Pilot hit by ground vehicle during walk-around! [Archive]

Land Hopper

23rd Apr 2016, 21:17

Was also cautioned to be careful by a dispatcher when heading out of the walkaround the other day. Said the pilot bumped his head and was taken to the hospital.

Coincidentally found out that the rampers are not required to have a Dubai (or any) drivers license to drive on the ramp. Only an airport issued drivers permit. So be careful out there. :ugh:

Coincidentally the information you received is incorrect.

In order to attain an Airport Driving Permit you must hold a valid UAE licence.

I would suggest that in future the information that you post is checked for validity before moving ahead.

As we all know, working on the ramp is very hazardous and every individual must always be fully aware of their surroundings and what is going on.

I would like to ask whether the individual involved was actually wearing a high viz tabard as I always seem to see folk not complying with this.

That being said, I wish him well and hopefully a speedy recovery.

notapilot15

24th Apr 2016, 01:10

QCM

24th Apr 2016, 01:33

As demonstrated everyday on the roads a driving licence does not prevent you from bad driving...0 risk system does not exist.

JammedStab

24th Apr 2016, 02:54

It does seem like the walk around is the most dangerous part of the flight. Number one priority should be looking around for other vehicles. And avoid the temptation to walk between dollies.

ruserious

24th Apr 2016, 03:02

Heard from the FO I just flew with that the pilot who got knocked over was taken to RH where he was refused treatment as they did not know who was going to pay for it, put back in ambulance and taken to American Hospital and during trip had to be resuscitated.
No idea if it's true, but would explain the very quick email from Medical dept last week about how we could go anywhere to get emergency treatment.

Kobus Dune

24th Apr 2016, 04:49

Land Hopper

You are such an obvious "management troll" that it's in fact funny to read your first - and probably unique - post :

I would suggest that in future the information that you post is checked for validity before moving ahead.
As we all know, working on the ramp is very hazardous and every individual must always be fully aware of their surroundings and what is going on.
I would like to ask whether the individual involved was actually wearing a high viz tabard ....

Calmcavok

24th Apr 2016, 05:40

I would like to ask whether the individual involved was actually wearing a high viz tabard as I always seem to see folk not complying with this.

You do get a great view of the ramp from the outside deck by Costa. :D

P7xkk

24th Apr 2016, 05:50

The Ground Safety chaps are investigating. I heard from them that the pilot was doing his WAI and a "baggage truck" reversed into him & knocked him out cold as a result.
No further word yet, the GS boyo in question has yet to be seen since last week. More to follow i'm sure.

rdr

24th Apr 2016, 05:51

Kobus Dunce,
when you cannot fault a guys argument, you attack him personally. You have done neither.
Instead, you have simply posted his content verbatim. If you cant contribute to the thread, quit whining. Many have had close calls on the walk around.

fatbus

24th Apr 2016, 06:58

Was it an EK pilot

Buford

24th Apr 2016, 07:41

We've been told by several doctors in Dubai that they're reluctant to direct bill EK any more because they take 6-9 months to settle their bills. Not only that, but one well-known clinic said they offer EK 20% discount on their general consultation rates but recently EK has refused to pay the discounted rate and instead demanded to pay a rate of 45% of the regular rate! The Doc was surprised to hear we pay for 'insurance' each month - they thought we got everything for free. Several clinics are refusing to take EK staff as patients because they're sick of not being paid on time.

Land Hopper

24th Apr 2016, 09:35

Kobus

I am not as you call it 'an obvious management troll' in any way or form. I am just an ordinary worker bee like the vast majority of us all.

I would also argue the fact that my office gives me a much better view of what happens on the ramp here at DXB than your cockpit too.

There are just a couple of points that I would like to make though:

The guys here would not be able to operate the equipment without an ADP as this is all access controlled and only activated by swiping their card. The same goes to the expiry date. Once over, the card simply will not start the ignition.

