Merlin makes a splash at Wyvern Tor [Archive]

Could be the last?

7th May 2016, 12:15

That is pretty poor operating by both front and rear crew - I assume that the Royal Navy conduct a 5-S recce, especially considering what they were carrying? I think the lady 'tittering' in the commentary sums it up!

Mind you, I suppose it is no different to losing your cabin door, or stuffing the nose wheel in and tootling off into the sunset................

NutLoose

7th May 2016, 13:26

At least at that height, the sh*t shouldn't hit the fan. :E

I remember doing a bridge lifting demo for the pongoes with our then new Chinook, as I was a keen photographer I was asked to video the event, never having used one before I set up and awaited its arrival in front of the stands,.
Despite pumping water on the sandy soil for days it didn't help and a veritable sand storm erupted with me inside it, the language I used was pretty fruity and I called the captain C...... T......... all the names under the sun, it was only when we got back and they played the tape to see my results that I realised it had sound!

Hot 'n' High

7th May 2016, 14:43

And reminds me of the day a Sea King, due to have some Mods rapidly fitted prior to a rather urgent trip "Down South" with the Task Force in 1982, was not shut down on the airfield at Lee-on-Solent prior to a tow to the hangar, but was authorised by ATC to hover-taxi from the active runway to the hangar hardstanding to speed up the process. This evolution entailed the SK threading itself through a narrow gap between two large blocks of cars parked on the airfield due to emergency car parking restrictions being in force on the base at the time. The brightly painted 55 gal drums used to denote the limits of said car park areas took this breezy opportunity to depart in various directions, at various altitudes and at various velocities. Once the inevitable carnage was complete, being the newest junior Erk on the Section, I was swiftly volunteered by everyone else to deliver the Fleet Chief's (now WO1's) front number plate to him! His intense annoyance at being interrupted by a mere minion was swiftly replaced by utter anguish when I explained that the number plate I had in my hand had been removed from the front of his car by a flying 55 gal oil drum working on the principle of an airborne scythe! Yes, it is true, WO's do cry!!!!!!!

Wageslave

7th May 2016, 15:59

Participated in a similar event at the RAF Buchan families day in 1986 when, en-route back to ABZ from some rig or other we were asked by Aberdeen Approach if we could do a flyby for them at the CO's request. My Capt had displayed the Chinook before and agreed readily.
I had to call knock it off as we came to a quickstop v. high hover and the dunnies went over and away all in a row, followed by the ice-cream van's awning, hats, clothing, rugs and entire picnics followed in a blizzard of dust and debris. I swear I saw daylight under Mr Whippy's tyres...
The ensuing call from the CO as we were slinking out of the Ops room half an hour later was, astonishingly, not a furious b@llocking but effusive praise and thanks. We had to wonder if he had actually attended the event!

John Eacott

7th May 2016, 20:39

In the early days of the Sea King the prevailing SOP was a hover taxi at Culdrose to the runway, usually past the sloping ground alongside the bomb dump.

The first anyone knew of the Hiller 12E being rolled up into component parts down the slope by a passing Sea King was some time later when the very upset Midshipman student wandered across the field. Ground taxiing became the new requirement from then on.

Similarly the arrival of the first Aircrane on Helitack duties outside my hangar at Essendon neatly tipped a parked Cessna onto its wing; it was such a regular occurrence that the crew almost had a pro forma for dealing with the irate owner.

So I wouldn't be pointing too many fingers at the Merlin crew; it goes with the territory.

NutLoose

7th May 2016, 21:08

The Cessna reminds me, when I became a civilian we had a French person on route to Paris who due to weather (fog) was diverted to Le Touquet...
Anyway by the time the fog subsided the said Frenchman found himself lost, over Kent and out of fuel, a perfect landing was carried out in a plowed field that was to small to fly out of, so a plan was hatched to airlift the undamaged aircraft to another field and the USAF offered a CH-53 to do the lift... The resulting damage due to downdraught to the now flipped aircraft was a broken back, crushed fin and wing and engine damage courtesy of the USAF :}
We stripped it, bought a complete rear fuselage chopped off another aircraft in the States and grafted it on, the engine was overhauled and various repairs carried out before the Frenchman was able to continue his journey several months later :E

Krystal n chips

8th May 2016, 05:54

Early 80's after the Open golf at Birkdale.....an AF Concorde arrives at MAN to collect golfs elite and thus home to America.

Said Concorde is parked at the end of pier B and those travelling.... and the usual hangers on.... were permitted to stroll down the ramp as it were rather than inside the pier.

Thus, many expensive hair styles ( male and female ) along with equally expensive clothing on display.

Alas, nobody it seemed had thought to tell the well wishers who assembled at the end of the pier of the fact that 4 x Olympus generate a fair amount of efflux when taxiing away from the pier.

The returning throng, in addition to being sandblasted by the dust, gave a credible impression of the term "dragged though a hedge backwards ".

