typhoons and 4 x Tornados on their own? And 4 x BBMF fighters? Also, no Tucanos?

And where were the FAA & AAC?

teeteringhead
13th Jun 2016, 10:05
Some points to add to this pleasantly drifted thread!

PS -I guess we don't want to get in a discussion on his daughters' dress sense - Mrs W waxes lyrical on the topic. 1. Milady Teeters has what I imagine are similar views on TRHs Beatrice and Eugenie; she refers to them as the "Yorkie Bars", which can cause confusion to those overhearing our conversations!

2. Rubbers/erasers are indeed good for medal cleaning; the ones on the end of pencils seem to be easiest to manage (no need for button stick to preserve the ribbon!)

3. My spies tell me that a 100 aircraft flypast is planned for April 2018 ........ :E

Martin the Martian
13th Jun 2016, 12:55
Are single engined Tucanos allowed to fly overhead central London, or do they have a dispensation like the REds and the BBMF?

And I was being sarcastic about TYphoons doing a '90' formation.

Dougie M
13th Jun 2016, 13:53
The day now belongs to the Pongos. I once dropped the Falcons into Horse Guards with instructions to the jumpers to "Pull for the Thames" if there were any canopy malfunctions. Since then the square bashers, donkey wallopers and pony artillery have it all to themselves. The fisheads have no look-in (maybe that's why the Duke of York was in mufti) so mayhap the RAF should content itself with the show closing Reds flypast and spare all those lads defending the Realm a lost weekend.

ACW367
13th Jun 2016, 14:22
Another factor now is Heathrow is more slot constrained. To get the flypast through they have to stop the Heathrow flow. For a nine element flypast (3min 30sec) like this one, Heathrow lose three arrival and three departure movements which they have to make up by stressing the system either side of the flypast. For the sixteen element flypast like 1990 Heathrow wouldn't now allow it. While you can make elements bigger (four ship/nine ship) we are never likely to see such a big one (in terms of separate elements) again over the Palace.

The Oberon
13th Jun 2016, 14:24
The day now belongs to the Pongos. I once dropped the Falcons into Horse Guards with instructions to the jumpers to "Pull for the Thames" if there were any canopy malfunctions. Since then the square bashers, donkey wallopers and pony artillery have it all to themselves. The fisheads have no look-in (maybe that's why the Duke of York was in mufti) so mayhap the RAF should content itself with the show closing Reds flypast and spare all those lads defending the Realm a lost weekend.
I think there is something about having to wear mufti if your parent service isn't part of Londiv or on parade but I don't know if that excludes medals. I do wonder about Harry's beard though.

Pontius Navigator
13th Jun 2016, 15:16
Instead of the RAF, as it is an Army show, how about TeeneyWeeney doing the flying bit?

Sandy Parts
13th Jun 2016, 15:49
ACW367 - you may be right but there has certainly been a relatively 'large' flypast since 1990. Can't remember the occasion but certainly remember the sight from the Mighty Hunter's beam window. It looked like a WWII dogfight movie as the RAF's finest collection of (very) dis-similar types turned, climbed and/or descended while adjusting speeds like mad to get (relatively) assembled prior to bimbling up the mall. The wetties reckoned they could have got a direct hit with a yoghurt from the C or D launcher :)
Don't forget the mandatory practice days that the boys and girls would have needed before some Duty Holder would have signed it off. Doing display/flypast stuff was fun but still meant a working weekend so well done to all involved.

Wycombe
13th Jun 2016, 20:50
Aside from the lack of combat a/c, the other thing I wondered was why the 146 was put behind the C17 - looked like a bit of an uncomfortable ride!

Sveneng
14th Jun 2016, 13:23
Aside from the lack of combat a/c, the other thing I wondered was why the 146 was put behind the C17 - looked like a bit of an uncomfortable ride!

It wasn't the C17 causing the uncomfortable ride. That suffered from the same turbulent air, just to a lesser degree.

Hangarshuffle
14th Jun 2016, 19:04
Half watched it b for a few seconds as I was at work but I thought it an appropriate flypast in keeping for our leaner times. I actually didn't know we had some of those aircraft. Why no UAV? (because face it they're the future) (unless I missed it - serious question is it not allowed to fly alongside other aircraft etc?
Agree with some the Royals looked a bit too over dressed and blingy - need to stow the uniforms and wear gongs they genuinely deserve.

Dominator2
14th Jun 2016, 19:07
I'm sure that in the planning for the flypast the Standard Turbulence Separation Distances were applied for each category of aircraft? Either that or the elements were 500/1000ft vertically separated? Flying 30 seconds behind a Voyager or an Atlas, at the same height, is most probably not too comfortable