My next point is about adherence to wearing high visibility vests. Unfortunately, DA do not enforce this and even have an AAN in place that says you only need to wear this once you are within the 'ERA' of the particular stand being worked on. Again, this is not limited to the ramp teams but every individual that moves in this area.

Finally, I would like to say that after working in a good number of airports around the world the ground teams here do a fantastic job in very difficult and trying circumstances. Quite often in the face of adversity considering the EK decision making process coming from the 7th Floor as well as very often vindictive and spiteful Dispatchers trying to throw their minimal lack of authority around just because they don't like a particular individual.

At the end of the day, I repeat that ramp areas are very dangerous areas and everyone must move around as if they have eyes everywhere at the same time. I have seen too many incidents and fatal accidents to remember. The only point I was trying to make in my original post was that one should validate what they are told before posting as it only goes towards distorting the truth about what happened.

PositiveRate876

24th Apr 2016, 10:07

Coincidentally the information you received is incorrect.

In order to attain an Airport Driving Permit you must hold a valid UAE licence.

I would suggest that in future the information that you post is checked for validity before moving ahead.

As we all know, working on the ramp is very hazardous and every individual must always be fully aware of their surroundings and what is going on.

I would like to ask whether the individual involved was actually wearing a high viz tabard as I always seem to see folk not complying with this.

That being said, I wish him well and hopefully a speedy recovery.
Excellent first post Land Hopper!

However if one has a driver's license here, they can get a much higher paying job than being a ramper in 60 degree heat index. And my information is checked for validity. Is yours?

fatbus

24th Apr 2016, 10:57

Anyone know if DXB uses heat index .ie suggested time at certain indexes

Aluminium shuffler

24th Apr 2016, 11:03

There are mountains of ASRs published in the weekly summaries about apron vehicles driving dangerously (all with no action because the drivers can't be identified), and frequent comments about the airport "investigating" the idea of painting ID numbers on the roofs of all vehicles so that dangerous drivers can be traced, but that would have repercussions for managers as well as for manning levels once folk started getting the heave-ho, so pound to a penny it'll never happen. I also heard a news headline on the local radio about an intended police clamp down on the vast number of unlicensed drivers in the UAE, and I think I heard an estimate of 50% (I was concentrating on something else at the time, so it could easily have been 15%, or some entirely different number, but given the standards on the roads...).

Land Hopper

24th Apr 2016, 11:09

Hi Postive Rate

Believe me, my facts are 100% accurate and I would like to think details in my second post show this.

You have a very valid point in that there are more better paid jobs on the market, however the Emirates Group is a very much sought after outfit to work for, especially for those folk coming generally from the sub continent.

The way in which the recently restructured job role for these guys has gone means that the 'drivers' are now actually paid more than this time a year ago.

Oh, just for reference (but not aimed at you, Positive) the general 'driver force' do not operate the kind of equipment that were involved in this accident due to their lack of ramp working experience. It's all too easy to throw mud and hope that it sticks nowadays.

GoreTex

24th Apr 2016, 12:19

I am sure the ground vehicle had tinted windows

Talparc

24th Apr 2016, 13:29

and the guy was wearing his super duper ray bans

just remember to use the little marked walkways if possible.

Kobus Dune

24th Apr 2016, 19:15

So Land Jumper

You are a sort of Senior Vice President for ground staff and magazines deliveries, and you pretend to have a better view on the apron, from your office than us from the cockpit...
Hi, why don't you come and fly our aircraft by yourself, buddy ? that would bring so many fantastic improvements, I'm sure you already have plenty of ideas.
Please patronize your Indian staff as much as you want about wearing the yellow jackets - just simply avoid doing that with pilots, you and us are not in the same schoolyard.
Beware also of not being swallowed by your printer, and also not falling from your rotating seat - and of course don't put your pen into your eye.

We pilots on those forums are always suspicious of people popping out of nowhere for a specific post, never to be heard again - although that's the best which could happen to you.

