Air Cadets RAFVRT - Officer Selection Course

[sigmet]

Good morning

I'm a civilian insructor with the local Air Cadets and have been asked early on in my career if I'd like to be nominated for a Commission. At short notice, the Sqd Ldr from Wing is coming down on Monday to 'interview' me before we move on to the next step. I wonder if anyone has any advice / guidance / wisdom?

I notice a similar thread from some years ago; Im asking in case views have changed or the organisation has moved on..

Thanks in advance

sigmet

[lightbluefootprint]

I was lucky enough to do the whole CI/AWO/VRT trip with the ACO and if you appear to be showing a bit more interest than the average staff member you'll inevitably be asked to put the blue suit on.

Top things to consider. Uniformed service with the ACO is time consuming - there is far more expectation that you will regularly give up your spare time and there will be a minimum hours per month requirement although in my experience that was scarcely monitored but used as a tool to weed out people whose heart wasn't really in it to free up a uniformed slot on a unit.

Next thing is do you have what it takes? Do you have the appearance and bearing that will make you a credible member of the RAFVR(T)? Many on here may tell you about the absolute nightmares of VRT Officers who conduct themselves like arses when on station with an undeserved sense of entitlement. The WSO interview is just the first step, and it is by no means a foregone conclusion that because you are in the process that you will ultimately be successful.

Have you considered going the SNCO route first? This is what I did, so I got to have several years learning to be a leader in a "safe" environment before I went commission. That experience was invaluable because as a Sqn Cdr I had some very real credibility in the eyes of the teams that I helped to develop because I could give sound advice having done it all myself. Those experiences certainly contributed to the GCGI qualification I got before leaving a few years ago.

My advice is to consider what you want to do and don't let WHQ decide for you. They have their own needs to fulfill and nowadays one of those is the diminishing number of Officers. That's their problem, don't sacrifice what you really want to do just to help them out. A single CI turning up two nights a month for twenty years is far better than a single Officer being pushed into uniform to burn out inside five years. Believe me - I've seen both.

Good luck though!!!

[POBJOY]

Sig I would be wary about 'starting off' any involvement based upon 'short notice'.
This is a situation you need be comfortable with and PREPARED.
Therefore if you feel 'rushed' this may not be the best way to get started.
There are plenty of vacancies in the system so better to get your 'recon' done and then apply.
If the visit is based on an 'information session' then fine but i would suggest anything other than that should be prepared.

[teeteringhead]

And of course, these days a potential VR(T) Officer has to undertake the 2 day OASC at Cranwell, exactly the same as the regulars - less aptitude, medical and fitness tests.

Everything said before is helpful - particularly the caveats about an apparent "rush job". If you do get to OASC, there's plenty of good advice in the "sticky" at the top of the page.

VR(T) OASC Boards are usually Monday and Tuesday, with occasional weekend slots. Final decision is made by a Regional Commandant, acting as overall Board President.

Good luck with whichever path you take.

[chevvron]

Didn't know OASC was involved nowadays.
I was a cadet then became a CI when too old as there were no uniformed adult vacancies on my squadron.
Eventually my CO recommended me for a commission.
This was followed by an interview at Wing HQ with the Wing CO and the Wing AdO.
Next stage was an interview at Regional HQ with the Regional Commandant, Regional Admin Officer and a Wing Commander who wasn't my Wing Commander.
Both interviews were quite friendly as if they wanted you to pass.
Then a letter arrived telling me I was successful.
As soon as possible I booked my 5 day Initial Officers course at HQAC which in those days was at RAF Newton. Staying in the Officers Mess was no problem as I had already done so for about 9 months as part of my civilian occupation as an officer in the Civil Service.

[Dan Winterland]

Next thing is do you have what it takes? Do you have the appearance and bearing that will make you a credible member of the RAFVR(T)?


http://www.arrse.co.uk/community/attachments/188732_10151336961367451_307040557_n-jpg.115878/

[chevvron]

He hasn't been awarded the CFM; I wonder why?

[Pontius Navigator]

Sigmet, you joined pprune 12 years ago, that makes you at least 26 and probably early 30s. You should have enough life skills and Service knowledge. It is not as if you walked in off the street.

Whoever nominated you must think sufficiently highly of you to recommend that you 'join the club'.

Treat the interview from wing as at least a learning experience. If you put it off then later you would need to explain why you had delayed.

Good luck.

[Auster Fan]

He hasn't been awarded the CFM; I wonder why?
I believe an awful lot of brown stuff and a rotating object came to pass after that picture hit various online sites.... Understandably so too...

