The Zurabatic Cartwheel

[Fonsini]

Legend has it that Meteor pilots would prove their skill on the type by attempting the famous aerobatic manoeuvre created by Janusz Zurakowski. Do we have anyone who actually tried it ?

"Start with a vertical climb to 4,000 ft by which point the Meteor has slowed to around 80 mph. Cut the power of one engine causing the aircraft to pivot. When the nose is pointing downwards, throttle the second engine back and the aircraft will continue to rotate through a further 360 degrees on momentum alone having lost nearly all vertical velocity. Carrying out the cartwheel and recovering from it without entering an inverted spin (which the Meteor could not be brought out of) requires great skill."

Oh for a video of that.

[BEagle]

See Highlights Of Farnborough 1951 - British Pathé (http://www.britishpathe.com/video/highlights-of-farnborough-1951) from 2:14 or thereabouts.

The manoeuvre was only possible with the private venture aircraft he used, it was not possible in a standard Meteor F Mk 8.

[Dan Gerous]

Nice vid Beagle. That looks a bit cramped in the cockpit of the Sea Venom at 4:18.

[safetypee]

Unlikely to be repeated in squadron service as the external stores were loaded asymmetrically so that the weight difference helped the gyrations.

The subsequent video clip, with a symmetric load of rockets was for sales promotion taken at a different time.

[langleybaston]

Fantastic nostalgia trip, many thanks for the video ............ stopped me in my tracks!

[brokenlink]

Also read somewhere (possibly John Kents autobiography) that repeated attempts at this manouvre led to wrinkles down one side of the airframe.

[Danny42C]

Never dared to try it, but can see how it might work with those two great bob-weights out on the wings.

External stores ? Forget it !

D.

[ORAC]

Flown with wingtip tanks and 24 rockets

https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1951/1951%20-%202021.PDF#navpanes=0&scrollbar=0&page=1&view=FitH,0

http://cdn-live.warthunder.com/uploads/57/0866e045da47ca4430d6abd95d7e789b75427a/Gloster_Reaper_Meteor.jpg

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=796BN81l3K8C&pg=PA53&lpg=PA53&dq=The+Zurabatic+Cartwheel+24+rockets&source=bl&ots=AtD0hNkv1q&sig=gGnoWa6BgPNXuu4i6OtdbZlxls4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi0hb-Wo7nMAhUDWSYKHQubB10Q6AEIHTAA

[L9172]

I have no idea how this wonderful manoeuvre was performed but I remember being there at the age of ten having managed to exhaust my poor old Mum with my blandishments (my Dad was RAF and was killed early in the war) and persuade her to take me. This was my first exposure to an air show and led to a lifelong delight in elderly aircraft (well, they're elderly now).

It seems almost impossible to me now but I actually saw the Avro 707 series and the BP 111 in the air plus all the other wonderful aircraft shown in that film such as the Sperrin.

I'm in danger of weeping on my keyboard, at the age of 75, when I compare what we saw then with the state of our aircraft industry now.

But watching that short film has been absolutely great and I think I'll have an extra glass of wine this evening, to celebrate what once was world leading.

[Fonsini]

Thanks BEagle - you deliver the goods as usual, that cartwheel looked positively dangerous - but I suppose that was the point.

That video makes me weep, and not entirely for reasons that are aviation related - my father would have been a young man in the Royal Signals in 1951 and before he died he told me that he honestly believed that he was lucky enough to enjoy Britain in her best years.

A simply wonderful time.

[rlsbutler]

"Unlikely to be repeated in squadron service as the external stores were loaded asymmetrically so that the weight difference helped the gyrations." (Safetypee #4)

This does not ring true. The detailed descriptions conclude with the aircraft entering a spin, although I am not sure why that was necessary and I wonder if we would have called it an incipient spin in my time.

I would have thought that, as has been mentioned already, the wingtip tanks were important and the racks of RP were useful to maximise the moment of inertia - no point in stinting on those loads.

But to have the wings loaded asymmetrically when committed to a spin would be looking for unnecessary trouble, even if you are Zuracowski.

[Arclite01]

L9172 - what is the significance of your user name ?

Is that your father's aircraft serial number ?

Arc

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Might be worth a revisit; http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/48516-jan-zurakowski.html

[Fonsini]

It never ceases to amaze me how a truly gifted pilot can make an aircraft do things that others cannot. I am inevitably reminded of Werner Voss.

