EK Pay review.

[sluggums]

Not going to publish specifics, but it's utter rubbish.

[General Dogsbody]

I shouldn't be But I am Shocked!!

[GoreTex]

I have seen a trend the last 18 years, I don't understand why grown men lie to themselves every year before the bonus and pay rise will be announced.
Just face the truth and realize that EK doesn't give a s**t about you and move on.

[sluggums]

Who's lying? That's irrelevant. They're ignoring market forces. Aeroplanes ARE being parked and we're struggling with recruitment.

[GoreTex]

they rather park planes than pay you more, its their call

[POTATOW]

"The above is a clear demonstration of our commitment to maintain a nurturing, caring and inspiring internal world at Emirates" 😂😂😂

[kennedy]

3% step! WTF!

Deluded!

[Omar_Baba]

shocked....

These guys live on a different planet. "commitment to maintain a nurturing, caring and inspiring internal world at emirates"

Funny how the boys and girls down the road get sweet FA the other day and now miraculously they've decided now to give us FA

[POTATOW]

So it says the flying and productivity pay have both been increased from 1 May, but gives no details as to what the new figure is?!

[aeropix]

Now how many times I need to remind you it's all about the happiness. Money, as we all know does not buy happiness. In fact they are doing us all a favor (keep in mind they are not contractually obligated to do us any favors!) by keeping our pay low we can be taught the good moral values of thrift and perseverance! Also our American colleagues can now rest assured of keeping their tax liabilities low. And when we talk about reducing fatigue isn't that nice that they removed all the stress and heartache of dealing with all those financial messes that money brings into our lives, so we can go to sleep well at night (or through the day as the case may be!)? Now that's good management!!

In the 80's we called it "tough love"

[Calmcavok]

Par for the course, no increase to basic means no increase to the provident fund.

Now, where's this exciting package?

[donpizmeov]

That letter writing wore the poor fella out. He couldn't even remember how many extra crumbs would be added to flying pay and productivity. Guess we can wait for another Thursday arvo to find out.

[maimax]

slap in the face...again

[aeropix]

Love how swap and leave extension restrictions take immediate effect.

But the FEW increases (ground duty credit) will need 3 months to implement.

Confound those newfangled computers are so fussy when we ask them to ADD any pay or so.

Must be IT issues!

[Panther 88]

aeropix,

Excellent. I was a bit peeved, but after reading your post, I'm feeling better. Just didn't have an understanding of the benefit they were providing us.

P88

[Cloud Bunny]

Perfect, 16:45 on a Thursday. Probably hit send as he was driving out the car park as well.
I wonder if we can expect notification on Sunday that due to a double booking in the EAC auditorium this months forum has been cancelled. The Dubai chapter of the women's institute will be holding their annual cake sale and jam competition instead. The fleet forum will be rescheduled for a time when the dust has settled and we've plucked up the courage to face you.

[JAYTO]

Starts off......

Im pleased to share with you........

Of course he is pleased. The pilots have been f&@ked again.

J.

[Sheikh Your Bootie]

Sadly this shows their utter contempt for us. :{

This will really solve the retention and recruitment issues (Not)

i hear the pool of new recruits has dried up.

The step is contractual, so its a pay cut again :mad::mad:

SyB :ugh::ugh:

[Rotating Bacon]

thank god I did my last flight already, you guys should leave too.
no need to tell me the standard excuse "I have kids in school" they have schools in other countries too

[jarops]

Pleased to announce the annual step has been approved.... so, the only positive news, DIVERSION add. Does this mean that the only way to increase your salary is to divert more often. How many diversion anyhow????? Just a words with no effect in overall.... empty words to fill out the message.... soon exiting!

[Panther 88]

I guess I'm just naive. You see he's waiting to see what the reaction will be on the email. If you ungrateful pilots aren't pleased with the generosity of 3%, an extra 25 minutes on the FDP, getting some extra for ground duties, and not bowing and scraping to your masters, then there will be f&*#k all for you. However, if you show true gratification and appreciation, we just may throw a few extra pieces of silver to you.

