2016 Pay Award [Archive]

Door Slider

8th Mar 2016, 14:04

If anyone fancies a depressing read:

http://https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/505928/53949_Armed_Forces_Pay_Review_2016_Accessible.pdf (http://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/505928/53949_Armed_Forces_Pay_Review_2016_Accessible.pdf)

Wander00

8th Mar 2016, 15:08

"Award" is a bit of misnomer surely

airborne_artist

8th Mar 2016, 16:53

I work for a very large UK plc. In sorting out and removing a number of anomalies (eg same grade, different start date = different levels of overtime premium, for example) my grade was awarded a 2.8% increment, but at the same time I've lost half that amount in premiums now removed for early/late working, so about 1.4% net.

Yet the guys/gals who work for me (and don't start early/finish late as often (if ever) have had 3.1%.

The grass isn't any greener outside :\

Ken Scott

8th Mar 2016, 16:59

The AFPRB can recommend whatever they like but we'll still only get the 1% that the gov has said the public sector will get.

Melchett01

8th Mar 2016, 17:08

Before I waste half an hour of my life reading this, is it in any way substantially different from the following:

Pay & allowances up 1%, charges up 3%
Still broadly equivalent reward with that on offer in civilian life
Recognise it's a tough world out there, uncertainty, long hours, lost leave families hacked off, but still believe 1% is the right increase.
Recognise that there are problems in policy X,Y & Z, glad to hear the MOD is looking into it, look forward to reading the results of their findings.

PPRuNeUser0211

8th Mar 2016, 17:13

Melch,

The only thing you're missing is that the PAYD core meal 'has not, for some years, been providing adequate levels of nutrition to personnel'. Net result: Add VAT to core meal and make everyone pay more!

devonianflyer

8th Mar 2016, 17:20

RRP (Flying)

3.25. We were expecting a full review of RRP (Flying) (RRP(F)) for this Report. RRP(F) is paid
to pilots and some aircrew in all three Services in recognition of the competition for this cadre from external employers. It is paid at levels that vary by rank and length of service as set out in Appendix 2.

3.26. Rather than a review with proposals for changes, MOD submitted an information note describing the position. While this painted a fairly bleak picture on retention, particularly for pilots, it con rmed that the review had been postponed by a year to allow it to be carried out in the light of the 2015 SDSR and following the introduction of the NEM pay structure. The information note concluded that the majority of aircrew cadres were broadly in staf ng balance but that there were a number of serious concerns in some areas including the capacity of the training pipeline.

3.27. While we understand some of the arguments for why it was not appropriate to undertake the review prior to the SDSR, the situation would appear to need short term action
both on retention of existing personnel and recruitment to meet future requirements. Following publication of the SDSR and having clarity on NEM Pay, we urge MOD to consider what might be required and make proposals as soon as possible. We are content to consider these in advance of next round if that would be helpful.

So it looks like someone has noticed there is a retention problem and an issue with the pipeline. Now if only that someone was actually inside the MOD and not an 'independent' outsider.

Ohh well, the 'short-term' action should be interesting to see if it appears...

Hangarshuffle

8th Mar 2016, 17:59

1% isn't a good pay rise and I genuinely feel concern for all those in receipt of that. However it has to be pointed out this isn't a good time for many ordinary workers in the UK. Steel has been decimated with jobs and livelihoods lost forever - the industry rapidly becoming untenable to even survive.
Offshore oil and gas also on a now pretty major downturn with jobs shed and wages slashed for many (5 to 25% in some places).
1% at least a move in at least the right direction...
Bound and blindfolded and prepared to be shot I am for saying that, but there it is. The UK in 2016.

airborne_artist

8th Mar 2016, 18:00

2.57 - Good to see that HMRC can't be bothered with Reservists' tax issues when mobilised. Joined-up government isn't very joined up yet :D

skydiver69

8th Mar 2016, 18:42

MSOCS

8th Mar 2016, 18:44

Hangarshuffle,

I'm not really bothered about the private sector and their perf-related pay and bonuses etc...it is widely accepted that average public sector pay underperforms the private sector pretty consistently.

Oil and Gas on the downturn. That's a desperate shame. Those folks raking in the big bucks for years; milking the petroleum cash cow dry... it's awful that things aren't as good now, truly it is. My heart bleeds. Was the boon really going to last forever? No. A glut of oil now will turn into a shortage later on and we'll all be paying through the nose for petrol and diesel again. Then the good times will roll but the public sector will still have their 1% pa.

Market forces predominantly drive the private sector; the same cannot be said for the public sector.

downsizer

8th Mar 2016, 19:05

Has NI been increased for armed forces personnel as has happened with other people who are contracted out of SERPS and have final salary or CARE pensions?

Yes it has.......

Chinny Crewman

8th Mar 2016, 19:31

I'm not really bothered about the private sector ....

Sadly the private sector and the Great British public are not really bothered about the military now Afghan is over. No votes in defence as Hammond said before the last election.

Suck it up or get out is the sad reality.

