Life Insurance for flying into War Zones [Archive]

czechmate

5th Jun 2016, 06:58

Given EK's operation into Afghanistan and Iraq, I am wondering which life insurance company the pilots of those aircraft use? In my research most, if not all companies (including the APC recommended Oman Group) specifically exclude acts of war and terrorism in these countries.

Daily 777 into Kabul, Basra and Baghdad as of December...

White Knight

5th Jun 2016, 08:03

Daily 777 into Kabul, Basra and Baghdad as of December...

Oh the poor dears:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Talparc

5th Jun 2016, 08:39

Its on your own risk no insurance in the world will cover this risk.
And your life insurance and loss of license won't pay!
But be assured according TCAS Kabul is the safest Airport in the world as there is plenty of military around.

Monarch Man

5th Jun 2016, 11:19

Oh the poor dears

WK, if I recall correctly, this question was asked numerous times when the 330/340 was etc doing these trips. Perhaps from your lofty position you would care to enlighten us unelightened brethren of your knowledge? Given your answer, laden with sarcasm such as it is, suggests you know more than you are letting on? i.e. are the crew insured?

donpizmeov

5th Jun 2016, 12:49

Go to aircraft docs folder and you will find the insurance bit which states What is and What is not covered. Personal insurance cover for this is not widely covered, however a Google search will show who does it, and at what premium.

White Knight

5th Jun 2016, 13:18

Given your answer, laden with sarcasm such as it is, suggests you know more than you are letting on? i.e. are the crew insured?

MM. I have NO idea! Neither do I care now, nor did I when I flew the Baghdad or Basra flights... On the old fleet of course... Hence the sarcasm!

Talparc got it right:D

helen-damnation

5th Jun 2016, 20:26

czechmate

Here's the link for the APC insurance. Page 26, 1.2 makes no mention of the exclusion.

http://aircrewprotection.org/files/API_Rules_adopted.pdf

13.3.8 makes ref to deliberate exposure to exceptional danger but I believe P26 1.2 covers you.

$100,000 cover with membership, you can purchase upto $500,000. I'm looking into it myself.
H-D

TCU LUX

6th Jun 2016, 06:17

HD,

Page 26 states that the Death Benefits are subject to the terms and conditions of Oman Insurance Company. I doubt very much that they would be any different to the other insurers....I.e. will not payout!

This is a very serious issue for all of us with families working in EK. We are basically uninsured when flying into these 'wars zones'. We should all be refusing to operate to Iraq or Kabul etc until we have confirmation from the company, in writing, that we are specifically covered for acts of 'war'. Not that the paper it would be written on is worth much I suppose!!!

As always I don't expect that the company would do anything to protect us or to make our lives better. The company doesn't care about us or our families. Employment conditions at EK only get worse - note to potential new joiners (if you've already failed to comprehend the numerous other threads!!)

South Prince

6th Jun 2016, 07:11

Hi Lux, is very very expensive to insure "something" that visits a war zone, ver strange that this issue been raised only now.

Talparc

6th Jun 2016, 07:51

guys stay away from those places, you wana risk your life for an inhuman company?

donpizmeov

6th Jun 2016, 11:48

Check the insurance stuff in the docs folder.

helen-damnation

14th Jun 2016, 05:29

http://www.mondialdubai.com/api#

WHAT IS PASSIVE WAR RESTRICTION & TERRORISM?
PWRT Coverage

PWRT coverage will pay the death benefit in the event of a claim arising indirectly as a consequence of war, invasion, act of foreign enemies, hostilities or war-like operations (whether war be declared or not), civil war, mutiny, civil commotion amounting to popular uprising, military uprising, insurrection, rebellion, riot if you are acting within the scope of your employment as an Emirates pilot, whether flying or on the ground.

HOWEVER, no benefit is payable if you voluntarily, willfully AND acting outside the scope of an Emirates employee or flight crew go to a country or an area where:

a) the British Government Foreign and Commonwealth Office advises against ‘all travel; or

b) go to, and remain, for a period of more than 28 days per stay in a country or an area where the British Government Foreign and Commonwealth Office advises against 'all but essential travel'.

UNLESS additional PWRT coverage is purchased.

natops

14th Jun 2016, 05:49

Press #2, I feel sorry for the guys on reserve. That might be me at some point.