[kennedy]

I also notice that the new report time is applicable to Dxb only.

Doesn't really help when you arrive at the aircraft 90-100 minutes before departure at most outstations! Maybe we should start recording the time we get to the aircraft downroute and email it in!

[145qrh]

Hahahahahahah!!

[Airbuspilot72]

They are having hard time recruiting pilots. The company who never used to contact a pilot once rejected is now sending emails to pilots checking if they are still interested in joining EK. Many friends in Air Arabia and Etihad received emails from Capt Pilot Selection that if they were still interested.

[Airbuspilot72]

My ex low cost company gave 15% hike.
3% what a shame.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

Cabin crew FDP starts 90 mins before push back ex Dubai.

Pilots now 85 mins. Why the 5 mins discrepancy?

[Talparc]

Acknowledgement of debt:

Looks like the Muppets don't have enough crew for that!
Finally the outside pressure shows some effect, but yes something not adding up here as Capn Rex states.
What about outstations? GCAA seems to hide here something.
Oh sorry GCAA is not independent as in the real world.
If you wana play games with the big international airlines you need to follow rules and learn how to treat your stuff right.
Better the Muppets should have read the stuff from the lawyers instead of drinking coffee at costa, now it will cost them a fortune especially as more **** is rolling downhill soon.
A brand going downhill with laughter.

[donpizmeov]

Luckily the ground allowance doesn't count towards productivity. Compressed rosters to stay.

[Pointer]

Neektu, you are absolutely correct.. its all smoke and mirrors..

First you need to be out of pocket for an hour, then we will pay you 11 min overtime??

Guess I won't be taking extra fuel when they haven't thought about it.. committing to destination? ahh don't think the wx is good enough for that.. Pfff muppets..

Pointer

[The Turtle]

I would gladly attend this washup on the 30th, yet unsurprisingly I'm flying......

If you haven't written your displeasure to JA yet, what are you waiting for?

[CTWO]

sorry guys..everybody talk about contractual pay rise...but are you positive???.... to be honest contract in hand, is not written anywhere! wording is : " based on individual performance , increase within the scale may be awarded.You will be eligible for a salary review on 1st may provided you have completed four months and one day continuos service with the company"
This is it...:eek::eek::eek::eek:
WTF:ooh:!!!!

[sluggums]

Agreed, letter on its way.

[Praise Jebus]

CTWO that is not written on my joining paper work but a "change" since then. The point of the scale steps was in recognition of the lack of promotional opportunities available to pilots within the company. To get a pay rise through promotion you can become a Captain then an instructor....essentially that's it. Ask your self why there is even a scale?? Why have a scale that equates to years served as a Captain or FO if that was not the original intent?? If a step increase is purely based on performance yada yada then there would be no need for a scale at all. A sallary review used to be a question of whether the steps them selves were increased or not.

[what_goes_up]

As long as we still have "colleagues" who agree to fly on days off just for a few extra bucks, management won't see any need to increase lifestyle and/or salary...:sad:

[CTWO]

Praise Jebus, thanks. The fact is that we do not get to see the Pay and Allowances manual which according to the Employment Regulation manual para A6, is only distributed to grade EK 9 and above. There is a scale, and according to our contract (that you can download from you HR direct page) we may be awarded a pay increase within the scale.This is what is legally on the docs... WE do not even get to see the scale but my understanding, talking to colleagues, is that we get 30 steps max on the same scale FO and CPT. When you upgrade to CPT you go up 10 step from your former step as FO: let's say you get upgraded after 6 yrs, you go to step 16( and get same salary of a 16yrs senior FO); A DEC 2 yr senior gets as a 12yrs senior FO...everybody gets maximum to step 30 (till yesterday at least) ...this is reality...I am disappointed and pissed off...but the reality is that we cannot complain..and I am puzzled reading here people talking about a contractual 3% salary increase which quite frankly does not exists (unless you prove me wrong...)...they screw us up because we are a peculiar category of people: sometime very keen...but some other a little bit too naive..

