View Full Version : How Would You Rate This Flying?
Fonsini
5th May 2016, 20:36
The original (i.e. old) promotional video for the MBB Bo 105. As professional pilots would you commend the pilot for his skill and adeptness, or would you assess this as reckless ?
Just looking to validate my layman's opinion.
LiveLeak.com - The insane helicopter pilot, skills HIGHEST LEVEL...
212man
5th May 2016, 21:02
The 105 was developed in the height of the Cold War as an anti-tank and observation helicopter. It's perceived adversary was the Russian hordes coming across the German plains. Nap of the earth flying was (and still is) an intrinsic part of that defense, conducted by trained military pilots proficient in that environment. This video highlights it's suitability for that role.
What was the question again?
212man
5th May 2016, 21:04
The 105 was developed in the height of the Cold War as an anti-tank and observation helicopter. It's perceived adversity was the Russian hordes coming across the German plains. Nap of the earth flying was (and still is) an intrinsic part of that defense, conducted by trained military pilots proficient in that environment. This video highlights its suitability for that role.
What was the question again?
Self loading bear
5th May 2016, 21:21
In Top Gear they always display a message like "this footage was recorded on a Road closed for normal traffic". This demo is clearly from before that era.
Though I notice they did have closed all meadows for normal cow traffic!!
Cheers SLB
HLCPTR
5th May 2016, 22:50
This video dates back to the mid-70s. The aircraft was a production model with no modifications. It was flown by one of MBB's test pilots. Unfortunately, I forget his name. He did a number of impressive aerobatic flights as well.
PAXfips
5th May 2016, 23:01
His name is Charly Zimmermann.
Another one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93zy3OqXMPw
93zy3OqXMPw
Democritus
5th May 2016, 23:03
He was Siegfried (Ziggy) Hoffman and he was killed doing a Bo105 display in 1989.......or as PAXfips says it could have been Zimmermann. Conflicting articles in many places online.
Pofman
5th May 2016, 23:47
I thought that was the way we all flew in the 1960s. If the baddies can't see you they can't shoot you. The rigid head on the Bo105 just made it easier The Royals never complained - you saved them a walk!
would you assess this as reckless ?A resounding yes. You'll note the video says "skills highest level". The man had skill, but when you live on the edge like that it only takes one slip and all the skill in the world can't save you. Ask Dennis Kenyon. Went for a ride, along with other company pilots, when he was demonstrating the 105 in Oz. The most frightening ever, and were glad to get back safe and sound, and the majority of us had seen combat. Was no surprise therefore to read of his demise.
That is a very skilled pilot demonstrating the aircraft capabilities in a very well planned/orchestrated performance. It's no accident that the camera is perfectly placed to capture the "excitement".
If that were an unplanned/impromptu demo captured on a cellphone video then I would say it is a very reckless pilot.
My two cents.
John Eacott
7th May 2016, 04:55
There have been many threads about this video:
German BO105 TV video clip (http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/175920-german-bo105-tv-video-clip.html)
Aerobatics in a BO105 (http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/169597-aerobatics-bo105.html)
BO-105 playing in the trees (http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/270433-bo-105-playing-trees.html)
and the fatal crash already discussed here:
BO105 fatal accident back in 2006(?) (http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/321141-bo105-fatal-accident-back-2006-a.html)
with this video:
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Charly Zimmermann was an ex army pilot doing a lot of demo flying for MBB trying to sell the aircraft to potential customers. The above video "Flying Tiger" however shows the former MBB Chief Test Pilot Siegfried Hoffmann. Siggy died when practicing low level flying for the movie "firebirds" with Niklas Cage (in Germany that movie was called " Airborne -Flügel aus Stahl).
HLCPTR
8th May 2016, 23:11
That accident happened in central NJ. The rumor was floated that he misjudged his altitude in the loop due to the much shorter "scrub" pine in that area as opposed to the much taller pine in Germany.
imuney
9th May 2016, 00:25
Reaching a cyclic stop coupled with an aerodynamic phenomenon while in a slow and steep right turn is a well known problem in the Bo105. This is recoverable at altitude but it will scare the living daylights out of you. The RFM limitation section contains an explanation.
Experiencing this problem at low altitude and downwind sealed his fate.
imuney:
".... and downwind sealed his fate"
how does the downwind part become a factor?
MightyGem
9th May 2016, 22:17
The original (i.e. old) promotional video for the MBB Bo 105. As professional pilots would you commend the pilot for his skill and adeptness, or would you assess this as reckless ?
Brings back memories of wazzing around the German countryside like that in Gazelles and Lynxes. :ok:
ShyTorque
9th May 2016, 23:33
...and Puma.
how does the downwind part become a factor? you've not done many wingovers at low level have you AnFI?
It is easier to lose airspeed going from into wind to downwind because you tend to use external references for such an aggressive manoeuvre - coupled with that, the downwind element tends to push you closer to your intended display centre and the tendency will be to pull harder to make the centrepoint.
I believe the 105 suffers from the same acceleration cross-couple as the Lynx - when you pull straight back on the cyclic, you get an undemanded roll to the right - this is compensated for by applying some left cyclic as you pull but that erodes your left lateral cyclic margins for rolling out of a turn.
The moral is - don't pull hard in a right turn.
crab you are a stalker
yes i have
I met both pilots, I don't think your assessment of the relevance of the schoolboy downwind factors is correct in their case and really gets nowhere near the inevitability of sealing his fate ".... and downwind sealed his fate". Interesting theory about the size of trees though.
crab you are a stalker the only way to treat a troll - your contribution to this thread - as with so many - was irrelevant but you couldn't help yourself.
yes i have more unsubstantiated guff about your flying experience that you won't ever detail properly
I didn't say 'downwind sealed his fate' I explained why being downwind on the exit of a wingover can be hazardous - but probably every pilot except you knew that
PAXfips
11th May 2016, 06:05
Spunk: do you've a source for this to share?
I did some searches after Democratius brought up Siggy - and I can find some 50/50 claims for either of them.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Zimmermann_%28Pilot%29 says that he didnt do it, but lacks a source aswell.
This one has a lot of nice details about the BO105, but lacks that certain flight.
BO105 - Hubschrauber - Helicopter (http://www.planet-helicopter.de/deutsch-1/hubschraubertypen/bo105/)
Just curious :)
skadi
11th May 2016, 21:40
Spunk: do you've a source for this to share?
I did some searches after Democratius brought up Siggy - and I can find some 50/50 claims for either of them.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Zimmermann_%28Pilot%29 says that he didnt do it, but lacks a source aswell.
This one has a lot of nice details about the BO105, but lacks that certain flight.
BO105 - Hubschrauber - Helicopter (http://www.planet-helicopter.de/deutsch-1/hubschraubertypen/bo105/)
Just curious :)
The pilot in the video was definitely not Charly Zimmermann!
Spunk is correct, it was Siegfried Hoffmann.
skadi
SilsoeSid
11th May 2016, 22:24
Yet more evidence, along with that marvellous post on the 'Torque rise phenomenon' thread, that AnFI's surname truly is 'Impersonator' :rolleyes:
skadi
12th May 2016, 07:33
Yet more evidence, along with that marvellous post on the 'Torque rise phenomenon' thread, that AnFI's surname truly is 'Impersonator' :rolleyes:
Just my word.
About 30 years ago I had a conversation with C. Zimmermann in which we also mentioned this video. ..
skadi