[Failed_Scopie]

And of course, these days a potential VR(T) Officer has to undertake the 2 day OASC at Cranwell, exactly the same as the regulars - less aptitude, medical and fitness tests.

Even with prior (and extensive) Commissioned service? It'll be 20 years for me this summer...

I am rapidly coming to the end of my time where I am and I would like to continue to 'stag on' in the Cadet Forces. For a variety of reasons, the ATC appeals to me more than the ACF (Officer in a technical Corps), but I really cannot believe that I would have to do OASC (again).

[tmmorris]

Even with prior (and extensive) Commissioned service? It'll be 20 years for me this summer...

I am rapidly coming to the end of my time where I am and I would like to continue to 'stag on' in the Cadet Forces. For a variety of reasons, the ATC appeals to me more than the ACF (Officer in a technical Corps), but I really cannot believe that I would have to do OASC (again).

Pretty sure that no, you won't have to. There was also talk of a shortened OIC for ex-commissioned RAF people but I don't know if it happened.

[tmmorris]

http://www.arrse.co.uk/community/attachments/188732_10151336961367451_307040557_n-jpg.115878/

Sadly discussions I was involved in (very peripherally) about fitness standards for RAFVR(T) went nowhere. I would like to see a BMI rule for wearing uniform - simpler than BFT - but there was no appetite for the fallout which might follow. I don't know if fitness is still on the agenda.

[RUCAWO]

Brown stuff really did hit the fan with that pic! As for fitness tests the problem is not so much people being overweight but having other problems, as it is with me I could not pass until at least I get a kidney transplant which thankfully may be happening in the next few months thanks to a (VR)T friend who has offered to donate one of his for me. I can do normal Sqn activities as the Adj but camps , full days etc have been ruled out for me for the last year or so.
I have seen numerous people , super-fit, look good in uniform etc who are a waste of time as staff whilst others who are maybe overweight ,have a few medical problems etc who are outstanding as officers /SNCO/WO .

As for the OP the chat with the WSO will be just to sound you out as you are the one who has to apply then have your filter interview with the WExO , if you are not happy don't let them push you .

One CWO from a local Sqn is turning 20 later in the year and has applied fpr ASNCO , her Sqn Cdr and WSO were both pushing her for commission but she believes she is more suited to NCO ,she also wants to move to my unit as she ,rightly in my opinion, believes she is better going to a different unit as staff than the one she was a cadet in.

[romeo bravo]

Even with prior (and extensive) Commissioned service? It'll be 20 years for me this summer...

I am rapidly coming to the end of my time where I am and I would like to continue to 'stag on' in the Cadet Forces. For a variety of reasons, the ATC appeals to me more than the ACF (Officer in a technical Corps), but I really cannot believe that I would have to do OASC (again).

All depends on rank on departure and experience. We had ex-Flt Lt Pilot, left a good 8 years ago, submitted commissioning paperwork thro Wing HQ, telecon with Reg Comdt to check suitability, straight to SCC (no IOC or OASC), came out the other end as Fg Off. And we have an ex-Sqn Ldr going the same route at present.

[Failed_Scopie]

All depends on rank on departure and experience. We had ex-Flt Lt Pilot, left a good 8 years ago, submitted commissioning paperwork thro Wing HQ, telecon with Reg Comdt to check suitability, straight to SCC (no IOC or OASC), came out the other end as Fg Off. And we have an ex-Sqn Ldr going the same route at present.

I'm an OF-3 (Army NOT RAF)but from a Technical Corps i.e. Royal Signals, hence my desire to use my background in the ATC as opposed to the ACF, where it would probably not be used. I am genuinely interested and would be looking to come across in the next 12 months or thereabouts.

[britinusa]

Romeo Bravo
I left the RAF 5 years ago after a 35 year career, they put me through an interview with the REGIONAL CDR, and was expected to complete the SCC within two years. I was awarded F/O, then within two months, I found myself taking over Sqn Cdr, did SCC, and was awarded the rank of Flt Lt.

Your experience would be very useful to the Cadets, but I suspect you already know that

[teeteringhead]

If a potential VR(T) Officer has been commissioned for at least 2 years in any regular or reserve service, then they may be recommissioned without OASC (just interview with Rgnl Comdt). If previously of Fg Off (or equivalent) rank, May be commissioned as Fg Off.

All VR(T) are a maximum of substantive Fg Offs, all higher ranks are acting, some acting paid, some acting unpaid.