[motojet]

I agree that the 3% step increase is not a given. I seem to recall around 2009 or so we did not get a step increase due to financial conditions. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

[lospilotos]

There is a scale, and according to our contract (that you can download from you HR direct page)

Where exactly on HR Direct is that?

[CTWO]

lospilotos HR direct / profile/personal images/employement contact

[CTWO]

contract page

[speedbirdhopeful1]

contract page

If I were you I'd remove the reference at the bottom of the page as it might just identify you if they wanted to check!

[CTWO]

done...thks

[fliion]

Moto

Correct, but the following year 6%.

This years pay review is not going to create an exodus - but it won't stop the guys who are thinking of leaving from doing so - which one would have thought was the point : /

Of interest is that we are now starting to get feedback from colleagues who have left for various other shops - and that positive reinforcement of greener pastures (mostly) will perpetuate the attrition.

[Alloy]

Fliion's point of actual positive experiences outside of EK starting to filter back and it's long term effects on attrition is a very relevant point.

[troff]

"i hear the pool of new recruits has dried up."
From a recruitment guy yesterday: "we are dragging the bottom of the Pacific for new pilots".
That's a confidence builder. Feel better putting my -ex on board now.

[sluggums]

So where's the new productivity rates?

[lospilotos]

So where's the new productivity rates?

Guess that's gonna be the first question asked at the Fleet Forum tomorrow...

[sluggums]

It should be the second really.... The first being justifying the appalling 3%

[donpizmeov]

Think we have to wait for another Thursday arvo before they state the numbers.

[sluggums]

15:59:59 approx.

[Airbuspilot72]

What a shame, Sunday has come to an end and no one has the balls to give numbers. What an ambiguous email of pay review it was....

What about the layover allowances.

No one even talks about increasing them. On these allowances one could just buy Pizza, salads, Pasta. No proper healthy meals.

That's why on layovers I have seen the first thing we pilots do when we reach the aircraft is to grab the delicious expensive organic healthy sandwiches served to us. Isn't a safety issue that the crew is not well fed. Because the allowance were so meager that all they could afford was some cheap unhealthy pizza slice around the corner of the hotel or gulp some bananas

What a shame ..... I am living the dream of flying Emirates......ha ha ha ......few more weeks to go and I am out of here.

[fatbus]

Why would anyone elect to go to that meeting now ? Nothing will change. If you want to make a statement , those how signed up to go should not!

I was never going in the first place.

[Enos]

Hi Guys

Could be wrong, its happened before.

Fleet forum put back months ago because of new package to be announced, believe the forum is on today.

If anybody has been would they be kind enough to enlighten us to what was said.

Enos

[RemoveB4Flght]

Well... at least you guys fared better than we did down in the capital.. a big fat zero across the board!

[donpizmeov]

Enos,

It's important to not listen to what they say, but rather watch what they do. Two entirely different things.

[Mr Good Cat]

Well... at least you guys fared better than we did down in the capital.. a big fat zero across the board!

Out of interest, how many hours are you guys in Clandestine Airways doing these days?

Not spoke to anyone from that way for a while.

[Enos]

Point taken Don

[aslan1982]

55 flying pay per hour FO

75 for capt

rest to follow tomorrow with email

[TangoUniform]

55 flying pay per hour FO

75 for capt

rest to follow tomorrow with email
Whew! Thank goodness, an 8 AED per fly hour increase. Now I'm feeling the love, at last. But I'll take it. Problem is, our supporting staff has had zero in how many years? A very very sorry state of affairs for all, except those residing in the rarified air in the B. castle.

[Mach_Krit]

where does this information come from?

[kipper the dog]

It comes from the powerpoint presentation at the forum today.

