MFTS RW

[KPax]

I have heard several rumours over the last week that Airbus have won the contract to supply the rotary for MFTS RW. The fleet will consist of EC135 only, if true is this a good or bad thing ?

[Flugplatz]

Very good for those Service Pilots who want to go on to join NPAS when they leave!

Flug

[chopper2004]

Thought the Airbus offering included H15 as well or combo of H130/H135 or H130/H145 to include single engined training.

If what you have heard is true then can see we following the Germans, now the Us Army and Australians amongst others in such as Switzerland and Kiwis in taking the stude from single engined elementary / basic straight to multi engined trainer.

Laughingly the new platform may look the same colours as the ADF HATS trainer

https://www.airbushelicopters.com/website/en/press/Australian%20military’s%20new%20EC135%20T2+%20training%20hel icopter%20takes%20to%20air_1653.html

(photo courtesy of Airbus Helicopters)

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g209/longranger/longranger045/1st_hats_ec135_t2_c_airbus_helicopters_charles_abarr_2015_zp s5ppln7fb.jpg

Cheers

[Could be the last?]

What would be interesting is to see how the requirements for rear-crew training figured in the decision to select the 135? It looks like another ac that will have 50% of the crew operating on their knees or equally awkward position.

[GipsyMagpie]

NAO report into flying training (https://www.nao.org.uk/report/ministry-of-defence-training-new-pilots/)

The history of this makes interesting reading. The above often quoted report for starting MFTS but actually doesn't say any such thing. Indeed the paragraph on contractorisation says:


Some of the weaknesses evident in setting targets also show through in other initiatives. The Agency have pursued a variety of site rationalisation and contractorisation projects with mixed results. Weaknesses in specification of services and contract monitoring and enforcement have cost the Department output and money. And similar weaknesses in planning have meant that the implications of site rationalisation were not fully understood, with the result that fewer sites have been sold than planned, and some initially closed have had to be re-opened. Overall, however, contractorisation and rationalisation have contributed towards improved efficiency, if not on the scale originally envisaged.

Not a resounding endorsement of contractorisation.

The latest NAO report makes for a depressing read too. Fortunately the RW project is part of a mature process within the contractor.

NAO 2015 update (https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Military-Flying-Training-Summary.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwin3r3P9c7LAhWHtA8KHdLaDO4QFghdMBI&usg=AFQjCNGFlHaWXGKxzCHxkNWs_w25pF4K7A&sig2=OuWYZvT09VOzJtu7yZ7oCw)

On the subject of rear crew training and cabin height, name me a helicopter under 5 tonne which does have a standing cabin! Something heavier is not going to be cost effective for pilot training.

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

The fleet will consist of EC135 only, if true is this a good or bad thing ?


Unlikely to be true - not much scope for winch training in a 135?


Laughingly the new platform may look the same colours as the ADF HATS trainer


...so it will be the same colours as the existing Shawbury fleet then.

[chopper2004]

Hmm DL Helikopter 135 contracted to the Bundeswher, for the Marineflieger for multi engine training- does do winching exercise as this vid shows @1:31

Plus plenty of H135 airframes across Europe do winch rescue, hoist training etc etc with the likes of Austrian OAMTC, Aiut Alpin Dolomites , Bundespolizei , SAMU , Gendamarie

cheers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfFYNymAtvU

[KPax]

Regarding the post about single engine training. With the Gazelle being the only single engine rotary left in the British Armed Forces do we need a single engine trainer. By doing away with this they can cut the need for Engine Oof Landings (EOL's) which seem to take up a lot of time and effort.

[Aynayda Pizaqvick]

Gazelle is also the only one that still has skids, so why aren't we getting something with wheels? And you will still have to learn EOLs to prepare frontline crews for mandatory emergency currencies which require EOLs, such as double/triple engine failures, tail rotor problems, transmission failures...

[GipsyMagpie]

Gazelle is also the only one that still has skids, so why aren't we getting something with wheels? And you will still have to learn EOLs to prepare frontline crews for mandatory emergency currencies which require EOLs, such as double/triple engine failures, tail rotor problems, transmission failures...

Agree on the skids front but EOL can be done in the sim which is of course how front line types practice it. Having gone back to real EOL after being of heavy heli for 9 years it really is an eye opener. But using the latest training design terminology, (Difficulty, importance, frequency) and EOL is quite important and difficult but so infrequently required, the training requirement is going to put in the sim.

[teeteringhead]

But there is nothing like the confidence builder of a "real" EOL. A great pity IMHO that when we (the RAF) changed from Whirlwind to Gaz on basic we stopped doing solo stude EOLs ...... :(

[Shackman]

Too true - I learnt more in those 30mins solo, both in confidence and incident report filling! However, I will also say the ability to carry out an EOL in the real world will always help if it comes to the real thing in a twin (or triple) when the only practice has been done in a simulator - again speaking after having a double engine failure.

