Jet A1 Highway Bowser Wanted

[Jettiejock]

Does anybody have a Jet A1 bowser no longer required? It needs to be bunded, a maximum of 1000 litres total capacity and have a stainless steel or lined inner tank.I can upgrade filters, hose etc.

[stringfellow]

Hi there I know you said 1000l but I have a stunning fuel proof 2000 litre pumped barely half a tank in its life been indoors all its life. I'm ready to sell and am looking for serious offers around 6k plus vat

[Jettiejock]

Thanks but I was trying to avoid ADR by going for 1000 litres or less.

[Hughes500]

ADR is only a 5 day course :yuk:

[evil7]

@ jettiejock

Even if you use a 2000 Ltr bowser you can avoid ADR if you only fill it with 999 Ltr:ok:(999,999.... because with 1000 you need ADR :})

And if your license allows you the weight of the car / truck and trailer combination, of course.

[Jettiejock]

My understanding is that the need for ADR goes by actual capacity of the tank not the amount actually in it.

[Glevum]

If your tank is over 1000l then you are in scope if it has any fuel in it, if I remember correctly.

Have you considered using an IBC and separate pump?

[stringfellow]

What's all this adr malarkey?? And in reality who is going to check?? Jobs for the boys all this beaurocracy.

[chopjock]

Diesel and gas oil
Diesel and gas oil (UN 1202) are in scope up to flash point 100 deg C. Diesel/fuel oil is in TC 3, so up to 1000 litres may be carried in packages without application of much of the regulations (small load exemption).

Authorisation No 1 PDF link to external website allows certain bowsers (carrying UN 1202 diesel /gas oil only) to be treated as if they are IBCs. The main conditions are

The bowser was made before 10th May 2004
The tank must not be "permanently fixed to a motor vehicle or trailer".
Maximum capacity 3000 litres
Designed for mechanical handling
It shall remain "safe and suitable"
The significance of this is that the bowser can be treated as a package and labelled accordingly, and that if it does not carry more than 1000 litres the small load exemptions apply.


Carriage of Dangerous Goods - How is a bowser defined for the purposes of the regulations and what exemptions apply? (http://www.hse.gov.uk/cdg/manual/commonproblems/bowsers.htm)
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20090511012431/http://www.dft.gov.uk/426155/425450/300/auth1rev.pdf

[Hughes500]

Tank size is important, does not matter how much you carry. For instance if the 2000 litre tank is empty you are not allowed to tow it without an ADR licence unless the tank has a certificate of cleaning to say it is empty ! So basically no ADR licence you can only tow 999 litres of Jet A1 or 333 litres of Avgas
The licence lasts 5 years before you have to do a renewal

[Rwy in Sight]

999 litres of Jet A1 or 333 litres of Avgas

Why Avgas is different and just only 333 litres and not 999.9?

Plus in a previous life I was selling commercial vehicles to be transformed in road tankers. So I like to draw your attention to the fact there are ADR for the truck and the driver. The exemption is valid for the tanker but not for the driver.

[chopjock]

Torque
Don't think it's much help if that only applies to UN 1202.

If you read the second link I provided, paragraph 2..

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20090511012431/http://www.dft.gov.uk/426155/425450/300/auth1rev.pdf

It includes heating oil too, which is same as Jet A1.

[ericferret]

R.I.S

I am sure the difference is volatility. On a good day a large pool of Jet A will just sit and smell, AVGAS will be a serious danger. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near a 300 litre spillage. I once walked into a mist spray of JetA without thinking to turn off a petrol driven pump after a hose split. If that had been AVGAS I would be toast!!!!!

[Self loading bear]

Stringfellow,
I am a bit dissapointed in your reaction. Everybody confirms to all procedures and regulations when it comes to helicopter safety. When somebody apprently deviates he is grilled on pprune. When it comes to road safety this does no longer applies?

Rwy
I think the ADR requirements are 3-way:
1)The truck. When beyond the small load exemption the truck needs to be full ADR compliant. The bowser/IBC for which Chopjock might have found an exemption might be a solution. But beware you should still find some confirmation that Jet A1 UN1863 is allowed under the same exemption. Although the properties are almost the same as heating oil the alternative allowed UN numbers are not stated in Chopjocks link.Under small load exemptions there are some requirements for fire extinghuishers etc.

2)The load. The fuel may be transported under small load exemptions if Jet A1 is under 1000 litres,
or under 333 litres AvGas. The difference is in the flash point of the fuel. The smal load exemptions only have 3 classes: Max 20; max 333 and max 1000. AvGas happens to be in the middle category. So if the 3000 litre bowser might be allowed as IBC it should be possible to transport 999 litres under small load exemptions.

3) Driver, when under small loads exemption I believe there are no extra requirements. At least not for proffessional truck drivers. For private car drivers better check this.

Caution my knowledge is Dutch based any deviations towards UK ADR regulation are beyond my limited wisdom.

Cheers SLB

[chopjock]

Yes, heating oil under UN1202.
Jet A1 is listed under UN1863, with a flash point of >38°, not exactly between the 60° and 100° mentioned in your link.

Jet A1 and Heating oil (Kero) have a similar flashpoint, as we all know.