[Mango]

Was there a PowerPoint with references to the amazing package we are getting? Or am I in the wrong forum...

[lospilotos]

where does this information come from?

Today's fleet forum...

[sluggums]

8dhs... Wow, that'll really open up the recruitment floodgates.

[tomuchwork]

Sounds like it was a very wise decission to cancel that EK interview last month. Well, maybe in a few years when they are desperate enough....

Sandpit and not really good pay PLUS a lot of flying (especially night and long haul) sounds not very tempting. Good luck guys, you will need it.

[Rotating Bacon]

tomuchwork,
wise decision, I left today after 18 years, left hand 380, the 777 rosters are even worse.
people who join now must be mad or very desperate, you will see their posts here when the honeymoon period is over

[ExDubai]

@Rotating Bacon Congrats and enjoy your new life.

[PositiveRate876]

55 flying pay per hour FO

75 for capt

rest to follow tomorrow with email


If this is true and it's only 8AED, then it's really sad.


flyDubai skippers got 12AED, and they are in far worse financial shape.

[spanishfly69]

PositiveRate876,

It is almost imposible to defend EK. I definitely believe that EK pilots deserve a better package. But your comparison of what FD got and what EK is non-sense. Flydubai skippers got 12 AED extra per flt hr. EK skippers only got 8 AED extra per flt hr, plus 3% increment on the Basic Salary which is 40% higher than a senior FD skipper Basic Salary. And I will stop there because I do not want to justify EK. But when a pilot makes a bad statement, he makes all the pilots look bad too.

[Saltaire]

Another day - another false promise. Was there not supposed to be an email sent today with pay package details? The lack of respect is appalling.

[my salami]

Another day - another false promise. Was there not supposed to be an email sent today with pay package details? The lack of respect is appalling.

Promised on PPrune😎😎??

[fatbus]

What did guys expect? Writing was on the wall. Never going to improve.

[Saltaire]

My understanding was that JA said from the meeting it was going to be emailed out today. Gong. True fatbus.

[fatbus]

Airbet, how long you been at EK?

Not long enough to know education/ housing allowance is not tied into pilot pay review and comes out later. Check your facts first, it helps you look like a real pilot.

[sanddune 1]

Ok,...so, just for our knowledge - uhmm,... did anyone who attend this forum ask - during the "question & answer" portion of the meeting, why our pay review was so dismal? Or why we are only getting an 8dhs increase to our flying pay?

That's what I would have asked if I was there?

We're any questions asked?

I'm not knocking those who were there, I'm just asking if the management were asked to explain or justify why - in this present "pilot short" climate, they thought it prudent to only give out the contractual step, and a piss poor increase to flying pay?

Thanks

[lospilotos]

Airbet, how long you been at EK?

Not long enough to know education/ housing allowance is not tied into pilot pay review and comes out later. Check your facts first, it helps you look like a real pilot.

You might want to check the 2014 pay review...

[lospilotos]

Ok,...so, just for our knowledge - uhmm,... did anyone who attend this forum ask - during the "question & answer" portion of the meeting, why our pay review was so dismal? Or why we are only getting an 8dhs increase to our flying pay

A not too bold guess is that they feel they have enough potential recruits lined up...

[Emma Royds]

So apart from the amazing, morale boosting, excessively magnificent, huge increase in flight pay ..............NOT..................was there anything else at the forum that is worthy of publication?

777 Duvets.

Still trying to figure out the significance of this one myself.

[kipper the dog]

There was also something about part time working being a "work in progress". Yeah right, like thats going to happen! I thought the flight pay increase was an extra 15dhs an hour, not 8? Could have sworn Captains were on 60 an hour...

[thatwasclose]

please email your fleet asking when to expect the email with changes and to register your disappointment at the delay. politely

[donpizmeov]

Doesn't bad news happen on a Thursday after 3.30?