Anytime, baby.

Land Hopper

24th Apr 2016, 20:21

Kobus,

Amazing how a simple reply to a column has put your nose so obviously out of joint.

Just to bring you up to speed, I spend a vast majority of my time out and about with my teams, something your management seem to be missing out on. Also, I completely respect the work and conditions that my team work in.

I would also never wish to 'jump' into your seat as you put it. I am not qualified for this and would therefore never speak about how you guys perform.

What I do take offence from is the complete disregard that some of you so called 'professionals' endear to my teams.

I have been in this pit for as long as many of you and therefore feel completely qualified to throw back much of the abuse that you seem to like throwing down from your seats.

If you took a little time to try to understand what my guys go through them i'm sure much of your mud slinging would stop.

Yes, moan and bitch about your 90 odd hours all you want but the ramp and what happens down there is not your venting ground.

Yes, i'm new to this forum but considering your initial derogatory remarks I feel I can't stay quiet any longer.

I respect the professionals in this industry but sadly (although I personally and professionally know many flight deck) there are absolute ignorant muppets like yourself that just want to point fingers.

You are no better than those on the 7th floor and above.

I make no apologies for my outburst as I am sure that you would vent similar if someone wanted to try to smear your crew.

Evidently my original post knocked a few noses out of joint but I can promise you this, my comments and posts of the future will only contain fact when pushed.

Oh and as a final point, I recently left the 'Group' and have many axes to grind but I still will and always show support to those that do the hard graft in ridiculous conditions.

Land Hopper

24th Apr 2016, 23:42

Land Hopper

I will go out on a limb and say you are reading from the script.

Like any other questionable practice with this world class entity there are posts claiming there are ramp workers with expired licenses (not driving lic). Also ramp accidents are very common but are cleaned up quickly and quietly.

Of course any such claim will be vehemently denied, leaving analysts scratching their heads.

Another interesting aspect of this great entity, PR team jumps on any single violation anywhere else in the world and start preaching about rules, regulations and safe practices.

Unfortunately you are again, listening to hearsay and not fact.

The ground equipment used here in DXB is access controlled which means unless you have the requisite training and approvals you cannot start the ignition.

Now, I will say that in some instances the standard may not be to the level that many of us originate from. However, I will reiterate my initial point of seeing flight deck on too many occasions (day or night) think that they can perform their walk arounds without hi visibility jackets.

Let's get this straight right now, you are not exempted from this regulation and as such, if such an incident occurs, bear as much accountability as the operator in question.

I for one, cannot understand nor consider what this person is mentally going through right now, nor would I ever want to. But, to hear the accusations and downright terrible rhetoric aimed at him is an absolute disgrace.

As a professional in a professional industry, I feel sorry for this boy (who will more than likely get hung out to dry), irrespective of the safety procedures put in place.

What makes matters worse is the sheer ignorace of a few on this thread that think it is ok for the 'rampers' to wear hi visibilty jackets but to not do this themselves.

Yes, this would probably not have prevented this unfortunate occurrence but surely would have held better ground if all AANS (issued by DA) been observed by the entire aircrew here in DXB.

notapilot15

25th Apr 2016, 00:50

Land Hopper

None of your posts suggest ground ops is run as a tight ship. If I understand correctly all you are saying is ramp workers have worse working conditions than pilots. Your guys are way down the food chain, may be slightly above construction workers. What do you expect?

Land Hopper

25th Apr 2016, 01:10

Notapilot,

To be honest, this is a response that I think that most could ever expect from from so called 'professional' aviator. Putting yourself at the top of the food chain, lol

At the end of the day, without the professional ethics of the ground teams, you wouldn't even leave the parking stand.