[Jettiejock]

There seems to be confusion here. I believe that to avoid the full ADR regs a Jet A1 bowser needs to have a capacity of no more than 1000 litres. But some of you good people have said less it needs to be less than 1000. So, will a 1000 litre bowser require ADR to drive it or does it have to be over 1000 litres in capacity?

[evil7]

It´s nothing to do with how many Liters, really.

Without ADR you are allowed to transport Dg with a maximum of 999 Points.

Jet A1 1 point per Liter - AvGas 3 points per Liter. That´s why Jet 999 Liters allowed - AvGas 333 Liters allowed.

And in Europe you can use a bowser that has more capacity as long as you are certified to drive the car-trailer / truck combination with your driving license.

[Glevum]

Jettiejock,

I would speak to the HSE directly about your questions. The ADR regs are slightly different in Europe to the UK.

Have a look at Carriage of Dangerous Goods on the HSE website

Carriage of Dangerous Goods - How is a bowser defined for the purposes of the regulations and what exemptions apply? (http://www.hse.gov.uk/cdg/manual/commonproblems/bowsers.htm)

[3Q Coupled]

Hi there I know you said 1000l but I have a stunning fuel proof 2000 litre pumped barely half a tank in its life been indoors all its life. I'm ready to sell and am looking for serious offers around 6k plus vat

I would like to purchase your bowser if still available?

[stringfellow]

Hi there I note you are from Belfast, I bought it from a chap in northern Ireland who had it set up on avgas for a sweizer 300, it pumped 300l odd litres then he sold it to me. Its been indoors since. Il send you a pm.

[stringfellow]

I cant seem to send a pm. If you send me an email at [email protected] il send you details. im in south Cumbria. The bowser has not been used as I now have a 10.000 l fixed tank.

[3Q Coupled]

Hi Stringfellow,

I would be delighted to have a look at your bowser for sale?

Regards,

3Q

[FLY 7]

I'm also looking for a Jet A-1 Highway Bowser (sub-1000 litres).

Found exactly what I wanted with all the right options - brand new, water and particulate filters, double skinned, fast flow, 12m hose, etc, etc.

Single axle version of this:
Abbi 10ART Transportable Fuel Storage Tank | Western Global UK (http://www.western-global.com/en-gb/products/abbi-deluxe-10art/)

All ready to go, then told it's not approved for Jet A-1 - just red or white Diesel :bored:

Is there are distinction for private use? Any recommendations?

[Hughes500]

Fly 7

What they mean is that it doesn't meet the CAA 's recommendations. There is nothing special about Jet it is after all kerosene ! So no problem transporting it in th at bowser !

[FLY 7]

Excellent.

So, a properly maintained Diesel bowser, with the correct filters and maintenance, should be fine for Jet A-1?

[Hughes500]

there is no difference really !

[chopjock]

Abbi 10ART Transportable Fuel Storage Tank | Western Global UK

Ha Ha don't you just hate it when they do not advertise the price!:ugh:
Must be too embarrassed.

[FLY 7]

Price is £2,600, plus all the options - c,£3,600.

Nice quality and all brand new. just want to be satisfied using Jet in a Diesel bowser isn't an issue.

[Hughes500]

well i have used and got 5 highway bowsers for both jet and avgas. I have a 1000 litre one that has a polyprop liner all I did was put a filter on it (aviation one) have put 25000 litres for it and the heli is still going ! Asked th manufacturer what the difference was apart from £2500 extra in price, answer bonding cable and a filter (bonding reel about £200 and a filter bowl and filter about £300) seems to me profiteering !

[stringfellow]

Hi all an update. I sold my lovely bowser to a cracking chap from northern Ireland. The regs he told me about gave me an anxiety attack. I cannot possibly see why a nice clean diesel highway bowser wont do your job. I have one for diggers etc cleaned it out last year it was spotless.

[Jettiejock]

It is tempting to go for the cheaper bowser option. But a fuel company told me a few weeks ago that they are reluctant to deliver Jet A1 into a plastic tank and the CAA standards recommend stainless or aluminium tanks. It is a nightmare since some of us keep Kerosene in plastic tanks to heat our homes without a problem.

[Silage27]

Hi. Im new to this forum so apologise if its not appropriate. But does anyone know of a tidy fuel proof or similar make road towable fuel bowser. I need around 2,000 to 3,000 litres suitable for Jet A1 with a high output diesel engine preferred. I am in the Midlands (UK).
Thanks

[Hughes500]

Silage

be careful here as the law changed in May this year ! Basically bowser's were really IBC's ie a tank bolted to the trailer. This meant you didn't have to MOT the trailer every year ! Now all IBC's ( carrying flammable liquid ) have to be twinned skinned, which take out loads of the old ones.
2000 litres is as big as you can go using a normal 4 wheel drive capable of pulling a 3.5 ton trailer otherwise you will need a linked braking system !
As your bowser will be over 1000 litres you will need an ADR licence to pull it

[Silage27]

Thanks. We have already done the full ADR course in preparation but certainly appreciate the comments.

[pants on fire...]

It is tempting to go for the cheaper bowser option. But a fuel company told me a few weeks ago that they are reluctant to deliver Jet A1 into a plastic tank and the CAA standards recommend stainless or aluminium tanks. It is a nightmare since some of us keep Kerosene in plastic tanks to heat our homes without a problem.

Hopefully he never gets asked to refuel an Airbus H125 (Squirrel, Ecuriel, Astar)... ;)