Those test pilots in the immediate post-war era really were something - Roly Falk, John Cunningham, Roland Beaumont, John Derry, and of course Zurakowski.

[L9172]

Yes Arclite01, L9172 was my father's Blenheim IV. From 17 OTU at Upwood it broke up over South Wales on 12th June 1940. My father was the Observer and he and the WOp/AG were killed while the pilot survived. The pilot went on to fly Beaufighters, was shot down and made POW and died in the crash of a Dakota in France in 1946.

I go every year on the anniversary to a memorial to my father and the WOp/AG in the village where they crashed and I have met the WOp/AG's sister and the pilot's son. I shall be there on 12th June this year and for as many years as I can manage.

[Arclite01]

L9172 - all respect to you for that.

I flew into Upwood last year - I doubt that your Father would recognise much of what is left nowadays, although a few bits remain..................

My local station (Watton) was also a Blenheim base but sadly has suffered from the ravages of time and developers also.

Blenheim Boy by Richard Passmore is worth a read if you can get a copy second hand (Amazon maybe)

Regards

Arc

**Quick Amazon check shows several second hand from £1.54 - or the audio cassette version but that is £25.00***

[Wander00]

I was at Watton 66-69, and then was invalided. Got a VR(T) commission with Ely ATC, to find my CO, Bob Browne, had been an observer on Blenheims at Watton. Must have been a pretty exceptional "survivor". nice guy too. There is a poster on here was Cadet WO at the time and will remember him.

[L9172]

Thank you Arclite01. I have not been to Upwood since I was a schoolboy in the RAF Cadets, but I visited the local churchyard a few years ago to pay my respects to the Blenheim boys lying there. I did know Richard Passmore (and have read his book) and worked with him on Blenheim research. I seem to recall that he had a stroke and lost a lot of his capabilities a few years before he died. He was a teacher in the area in which I lived but at a different school from mine.

Wander00. I have not come across Bob Browne although in my researches I have collected several thousand names of people who served in Blenheims, many of whom of course did not survive the experience.

[Rocket2]

Just picked up on this thread after a little while away & somewhat luckily I have an almost mint copy of the flying program for the 1951 airshow - anyone care to give an estimate of it's value (no I'm not selling - just interested)
R2

[G-CPTN]

Watching that video I caught sight of the Brabazon.
I was lucky enough to see it land at Filton.

[Royalistflyer]

I was eleven for this show - as a childhood Farnborough fanatic. Marvellous video Beags thanks! By the time I got into the Air Force, there was one very senior officer still flying his "own" Meteor and one flight line of Vampires, flyable but for maintenance instruction only. Of course Canberras still in service. But it is great seeing those long- forgotten types - the "insurance" Sperrin, the Vulcan aerodynamic models (one of which was still flying when I got in), the shiny new Valiant. The days when we as a country could still actually DO things. How far we have fallen.

[rlsbutler]

Being evidently of the same age as Royalist and another habitué of the Farnborough airshows of that era, I wonder whom he knew to have his “own” Meteor – AM Sir Richard Atcherley ?

I well remember that the Commandant of CFS (in my time Air Cdre Bird-Wilson) owned his “own” Mosquito. I will not have been the only course student to sit behind its windscreen and imagine an Amiens-type attack on the hangar in front of me (and speculate about the discomfort of my imaginary nav).

[Danny42C]

BEagle,

Thank you for a wonderful wallow in nostalgia ! - how many types, in service and experimental, we could field then - the contrast with today is pitiful.

Many names completely forgotten now (at least by me), but then could trip off the lips of any schoolboy. Loved the fairweather cumulus background in the early part (the photographer was lucky there), and the clever way the head- on shots were presented, with the subjects sashaying to the camera.

And oh, those 'greaser' landings !

A beautiful piece of work altogether - brings a lump to the throat, it do !

Was young then, at Valley with 20 Squadron, flying Spitfires and Vampires, and had a few training hours at Driffield on the Meteor, but no more.

Eheu, fugaces....

Danny.

PS: Once heard a story that an (Ambassador ?) display aircraft couldn't start one engine; but was light, stripped out inside and little fuel. Test Pilot managed to take off on one. That brought the house down !

Any truth in it ?

[Danny42C]

G-CPTN (your #20)
...Watching that video I caught sight of the Brabazon.
I was lucky enough to see it land at Filton...

