PAS Advice

[Harikari]

Be grateful for some advice on PAS ROS after struggling to find conclusive answers in the various APs, JSPs and the 'finest' in handbrake house :confused:

Can you PVR before the 5yr ROS or is that waived on acceptance of PAS?

If you can PVR before the 5yr ROS, would the financial penalties be worse than just leaving as a regular at the 38/16/20/40 point?

I know the impacts are very individual and I still enjoy what I do but it's more about knowing how I could/what it would cost if this were to change! Are there any squadron leaders out there who have done it? If so, i'd be really grateful if you could PM me.

Thanks!

[Sandy Parts]

Been asked before so a search may give full details. The issue you will have is that many of the answers may be from history (near and ancient!)
When I accepted PAS, the deal was that leaving prior to 5 yrs ROS meant a pension related to non-PAS service. I'd still have got the PAS pay until date of departure.
I never intended taking that option, however, thanks to MRA4 cancellation - the RAF made me redundant prior to my 5 year ROS point. They treated this as same as PVR so I did end up losing out on pension. However, due to being on AFPS75 (another variable - which pension are you on) - I had my pension based on Specialist Aircrew Flt Lt rather than non-aircrew Flt Lt.
If you accept PAS, you accept the 5yrs ROS for joining the PAS pay structure.
If you leave early, the penalties will depend on your circumstances but you will lose out in pension for sure.
An advantage is that as you no longer get flying pay on PAS, when you PVR, it cannot be stopped.

[GipsyMagpie]

Remember that PAS only affects the pension you get at full retirement age (more or less). If you leave early the only thing that makes a big difference is promotion assuming you are on 75 scheme. For me getting picked or PAS at roughly same point meant promotion made me better off vs PAS until the age 47 point.

[Mightycrewseven]

Harikari

I'm SO2 on PAS. Prior to 2011, anyone on PAS could PVR within the RoS period and would generally (but not always) revert to CS pension. As this caused a number of significant headaches, the PVR rules changed in 2011: all those that accepted PAS from 2011 onwards waived the right to PVR (ET) inside the 5 yr RoS so you have to see your time out. It is in the JSP somewhere - I've had need to reference it before.....

That said, it only takes someone to challenge the system once and be successful :eek:

[JliderPilot]

I started on PAS mid 2010 and left after 3 yrs on pvr. My pension was exactly what the online calc estimated. I find it difficult to see how the RAF could make you serve the 5 yrs. well worth the challenge I think.

Direct entry Capt with Flybe on offer as well as BA and others so interesting times for manning 😬

[Harikari]

Gents

Thanks for the replies, searches had only revealed a lot of information about the scheme circa 2003 when it changed from SA to PAS, but I didn't know about the further changes in 2011.

Sandy Parts, sadly another example of the system trying to push you out on the cheap with regard to your redundancy being treated as a PVR - thank god i declined the option to transfer off of AFPS75 when I was a runt (no skill, just asked the Senior Junta what they would recommend and they threw it in the bin for me!)

5yr ROS seems a given, but could be challenged with the right representation. My only concern is would my gratuity/pension be worse if I partially completed, say 3 years, of my 5yr ROS compared to if I'd never taken the PAS offer and left at my normal option point?

Thank you all for your replies

[Could be the last?]

Reading this thread and similar wrt getting out whilst under the T&Cs of PAS, surely means that PAS is not doing what it is designed to do, or is it? If Manning want to keep selected individuals in (I assume that is the case) why not make the incentive to stay a more realistic proposition. E.g use a FRI, whereby the time bar means if an individual leaves, then they pay back the money and none of the extra earnings are attributed to their pension, or, a more intelligent incentiveisation scheme with staged payments for instance?

From the other perspective, if an individual has been offered PAS, and are now deliberating, then that itself is should be telling them something about their commitment for long-term service???

[Aynayda Pizaqvick]

I'd argue that PAS is probably working quite well for the RAF, even when the guys are leaving inside the 5 years... You don't get PAS until the point you would probably be out at your 38/16 point (or whatever most are on now) so they get an extra few years out of you with little extra investment (a couple of pay increments assuming the individual was on the top pay increment) and it doesn't cost them extra for pension.

Unless I'm missing something, that is MUCH cheaper than an FRI!

[Background Noise]

A CS Sqn Ldr going onto PAS will potentially have another 17 pay points available even if he goes in on top level CS pay. So it is still attractive for extended service.

My only concern is would my gratuity/pension be worse if I partially completed, say 3 years, of my 5yr ROS compared to if I'd never taken the PAS offer and left at my normal option point?

It shouldn't be any worse - even the original deal was that you would benefit by the same amount as if you had stayed on CS - and you would have had the additional pay over those 3 years. If you are not yet on top level pay band, PAS increments are a smidge bigger than CS. If you are already at top rate, then you open up further pay increases by going PAS.

The PAS pension benefits were easy to work out on AFPS05 but I am not familiar with the AFPS15 arrangements - although the principle of average earnings should produce a much better pension for those who continue to advance up the PAS pay points, more so given that it is all pensionable. You really need to join and consult the Forces Pension Society for pension questions. Manning don't know the answers and have been told not to speculate. JPAC, for me, was also completely useless.

You would also lose your 44 option by switching to PAS - which was an issue for those on AFPS75 as the only other leaving option was PVR, with it's resultant reduction in FP and reduced PVR pension rates.

[5 Forward 6 Back]

Harikari,

Send me a PM?

[Just This Once...]

I'm not sure how a CS sqn ldr would get 17 pay points. When I switched over it was at level 31 for a few weeks, before moving up to level 32.

[Background Noise]

Yes, you're right, that was a bit dull. 'Some' increments at least, depending on seniority and brevet.

[Just This Once...]

It does not take long before a sqn ldr marks time at L35 and it's not a big uplift in pay. The 'offer' will decay further with career averaging eroding the previous pension gain. In fact PAS seems to be dwindling in its attractiveness due to the cap at L30 for flt lts and the pension changes.