If I read your next argument before you state it (EK Dispatchers being in charge) pull the other one. They are nothing but a waste of space and company finance doing diddly squat and covering their behinds like the vast majority of EK minions. I could tell you stories that would make you leave your cosy chair and double check everything on the loadsheet they give you because we all know they do not reconcile what is loaded against the planned documents because they need to get an 'on time departure'

If you want to suggest that the ramp teams in DXB are effectively construction workers then I suggest you really do get out of you cocoon/bubble. That is nothing other than sheer ignorance and arrogance.

You my friend, obviously represen the 'new Dubai' person rather than those that have been here during the good old days.

Very sad indeed.

TOGA!

25th Apr 2016, 05:27

no matter where you are on the food chain at ek, you are worked to the limit and pushed. ANYONE sitting in an air conditioned environment, who would look down upon the ground staff and think they are just a construction worker (category/class of human), might want to walk a KM in their shoes. everyone from staff, to hospitals to physicians to vendors is treated equally by ek.

I have never seen anyone walking the ramp without reflective vest unless going from crew bus to jet is counted.

the walk around IS the most dangerous part of the job. I stay near the jet and keep my head on a swivel.

Nikita81

25th Apr 2016, 06:13

Land Hooper, while I agree with you that some pilots can be an arrogant bunch acting like prima donnas, I have to say that from a human point of view I understand your attachment to your hard working employees and see your arguments as valid; but, from my professional point of view, I have to say that pilots are not the only ones responsible for their safety in this case as you insinuate by saying that they should always be aware and wear vests. Same applies to your ground staff as well.

If there were any real safety rules out there, the contact between the vehicle and a pilot would be highly unlikely. There should be a marked path for vehicles and a marked path for pedestrians, all together with clearly marked possible points of contact.

I would say that this is mostly management's fault again.

ruserious

25th Apr 2016, 06:52

There should be a marked path for vehicles and a marked path for pedestrians
That really is not the solution, especially as you have to cater for vastly differing sizes of aircraft and door configurations on the same gate/stand.

Land Hopper

25th Apr 2016, 08:59

Nikita,

There are pathways marked across certain areas but unfortunately this cannot be done once inside the ERA markings.

In DXB, although parking stands are standard sized and regulatory approved pretty much all other manouvring space has been removed. This means all unit to be loaded have to be staged within the ERA an reduces that room to move and operate in. Very challenging indeed.

Right now I don't see this changing as the airport is forging ahead with the remarsing of stands in Concourse C and grabbing any potential space they can find so as to be able to park another aircraft.

With the current infrastructure there is nothing that can be done to remove some of the congestion you will see on the majority of contact stands and this is something that brings about huge frustration.

All being said and done, with the amount of movement, equipment and units lying around, every individual irrespective of role needs to be fully alert of what they and those around them are doing.

Unfortunately the piece of equipment involved in this accident is probably one of the most dangerous that is operated. I know of many accidents causing serious injury to people here in DXB caused by them, not to mention the one in Switzerland late last year. They are so many blindspots when when unit is loaded on them that it is paramount that a marshaller/banksman I used when reversing etc. Another question to be asked during the investigation here.

My belief I that this more than likely did not happen.

Until these are completely removed there will always be be risk of further incidents.

Nikita81

25th Apr 2016, 15:12

Inability to manage fast growth is the downfall of that company.

notapilot15

25th Apr 2016, 16:24

Short term fix is to stop spending $2.7 Billion on PR and use that money to improve conditions for current workforce and to hire more.

Now that most of the world doesn't believe about PR fluff about subsidies, accounting, safety and working conditions... $2.7 Billion going down the drain. Put it to good use.

