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Pixy
2nd Jun 2016, 12:35
Well the long awaited salary review is out. And it's nothing less than depressing and insulting. The analysis and perspective:

Everyone gets a 3% step. Originally this was contractual and automatic each year. The principles behind it were years of service, loyalty, experience etc. More recently it was sold as a salary increase - It's not. The basic scale has not moved since May 2011 apart from 0.5% representing about a (180 Dhs) USD 50 increase per month for a new joiner. Not impressive for half a decade. The trend also should give pause for thought for those planning to join or the many I know who are planning their departure in the next 1 to 5 years.

The 5 extra steps are long overdue but only affect around 2% of the pilots. They also introduce a problem. Those on who had just reached step 30 will smoothly go to step 31. Those who have been on step 30 for a few years have lost out. The reality was when they increased the retirement age from 60 to 65 they should have put the 5 steps on then but didn't. So our most senior and experienced captains have had slap in the face in some respects. They should actually adjust them to where they should be in the step 31 to 35 hierarchy. They should also back pay. Not likely - but the honorable thing to do.

What must be appreciated is that the salary scale has overall been decreased in real terms by stopping its advance for 5 years (apart from 0.5%) and frozen at the top. Thus a pay cut thru inflation.

Inflation in the UAE over the past 5 years:
2012 - 0.67%
2013 - 1.1%
2014 - 2.35%
2015 - 4.07%
2016 - 3.2%

These compound to 11.9% in 5 years against a 0.5% salary scale movement. Buyer beware: Consider where this might end up in another 5 years with the effects of compounding cost of living.

Flying pay increase is token. A captain averaging 75 productivity hours over the year (taking leave into account) will get an extra USD 160 (600 Dhs) per month. This is a 1.3% increase for a mid range captain salary, decreasing to 1% at the top.

For an FO this is an extra USD 100 (375) Dhs for 75 hours or a 1.25% increase on mid range FO salary.

Assuming you do a brutal 10 hours overtime (productivity) Captains will get an extra USD 95 (350 Dhs) and FO's USD 70 (250 Dhs) from last year. It's worth noting this adjustment was last done in 2010 where productivity increased by 14% in the height of recession. This increase is 6% after 6 years. UAE inflation over the same time is approx 13%

It's also worth noting that productivity is approximately half the cost per hour as a new pilot. Hence the days of 100 or more hours per month are here to stay. It is deliberately being used to keep pilot numbers low as after they reach the productivity threshold they start working at half price. This was denied vehemently at a forum but no one took the protests too seriously it seems.

I won't even go into the productivity not paid above the pro-rata threshold when leave is involved. The email on days off after leave would be simpler to word as thus: "Don't waste a bid on days off before or after leave. We plan to make you work it back without being compensated on productivity." They had an opportunity to resolve this injustice but failed to even acknowledge the problem and then notified us how they would capitalize on it. I suggest EGHQ staff should work nights after they have taken leave. Record profits - much from recovering crew leave.

The introduction of ground duty pay could have been a welcome addition if it contributed to productivity. It would have had the effect of balancing duty hours between fleets. Ultimately paying based on Duty hours would solve many issues at the airline and stop the endless fiddling. It would also indirectly resolve issues around fatigue, leave etc. Getting paid for your time at work should not be too difficult a concept.

The logic behind it is even more staggering. Last time I looked most of my turnaround time was preparing the aircraft for departure. It seems a little odd that this is paid for and recognized as work when I'm in Dammam but not when I'm in Dubai which is a far more complex airport. Why not simply pay for any ground time? Assuming 10 turnarounds in a month, a captain gets the princely sum of 750 Dhs and an FO 500 Dhs. If doing 10 turnarounds, duty time is likely to have gone up 30-50% and days off halved!

And not including ground time in the Productivity credit is even more questionable. I thought this critical time when very serious errors can be made would have been the prime candidate. But apparently not productive. It says a lot about the way we are regarded. Had it been treated as flying pay many problems would be resolved.