[DunWinching]

Agree on the skids front but EOL can be done in the sim which is of course how front line types practice it. Having gone back to real EOL after being of heavy heli for 9 years it really is an eye opener. But using the latest training design terminology, (Difficulty, importance, frequency) and EOL is quite important and difficult but so infrequently required, the training requirement is going to put in the sim.
A sound plan only spoilt by Ascent not planning on having a full motion sim, but using fixed Level B FTDs instead. (so rumour has it)

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

Hmm DL Helikopter 135 contracted to the Bundeswher, for the Marineflieger for multi engine training- does do winching exercise as this vid shows @1:31

Plus plenty of H135 airframes across Europe do winch rescue, hoist training etc etc with the likes of Austrian OAMTC, Aiut Alpin Dolomites , Bundespolizei , SAMU , Gendamarie


Interesting. How many POB typically, and what is single engine performance like at msl?

[chopper2004]

Heya Torque

020
Characteristics
PASSENGER TRANSPORTATION
Police / Utility / Offshore
VIP
Hermes
Pilots
Passengers
Pilots
Passengers
Pilots
Passengers
1
6/7
1
5/6
1 5
2
5/6
2
4/5
2 4
EMS / Disaster Management
Pilots
Patients
Crew
1 1
up to 4
1 2
up to 3
2 1
up to 3
2 2
up to 2
DIMENSIONS
Length (rotor rotating)
12.26 m
40.2 ft
Fuselage length
10.20 m
33.5 ft
Height
3.51 m
11.5 ft
Width (without blades)
3.16 m
10.4 ft
Main rotor diameter
10.40 m
34.1 ft
Main rotor ground clearance
2.4 m
7.9 ft
WEIGHT
Maximum takeoff weight
6,570 lb
2,980 kg
Empty weight, standard configuration
3,267 lb
1,482 kg
Useful load, standard configuration
3,126 lb
1,418 kg
Maximum cargo-sling load
2,646 lb
1,200 kg
Standard fuel capacity
1,235 lb
560 kg
ENGINE
2 turboshaft engines
Turbomeca Arrius 2B2
plus
or
Pratt & Whitney PW206B3
Cat. A VTOL, SL
2,980 kg / 6,570 lb
ALT limited for Cat. A operations
Clear heliport
12,000 ft DA or PA / 3,655 m DA or PA
Restricted or elevated heliport 8,000 ft DA or PA / 2,435 m DA or PA
AT SL, ISA, Max. gross weight
Maximum speed (VNE)
140 kts
259 km/h
Fast cruise speed
136 kts
252 km/h
OEI Rate of climb (65KIAS), MCP
400 ft/min
2 m/s
Hover ceiling IGE ISA +20
13,300 ft
4,054 m
Hover ceiling OGE ISA +20
8,200 ft
2,499 m
Maximum range at recommended cruise speed
(without fuel reserve)
330 NM
611 km
OPERATION LIMITATIONS
Maximum operating altitude
20,000 ft
6,095 m
Minimum temperature
-31°F
- 35°C
Maximum temperature
limited to + 50°C / 122°F
ISA + 39°C / 102.2°F

At the end of the day if it has been chosen for Ascent then good on the next gen of RW crews for across our armed forces. The German Bundeswehr and Swiss Air Force. use it as a trainer though the German system is predominantly sims (both PC and proper 4 x axis ) before the successful candidate goes onto 135.

cheers

[EESDL]

Uni-Fly seem happy with the machine for their Wind Farm support where winching is a regular part of the task

[Boessie]

But can the H135 do winch training with 6 POB (2 pilots, 2 rear-crew instructors and 2 rear-crew students) with at least two of them sitting side by side in the door frame?

[Thomas coupling]

When does tri service training for this aircraft start @ Shawbury both real a/c and simulators?

[DunWinching]

01 April 2018 rings a bell. That is 21ST anniversary of DHFS.

[jayteeto]

EESDL, they are stripped bare for that role, the crew have max weight limits as well........... I can't meet the weight

[Wander00]

Eerm, Centenary of the RAF too

[DunWinching]

Eerm, Centenary of the RAF too
A very good point, I will try harder...

[Old-Duffer]

Do they still do deliberately induced vortex ring during rotary wing training?

It was alarming enough in the front but in the back of a Whirlwind, you learn that adrenalin is indeed coloured brown.

Only time I recall a parachute being mandated in a helicopter!

Old Duffer

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

they are stripped bare for that role, the crew have max weight limits as well


Skinny naked people on the winch...wouldn't be the first time :oh:

[chopper2004]

Received press release confirming Airbus Helicopters has been selected to provide H135 and H145 from 2018 onwards

Airbus Helicopters in the UK has been selected by Ascent
as the Aircraft Service Provider for the UK’s Military Flying Training System (
UKMFTS)
. The contract, worth £500 million over 17 years, will see Airbus Helicopters
deliver aircraft and an integrated support solution over the course of
18 months, ready to start training in April 2018.This will involve the manufacture of aircraft in addition to developing the support infrastructure and training initial crews and maintenance personnel

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g209/longranger/longranger086/H135_SN2001_AV1_20160316_View_02_copy%20Copyright%20Airbus%2 0Helicopters_zpskb3nz3bi.jpg

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g209/longranger/longranger086/H145_20111_AV1_20160316_View_03_copy%20Copyright%20Airbus%20 Helicopters_zps8lzjuvaw.jpg

[JFZ90]

Are these Helos 100% made in France/Germany with zero UK content?

Is this bad news for Agusta Westland, or just a minor blip?

The Defence Industrial Strategy really was killed off, wasn't it?