EK: How many resigned today?

[Rotating Bacon]

How many resigned today or will tomorrow? 2 of my friends resigned today

[mushr00m]

"Exodus....movement of 'da people....." by Bob Marley.
Can't seem to get that song outta my head...not sure why?

[SuckItUp]

Seniority list says 60 pilots gone in between 1st December and end of February.

[Rotating Bacon]

just wondering because its 91 days until 31st of may and you will theoreticaly get a bonus if there is one and if they pay it in may as they usually do

[Panther 88]

Very likely very small profit share, not due to EK said profit, but rather to prevent the exodus of cc and fc leaving soon after all on one or two days.

[helen-damnation]

P88,

That won't stop the exodus, just create more bad feeling :uhoh:

[Tiotes massive head]

Probably not that many as officially it's paid in June, despite usually being paid in May.

[AlanPardew]

Probably not that many as officially it's paid in June, despite usually being paid in May.

Mr Tiote, I understand you might be looking to move to a Chinese carrier, could you be tempted to join me in a move to London?

I'm in a managerial role based in the capital and I remember when we were based in NCL together you were a very valued, hard working employee.

We need characters like you to make sure my airline doesn't go down.

I know there's now more money being offered in Asia, specifically China, but if you want to further your career then I feel you should come and work with me again.

Cheers, Alan

[trimotor]

Rumour has it that it's been >1/day since the start of the year..(60% left seat)

[glofish]

too long overdue.

It's like an overcooked sirloin: you wanted it rare and it comes well done. No chance to recover.

If (and it is a huge if) overseas bases would be on the table, just imagine:
EK would most probably offer it to newcomers (DECs) first, to attract a minimum of pilots who can tell the front from the rear of an aircraft. That would in turn anger the methusalems around here, who would ask to be the first for such a treat.
"No can do" will say EK, overwhelmed by the number asking for it (judging by the attraction Dubai has become, close to 80%) ..... and overlooked, the latter will leave even more rapidly ....

No. Dream on, they'd rather lower the standard to microsoft drone heroes, than open bases!

[flaphandlemover]

Terms have changed again.....
New hour limits for new joiners....

From the net.....

• >2000hrs on MTOW >20T
• >3000hrs on MTOW between 10T & 20T

[fatbus]

Disparate times call for disparate measures. I think more than one wheel has fallen off.

[Rather Be Skiing]

Terms have changed again..... New hour limits for new joiners.... From the net..... • >2000hrs on MTOW >20T • >3000hrs on MTOW between 10T & 20T

Pardon my ignorance but what was it before this?

[troff]

At the rate they have been going the last few months, EK is adding about 180 pilots a year to the seniority list.

[rmcdonal]

Pardon my ignorance but what was it before this? ATPL and LVL 4 English, so technically it has come back up. :E

[cerbus]

At the rate they have been going the last few months, EK is adding about 180 pilots a year to the seniority list...


And they are losing 40-45 pilots a month and just wait until this summer!
Quality goes out the door while TP pilots with 1500 hrs come banging down the door.
At this rate I don't even think overseas bases will help the cause.

[troff]

At the rate they have been going the last few months, EK is adding about 180 pilots a year to the seniority list...


And they are losing 40-45 pilots a month and just wait until this summer!
Quality goes out the door while TP pilots with 1500 hrs come banging down the door.
At this rate I don't even think overseas bases will help the cause.

What I mean is the total sum of the pilot body is increasing at a rate that is about 180 a year including hiring, firing, attrition, etc. Period.

[EK380]

[QUOTE=cerbus;9291752]At the rate they have been going the last few months, EK is adding about 180 pilots a year to the seniority list...


And they are losing 40-45 pilots a month and just wait until this summer!
Quality goes out the door while TP pilots with 1500 hrs come banging down the door.
At this rate I don't even think overseas bases will help the cause.[/QUOTE

Please get your facts right... 20-27 per month off the seniority list for the last the three months and that includes retirements, long time sickness and people "asked" to resign.