With regards to ground duty time I think it's a good idea in principle but badly introduced and thought through. I think it will come back to haunt them. I can't see too many delays between 50 to 60 minutes occurring... Paying for all ground time would mitigate this. The jump in pay at 60 minutes is effectively infinite.

Keeping track of remuneration is likely to cost as much in man hours as simply paying all duty at one rate. Working out what pay one should have got will also be an interesting exercise.

Delaying some of the salary increments to August is cheap. Really? After record profits it does not do the Brand any favours. Considering that this could all have been done in a couple of days with a few basic spreadsheets to model costs, the pay review should have been out before May and all effective on the 1st May. 2 years ago Flying Pay increases were delayed until July, this year until August. It appears to be a nickel-and-diming situation. Or gross negligence or inefficiency.

Why the delays to release the actual figures. A promise of caring followed by increases that don't even match inflation. And a depressing message that salaries will continue to be driven down in real terms.

I give it:
• 1 for Leadership / Teamwork / Support
• 1 for Application of (Established) Procedures
• 2 for Workload Management
• 1 for Problem Solving and Decision Making
• 2 for Communications

I'm glad I don't have to grade the hard skills.

There it is. Until next year. Fly safe.

puff m'call
2nd Jun 2016, 14:08
Awesome post Pixy and so true!!

lospilotos
2nd Jun 2016, 16:48
Pixy nails it again!

plt330
2nd Jun 2016, 18:24
What a negative post !! nothing seems to make you happy ....

airborneksa
2nd Jun 2016, 18:39
This is the same in Oman, cost of living going higher, fuel and food prices higher month after month too.

Mach.888
2nd Jun 2016, 19:01
What a negative post !! nothing seems to make you happy ....
The truth hurts ! Right ?

Kapitanleutnant
2nd Jun 2016, 19:15
Plt330..

So... you're happy with the pay review I take it?
You're happy with a grand total of 95 USD effective increase in your pay?
You're happy with the rest of it all?

There's always someone in the crowd with a skewed look at the same thing most others agree on.

K

mmorel
2nd Jun 2016, 19:15
Cost of living in united states is going up to , house pricing is increased 15% from last year but the salary did not raise and no one is complaining .

Why do you think they have to increase salary when pther things are get more expensive?

gardenshed
2nd Jun 2016, 19:22
So you obviously enjoy seeing your standard of living going down every year.

BigGeordie
2nd Jun 2016, 19:49
They don't have to increase the salary because things get more expensive. They have to increase the salary because they need to get 600 pilots a year to move to Dubai- and maybe even persuade some of the ones who are already there to stay. There was a nod to the retention problem by increasing the number of payscale steps to 35.

donpizmeov
2nd Jun 2016, 20:07
250 newbies in the first 5 months.

Pixy
2nd Jun 2016, 20:55
Response

I shouldn't really engage but what else is there to do when you can't sleep on a short layover many time zones different..

plt300

Not sure of your point. It's an analysis that's all. Data driven facts. If you have a better one then please let's hear it but I think the figures stack up. You got some more money so you're delighted. That seems a little pedestrian. I suspect you hardly understand the nuances. But please appreciate that I can hardly be joyous when aviation salaries, in real terms, are falling, year after year. I have enough pride in the profession not to condone that. Nor can I claim satisfaction when an opportunity to correct, make equitable and simplify a convoluted remuneration scheme is lost. Especially when it could probably be done at minimal cost, with less fatigue, more transparently and result in better satisfaction for all, Company included. I see it as disappointing.

mmorel

I'm not sure what to say to your comment. Following your logic, can I assume that year on year as things get more expensive due to consumer inflation that you will be happy with the same salary? How long until you actually do complain? If you think no one in the US is complaining then you've been watching too much CNN. Take your comment to its ultimate conclusion and you will be living on a bowl of rice a day. Wasn't that that the Chinese model? Are you are a closet communist? Perhaps you are simply a troll. If it's good enough for you then you will wind up hungry but happy. But it's not good enough for me. I don't believe it's unreasonable for salaries to keep up with cost of living. Especially within a record profit company.