Story: After landing at Filton on its first test flight, Bill Pegg (the Test Pilot) was supposed to have been asked by the excited reporters: "What's it like to fly a great big aircraft like this ?"

Bill thought for a moment, then replied: "Don't know really - I just flew the front end and the rest followed on behind ".

Don't know if it's true.

Danny.

[Tinribs]

I recall a movement that was "interesting" in the Chippy, though nothing as clever as this lot, called the Porteus . One entered a stall turn about ten knots faster than usual and at what would be the stalling speed in wingborne flight full in spin rudder and elevator was applied causing a sort of spin but in the vertical plane, centralising when once round or thereabouts and then completing a fairly normal stall turn recovery Done nicely it looked good but felt horrible. It was supposed to be very bad for the airframe and was eventually banned.seems it caused many loose rivets down the back end

[lsd]

Did porteous loops with Fred L. (my ex-Javelin NF pilot turned QFI) over Nottingham during our night flying phase at 2FTS Syerston - never really understood what what was happening but wouldn't have missed it for the world ... and that was what flying was all about for a aviation mad 19 year old,,,,, oh!

[megan]

PS: Once heard a story that an (Ambassador ?) display aircraft couldn't start one engine; but was light, stripped out inside and little fuel. Test Pilot managed to take off on one. That brought the house down !

Any truth in it ? Quite believable Danny. When the Aero Commander was introduced they did a demonstration flight from Oklahoma to Washington on one engine. Had to be one engine because one prop was stored in the cabin.

[rlsbutler]

I did over twenty years of Air Experience flying on Chipmunks and Bulldogs.

The check rides would often include a full-deflection entry to the spin, from right-way-up. My logic was that to do the same thing upside down was essentially no more dangerous or destructive. So my version of the Porteous loop was just that, half way through an ordinary loop.

Cautious not to cause unnecessary trouble, I did not discuss this with fellow instructors but offered it freely to the sort of young customers who might be amused by it.

I think the manoeuvre that Tinribs described (#25) was liable from time to time to end in a tail-slide, which was never going to be how mine would fail. For me a tail-slide both felt horrible and, if you did not hold firmly to the rudder and elevator, no doubt loosened rivets.

[Warmtoast]

Being evidently of the same age as Royalist and another habitué of the Farnborough airshows of that era, I wonder whom he knew to have his “own” Meteor – AM Sir Richard Atcherley ?
I well remember that the Commandant of CFS (in my time Air Cdre Bird-Wilson) owned his “own” Mosquito. I will not have been the only course student to sit behind its windscreen and imagine an Amiens-type attack on the hangar in front of me (and speculate about the discomfort of my imaginary nav).

Re personal Aircraft
Group Captain (later Air Chief Marshal) Denis Smallwood was Station Commander at Biggin Hill when I was there 1953-55. With two auxiliary squadrons (600 & 615) and one regular squadron (41), Biggin’s normal working week was Wednesday to Sunday. ISTR that at the end of the working week on Sunday, the CO was in the habit of flying off to Honiley in a Meteor (one of 41’s perhaps), returning first thing on Wednesday.

Don’t think the Meteor he used was a “personal” one, but his weekly trips to the Midlands (to see family – perhaps?) was well known on the station as he tended to be off late on Sunday as the last of Biggin’s weekend flyers returned to base.

[rlsbutler]

I entered the service in 1958 at the age of 18. Royalist tells us that he is of the same age. Surely Meteors were confined to training and trials by then. I am expecting Royalist to name a commandant at Farnborough, Boscombe or Manby (where "Splinters" was 1961-63) or otherwise a very senior HQ figure of the time. I only mentioned "Batchy" because he arrived once by Meteor at Cranwell while I was there.

[nzhills]

Hi,

I realise this is a little late but I can remember my Dad saying that when he was flying Meteor NF11's that quite a few guys tried Zurabatics, (cartwheel), and they all failed because the F4 didn't have the thrust and the F8 didn't have the inertia, (i..e couldn't put rockets and tip tanks outboard).

Slightly off topic but has anyone else thought the Supermarine 508 was just a Fouga Magister on steroids, i.e. straight wing, vee tail, 2 engines in the wing roots?

Regards
Mark

[BEagle]

Not sure how you came to that conclusion about the Supermarine 508, given that it flew a year before the CM.170 and was about 3x the latters's MTOM.....

[nzhills]

Yes, okay I should of said the Magister was atoned down 508. Just an thought, great minds think alike.