[troff]

[QUOTE=cerbus;9291752]At the rate they have been going the last few months, EK is adding about 180 pilots a year to the seniority list...


And they are losing 40-45 pilots a month and just wait until this summer!
Quality goes out the door while TP pilots with 1500 hrs come banging down the door.
At this rate I don't even think overseas bases will help the cause.[/QUOTE

Please get your facts right... 20-27 per month off the seniority list for the last the three months and that includes retirements, long time sickness and people "asked" to resign.

March 21 had an even 3900- Today there are 67 more. You do the math.

[Flyboy_SG]

Looks like like the min qualification for FO will become a CPL with multi. :sad:
My friend who is in Line training, is already complaining.

[glofish]

Yeah, and we have to fly with them.

The questionable recruitment, minimal training and then throwing them at us fatigued skippers, is nothing less but worrying.

Now before you tar and feather me:
Nothing wrong with them as colleagues and pilots, each and everyone of us would appear as inexperienced with the same background. In another company with less destinations, new and dangerous, with rosters that are human and not against every medical and scientific finding, with management that would deserve such a name, it can actually work.

But here at EK, at this very moment, we are adding a hole to the Swiss cheese, where there are far too many already.

As simple as that. And now comes the one million dollar question:

Where can we raise that issue?

Fleet? :ouch:
VPOps? :ouch::ouch::ouch:
GCAA? :{
EASA/FAA? :O
VC? :}

[Tourist]

You are either competent to be a captain and deal with the inexperience of a fully qualified but new FO or you are not.

This is the same for every airline, except many airlines have old shabby aircraft and poor training departments.

EK has neither, and has no more tricky destinations than BA or any other legacy airline who all cope with cadets.

If you are not competent to do the job of handling junior FOs then resign but just stop whining about it as if it is somehow something special to have to actually mentor some junior guys occasionally.

You were spoiled for years, now you are not. Get over it.

[fatbus]

Good post tourist . Totally agree.

[777-200LR]

Couldn't agree more Tourist!

I'd rather fly with a new young TP FO that has the enthusiasm to learn and build his/her career and not talk about things related to resigning. As I have caught myself saying a lot more recently, not all of us have resigned or are planning to resign this summer

[glofish]

Sorry guys, some problem with reading comprehension?
Was not part of your assessment i believe.

[Fellowship of the drink]

You are all naive in thinking an enthusiastic inexperienced co-pilot will be able to back you up when you make an "uncharacteristic" mistake because you are on your third night turnaround in a row on a 100+ hour month flying into a CB laced airport at night with poor ATC. You look to your right and your FO is miles behind the airplane because he hasn't seen a light show in the sky like this in his life!

Fatbus and tourist are probably on the long haul fleet and are not qualified to pass judgments on pilots who do combination night turns, ULR and over 100 hours for the last three years (is this the same as BA and legacy carriers? really?) Yes we are qualified to handle FO's fresh from the cadet program, but not in the current state of mental and physical exhaustion.

B777-200LR, I am happy for you that you can still see the positive points of flying (I truly am). I am not against new blood. I am against new blood replacing the experienced guys who are leaving. Soon, people like you will be the minority and then what?

[donpizmeov]

We have been taking 2000hr guys for years. In fact these guys are getting commands by now, have probably done the required 6 months left seat and most probably TREs on the Boeing.

I can't see 3000hr turbo prop fellas being less experienced than a 2000hr Barbiejet pilot.

[fatbus]

My dear Fellow , you are so wrong it made me laugh.

[Tourist]

Fatbus and tourist are probably on the long haul fleet and are not qualified to pass judgments on pilots who do combination night turns, ULR and over 100 hours for the last three years (is this the same as BA and legacy carriers? really?) Yes we are qualified to handle FO's fresh from the cadet program, but not in the current state of mental and physical exhaustion.


I don't fly for EK because it is sh1tty to work for.

Yes I am qualified to pass judgement on pilots who fly "in the current state of mental and physical exhaustion"

It is your duty to declare yourself unfit to fly if you are too fatigued to cope with a qualified but inexperienced FO. Don't whine about it on Pprune, do something!