Off to bed. Thanks for the entertainment. I'll let it be now.

stable_checked
2nd Jun 2016, 21:08
I currently work for an orange low cost. Last time I checked the Captain's basic salary was 36140DHS. If I understood well from the above there are are 35 pay points, 1 for each year of service increasing at 3% each one. So 36140DHS increases by 3% every year?

K9
2nd Jun 2016, 21:11
Another well researched post Pixy.

Ignore the trolls...It is not worth the effort.

To be fair to that lot in the bouncy castle, I think some of them try and probably share your sentiments. But until a few short sighted individuals move on things can only change slowly or under duress. I suspect that's why it all took so long to come out in bits and pieces. :ugh:

Keep the posts coming. :ok:

InnocentBystander
3rd Jun 2016, 00:10
Problem is that Dubai is broke and Emirates needs Pilots. So they tried, in their infinite arrogance, to do both: Making it look like they increase pay to attract new joiners and keep geezers around a few more years as well as secure the profit payments to the Dubai Government by not ACTUALLY paying that much more.

They've failed at either goal.

Posts like these are pretty good at documenting that the "pay review" is actually just a smoke and mirror exercise at pretending to increase the pay significantly while actually not doing much at all.

Going through my rosters over the last year and parse how many turns, DXB sign-ins and ground delays and diversion I've had, I've calculated that I'd get about a 5000 dhs increase PER YEAR... Which comes out to about 1% pay raise.

Not enough to continue to risk my medical for this... So, yeah. Bye bye.

Only question is how many potential new joiners are going to be deterred by this?

Bring Back The Biff
3rd Jun 2016, 01:57
But more importantly, I'm not feeling nutured...

Yarra
3rd Jun 2016, 03:12
BBTB....But more importantly, I'm not feeling nutured...

Did you leave out an "E" or an "R" ?

BLOGGSON
3rd Jun 2016, 04:29
Haha perhaps we have all been neutered.

fatbus
3rd Jun 2016, 04:56
Outstanding post Pixy.

777-200LR
3rd Jun 2016, 05:22
So you become a so called 'troll' when you disagree with the negative masses?

drop kick
3rd Jun 2016, 08:22
If you are considering joining you would do well to read the posts by Pixy, he always tells it as it is with a degree of objectivity that is hard to emulate with all the negative emotions Emirates generate. I wish i d had such foresight.

ExDubai
3rd Jun 2016, 09:33
What a negative post !! nothing seems to make you happy ....
I'm missing your "if you are not happy leave"

nakbin330
3rd Jun 2016, 09:56
Well said Pixi. As always, an excellent perspective.

nakbin330
3rd Jun 2016, 10:39
250 newbies in the first 5 months.

It's rumoured that the 'pool' has all but dried up.

palm
3rd Jun 2016, 10:50
Pixi, well said and so true.

kingpost
3rd Jun 2016, 12:03
250 in 5 months is not a true reflection of the health status, it's the nett amount that's important! You'll always hear how great recruitment is, and granted, the numbers are good, but for every 3 coming in, one is out the door!!

donpizmeov
3rd Jun 2016, 12:08
Too true Kingpost. 250 through the door, pilot list increased by 98. I am sure the extra 35c per month ground allowance will fix this.

Talparc
3rd Jun 2016, 12:11
Aiza: you are the king of the Muppets! Congrats!

ExDubai
3rd Jun 2016, 13:57
Talparc, there is a golden rule regarding trolls.....

gardenshed
3rd Jun 2016, 16:07
Tis also rumoured that fleet are asking guys to delay there exit due to crewing issues.

ruserious
3rd Jun 2016, 17:14
I see that parking fees have risen by over 100% in Dubai and the periods of free parking reduced drastically, just as well there is no inflation

TangoUniform
3rd Jun 2016, 21:12
there are people with way low salaries then yours who work for more hours than you yet they dont whine about inflation on an internet forum. wasnt QOL your problem ?
So what's your point? There are airlines out there that pay twice as much as ours and fly 2/3 of the hours. And many are leaving for them. And those who you say aren't complaining haven't had any pay raise in about 4 years. And you for sure know that they're not complaining? Idiot! Guess I just don't know where to find the B.C. Costa goers' Internet forum.

