Sam shoots down Super Cobra

[westernhero]

Dunno if this has been mentioned before ? No idea when it was filmed but it does look real

Attack helicopter is shot out of the sky by militant's surface-to-air missile | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3591396/Caught-video-Shocking-moment-attack-helicopter-shot-sky-militant-carrying-surface-air-missile.html)

Any ideas on type of Sam ?

[garyscott]

9K38 Igla.

[Brian W May]

Ouch . . .

[cokecan]

i was surprised that the Turkish AH-1W was flying so low/slow and that it was on its own, and really surprised that the aircraft didn't appear to use any DAS/DIRCM - any of the Weapons Int specialists know if this mark of SA-18 is particularly devious/effective, or if the Turkish AH-1's just don't operate the DAS that we would regard as normal?

[El_Presidente]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K38_Igla#Turkey

SA-24 Grinch 9K338 Igla-s portable air defense missile system technical data sheet specifications UK | Russia Russian army light heavy weapons UK | Russia Russian army military equipment vehicles UK (http://www.armyrecognition.com/russia_russian_army_light_heavy_weapons_uk/sa-24_grinch_9k338_igla-s_portable_air_defense_missile_system_technical_data_sheet_s pecifications_uk.html)

And, not wishing to cause upset to others who knew the crew and pax (as I did), but I would consider we have seen the effectiveness of this manpad before.

http://fas.org/asmp/campaigns/MANPADS/2007/boi_lynx_xz614_main_report.pdf

[TBM-Legend]

RIP chaps...

[PapaDolmio]

One of my biggest fears was of even a small quantity getting into Afg. Only half a dozen would have been a game changer.

[tartare]

Do chopper crews get any sort of lock on tone in their headsets when something like that is heading for them?
Or would they have not known a thing?

[Evalu8ter]

Tartare - Most MWS I've used/evaluated had an audio tone to cue the crew to deploy manual countermeasures. Given the short time of flight, most MWS can be connected directly to the CMDS for an auto dispense. However no MWS is 100% effective, and in this case it either didn't declare (in auto), declared too late (in manual), was turned off (or the volume turned down), was unserviceable or simply not fitted (DAS is expensive - lots of aircraft are 'fitted for, not with' to save money). A lot depends on the J2 picture and RoE/TTPs - the crew may have been relying on the ALQ-144 that Wiki says the Turkish AH-1s are fitted with to avoid dispensing flares.

[Wageslave]

As this thing is passive IR homing surely there can be no warning - or am I completely out of touch?

[Evalu8ter]

Wageslave,
Afraid so old chap. Missile Warning Systems use the energy emitted from the Mx to "declare" the threat. Google AN/AAR-47 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/AAR-47_Missile_Approach_Warning_System) (which is supposedly the Turkish AH-1 system), AN/AAR-54 (http://www.northropgrumman.com/Capabilities/ANAAR54/Pages/default.aspx) and AN/AAR-57 et al. As with most technology (e.g. NVGs..) they are only "discovered" when fitted to FJ; RW and AT (who spend far more time in the MANPADS envelope, in the case of the former 100%...) have had passive MWS technology for decades. You can also use radar, such as the AN/ALQ-156 (http://sei.ckcest.cn/product_img/360001/8183/419252/Document/bae_pdf_eis_156.pdf), which detects incoming objects.

[Lala Steady]

But only the actual launch of the missile is detected, not that someone has aquired you with it and is about to press the trigger. At low level that launch detection to impact time isn't going to give a lot of warning.

[dynamics]

I count 5 seconds from launch to impact - not much time to react. The shooter appears to wait for the chopper to bank away before firing, reducing visual clues for the crew whilst maximizing the target's IR signature. Presumably well trained...or just lucky.

RIP indeed.

[Evalu8ter]

LS - Indeed. One of the problems with IR Jammers and IR Suppression Systems is that it's hard to convince beancounters of their worth as you never know how many shots they've prevented. The Time to Impact is a critical feature of MWS design and, believe me, in Auto they can react in plenty of time to either deploy Flares or to point a DIRCM.

Dynamics,
Maybe well trained, or possibly the Mx only achieved a good lock when the aircraft turned away. It does look like a SA-18, but even a fairly swept up system like that will sometimes have issues with clutter in the seeker head FoR.

[Just This Once...]

The guy did look well trained as the SA-18 is a little more tricky than others. His drills were good, particularly with battery management and he had a very good stance. It is very easy to end up eating the grass in front of you when the launcher leaps forward after firing.

Reasonably small FoV on an SA18/24 so no problem with clutter in that engagement.

Seeing any aircraft go down makes me shudder.

[Evalu8ter]

JTO,
Valid points. Having looked at it again I agree; well trained and waited for a good PK before pulling the trigger. Looks like it wasn't his first go either.....