This situation is in no way the fault of the FO or his inexperience and entirely the fault of Captains being unwilling to stand up for themselves.

It is your duty to refuse to fly if you are too tired.
End of.

If you are not willing to stand up to airline bullying with the potential to lose your job then you have no business sitting in a pilots seat.

Resign.

There are lots of jobs out there at the moment.

[Enos]

Tourist

You don't work for EK because it's Sh1ty ..... Then how do you know it's Sh1ty??

You don't work for EK but you are busy reading posts about EK ..... Why?? If it Sh1ty why are you bothered??

[Tourist]

Tourist

You don't work for EK because it's Sh1ty ..... Then how do you know it's Sh1ty??

You don't work for EK but you are busy reading posts about EK ..... Why?? If it Sh1ty why are you bothered??

I know it is sh1tty because I can read on here that it is ****ty.

It's called research.

Bet you wish you did some eh?

I'm bothering to post because some on here are trying to suggest that having young inexperienced FOs is in some way a new aspect of sh1tty for EK.

It is not.

Having young inexperienced FOs is normal for any decent airline.

Getting young inexperienced FOs have merely exposed the fact that some EK captains are uncomfortable flying without experienced FOs and feel this is a safety issue.
Whether due to incompetence or fatigue, this is a very serious issue. If I were in that position I would refuse to fly.

[troff]

[QUOTE=Tourist;9300536]I know it is sh1tty because I can read on here that it is ****ty.

It's called research.

Research done in a rumour mill... Ha!

[QCM]

https://image-store.slidesharecdn.com/14ed22d8-dc07-4624-abc9-b3fde5ba2a59-original.png

[Tourist]

That picture would be better if the artist understood physics......

[Stone_cold]

That picture would be better if the artist understood physics......

Yes Tourist , we get it .You know all about everything ! It's just a freaking joke and I am sure it's appreciated by many who don't have something stuck up their a$$ . Tired of pontificating the virtues of pilotless aircraft ?


http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/572593-automation-dependency-stripped-political-correctness.html

Folks , he never stops , please don't encourage him , somehow he will get the topic around to this .

[Tourist]

Do you find Ad Hominem attacks helpful when you cannot argue the point Stone?

This has nothing to do with unmanned aircraft that I can see?

It's a pilot forum.

I like many others have interests in various aspects of aviation. Don't get excited because I disagree with you on one or two. Life would be dull if we all agreed.

[BigGeordie]

Tourist could well be EK management: a firm grasp on the non-essentials while missing the point completely.

[Kapitanleutnant]

Troff...

Ya, absolutely nothing on this forum is true about EK, right? After all, as you say, it's a rumour network???

Completely laughable........

K

[littlejet]

At 3AM annex I India flight I need a fully functioning and ready for anything, not learning FO.
How will the training dept will make them fit is yet to be seen.

L.

[donpizmeov]

Little jet. We have been taking 2000hr dudes for 5 to 6 years already.

[Tourist]

Tourist could well be EK management: a firm grasp on the non-essentials while missing the point completely.

Explain?

I merely suggested that the problem is not inexperienced FOs. Nearly every airline has those, you were one yourself once.


The problem is Captains willing to fly when dangerously fatigued.

If you think you cannot be safe without a grown-up FO to monitor you, then you need to look long and hard at yourself and your acceptance of fatigue.

If you are tired, don't fly.
That might get you fired.
So what?

[Rotating Bacon]

I was actually asking how many resigned today besides me. I select 7500 for the hijack of my post

[QCM]

...7600...

[BigGeordie]

Tourist, I was referring to your comments on the cartoon, not the inexperienced F/Os. It wasn't personal, just saying it is the sort of comment I would expect from our illustrious management when faced with a problem like that.

[Rotating Bacon]

QCM
7500 for hijack as far as I remember, but maybe EK changed it to 7600, they can do anything they want

[GoreTex]

I did, leaving end of May

[Zulu Tango]

Me too....