Kobus Dune

26th Apr 2016, 08:08

Land Hopper
You are such a valuable new attraction to us that we don’t you to leave our Pilot’s Club, which you did enter by bluffing the security guard. We will offer you a very nice permanent place in the air-conditioned entrance hall, between the stuffed tiger and the Constellation 1/25th model.
Let’s be perfectly clear, I have nothing against ground crew and assorted truck-drivers. Some of my best friends are ground staff. Actually, with my wife we went last year in holydays to Groundstaffistan, and we only found there charming and loving people – all of them wearing orange jackets, by the way … Camels and donkeys were also dressed with them. I just wouldn’t like my daughter to marry one of them (one of the guys, not the camel)
So you don’t like people at EGHQ above and including 7th floor ? considering that 2nd floor is Costa, one is for HR (accommodation and allowances, did you hear about it ?) that doesn’t leave many options.
The way you constantly try to bring the fault to our poor fellow pilot, which according to you might not have been wearing the Hi-Vis and therefore should be blamed, is simply disgusting. By the way and seriously now, I cannot remember of any pilot, not taking his yellow jacket for the walk-around, especially in Dubai (and please don’t say “flight deck”, it’s a testimony to your background - we are pilots)
And please remember, the victim is the pilot, not the driver. It’s not enough having those idiots trying to run over us everywhere in the Dubai traffic, they are also after us on the apron !

But you just wrote that you left "the Group" ? you will be missed.

Avid Aviator

26th Apr 2016, 10:47

So is he OK? Any serious injuries?
What happened to the "team" involved (driver & marshaller)?
Not good for anyone.

Land Hopper

26th Apr 2016, 11:12

Ah Kobus,

So nice to hear from you again.

I just love the way that you patronise by using your amazing sarcasm. I guess that brings truth to the saying that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

It truly does show yourself in your true colours in the constant diatribe and insults you continue to hurl at those not in the cockpit along with what seems to be your belief that anyone other than than pilot is just not worthy.

Fortunately, I am not here to throw insults or get further involved in your petty games.

If you read properly and try to understand my original post you will see that I was not apportioning blame to anyone, merely stating that the ramp is very hazardous area to be in. I was also just asking a very simple question that I am damn sure would get asked during the investigation process.

You may not have seen 'pilots' doing their walk round without wearing a hi visibilty vest but I have seen too many to mention. This is not a jibe at this group of people because there were and still probably are numbers of Engineers, Dispatchers and ground team that do the same. It isn't the definitive answer to this sad accident either.

It would normally be a formality to confirm the above through checking CCTV but experience of this tells me that there is a high probability of the cameras either not working or facing in the wrong direction.

The simple fact remains, in highly congested and busy areas everyone needs to keep their wits about them.

I repeat that until the particular pieces of equipment that were involved in this accident are removed from the operation in their entirety then I fear that there could well be more occurrences.

Yes , I did recently leave the group and have many reasons for doing so, including actually doing something about what frustrated and irritated me rather than just whining and bitching about conditions and treatment. However, I still have many close friends within the Group and I will always keep a close eye and ear out for what is going on.

Finally, has anybody heard an update on the individual hurt in this accident? It all seems to have gone quiet.

I have heard little but again, what I have heard has not been officially confirmed and as such I would not want to publish that here right now.

north flyer

26th Apr 2016, 14:19

At the end of the day, without the professional ethics of the ground teams, you wouldn't even leave the parking stand.

If I read your next argument before you state it (EK Dispatchers being in charge) pull the other one. They are nothing but a waste of space and company finance doing diddly squat and covering their behinds like the vast majority of EK minions. I could tell you stories that would make you leave your cosy chair and double check everything on the loadsheet they give you because we all know they do not reconcile what is loaded against the planned documents because they need to get an 'on time departure'

Notapilot, Nikita and the rest, why are you wasting your time with land Hopper?

In one line he is saying that he and his "team" have "professional ethics" and in the next he is telling you that, he and his team are letting planes that are not legal to fly, fly with their full knowledge, just to get an on-time departure, funny, how Land Hopper is trying to get us on his side by blaming the dispatchers.

Land Hopper, you can kiss my cozy couch sitting ass.

