Instrument Ratings at Professional Air Training?

[andrea woodhead]

I thinking of doing my Instrument Rating at Bournemouth at the end of April this year and have heard rumours that there are too many students and not enough instructors. Does anyone have experience of this, or know of anyone - as I've heard good and bad reports?

[Polar_stereographic]

Did mine there recently. They where busy, but it was not a problem to me.

I suggest you talk to the boss and address any concerns you have. My experience is that they are very honest, so if they cannot accomodate you, they will say so.

Speak to Anthony.

Enjoy

PS

[rebeccadblake]

PAT are quite expensive, they bumped there prices up as soon as SFT went bust becuase they knew that they would get a lotta business outta them and a lot of SFT'ers fell for it.

I would go to BFC they have always been cheaper, and always will be.. plus the guy thats most likely to teach you is far(10th most qualfied pilot in UK) more qualifed than Antony and the otheres.

Hope this advise helps..

Beckxy

(no I dont work for BFC!)

[boxjockey99]

I went to PAT and found their training to be excelent particularly on the IR course. They aren't cheap granted but the a/c are very well equipped and the instructors have all got masses of experience of both military and civi experience. I had a few problems with a/c availabilty when on my CPL course due to the expected 2nd Sierra not coming on stream and so not enough planes for too many students. As Polar_stereo says they will tell you very honestly if they have space or not and I know they are very full at present cos everyone wants to get through before the CAA system closes!!

just get there before their current sim instructor ******s off cos steve will teach you more about NDB approaches and hold in one sim session than you thought possible!!

All the best

Box :)

[Polar_stereographic]

boxjockey99

Totaly agree about the sim instructor. Best instructor I have EVER had. Top bloke too. I just hope that his medical comes through.

Cheshire cat EGHH

I was at PAT before SFT went under and after, and I never had a price rise because of that. Whereas I am not about to defend PAT as I have nothing to do with them, I don't understand why you are having a pop at them. Maybe you have a vested interest else where. Remember, as always, the price it costs has more to do with what it costs to get a result, not what the hourly rate is. Very misleading, and I do not consider the hourly cost indicative of much.

PS

[A7E Driver]

Cheshire ... "10th most qualified pilot in UK...."

What nonsense.

[Dutchie]

You get what you pay for with everything in life and the same goes for PAT I suppose.

While I was there (well before the demise of SFT) I have learned the most important skill of a pilot while doing a CPL: waiting. At the time there where plenty of aircraft and instructors I just happened to be there when the weather was messed up for days on a row. Which is one of the problems of flying in the UK...

When I left there was a brief problem when there where too many CPL students at one time. But this had three reasons, the above mentioned delay in arrival of the second sierra, bad weather and some people who had failed and thus stayed longer than scheduled.

As far as bumping up prices I do think that Cheshire Cat works for BFC <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

As far as doing the IR at PAT goes: excellent! Believe me they do not spend your money on the building but mainly on the instuctors and the aircraft! And that is what you want, no hourbuilding instructors but all very professional career instructors, three of them are CAA examiners as well which is quite helpful.

Sorry to learn Steve is leaving, wish him all the best as he is, as mentioned above, an excellent instructor on the Sim. If you read this Steve I hope you have sorted your medical and fly the beautiful prop tristars again soon!!

[18greens]

I would advise you look at both PAT and BFC.

Both have good reputations ( and both are probably better that SFT ever was).

With ref to the pricing thing, I recall BFCs prices changing post SFT but not PATs.

PAT do have excellent a/c. they have 4 identically equipped Duchess's. This is very useful since the training ac do go tech and you will find ourself swapping about. On that note I think it is a good idea not to get used to one specific plane. You can guarantee it won't be available for your test. When I went to PAT BFC only had 1 twin. If this went US then no more training or tests. ( I believe they have 2 now). At the end of the day it your choice good luck. The IR was the hardest thing I've ever done but very rewarding.

E-Mail me if you want instructor and accomodation tips.

[QNH 1013]

Cheshire Cat, . .I hope you are not the BFC's version of SFT's "Send Clowns"

[Megaton]

Or xxx's version of @&*%^!

(xxx's used to avoid litigation)

[flite idol]

How do you become (x)th most qualified instructor.? Where is the leauge table published.? What are the criteria.? If someone presented themselves as so I would suspect they have some issues to deal with.!

[rebeccadblake]

polar- PAT put there prices up about a month after SFT where said to be having difficulties not straight after they went bankrupt.

static- yes the CFI at bournemouth flying is.. why dont you tell me why he is not, before you comment.

18 greens, BFC haven't changed there prices becuase ATC put the landing fee's up by 10% and the insurance after Sep 11th also went up by 20%, although they changed there prices in dec.

QHN.. fock off! + nothing is wrong with send clowns, i like him as a person, although I must admit he certainly knows what to say to get everyone annoyed.

flite idol - the CFI at Bounemouth flying club has the following qualifations..