The.Humble.Guy

19th Jun 2016, 11:09

Gents, I've trolled all threads for information on Life Insurance but not finding what I'm looking for. Can anyone recommend a decent company in Dubai for Life Insurance Cover? I am currently insured by Friends Provident but I would like to ad my wife to the policy also but exploring the possibility of switching to a different company if coverage is better. Many thanks.

parabellum

20th Jun 2016, 23:22

PWRT coverage will pay the death benefit in the event of a claim arising indirectly as a consequence of war, invasion, act of foreign enemies, hostilities or war-like operations (whether war be declared or not), civil war, mutiny, civil commotion amounting to popular uprising, military uprising, insurrection, rebellion, riot if you are acting within the scope of your employment as an Emirates pilot, whether flying or on the ground.

If this passage is included in the policy wording of the PA policy EK gives to its crews then you are covered.

If it were me and I wanted additional cover, I would find a London broker, explain fully the situation, (including company cover and above quoted passage), and let them find you insurance in the London market, where there are several PA specialists. You could start here: https://www.google.com.au/#q=Personal+Accident+brokers+in+London

fatbus

21st Jun 2016, 08:49

Where can you find out the active war zones where you are questioning the coverage?

glofish

22nd Jun 2016, 04:29

Spare your money. If anything happens to you in countries like Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, even Iran, Yemen and a lot in Africa, especially the Sahel belt, any insurance, and i mean ANY, will back off and refrain from even touching your entitlement with a chopstick.
The officially declared "warzones" and the zones that will arbitrarely and in the aftermath of an event be declared "risk zones" have two completely different maps!

I wouldn't trust any insurance more than EK, and that eans a lot.

White Knight

22nd Jun 2016, 09:48

glofish

22nd Jun 2016, 12:22

Is that right Glofish? Are you an insurance broker? Thought you were a pilot?
Just asking.........

Yeah WK, you're asking me. Spectacularly easy on this site, as usual.

But i had asked the tough and right questions to a few brokers, because i was concerned.
Now take a wild guess why i came to the above conclusions .....

Flyingishere

23rd Jun 2016, 07:00

Is that right Glofish? Are you an insurance broker? Thought you were a pilot?

Just asking.........

Don't you know people on social media are experts on everything and know the opinion of every single person involved in that industry.

glofish

23rd Jun 2016, 10:20

.... and simply trashing on anyone who posts an opinion, be it an informed one or just a articulated opinion, is sooooo much more intelligent and worth a trumplike contribution.

back to the thread ......

Ask your broker the following (always considered on the job):

Would you pay if i get shot down over a officially declared warzone (Iraq, Yemen)?
Would you pay if i succumb to a terrorist act (9/11, Shoebomber), declared before or after the act?
Would you pay if i got arrested after an incident in one of the following countries (i.e. P,A,Y,I) and would die in jail? Would it matter if i was "convicted" of some phoney crime or not?
Would you pay if i succumb to a suicidal act (Germanwings), be it mentally or religiously motivated?

Add all the answers, most of them will be "it depends" anyway, and then make an informed decision if it is worth spending your money for such an insurance.

I bet most of you will then come to similar conclusions as me, maybe not Whitey or the flying anywhere though as they know better i guess.

ExDubai

23rd Jun 2016, 11:20

Sometimes I'm missing the "Like/Thanks" Button.

parabellum

24th Jun 2016, 02:19

Glofish - Within the London market there are PA specialists who will cover war zones, the broker you should approach will be an accredited Lloyd's Broker, i.e. a broker who is licensed to do business within Lloyd's. The premium will depend on the amount of exposure, number of trips annually within a war zone for example. Your average high street broker won't have a clue.

donpizmeov

24th Jun 2016, 11:11

Lloyd's has a bad reputation with paying up for this cover. But there are other companies that do. But you pay a premium. These policies are designed more for contractors in situ rather than airline crews.
As I have said before, read the aircraft insurance paperwork on board and you will see what cover you have.

parabellum

26th Jun 2016, 22:05

Don - Lloyd's is not just one underwriter, it is hundreds all doing business, as syndicates, in their own name but under the umbrella of Lloyd's. If one underwriter has been bad paying out you cannot tar the entire enterprise with the same brush!

There are also conglomerates of companies that operate parallel to Lloyd's. A broker works for the customer but is paid by the underwriter, strange but true, a good broker will be responsible for resolving any disputes about pay-outs. Single biggest cause for an underwriter rejecting a claim is non disclosure of essential information by the insured, again, something a broker should ensure doesn't happen.