Previous service on "Countdown" an advantage ........;)

Scopie

Whereabouts are you/will you be based? If you wish to PM me I can give you a contact name and number ...... :ok:

[Failed_Scopie]

If a potential VR(T) Officer has been commissioned for at least 2 years in any regular or reserve service, then they may be recommissioned without OASC (just interview with Rgnl Comdt). If previously of Fg Off (or equivalent) rank, May be commissioned as Fg Off.

All VR(T) are a maximum of substantive Fg Offs, all higher ranks are acting, some acting paid, some acting unpaid.

Previous service on "Countdown" an advantage ........;)

Scopie

Whereabouts are you/will you be based? If you wish to PM me I can give you a contact name and number ...... :ok:

Thank you. I'm at work at the moment but I'll try and drop you a line later... Kind regards, F_S.

[Arclite01]

I actually believe the guy in the pictures above was the Parade Commander............

I'll get my coat...............

Arc

[ShyTorque]

Appalling standard of dress. The belt should be worn under the beergut and the shirt should be tucked inside the underpants. :hmm:

[Prangster]

Appalling standard of dress. The belt should be worn under the beergut and the shirt should be tucked inside the underpants. :hmm:


CCF hossifer wanders into mess. Station Commander turns puce at 50 paces
Dress: Cavalry beret. RAF No 1 blues tunic. Cavalry riding britches. Brown shoes. Some sort of cravat thingy.


The roar of get out and stay out echoed down all the corridors for days!

[tmmorris]

CCF hossifer wanders into mess. Station Commander turns puce at 50 paces
Dress: Cavalry beret. RAF No 1 blues tunic. Cavalry riding britches. Brown shoes. Some sort of cravat thingy.


The roar of get out and stay out echoed down all the corridors for days!

Were you there? Too good to be true...

[chevvron]

CCF hossifer wanders into mess. Station Commander turns puce at 50 paces
Dress: Cavalry beret. RAF No 1 blues tunic. Cavalry riding britches. Brown shoes. Some sort of cravat thingy.


The roar of get out and stay out echoed down all the corridors for days!

He's only a schoolteacher, what would you expect?

[tmmorris]

He's only a schoolteacher, what would you expect?

Approx 50% of CCF officers aren't, and one of mine is dual-hatted with an ATC appointment...

Only? :=

[Wander00]

Maybe it was a member of the RAF Equitation Association

[tmmorris]

Maybe it was a member of the RAF Equitation Association

Good point, actually, I've sent cadets into riding competitions dressed exactly like that. Except they were to wear wedgewood shirt and tie not a stock.

[bobward]

Strangely enough, today I clock up 40 years service as an ATC Instructor. I started off as a CI, and after five years, was invited take up a warrant officer post. Five years later, I was commissioned, and two years later was a squadron commander.

As has been said earlier, it can take over your life if you let it. I had to make a conscious decision to cut back when it started to clash with family and work commitments. It has given me some of the most rewarding, and frustrating, times of my life. There are all sorts in the organisation, just like the real world. It's up to the individual to sort out the good guys from the fools, and act accordingly.

When I reached 54, I decided to hang up the blue suit, and let the younger ones have some room. However, I've stayed with it, back as a CI since then. As I see it, a potential uniformed instructor needs to ask them selves a simple question , 'Am I doing this for my cadets, or as an ego trip for me?

If you can honestly answer that question, you won't go far wrong. And never forget that Mother Nature gave you two ears, and one mouth - and that is the ratio to use at all times....

Good luck!

[chevvron]

Strangely enough, today I clock up 40 years service as an ATC Instructor. I started off as a CI, and after five years, was invited take up a warrant officer post. Five years later, I was commissioned, and two years later was a squadron commander.

As has been said earlier, it can take over your life if you let it. I had to make a conscious decision to cut back when it started to clash with family and work commitments. It has given me some of the most rewarding, and frustrating, times of my life. There are all sorts in the organisation, just like the real world. It's up to the individual to sort out the good guys from the fools, and act accordingly.

When I reached 54, I decided to hang up the blue suit, and let the younger ones have some room. However, I've stayed with it, back as a CI since then. As I see it, a potential uniformed instructor needs to ask them selves a simple question , 'Am I doing this for my cadets, or as an ego trip for me?

If you can honestly answer that question, you won't go far wrong. And never forget that Mother Nature gave you two ears, and one mouth - and that is the ratio to use at all times....