Evanelpus

26th Apr 2016, 14:56

In one line he is saying that he and his "team" have "professional ethics" and in the next he is telling you that, he and his team are letting planes that are not legal to fly, fly with their full knowledge, just to get an on-time departure, funny, how Land Hopper is trying to get us on his side by blaming the dispatchers.

Whoever he is, I for one am enjoying this thread;)

Now, can we stop bitching for five minutes. Does anyone know how the personnel involved in this incident are doing?

ekwhistleblower

27th Apr 2016, 03:15

I heard he went to RH, was checked and released but then subsequently had serious concussion symptoms (possible bleed) and was readmitted to hospital. Since then no info.

fatbus

27th Apr 2016, 09:45

So was it an EK pilot?

ekwhistleblower

27th Apr 2016, 10:57

Yep it was indeed!

FlightDetent

27th Apr 2016, 20:50

(not a sand-pitter) I got hit once. During walk around, past the outflow valve of the very light Airbus twin, walking half sideways, half backwards below the THS. The waste truck was reversing under the servicing panel. Last time I checked my 6 it was not there. I'm sure driver would say the same about me.

The experience instantly removed all my resentments to the (then new) rule of wearing the hi-viz.

wanabee777

28th Apr 2016, 00:32

Brings back unpleasant memories of Natasha Richardson's, (Liam Neeson's wife), accident while learning to ski in Quebec in 2009.

TwinJock

28th Apr 2016, 12:17

Its heart warming to see that those doing the walk-arounds are ACTUALLY looking at the aircraft like in a real pre-flight! I have given up years ago to do a daily inspection and count every rivet during my walk - I treat the pre-flight as a dangerous obstacle course, with a momentary glance at the aircraft at times, to satisfy those that might be watching......:O:O:O

Speedy recovery to our fellow driver.:ok:

Kobus Dune

28th Apr 2016, 21:05

fatbus

29th Apr 2016, 02:48

"Walk" around the nose wheel and say done. You're right , gone are the days of the last chance check in today's airline ops. When you say regulatory, "pre fight" being signed by engineers, so do you actually have to do it?

PositiveRate876

29th Apr 2016, 06:29

Do like me - pretend you do the walk-around (after all, who has ever found something nowadays, it's just a regulatory requirement) glance vaguely at the aircraft from time to time (who will check ?) but during the whole trip, look constantly left, right and backwards, towards all the directions from which the enemy will come to attack you. And by doing so, you will remain safe, available to perform your duties once you are back on the bridge.
My FO once found damage during a walkaround that resulted in the aircraft being grounded. Turns out the engineer didn't want to ground the aircraft himself, so he misrepresented the extent of the damage.

So pretending to do the walkaround is not the answer. Raising the pay to get more quality ground staff is.

ClassCbird

29th Apr 2016, 07:02

I am hoping that the above comments about "pretending" to do walk arounds are simply a wind up. If not, then I am shocked and appalled at some of the utter unprofessionalism that is coming from some. My husband, no matter how under valued he may feel by this company, would ALWAYS put the safety of his aircraft, crew and passengers above all else. He has found three SIGNIFICANT defects/damage when doing a walk around in the last 18months, that engineers/mechanics missed (bird ingested in engine, bald and punctured tyres, icing on wing at outstation). Besides...wouldn't you want to find an excuse not to take the aircraft??!!

AllDaysAreSchoolDays

29th Apr 2016, 10:42

Just read this thread in the hope of finding out if the said Pilot is OK?

Any News?

Sadly I saw a Marshaller get hit by a Tug driver many years ago, in a different part of the World. I know of a few colleagues that have walked into things during the walk around. One Captain avoiding the rain, ran into the Drain mast on an Aircraft type he was not used to, nearly blinding himself. I myself have tripped on Tow bars and Fuel Point covers when walking around looking up instead of down!

I have heard of people being hit by falling suitcases when walking too close to the baggage belts. There was one very unfortunate incident involving a Waste tank truck that a colleague got too close to. While physically unharmed the mess prevented him from continuing at work!