[pilotrob23]

I resigned as well, and am back in the States with a few weeks off before the new job here. Certainly miss the wonderful people I worked with, but not the rosters. Body is catching up, and haven't felt this rested in a long time. Best of luck to my Dubai buddies, hang in there.

[Neptune Spear]

Two more Emirates pilots will be joining the Delta ranks.
I told them it will be the best move they will ever make. Not only the money will be better but the lifestyle and of course how they feel both mentally and physically.
Get out as soon as you can!

[Fire Ball XL5]

End of May can't come soon enough! :D Looking forward to summer outside of the sand pit and the bloody 45c days!

For those describing earlier in this thread about "only" XX resignations year to date... the answer to this thread will be clear when perusing the seniority list come June.

Good luck to all!
FB

[Pointer]

My seniority no. is lower than 2000 and in the last 7 weeks I have climbed 9 spots…

Pointer :E

[fatbus]

im14 years and moved up 4. out of boredom a pilot that joined summer 2014 has moved up @ 250.

[3Greens]

QCM
7500 for hijack as far as I remember, but maybe EK changed it to 7600, they can do anything they want

correct. 75= "taken alive",

[SyncPilot]

Joined spring 2014 around 3750is seniority number now around 3300-3350 > moved up more than 400+ spots! 👍

[uba737]

Joined APR 08, have moved up just shy of 500 spots!

[josesilvajs]

Is there a unique list of all pilots or they're 2 (one for captains and one for F/O)?

[GoreTex]

UAE expats priced out of their lives | The National (http://www.thenational.ae/business/personal-finance/uae-expats-priced-out-of-their-lives)

[fatbus]

I confirmed with my mate, he stated jul 2014 @ 3650 now @3400.syncpilot so only @ 100 between you and 2008 have gone.

[buggerall]

UAE expats priced out of their lives | The National (http://www.thenational.ae/business/personal-finance/uae-expats-priced-out-of-their-lives)

Why quote 2014 news??

[ExDubai]

Why quote 2014 news??
Maybe because the situation didn't improve.....

[pilotguy1222]

The number I heard was 27. That should mostly be due to the timing of the school allowance. I am sure there are some there for the payout, if we get one, but the smart ones will wait until April 1st :) in case the payout is not made until June.

The seniority list at EK is completely worthless. Ghost pilots on there that have been gone forever, plus the numbers that are being reused. It is grossly inaccurate.

[Rotating Bacon]

hope they all are smart and resign April 1st because I resigned March 1st, if everybody resigns April 1st they will pay it in May and then I am the smart one ;)

[lospilotos]

The seniority list at EK is completely worthless. Ghost pilots on there that have been gone forever, plus the numbers that are being reused. It is grossly inaccurate.

That ghost pilots that been gone forever are still on the list is just not true. If so, give us a couple of staff numbers to verify. Also, reuse of staffno was a cabin crew thing and wouldn't affect the seniority list anyhow as it is based on DOS (not the operating system, but Date of Service)

[pilotguy1222]

That ghost pilots that been gone forever are still on the list is just not true. If so, give us a couple of staff numbers to verify. Also, reuse of staffno was a cabin crew thing and wouldn't affect the seniority list anyhow as it is based on DOS (not the operating system, but Date of Service)

Are you sure it is not DOS, the OS?? Seems to be about how fast some of our stuff is, lol.

I will open it up and dig into the few numbers I have written around here, somewhere.

Thanks tirren. I did not know that the old numbers given had been new ones now.

How often is seniority list updated? Gonna track a 380 CA who just left a few weeks ago.

[ifly462]

im assuming all of you on here joined every company you worked for with 10k plus widebody jet hours and was NEVER young fo. Get down off your high horse and stop forgetting where you came from. Its the circle of life, give others a chance! YOU WERE ONCE THAT INEXPERIENCED WIDE EYED FO!!

[Uplink]

I think the DOS stands for Date of Seniority?