stable_checked
4th Jun 2016, 07:22
I currently work for an orange low cost. Last time I checked the Captain's basic salary was 36140DHS. If I understood well from the above there are are 35 pay points, 1 for each year of service increasing at 3% each one. So 36140DHS increases by 3% every year?

lospilotos
4th Jun 2016, 07:34
I currently work for an orange low cost. Last time I checked the Captain's basic salary was 36140DHS. If I understood well from the above there are are 35 pay points, 1 for each year of service increasing at 3% each one. So 36140DHS increases by 3% every year?

Yes and no... You start at step 1 when you join as a FO, then move one up every year (if they award the step increase that year). When you upgrade to the left seat you move up 10 steps, and then one new step per year. Total steps 35 allowing for a 25 year career.

stable_checked
4th Jun 2016, 07:48
What if I join as DEC?

lospilotos
4th Jun 2016, 07:51
What if I join as DEC?

Then you'd be very unique and special as we got, what, 5 DECs in the latest round?

fatbus
4th Jun 2016, 09:35
Think DECs come in at level 15/16 which represents what most upgrades are moving up to .

TineeTim
5th Jun 2016, 07:12
The leaving/joining numbers above are incorrect. The last guy to join in 2015 started on 13/12 at number 3905 (380 F/O MJ). Today his number is 3837- up 68 numbers in just under 6 months. The total on the list today is 4104- up 199.

The reason the salary review was so disappointing is reflected in those numbers. Not as many are leaving as say they are, and plenty are joining. Whether that trend continues or not will decide what happens with future reviews.

Toledo
5th Jun 2016, 09:15
Fatbus, I don't think that's correct. DECs come in at level 1 - approx 36,000 as stable_checked stated. I am happy to be corrected if wrong.

Are the pay scales published anywhere btw?

donpizmeov
5th Jun 2016, 09:31
Recent DEC I have met was one step 14 on joining.

jack schidt
5th Jun 2016, 09:45
From my recollection, step 1 to 13 is FO and Captain starts on step 14. So, most FOs see a good jump in pay when upgraded from say step 6 to 14 whereas the steps to 13 are for those who "wish to" remain in the RHS.

Skippers now go from step 14 to 35 which means after 15 years as a Captain you are not pay frozen anymore. There are now 5 more years of "financial enticements" to stop the experience leaving (which isn't happening as I met another 2 senior fellows leaving shortly) after notice expires.

Safe flying and enjoy that 8AED / HR pay raise.

J

stable_checked
5th Jun 2016, 09:59
Does that mean step 14 is the 36000 advertised on the emirates career page? I am trying to work out how much will I be earning in year 1 and how much as the years progress

donpizmeov
5th Jun 2016, 10:17
Yep the one on the website is step 14. We have been frozen on the same step three times since 2008. So your calcs should be considered best case.

Toledo
5th Jun 2016, 10:30
Right, I think Ive got it now! So there's one pay scale for all pilots, with capts starting at step 14 (currently approx 36000 as advertised). I was assuming there were separate pay scales for capt & FO with 36000 representing capt step 1. Same same but different!

sluggums
5th Jun 2016, 12:59
It is one scale in effect. It's just that there are 2 tables merely to reflect that FO's stop at spine point 13. FO's who are promoted go up 10 steps or go to step 14, which ever is the greater.