Sandy Parts

9th May 2016, 13:15

had the protaloos been used? If not - seems a straightforward 'blue on looblue' event. Much less worrying than a 'brown on blue' event. I'll get my coat...

charliegolf

9th May 2016, 14:51

USAF offered a CH-53 to do the lift... The resulting damage due to downdraught to the now flipped aircraft was a broken back, crushed fin and wing and engine damage courtesy of the USAF

I witnessed a similar flip job at a small air day on a german civvy field in the 80s. 53 arrives, several small planes depart to land upside down! Pilot's remark: "It's a class C incident- USAF will just pay up."

George Blackie (Mr Tactful) to pilot: "Don't they teach you f@@@@@s that downwash goes downwind then?"

CG

Bevo

9th May 2016, 22:04

And here is a B-1 giving a few "spotters" a sample of reheat.

dhf6LyMCYeI

Wander00

10th May 2016, 08:39

That would sort the off airfield free-loaders at airshows!

bobward

10th May 2016, 12:12

How many remember a dim and distant day when British Airways Helicopters got their first Chinook for offshore work? On the way to Aberdeen it dropped into the BAH base at Beccles for all to admire. On departure, the Captain did a low run past the office and departure lounge to impress all and sundry.

As you'll know, the Wokka delivers a huge down draft. No body noticed this until it passed the end of the block. Here was a kennel containing Rover the security and drug dog. The wind picked up both the kennel and dog, and blew them across the car park, bouncing off various vehicles left by the bears going offshore. The kennel was trashed, the dog had a very bad trip and several cars got scratched and dented.

The best part for me was sitting in the office when my boss had to call up a gentleman offshore to report the damage to his car. The call went something like: ' Mr Smith, your car just got trashed by a low flying dog kennel.....'

Cue gales of laughter from the staff, and a shocked silence from offshore measured in micro-seconds before a roar came back. He was sore displeased, and thought we were all taking the p*** - it didn't help that this sad event just happened to occur on 1st April....

Hangarshuffle

10th May 2016, 22:01

Funny until someone is hurt... actually no, its not funny before then. People shouldn't be making errors like this - why are they now?

Tourist

11th May 2016, 08:15

HS

Because pilots, even naval pilots, are human and humans have always made and will always make errors.

Doctors kill more people than Saddam Hussein every year by making mistakes. It's part of the job.

Every now and then helicopters blow toilets over.

Why don't you jump on a different outrage bus?

p.s. It is funny. Anything to do with poo, toilets and disaster is funny to anybody british.

Lala Steady

11th May 2016, 08:39

Or because some RN and Ex-RN pilots (which I assume you are) don't think downwash is their responsibility or that such incidents can be avoided by using that old-fashioned skill of airmanship.

pasta

11th May 2016, 10:14

It is funny. Anything to do with poo, toilets and disaster is funny to anybody british.
Moreover, anything involving portaloos being tipped over when there may be someone inside is doubly funny - so long as they're not seriously injured, elderly, or very senior. Even the latter case has the potential to be amusing if you're not too closely involved.

Tourist

11th May 2016, 10:18

Of course it is their responsibility.

That is true of everybody who has ever or will ever land with the gear up.
Everybody who transmits on the wrong frequency.
Everybody who lands at the wrong airfield, wrong runway or wrong ship.

It has all happened many times and it will happen many times more.

Thankfully, sometimes all that results is a funny video involving toilets.
Sometimes people get injured or die.

Even the best pilots with the best airmanship have a bad day, and unless you have never ever made a mistake with potentially disastrous consequences, then you should really get off your high horse on Pprune about it.

Personally I have never blown over a toilet, but I have had a few moments in my career where I have dodged a bullet more by luck than judgement.

Can you say this has not been the case with your flying?

Wokkafans

11th May 2016, 11:11

Regardless of the loo incident, as a parent with our eldest son taking part that weekend I'd like to thank all the service personnel involved in organising and running the event.

It's real character building stuff for the young ones and all the effort put in is much appreciated by the competitors and parents :ok::D:D

Lala Steady

11th May 2016, 12:43

Tourist

11th May 2016, 12:47

Yes, pilots make mistakes - under pressure, in poor weather, dealing with an emergency, in an operational environment or a highly congested area - but a simple task in the middle of Dartmoor on a nice day? It is just poor airmanship and frankly inexcusable (although I'm sure you'll try).

If you take a little while to actually investigate, I suspect you will find the opposite is in fact more often the case.
Low arousal causes a lot of errors, not high arousal.

Have you never made a mistake?
Ever?

Tourist

11th May 2016, 12:51

Something I have noticed throughout my career is that the sanctimonious types who get excited about the misdemeanours and mistakes of others always seem to think it is different when they break a rule of f@ck up.
Somehow then it is "different"

What I do know is that those who come on here having watched a video and think they know the whole story and feel free to throw opinions about airmanship around are living in glass houses.

TheWestCoast

11th May 2016, 13:17

Wokkafans - agreed. Ten Tors is an amazing experience for anyone who takes part and everyone involved in the preparation and management of the event should be thanked for helping transform lives.

[email protected]

11th May 2016, 18:17

lala - methinks the lady doth protest too much:)

Double Hydco

11th May 2016, 19:23

Many moons ago, the cargo outfit I worked for sent an IL76 into Roberts, Liberia with a couple of UN helicopters.