ATPL/IR/FI.E

he can teach..

PPL . .IMC. .NIGHT. .AEROBATIC. .MULTI. .CPL. .IR

he can teach people to teach..

PPL . .IMC. .NIGHT. .AEROBATIC. .MULTI. .CPL . .IR

he can examin

PPL . .IMC. .NIGHT . .AEROBATIC. .MULTI. .CPL . .IR

he can also do.. . .flight tests

type ratings on different things as well as normal things like..

Extra's . .Hawks. .yak's. .+ all the usualls... .cessna's. .pipers. .beech's

. .+ he even changed the heinken barrel, when it ran out!!

this is what I have picked up from converstation, god knows what else he can do!

[MorningGlory]

Cheshire Cat,

You know, I've never read a post of yours where you have not been spouting complete and utter garbage!

[flite idol]

OOOERRR, why settle for tenth best.!

[boxjockey99]

flite idol - the CFI at Bounemouth flying club has the following qualifations..

ATPL/IR/FI.E

he can teach..

PPL . .IMC. .NIGHT. .AEROBATIC. .MULTI. .CPL. .IR

he can teach people to teach..

PPL . .IMC. .NIGHT. .blah blah blah.....

Surely any mere mortal can get all of these qualifications assuming they have a a big enough dollop of cash, so how does that make him 10th best, there are no league tables in flying, we're all human and with experience comes ability (and more ratings!!)

I'm sure he is very capable and that BFC is a very good school but there is only one of him and he is the CFI what are the chances EVERY student will have him as their instructor? I can only comment about PAT, not having been to BFC, all PAT instructors were older guys (bar one - you know who you are)who have flown countless thousands of hours and have masses of experience to pass on.

I think that gets my point across, if it was all about being the best we'd have joined the USAF/USN!!

Box. . :) :) :) :) :)

[MaxAOB]

PAT were excellent and i recommend them. Haven't a clue about BFC but if i had to do it all over again PAT is where i would go.

You other 2 twonks stick to the original thread or don't bother!. . <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[Polar_stereographic]

Cheshire cat EGHH

Two quotes from you:

"PAT are quite expensive, they bumped there prices up as soon as SFT went bust"

and

"PAT put there prices up about a month after SFT where said to be having difficulties not straight after they went bankrupt"

When was it declared that SFT where in dificulties? I was at PAT from August until Jan, and there was NO price rise in that time. It was in August that the SFT rumours where banned on this forum IIRC.

As for the 10th most qualified......

I'm comming to the conclusion that you're becomming the South coast equivalent of Ronch, talking pure rubish, somewhat biased at that.

Moderators, time for some policing required here. Having had a relevant post (in my view) bumped off this forum due to bandwidth problems, surely we should see some of this rubish removed from this forum as well.

I refer above to the following if you are interested:

<a href="http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=41&t=002575" target="_blank">http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=41&t=002575</a>

PS

[ 12 February 2002: Message edited by: Polar_stereographic ]</p>

[rebeccadblake]

I really should dignify this with an answer, however.

I only go by what people tell me, I am sorry if its not true. I only hear complaints from PAT's students, becuase they can't get an a/c or FI, they tend to bite of more than they can chew.

yes L***e is the 10th most qualifed pilot in the UK, ask him yourself! becuase I cant be bothered to keep re-iterating myself.

what is the point in you saying that he is not without speaking to him!.

I am not coming back to this post again, as usual the "ppruners" have something shuved up their as*'s and always are trying to make an aguement outta everything...

do yourselfs a favor, get of your a** or try to find something better to talk about, other than agueing with each other all the time, We need more "intelagent" conversations on here!

ITS A RUMOUR NETWORK!! HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Say again s l o w l y]

PAT were excellent when i did my I/R with them a couple of years ago Mark, Steve, Anthony etc... are all first class. I hope Steve is going back to his beloved Trilanders, as he once put it, "the only a/c with 3 critical engines"!

PAT isn't the largest school in the world, so they may suffer from tech problems a bit more than a big place, but their professionalism can't be doubted. I would recommend them to anyone.

P.S. Chesire, wind your neck in, you may find it getting blown off. 10th most qualified pilot...... my a**e. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

[flite idol]

Can`t resist, something shuved up our ass`.? Cheshire Cat you really are quite a good laugh mate. Contest of the day; L***e.???? Who can he be,? Lasie, Loone, I can`t make it work. I`d ask him myself if I could work it out. Anyway it`s a shame CC will not be returning to this thread, so I`m off to do something more intelagent.

[QNH 1013]

Aviation Chick,

All of those who have done their IR at PAT and contributed to this thread (seven including me) have recommended it. The only person who seems to be suggesting that they are not as good as another Bournemouth school does not appear to have yet completed a PPL. If you are at the stage where you can commence IR training, I'm sure you can form your own conclusions from this. . .(Pub gossip vs first-hand experience).