This is an industry wide threat, and an issue that will not go away all the time so many services are occurring around the Aircraft.

Guys, if you see any unsafe practises during your walk around, please report them via ASR. Please take your time walking around, if you rush you will likely not observe the dangers around you.

I, like other posters here, try to stay under the Aircraft where few Vehicles can be. Watch out for the Potable Water and Waste Trucks. Don't walk under Baggage belts. And occasionally look down not just up! It hurts when you walk into a tow bar or trip over the Refuelling truck ground wire!

I say all this because I care about my colleagues and I am very aware that many of the Guys Upgrading on the B777 have not been exposed to too many walk arounds. The Video Training only deals with the items on the Aircraft to look for not everything else coming at you.

Be safe... and please DO a thorough inspection of the Aircraft. 99% of the time you won't find anything, but I have found a number of issues here and at other Airlines that needed Engineering attention and could have had safety implications. (Fuel leak, Hydraulic leak, Bird Strikes, HST peeling, Static Wicks missing, Engine Cowling and other Panels not latched properly. Dents that may have arrived after the Engineer signed the Daily. Tyre problems... I could go on...) When you sign the Tech. Log you are accepting the Aircraft assuming you have checked it.

I too am unhappy with the general working conditions but we must not let Apathy creep in and affect our integrity and professionalism.

I would appreciate any further info on the pilots state of health...

All the best.

White Knight

29th Apr 2016, 12:06

I don't see unprofessionalism here

Pilots not doing a proper walkaround inspection are unprofessional! Probably the same pilots that brief for far too long too:eek:

I found a large bolt recently in a tyre that had been checked already by a LAME; that required a new tyre... Remember that it's not the LAMEs who have to land the thing when something goes wrong up there!

Do like me - pretend you do the walk-around (after all, who has ever found something nowadays, it's just a regulatory requirement) glance vaguely at the aircraft from time to time (who will check ?) but during the whole trip, look constantly left, right and backwards, towards all the directions from which the enemy will come to attack you. And by doing so, you will remain safe, available to perform your duties once you are back on the bridge.

I try these days, here on pprune, to restrain myself but kobus... You are a muppet:rolleyes::ugh::hmm:

Versace

29th Apr 2016, 20:55

Land Hopper:

Do yourself and MANY of us a favour and quit all the BS... Stop banging away on the keyboard like a "keyboard warrior" and start watching the ramp from the miserable office you work in. :ok:

Thanks and Bye.

ClassCbird

30th Apr 2016, 07:42

Just seen that some posts have been removed....By the by, I want to make my view point and position clear. I may be "just a pilot's wife", however i have the right to post on this forum. I have grown up around aviation and have worked in the airline industry for nearly as long as my husband.
I've read through this thread again. These issues are absolutely not exclusive to DXB. I have had a catering truck knock a rear right service door off one of it's hinges after the engineering inspection. I was on board at the time so it didn't go un noticed! The caterer simply ran off! And this happened in a so-called "first world" country! My point here is that accidents can happen between the engineer doing their inspection and the crew then doing a walk around. Other examples i have heard of are FOD damaging aircraft on ground due weather after an engineering inspection. To tie this in with the original meaning of this thread, i want to say that ground staff and pilots are not on opposite teams. You're all working to your limits and you are all fallible. Walk arounds are necessary and i hope you all take care of yourselves when doing them.

SMT Member

30th Apr 2016, 08:59

Raising the pay to get more quality ground staff is.

I work at a place where a ramp worker is paid EUR 30 per hour, plus extras. On a public holiday doing overtime, they're clocking close to 80 EUR per hour. They are the highest paid non-skilled workers in the land, and it makes no discernible difference safety wise to our neighbouring countries, where the same worker is paid the industry average.