I believe the runway had been damaged by mortar fire, but against the odds our chaps landed safely and delivered their precious cargo.

However, in their haste to leave Liberia for somewhere less lively, they blew the helicopters over as they taxied away. Doh....

Sh!t happens.....

ZeBedie

11th May 2016, 20:26

If one of those loos had been occupied, the result would have been what - death, paralysis? It may be funny to see a ****ter spinning through the air but a professional airman would probably choose to avoid it.

Lala Steady

12th May 2016, 06:19

Nice idea high spirits - and if this had been the first error to do with downwash we could do just that.

However this is a regular occurrence and is almost always avoidable by the use of airmanship and awareness - maybe they don't teach that in the modern RN.

Tourist are you really suggesting it is acceptable to be in a 'low arousal' state when you are flying a multi million pound helicopter on an approach to the hover???

Low arousal might be an excuse after several hours in the cruise or dip but not after a short hop to Dartmoor.....its just very poor.

Did the event get DASORd and what did RN flyng standards do about it if so?

melmothtw

12th May 2016, 06:43

So this is what is meant by 'brownout'??

p.s. It is funny. Anything to do with poo, toilets and disaster is funny to anybody british. Too true, too true! Not just funny to the British - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyu5-hkWNIE

matelo99

18th May 2016, 08:36

Ok Lala I'll bite.

How about the other circumstances going on here such as:
1. The crews and MAOT informed the organisers that they need to move the loos when the site was recce'd the week prior to the gun move. The toilets were moved approximately 6 feet so that they backed onto the low wall to brace them.
2. The aircraft is heavy as it is carrying a heavy gun, it is also in the downwash of the lead aircraft, running out of power.
3. The lead aircraft has landed short leading to surprise in the second aircraft which is trying to overshoot well before it gets near the toilets.

There are many holes in this cheese and they all lined up perfectly on this instance. Whilst they may hold some of he blame poor airmanship can't be nailed solely at their door. The low wall made it look a lot more impressive than the event really should have been.

Whilst we are here though what about the 24 ill children that got airlifted off the moor by the 2 aircraft and the rescue teams over the weekend? I see you didn't want to talk about that. Get off the bus

M99

Lala Steady

18th May 2016, 12:01

Whilst we are here though what about the 24 ill children that got airlifted off the moor by the 2 aircraft and the rescue teams over the weekend? I see you didn't want to talk about that. Get off the bus
That's what they were there for and the weather was nice all weekend -do you want them written up for medals or something??

Back to airmanship - 2. The aircraft is heavy as it is carrying a heavy gun, it is also in the downwash of the lead aircraft, running out of power. so, too close to the lead and too low - poor airmanship again - formation flying isn't rocket science!
3. The lead aircraft has landed short leading to surprise in the second aircraft which is trying to overshoot well before it gets near the toilets. so the second aircraft was too close and the lead porked his arrival - who are you going to blame for that? The contractors??

This wasn't holes in swiss cheese, this was a poor example of flying skills - what on earth woiuld they have been like in an operational environment, in the dark or poor weather?

Good airmanship is the ability to predict problems and avoid them rather than arriving in a sh*tty mess. A pairs arrival with USL should be absolute bread and butter to junglies.

Tourist

18th May 2016, 15:15

It is still funny:E

Unlike Lala who is perfect in all things and never makes mistakes.....:rolleyes:

airborne_artist

18th May 2016, 15:45

Best we never go flying. Lala is watching :=

Lala Steady

18th May 2016, 16:01

No, the MAA is watching, on behalf of the British taxpayers who expect their Armed Forces to live up to slogans like 'Be the Best' - at the moment, 'Fly Navy' looks like short hand for gashness.

Tourist

18th May 2016, 16:08

Ahhh.

I think it is becoming clear....

Was there a girl who, despite your perfection, preferred the pilot in the Dark Blue uniform Lala?

Even though you are perfect?

Lala Steady

18th May 2016, 18:38

Jumping to conclusions Tourist - I have been that pilot in Dark Blue which is why I am so disappointed by their performance and your attitude!

Timelord

18th May 2016, 22:31

It's probably a dastardly plot by the RAF involving a map which moves the portaloos by 200 miles.

[email protected]

19th May 2016, 07:10

Surely you are not suggesting the Navy blames the RAF when anything goes wrong???;)

wokky

20th May 2016, 09:36

Having read all that has been written, i'd like to add my piece. Yes it was a mistake, but the video doesn't do it justice. The ground slopes away beyond the walls swiftly, so the aircaft was approx 100' AGL at the time. The wind was coming from red 040 at 15 kts. The aircraft was heavy and less responsive to control and by the time the loos were seen to be in danger from the considerable downwash heading swiftly toward them it was all too late to do anything about. Call it poor airmanship, an oversight, a mistake, whatever you wish. I made that mistake and i'm truely relieved the toilets were unoccupied!

Lala Steady

22nd May 2016, 15:46

Wokky - if it really was you - BZ for putting your hand up to it. A far better and more professional attitude than displayed by some on this thread looking to make excuses and then attacking other posters.

I am guessing it's not a mistake you will make again:ok: Fly safe fella