[PositiveRate876]

please email your fleet asking when to expect the email with changes and to register your disappointment at the delay. politely\


I've been registering disappointment for a long time know.
Then only thing that has changed is the thickness of the folder where my disappointment is kept.

[Gulf News]

please email your fleet asking when to expect the email with changes and to register your disappointment at the delay. politely

May I suggest that you do, as I have, copy in on your email the SVP HR & Remuneration who TCH conned into sending out the letter informing us of the delay. I generally ignore the disdain and disrespect that we get from above at EK but an unexplained delay in informing your employees what they are currently working for is inexcusable and arrogant in the extreme.

[Rotating Bacon]

or just leave, I know the standard excuse is "I have my kids in school" but seriously they have schools in other countries too

[ruserious]

Then only thing that has changed is the thickness of the folder where my disappointment is kept.
Beautifully put, personally I have learned to lower my expectations to the floor and learned to be happy within that framework

[fatbus]

Continual decline since 2007/8 ? When productivity went to 92hrs. Never going to gain that back. Inflation kills the step increase.

[Talparc]

The Muppets throwing peanuts at us but remember the 20 min addition to the check in time costs them a fortune thats why the cost index has been increased again to make up some time.
They cannot afford to give more under the circumstances that more lawyers are now after them.
More authorities chasing them and more expensive stuff around the corner.
Keep discovering or hello tomorrow!
Soon a new slogan will be:Muppets reloaded!

[glofish]

Please stop insulting the Muppet Show by comparing it to this primitive outfit .....
The Show was creative, intelligent and funny, everything EK is not.

[Eau de Boeing]

Surely McDonalds is a more appropriate comparison?

At least we can say we are all working for one clown!

[trimotor]

Hereinafter, the Bouncy Castle shall be known as Ronald McDonald House...though the Golden Arches leaves a better taste in your mouth.

[glofish]

To me it will always be the Animal House with the ugly pig Napoleon trying desperately and ridicolously to walk on two legs when he previously declared "four legs good, two legs bad".

Now just who would "Spring" to my mind????

[Eau de Boeing]

It's out...........

[Jetkopite]

WOOOOW we waited all week for that???? .. WOOOPI DOOOOOO !!! Thats gonna stop the exodus and attract quality experienced pilots....NOT!!!!!

[General Dogsbody]

How could they take a week to produce that E-Mail:\:\

[kcar]

*kcar would like to recall his last message*

[Don Corleone]

You make a small calculation error. When you upgrade you jump 10 steps so basically everyone joined before 1997 are getting 5 additional steps.

[The.Humble.Guy]

So the last paragraph in the email is signed off saying "The coming year will continue to be challenging..." - I assumed the author meant the usual spin.

A few minutes later, I see this story on BBC: Airline industry profits 'to jump 12% in 2016' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36432818)

[sluggums]

SSDD from the clowns in the bouncy castle...

[alwayzinit]

The next year is most definitely going to be a challenge if the "straw poll" in arrivals this evening is anything to go by.

Out of the 3 crews 5 of the 6 pilots were now on their way, the only one not is currently an upgrade interviewer. All 3 FOs were either about to or already have jobs lined up. The 2 Capts one waiting for China, one about to just pack it in.

So AAR, Henry, well done you must be very proud to have achieved such a resounding result.:ugh:

[ruserious]

Pretty sure Henry has nothing to do with it, do you honestly think he gets to make the decisions on this

[polax52]

Please could somebody kindly remind me of the Financial advisors which you guys use at Emirates. I am in another part of the middle East but I think the company which you use for your provident fund is probably the best option.
Thanks.....

[Dropp the Pilot]

That may be the funniest thing I've read here for a long time.

Could you walk us through the thought process which produced Emirates fund managers as the model of probity, seeing as a career Emirates pilot will be robbed of almost $200,000 in fees during his time here?

By "robbed" I mean "robbed".

[polax52]

Well having given me the bollocking:ooh:, you could have given me the name and the contact details.