Also the seniority list seems to go up and down. Not sure about the ghost pilots but one colleague mentioned that the cadets enter the seniority list after they graduate so this would account for variations. However looking at the admin competency levels in EK, I can only guess the list is run as competently as accomodation, staff travel and HR to name but a few depts!

[lospilotos]

I think the DOS stands for Date of Seniority?

Also the seniority list seems to go up and down. Not sure about the ghost pilots but one colleague mentioned that the cadets enter the seniority list after they graduate so this would account for variations. However looking at the admin competency levels in EK, I can only guess the list is run as competently as accomodation, staff travel and HR to name but a few depts!

You are correct Date of Seniority it is. OM-A 20.10.2

A cadet gets a staffno when he/joins and is added to the seniority list when starting the actual Boeing/Airbus course with that later date as DoS. That's why you see lower staffnos sometimes further down the list.

[MosEisley]

im assuming all of you on here joined every company you worked for with 10k plus widebody jet hours and was NEVER young fo. Get down off your high horse and stop forgetting where you came from. Its the circle of life, give others a chance! YOU WERE ONCE THAT INEXPERIENCED WIDE EYED FO!!

Ifly, with all due respect, when I joined I had 6000+ hours and 3000+ PIC, it isn't really the same now, and this isn't a beginners airline. I think that's what people are getting at. I may have been new on type but certainly not inexperienced. Even so, it still felt like I was drinking from a fire hose trying to get up to speed. There's no high horse and there's no substitute for experience.

[ifly462]

With all due respect an aircraft is an aircraft is an aircaft. You Must begin somewhere. Experience has alot to do with it but ive met kids that flew circles around 10k plus captains. What about those guys who couldnt fly a visual in San Fran? Were they inexperienced? We are our worst enemy in Aviation. Instead of opening up our arms to new comers knowing the struggle of this industry. We start condeming the newbies who werent as fortunate as us to land a big shinny jet job straight out of Flight school.

As as i said before get off your high horse. Id much rather fly with a 3000 hour turbo prop fo than a 6000 hour child of the magenta.

[alwayzinit]

ifly, before most of us came to EK we had served "apprenticeships" doing many take offs and landings, turnarounds, ETOPS, Military service, whatever. Many had narrow body Commands and opted for a wide body right seat to learn the ropes before moving to the left seat in a wide body.
The current situation bears no resemblance to the previous entry requirements. If the entry requirements were valid then, then there are valid now.
Of course everyone started off with no experience, the difference is before travelling far and wide we and EK made sure our experience triangles had a wide base and a library of experience to fall back on when the wheels fall off.
Who would you prefer to fly your family, a flight deck with 30,000+ hours or one with less than 10,000? It is not denigration just fact.

[Bernoulli]

Flight decks don't fly aircraft, but Pilot's do.

[fatbus]

I want pilots who can fly when my family is on board not children of the magenta line. I will take the TP over most of the recent new hires . Also watch for increase failure rates on NAC both fleets.

[alwayzinit]

Bernouli, you are a pedant.

[Bernoulli]

And you are wrong for the second time. So there.....:p:}

[Airbuspilot72]

On my way out very soon. Thanks to the guy in the white robe in the fleet office

[Global_Global]

What is the latest number of people leaving?:cool:

[LHR Rain]

Before or after the Bonus of 12 weeks?
I'm sure many pilots have their resignation ready in case we do get the screw job.

[fatbus]

Many are in already for 1 Jun. don't be so paranoid

[PMASHA]

Airbuspilot72 many in white robes. Who

[CaptainChipotle]

:DP-MASH

Shouldn't you be enjoying your weekend from the office? Theres only a few in white robes who have a reputation, but I'm sure you know this.

As far as this thread goes, Didn't TCAS send a letter out a few years back outlining the details of the availability to collect the bonus? I remember a few of the stipulations in which you aren't eligible to collect the bonus; If you are serving a final written warming, or if you are serving your notice period. I know the bonus is for the previous financial year, but I could be wrong about the TCAS letter.

Im willing to be corrected, but we all know that things are changed after the fact for the benefit of the company.

Safe flying.

CC