Melchett01

8th Mar 2016, 19:39

Has NI been increased for armed forces personnel as has happened with other people who are contracted out of SERPS and have final salary or CARE pensions? If it has then the 1% will be cancelled out by the NI increase.

Yep, I saw something about it a while back. So something else to look forward to in April - actually I wonder what the chances are of individuals take home pay actually going down because of increases to charges, NI etc set against yet another 1% rise? No doubt it'll be trumpeted with much fanfare as an above inflation rise, carefully forgetting the Govt intent is for inflation to actually be double the rise along with all the years when it was significantly below inflation.

The Old Fat One

8th Mar 2016, 21:53

If the cap fits...

Having been 27 years in the military and now 13 years in the commercial world I despair of this polarised blinkered thinking.

I'm not really bothered about the private sector and their perf-related pay and bonuses etc...it is widely accepted that average public sector pay underperforms the private sector pretty consistently.

What total arse. Public sector pensions are light years ahead of anything in the private sector and have been for a very long time. Public sector pay measures up very well against vast swathes of the private sector where millions of jobs are zero hours, minimum pay (retail, agriculture, care etc) with no pension, minimum time off and **** all fringe benefits, like medical, dental, sport etc.

If you don't think your pay, pension and perks are not good enough, get out and try the commercial world. Don't expect too much of the moral persuasive leadership though. In this world it's more a case of...

"show me the numbers"..."not good enough"..."**** off".

Suck it up or get out is the sad reality.

+1

Stuff

9th Mar 2016, 10:35

The AFPRB can recommend whatever they like but we'll still only get the 1% that the gov has said the public sector will get.

Are you sure about that? Didn't a previous head of AFPRB resign over this exact point.

As I understand it the AFPRB can only recommend an award within the range that Govt has told them is affordable. If it were truly independant it could recommend, say 6% and then have the Govt cap it at 1%. Since this would make the Govt look bad they aren't allowed to do this.

Edit: It wasn't a resignation after all. It was Prof Alasdair Smith in 2013 that I was thinking of. He was fired for daring to suggest a 1.5% rise when Govt had told him 1% was the limit.

Top Bunk Tester

9th Mar 2016, 10:45

Although no longer serving I do feel for my former colleagues during this period of austerity measures. As an earlier poster quite succinctly put it "Joe Public soon forgets when there is no percieved 'war' going on"

However I have another theory and it's possible that these miserly pay rises are nothing to do with cost cutting at all. In a survey of JPA & 25 Handbrake House's it was found that the JPA system and the majority of scribbly's could only just manage to work out a 1% pay rise and any numbers larger than that crashed JPA and caused a number of Scribbly heads to fall off and roll around the floor in Gen Office. :}

ShyTorque

9th Mar 2016, 11:41

The grass isn't any greener outside :\

So true. At least the armed forces do have an annual review! I work in the private sector and I've had only two measly pay rises (well below the relevant inflation rates) in ten years.

Willard Whyte

9th Mar 2016, 14:20

Greener for me, albeit with lower basic pay. Relatively stress free job though. Last few years were 2% ('16), 2%, 2.7%, 3.2%.

Our union has just rejected a 27% pay rise* - although significant changes to Ts & Cs were involved.

* Offered by the company, rejected by the union, company offered to ballot members, union refused!

jayteeto

9th Mar 2016, 17:55

The civil world has pros and cons, as does the Mil. You have to decide for yourself whether 1% is good or bad depending on your circumstances.
I left as a Sqn Ldr pilot in 2004, my current Air Ambulance pilot wage plus extras for training new staff is only JUST reaching my military salary level. I pay optical/dental/prescriptions and have less benefits. Job security? None.
I do have medical insurance and a good loss of licence cover.
At night, I shut the door and go home with no extra duties, I see my family 350 days a year. That is worth a million pounds to me personally.

You ARE STILL well paid, it's just not as fabulous as it was.

Suck it up or leave. It's good out here, buts it's good in there as well

Rotate too late

9th Mar 2016, 18:17

People are re enlisting, that should tell you something about the outside at the minute, so, unfortunately you guys are not in a particularly strong position to argue that there will be the "mass exodus" that never comes (mores the pity).
That said, as I've posted before, all my colleagues that have left are employed, save one, and that was not a real surprise, and ALL are enjoying a decent pay jump and/or an absolutely smashing work/life balance. As has been stated, worth a bloody fortune on its own!

JEMster

9th Mar 2016, 19:28

Are you sure about that? Didn't a previous head of AFPRB resign over this exact point.

As I understand it the AFPRB can only recommend an award within the range that Govt has told them is affordable. If it were truly independant it could recommend, say 6% and then have the Govt cap it at 1%. Since this would make the Govt look bad they aren't allowed to do this.

Edit: It wasn't a resignation after all. It was Prof Alasdair Smith in 2013 that I was thinking of. He was fired for daring to suggest a 1.5% rise when Govt had told him 1% was the limit.

Smith not sacked or resigned. Appointment not extended for second term by coalition Govt, something they did for pretty much all incumbent independent body Chiefs appointed by the last Labour Govt.