I never quite understood how a walk-around inspection can reasonably be said to have fulfilled it's purpose, when it's always performed whilst ground handling is taking place. Surely the only correct time to complete this activity, would be after all ground handling has ceased, all equipment bar the jetty/stairs and push-back has been removed and nobody's driving any piece of equipment around inside the circle-of-safety.

But that'll add 5 minutes to the turn-around times, and we all know safety is only the number 1 priority until the bean-counters dictate otherwise.

Aluminium shuffler

30th Apr 2016, 11:28

Class Bird, my reply also went. It was in support of your point and criticism of your detractor, whom you are likely to have far more knowledge of flying than. Many partners learn quite a lot about how things work, or should work. My wife knows more about flying aircraft than the vast majority of airside ground staff I have met, let alone check-in agents.

ClassCbird

30th Apr 2016, 12:58

Thanks AS. I did see your post and all the others that were removed.

wanabee777

2nd May 2016, 13:50

I never quite understood how a walk-around inspection can reasonably be said to have fulfilled it's purpose, when it's always performed whilst ground handling is taking place. Surely the only correct time to complete this activity, would be after all ground handling has ceased, all equipment bar the jetty/stairs and push-back has been removed and nobody's driving any piece of equipment around inside the circle-of-safety.

But that'll add 5 minutes to the turn-around times, and we all know safety is only the number 1 priority until the bean-counters dictate otherwise.

That last sentence says it all!

Pointer

4th May 2016, 12:41

Pilot is recovering slowly.. with great difficulty though!

gulfmidnightflier

4th May 2016, 13:01

Heard two days ago that he unfortunately passed away from his injuries, condolences to his family. All the ramp staff involved have been dismissed and the driver of the vehicle is in jail.

Bring Back The Biff

4th May 2016, 13:50

Incorrect. The pilot in question has not passed away.

Please check your facts carefully if you are going to make assertions of this nature.

Evanelpus

4th May 2016, 14:01

Incorrect. The pilot in question has not passed away.

Please check your facts carefully if you are going to make assertions of this nature.

Normally, I ignore incorrect gen but gulfs post was incorrect information far and above forgiveness. I'm with Biff, when you post something like that you better make damn sure your info is 100% spot on.

Rant over:=

CaptainChipotle

4th May 2016, 15:44

Biff and Evan...

You seem to know what has happened. Why don't you shed some light on our colleague that is obviously dealing with troubled times. This incident could happen to any of us, and so far i've only seen thread drifts and a debate on how professional the walk around is.

This is a rumor network. Please search the definition of rumor. Pilots Professional Factual Network (PPFANE) is still under construction.

Back to the thread... a ground dispatcher told me the same as midnight flier. Of course, he probably only heard what somebody told him who relied on what somebody told him, and so on.

I now see post 60, which states he's recovering slowly (which would be a better scenario).

If you know what happened, spill it, because a lot of us don't know.

All the best to everyone involved and wishing my colleague a speedy recovery.

CC

Evanelpus

4th May 2016, 15:52

Biff and Evan...

You seem to know what has happened.

Captain: I've never claimed I knew what was happening to this poor individual so I can't imagine what makes you think I do, can't speak for Biff though.

The point I was trying to make (obviously badly) was that there is a difference between killing someone off and offering condolences to their family to saying that airline A is ordering Boeings when in fact they are ordering Airbus.

The most important thing is that the guy is making a recovery, albeit a slow one according to a PPRuNer.

Bring Back The Biff

5th May 2016, 15:34

Captain. Suffice to say that the pilot in question suffered injuries from which he is recovering slowly.

If I did have more information (which I don't), I'm not certain that the wider rumour network has any right to the gritty details.

Suffice to say that it's an unfortunate accident - and if nothing else we should be vigilant in an always high threat environment. Additionally, I would be fairly certain that the ground handling department will be reviewing their practices and standards to avoid any repeat.

PPFANE - brilliant! Will keep an eye out for that one...