Good luck!
I took a commission so as to put back some of the experience and knowledge I gained from being a cadet particularly as a staff cadet at a VGS where I was a P2 Grade Pilot (G1 nowadays). I finished as WGLO to between 1 and 3 gliding schools at various times (612,613, 616). Many officers in my wing took great pleasure in joining the local RAF Officers Mess so they had an excuse to buy themselves a No 5 and attend dining in nights, to the extent it would appear that was the main reason they wanted to be commissioned.
That didn't interest me. What irks me was my Wing Cdr terminating my commission due to lack of attendance at my squadron due to my shiftwork when I was travelling to the VGS at weekends so still putting in the hours (but I couldn't prove it)

[Arclite01]

Chev

My experience is that Squadrons don't like their staff doing secondary duty at a VGS as they feel we should give all our time to the Squadron not the VGS (but the VGS is equally demanding of our time)
Also Wing does not like Squadron staff or Wing Staff attached to VGS's for the same reason - they think the Wing should come first............. even the GLO is seen as spending too much time with the VGS in my experience (despite that is their role !)

Personally I think it's not until you get to Region that you start to lift out of the mire of personal or organisational agendas.........

Internal Organisational Politics - gotta love 'em

Arc

[chevvron]

I was WGLO in the days before it was an established Wing Staff post as a co-opted Officer still attached to a squadron. They offered me the post because they were aware my shiftwork didn't fit in with Squadron parade nights, I rarely even got a full weekend off as I worked a recurring 6 on/3 off roster.
I think the WingCo had underlying personal reasons for 'sacking' me when I was only 50 years old, but there's nothing I can prove; my involvement with a microlight school on an RAF Station (operated by an ATC squadron Commander) did not detract from my Corps duties in any way and the WingCo himself learned to fly there!
Still you don't want to know my sob story so I won't say any more.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Our last local (small town) parade, that chap would have put the sea cadets to shame for smartness. As did the girls marching band, whose turn out was exemplary!

G

[Union Jack]

The roar of get out and stay out echoed down all the corridors for days! - Prangster

Curiously enough, I recall a completely opposite reaction when the officer commanding the naval section of my school CCF was received somewhat sniffily on board a frigate in his rather faded dark blue Burberry, up until he removed his Burberry, which revealed without comment that he had been awarded not one, but two DSCs.....:ok:

Jack

[RUCAWO]

As staff it's not often you get recognition but when something like this arrives in your inbox :O

Subject: Recent Visit to Regent House

Dear Sir/Madam,

Mr Shannon would like to thank you for your efforts in not only keeping the cadets alive in the Ards but being one of the best in the whole country.

Mr Shannon tabled the following Early Day Motion in February:

“That this House congratulates the Air Cadets on their 75th anniversary, commends them for the valuable contribution they make and the important skills they teach young people, preparing them for both life in the RAF cadets and adult life; and congratulates the very successful Air Cadets based at Regent House School in Newtownards.”

We got signatures from nearly all NI MPs and some notable MPs across the water and it was great to see your hard work and determination get some recognition at Westminster.

Mr Shannon congratulates you on all your successes and wishes you well for the future.

Kind regards,

Michael Shaw

Parliamentary Aide to Jim Shannon MP
Member of Parliament for Strangford
Democratic Unionist Party

Add to two Flying scholarships awarded in a week, Wg Best Cadet,,Wg Best Sports Cadet, Regional Best Sports cadet, Lord Lieutenants Cadet, LL Certificate for a member of staff;) and it makes it all worthwhile :D

[Prangster]

Were you there? Too good to be true...

Yes I was his replacement I'd been bribed by my wing (EMW ATC) to act as CCF camp commandant at Binbrook as CCF couldn't provide enough staff. The little lambs were I think from Greshams School.


I recall SWO still in shock 2 days later

[teeteringhead]

Reminds me of one time in the bar of the Secret Hampshire Helicopter Base. One of our livers-in rode to hounds, and came into the bar one Sunday lunchtime resplendent in full Fox-chasing outfit.

Whereupon the assembled mob of unruly hangover-nursing Flying Officers "windowed" him - for coming into the bar in "sports kit" ;)

[sigmet]

for a great cross section of views and advice.. All very helpful.. I'll update you shortly

[tmmorris]

Reminds me of one time in the bar of the Secret Hampshire Helicopter Base. One of our livers-in rode to hounds, and came into the bar one Sunday lunchtime resplendent in full Fox-chasing outfit.

Whereupon the assembled mob of unruly hangover-nursing Flying Officers "windowed" him - for coming into the bar in "sports kit" ;)

Quite right. It's well known that it's only a Sport if something gets killed; everything else is Games.