I assume that DEC's come in at step 14? But they should really come in at step 10 IMHO.

stable_checked
5th Jun 2016, 13:07
So a DEC starts at step 14 which is currently approximately 36000 and every year expect a move to the next step at 3% until step 35 which is the top?

stable_checked
5th Jun 2016, 13:10
And something else, step 14 which is currently about 36000, never gets adjusted for inflation? So even if I join in 2 years time, step 14 will still be 36000?

donpizmeov
5th Jun 2016, 13:29
The pilot group has not had a pay rise since...what is it? 2009? I am sure someone will have the correct date.

gardenshed
5th Jun 2016, 13:30
Worse than that.
If they begrudgingly give you your contracted yearly step as a pay rise, inflation in Dubai is higher, so effectively its more of a slow painful pay cut year on year.
Lets not forget VAT ( 5%) is looming in 2018 so 3% this year and 3% next year, means that come 2018, well you do the maths.

kingpost
5th Jun 2016, 14:18
The leaving/joining numbers above are incorrect. The last guy to join in 2015 started on 13/12 at number 3905 (380 F/O MJ). Today his number is 3837- up 68 numbers in just under 6 months. The total on the list today is 4104- up 199.

So up 199 and we've lost 68, that equates to approx for every 3 in, we lose 1 - those are grounds to up the salary big time!!

TineeTim
5th Jun 2016, 14:54
So up 199 and we've lost 68, that equates to approx for every 3 in, we lose 1 - those are grounds to up the salary big time!!

Based on what we saw in the email the other day, I'd have to say it's not.

Percentage wise, it's about 3.5% per year. No doubt that's higher than they'd like but it must not be high enough that they feel the need to do something about it. If we see a big increase in that rate, or if they really are having difficulty attracting enough guys, then maybe they'll look at it again. Not holding my breath!

kingpost
5th Jun 2016, 16:32
Based on what we saw in the email the other day, I'd have to say it's not.

Well those numbers tell you something else - the facts!!

FL3
5th Jun 2016, 18:57
Guys and don't forget about all those ghost pilots that never joined but their names are still in the seniority list with their planned date of joining...

sluggums
6th Jun 2016, 15:32
Really... Ok, give me a ghost staff number...

donpizmeov
6th Jun 2016, 16:56
The only I knew of, now at Turkish, and here recently running a road show, is no longer on the list.

sluggums
6th Jun 2016, 17:13
Yep, he went off the list a while ago. If we're going to state facts, let's try to back them up...?

FL3
6th Jun 2016, 18:30
Really... Ok, give me a ghost staff number...
Sure, I'm not making up this.
Check seniority list number 312#. DOJ 07-JUN-13...

The Zohan
6th Jun 2016, 19:20
There're no joiners on June 7th

FL3
6th Jun 2016, 19:38
There're no joiners on June 7th
Maybe we aren't seeing the same seniority list, or you need help...
Here we go:
It's the first column, and not the last one (last one is Date of Service), and the middle one is Date of Birth.
Hope it helps.

Capn Rex Havoc
6th Jun 2016, 21:47
FL3- I'll be buggered. You are right. First time I've seen this. I wonder how many other Ghost numbers are there.
:ooh:

fatbus
7th Jun 2016, 03:41
The guy you are referring to, when did he leave?

FL3
7th Jun 2016, 04:16
The guy you are referring to, when did he leave?
From what I know, he never joined.

Kamelchaser
7th Jun 2016, 04:24
What are you on about FL3? He was head of pilot recruitment and left fairly recently.

I also heard the head of HR pilot recruitment got the boot recently. Anybody have confirmation about that? It would seem things not happy in that department. No crisis though right?

FL3
7th Jun 2016, 05:51
What are you on about FL3? He was head of pilot recruitment and left fairly recently.

I also heard the head of HR pilot recruitment got the boot recently. Anybody have confirmation about that? It would seem things not happy in that department. No crisis though right?

Not talking about MK.
The guy I am talking about NEVER joined (in person) the company!! Search as others and I did.

donpizmeov
7th Jun 2016, 07:21
I believe AW is leaving. That who you are referring to Kamelchaser?

sluggums
7th Jun 2016, 07:22
One senior HR manager involved in recruitment booted out last week. Initials are correct Don.

Ok FL3, there's one 'ghost' pilot, it's hardly a conspiracy. If there were a couple of dozen then I'd agree with you. Any others...?

donpizmeov
7th Jun 2016, 08:16
Well I will be fecked...Four joiners showing on the 7th Jun, only two in the company. Were the other two recent leavers? Or never show up like AB?