I too, must confirm the excellence of Steve's sim training at PAT and like everyone else he has trained, I hope he is soon back "island hopping".

Finally, good luck with the IR. The feeling when you get a pass is impossible to put into words.. . . .-------------------------. .Note to Cheshire Cat: I think your claims about BFC on this and other threads are reducing rather than enhancing the credibility of BFC.

[Gearupandorrf]

Hi all,. .I completed my IR there in June 2000, and cannot recommend PAT enough. As arduous and nerve- racking as the IR can be, Mark, Steve and Anthony made the whole experience as pleasurable as it can possibly be. Lynn in the office was also a great help. I know that there was a bit of a backlog of CPL students around May when I was there but this was due to a combination of waiting for the second Sierra to come online and the weather. As far as the IR goes, availability of A/C or instructors was never a problem and I personally flew 3 trips a day in the sim, 1 trip everyday in the A/C plus a back seat every day (never underestimate what you can learn while back- seating). Steve has, in my opinion, got to be the most encouraging and proficient sim instructor around. (Steve- if you read this I hope your medical gets cleared soon and you are back flying around your beloved Alderney!). Before the IR, I had a phobia of the hold, due to IR rated pilots I know telling me how hard it was to learn. After 5 minutes, Steve had me so comfortable in the hold that I could have stayed there all day! The same goes for those NDB approaches. Mark is also one of natures true gentlemen, and out there in the aircraft I got the same excellent standard of training that Steve gave me in the sim. As Mark said "as soon as I've stopped you from chasing that ADF needle and over correcting on the approaches, then you'll be ready for test". With his wealth of experience, Mark can show you IFR flying techniques up there that will make the whole thing seem easier than what you thought it would be.

I think that the difference between an average instructor and an excellent instructor is the ability to quickly assess how an individual student learns (ie. thought process) and tailor the tuition appropriately. The guys at PAT have the ability to teach the same thing a number of different ways just in case you don't "get it" first time. Standard of the Duchess' are excellent.

And who cares if you have to pay a little more at PAT (if this is the case at all). As with everything in life, you get what you paid for. Sometimes signing up at a school merely on price is a false economy because it just may be that the A/C are substandard, or the instructors are only interested in the hours and don't have the inclination/ experience to have the ability to teach the hard stuff in a mutitude of ways. Thus it is easy to (and many do) go over the course hours. This eliminates the up front saving anyway. Thing about the IR test as well, is that you only want to do it once. The privelidge of going on test will cost 564 UKP, and another 5-600 for the aircraft hire. I finished up on hours with a first time pass at 260TT, so I couldn't have been happier.

No, I don't have any association with PAT apart from being a very happy and appreciatine customer who got the job done right, first time.

So that makes it 8 out of 8.

Cheers all, Gearupandorrf

[Dutchie]

Dear Cheshire Cat,

May I agree with QNH1013 that all students who have been to PAT fully support the place and rightly so. I am not really impressed by your credentials as you mention them in another thread (see below).

[quote] <hr></blockquote>Cheshire cat EGHH . .Just another number

Member # 39513 . . posted 11 February 2002 19:29 . .--------------------------------------------------------------------------------. .I work in Bournemouth flying club ( the bar next door to the school). .Which ironicaly, has sod all to do with the flying school next door!... did try and get a discount, but didn't work!

--------------------

BTW my spelling is always ****t so dont bother correcting me on it, as I know!

. .--------------------------------------------------------------------------------. .From: Bournemouth, dorset | Registered: Aug 2001 | IP: Logged

I have flown at both BFC and PAT and yes there are some excellent instructors at both. The main difference is that at PAT they only teach commercial pilots, period. And they do an excellent job at it as well.

I found that while BFC is a nice place it has a different feel to it and even if they chance their name they still have the good old flying club feel to it. The Bar makes that feeling even worse even though it is run seperately.

The point you have to appreciate is that when one works for an airport then the other airport is always crap. If one works for an airline than the on-time performance of the other airline is always worse, and when one works for a flying school than the other school is always worse. (except fort salaries which always seem to be better at other places.)

You refer to this being a rumour network. Yes but up to an extend. A lot of our would be collueges who are about to part of thousands of pounds want to make a proper decision and this thread can help them to make a decision. Your one sided view of the north east side of the airport does not help the argument. The one thing that helps your fellow aviatiors is your experience at a particular school good or bad and share that information.

[QNH 1013]

Note to ex-PAT IR students:

I've just spoken to Steve at PAT this morning and passed on all your good wishes because he doesn't have internet access.. .He thanks you all and says that the CAA have told him they won't tell him the result for another ten weeks !

[Polar_stereographic]

The man must be livid.

I'll ring him later....

PS