[alwayzinit]

Well Rusicous Henry is our most senior pilot manager, so yes he should have input and has the ultimate sanction of resigning if the steps that are needed to stop the rot are not taken.
AAR said in his face to face that he was not being given the facts. Passing on the facts is very much in Henry's purview. If he isn't then he is directly responsible, if he is and being ignored then he should threaten resignation as his job of keeping this leaking boat afloat becomes increasingly difficult.

As a fella Henry is a super nice bloke, imho. However, his much vaunted "improvement in T+Cs" has been b@llocks frankly.

[Uplink]

It's quite simple really. Does it really matter who is responsible for Payrises and bonuses (Profit share to be technically correct) HD I'm sure did what he could or maybe he didn't. The T+Cs came from on high. I heard last year they went in with double figures...and it was rejected from above. It's what it is and we got what we didn't....

So you can do one of three things..

You can leave....many are.

You can stay...many will

The third group are the ones that can't leave because of financial commitments, schooling etc. They have to sweat it out until they can leave.

People talk of the pool drying up...I don't see it myself.. The seniority list just keeps growing. The programme is still running and we are still working.

Until the next year when we will also be again hugely disappointed with what we may or may not get. Nothing will change. The crumbs they have thrown us sums their attitude to us up.

So just stop bitching on here and either go (my choice), stay or sweat it out...

[fatbus]

My choice to leave was made before the profit share and pay review, Knew it would be disappointing.

[Heritage 1]

Where are you going Fatbus?

[fatbus]

The beach!

For now nothing , done! Money bucket full.

[fliion]

Oh the irony...

😏👍

[Rotating Bacon]

same here fatbus, left a week ago and I am enjoying the beach, no desire to work, have to get EK out of my system first

[Payscale]

Then you money bucket must be smaller than you BS bucket!!usually one leaves then one fills up:-)

[Airbuspilot72]

A woman in hot air balloon realized she is lost...

She reduced altitude & shouted to a man below: Excuse me, can you help me? I promised a friend to meet him an hour ago but I don't know where I am.

Man below replied: You are in hot air balloon 30 feet above the ground. You are at 41 degree North latitude & 59 degree West longitude.

Lady: You must be a Pilot

Man: How do you know?

Lady: Everything you told me is technically correct but useless & the fact is I'm still lost.

Pilot: You must be in Top Management.

Lady: Ya. How do you know?

Pilot: You don't know where you are or where you're going. You made a promise, which you've no idea how to keep & you expect people beneath you to solve your problems..!!
��������������

[donpizmeov]

I see the contract adjust letters have not been updated yet.

[donpizmeov]

Has the new duty time started yet? Haven't seen anything apart from AARs letter referring to it. In that letter he states the new duty period will now be based on blah blah blah.

[fliion]

And while we're at it;

Zero feedback from Mgt on the Forum last week - a la previous meetings & the new era of open comms.

Dear me it didn't take long

🤔

[ClassCbird]

Good news for salaries in the UAE (http://www.msn.com/en-ae/news/other/good-news-for-salaries-in-the-uae/ar-AAh1q4o?li=BBqrVLO&ocid=mailsignout)

:rolleyes:

[gardenshed]

All it proves is that our "increases" have been below even inflation.

[The Outlaw]

Yet another arse kissing article that is full of s h i t targeted toward the totally misinformed.

From airline to oil/gas to hospitality to retail to ...(name it) nobody is getting acceptable salary increases as the money is just not there anymore.

Just think about the reasons to introduce VAT.

Of course its true....it was published in Pravda...errr I mean 7 days.

Just like all the true articles in the "national enquirer" or Jerry Springer!!!

[natops]

Pravda 😂😂😂

[nosmo king]

More like Prada!

[Talparc]

Better read WSJ

[The.Humble.Guy]

If anyone knows the name of the HR lady who spoke at the most recent fleet forum, could you kindly PM? I believe there was a discussion about the accommodation policy. Thank you in advance.