Selatar

9th Mar 2016, 20:28

The NI hike will eat the 1% pay increase and more for some people. About £350 per annum if your on 30k and increasing accordingly.... In fairness it's the whole public sector getting shafted with NI next month....

Mightycrewseven

11th Mar 2016, 09:33

1% Pay rise = +£388 for the year for me. Changes to NI = me paying an additional £338 this year. Therefore a NET GAIN of £50 on my pay rise :ok:

Should cover cost of living inflation.........:uhoh:

Door Slider

11th Mar 2016, 15:20

Don't forget that the PAYE rates increase on 1 Apr 16. The tax free allowance is increasing from £10,000 to £10,600 and the higher rate also has a modest increase, you will therefore pay less income tax.

Melchett01

11th Mar 2016, 16:56

Also don't forget it's the Budget next week. Hot on the heels of the Chancellor's pension climb down, there are talks of the annual allowance bring cut further from £40,000 to £25,000, or even as low as £10,000 to make up for retaining tax relief.

If that happened, I can see senior flt lts and possibly some of the more senior NCOs & WOs incurring a tax charge. Best you don't spend any of your increase just yet ... just in case

Avtur

11th Mar 2016, 18:28

I can see senior flt lts and possibly some of the more senior NCOs & WOs...

I think you will find that senior WO/MACR get paid more than the most senior Flt Lt.

Melchett01

11th Mar 2016, 18:59

I think you will find that senior WO/MACR get paid more than the most senior Flt Lt.

Correct, and if you're on PAS, then Sgt aircrew can quite easily find themselves on the equivalent of ground branch sqn ldr pay. However, I was referring more generally to the larger cohort of non-PAS types, where I suspect anyone OR7-9 and senior OF2 could well find themselves a 'pension fat cat' if the stories doing the rounds of the financial press are correct.

Actually, worst case, it could be a perfect storm that tips people over the edge: potential pay down banding, real terms pay cut once increased charges & NI kick in and a pension tax charge due to the annual allowance being slashed, not to mention the very dangerous precedent of pensions being taxed twice in certain circumstances - on the way in and out - for very ordinary folk just doing their best to get on in life. Gideon's doing a damned good job of ensuring he never makes PM with this sort of short term thinking.

spekesoftly

11th Mar 2016, 19:51

Don't forget that the PAYE rates increase on 1 Apr 16. The tax free allowance is increasing from £10,000 to £10,600 ....... Those two figures are from the previous and current tax years. On the 6th April 2016 the Tax Free Personal Allowance increases from £10,600 to £11,000 (tax year 2016 - 2017).

Chillwinston1

11th Mar 2016, 20:00

I think you will find that senior WO/MACR get paid more than the most senior Flt Lt.

I'm a bit confused by this. As this is an aircrew forum, can I assume you are talking about aircrew? So a senior Flt Lt (31-32 years old) earns £46,500 and with top rate flying pay (not been around long enough for enhanced) earns £60-61000. A top rate WO (age....?) earns £48,000 and about half the flying pay? (Unless I'm wrong?) I might have made a mistake here and got confused with pilots/ crewmen/AAC pilots but the comparison is a bit silly as doesn't come close to comparing like for like. Guys that get off the ground get classed as aircrew but there is a huge difference within that grouping. I once heard an arguement (lasted about 30 seconds) that crewmen should get the same flying pay as a pilot. Ridiculous!

Willard Whyte

11th Mar 2016, 20:13

It's not an aircrew forum.

From the forum descriptor: Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Chillwinston1

11th Mar 2016, 20:40

You are exactly right! My apologies! I only check this on my phone and I click 'aircrew forums' and then 'military aviation' which I thought was a military aircrew forum! My mistake! WW your post makes sense and is why I was confused. I thought the suggestion was that a senior pilot/crewmen WO would get more than a senior pilot Flt Lt which is barking. I stand corrected

Tiger_mate

11th Mar 2016, 21:29

.the suggestion was that a senior pilot/crewmen WO would get more than a senior pilot Flt Lt which is barking.

I was a 'senior' PAS MACr and I got paid more than a senior (none PAS) Flt Lt. Worth every penny mind. .....and now reap the final salary pension based upon the same. Hopefully I will bank the pension for more years than the 37.1 that it took me to earn it.

Ken Scott

11th Mar 2016, 22:56

I think you will find that WO/MACR get paid more than the most senior Flt Lt.

According to the AFPRB document linked in the first post, MACR at top rate (level 20) gets £63441 at current rates, whilst a Level 9 Flt Lt gets £46660 basic plus Enhanced Rate of RRP (flying pay) of £46.04/ day so £16804 = £63464 so £23 more.

Level 20 MACR will get more than a Flt Lt on higher rate of RRP (£60935) but at the highest levels the Flt Lt does get paid a tiny bit more although it's not really comparing like with like - Flt Lt PAS which is comparable gets up to £74811 at L 30 or even £80328 if he's on reserve rates to L 35.

So there is a reward for working harder at school!