EK Annual Leave Ticket [Archive]

CamelRustler

26th Feb 2016, 09:16

Not quite the same as a paying passenger. If the passenger is offloaded they will be compensated with an additional round trip ticket. You will not. So the question has now become, "Who will they offload first?" Most likely the one who is not entitled to compensation would be a fair guess. This is a recent change.

linedriva

26th Feb 2016, 09:36

CamelRustler

According to the staff travel manual, the offload is treated as a full fare pax. You'll still get the extra round trip ticket. Unless the recent update you mention isn't the in the current staff travel manual available on the portal. ;)

If you get downgraded, then there's no compensation though.

Slash787

26th Feb 2016, 10:08

Don't you people get free tickets all around the year?

The airline which I work for, I can book a Business Class tickets for me and my family anytime I want

Yeah they I don't get housing allowance or a Pickup/drop to the airport as a Pilot.

By Free tickets I mean I only have to pay the tax, not the fare.

CamelRustler

26th Feb 2016, 13:44

Yup you are correct. I was thinking about the downgrade without compensation, and writing about offloading. I happily stand corrected.:O

777-200LR

26th Feb 2016, 15:58

As far as I can remember, and I stand to be corrected; if you are offloaded on an ID 50 or ALT, you will be granted an extra round trip ticket

ALLRIGHTFORTHEHEIGHT

1st Mar 2016, 08:04

Hello,
Does anyone have any documentation/reference regarding the policy on downgrade when using ALT's?
I was booked J firm, upgrade to F subject to availability, got downgraded to Y due overbooking, company now will not reissue the ALT!
I know they have reissued ALT's in the past, I'm just looking for the reference.
Thanks.

donpizmeov

1st Mar 2016, 08:38

Was it a two or three class flight?

CamelRustler

1st Mar 2016, 09:35

Yes the change happened 2-3 months back. (Before Christmas.) I remember reading it, but unsure where.

The same happened to me going to US.

Basically it allows EK to remove ALT tickets when filling an airplane. I was also told the flight was over sold and EK policy is to downgrade employees first. ALT's now mean little. Just priority in getting on over other nonrevs. No compensation is given unless you are off-loaded. You will not, however get your lost vacation day returned if you are offloaded. Ek is a business, over selling the flight really hurts no one. Well, no one of significance. As you just experienced.

ALLRIGHTFORTHEHEIGHT

1st Mar 2016, 10:35

Three class

fatbus

1st Mar 2016, 12:04

Correct me if I'm wrong, was that a actual change to the protocol or just a change to the wording to highlight it. 12 years ago neighbour was downgraded at the gate because of last min full fare.

The Turtle

1st Mar 2016, 15:39

I too have been bumped from 1A to 47K.....brutal

helen-damnation

1st Mar 2016, 21:43

Tell them you'll take the denied boarding so they have to give you a full fare ticket plus meals etc and make sure they book you on the next flight using the full fare ticket.

pumpkin

2nd Mar 2016, 02:13

Tell them you'll take the denied boarding so they have to give you a full fare ticket plus meals etc and make sure they book you on the next flight using the full fare ticket.

Can you do that , if they are giving you a seat in Y?

ruserious

2nd Mar 2016, 03:24

I too have been bumped from 1A to 47K.....brutal

Turtle, I feel your pain :p

helen-damnation

2nd Mar 2016, 04:53

Pumpkin

STM A4 - 4 refers; "Overbooking - Voluntary/Compulsory Offload"

Note that check in are required to ask all pax to voluntarily offload with benefits before they dump you.

As I read it, you are not obliged to take the Y seat even if that means the a/c goes with empty seats.

Having reread, I was wrong about using the freebie for the next flight. It's not available for use for 7 days!

Camelrustler EK policy is to downgrade employees first.

Either the policy has recently changed or you were "mislead".

donpizmeov

2nd Mar 2016, 05:54

Helen,

Have spent the morning discussing this with a HR muppet. Seems para 1.7 (cant copy and paste for some reason) is where we are screwed. It states that if you don't get the upgrade, or are downgraded it is considered you have used your ALT and there is no compensation.

So it does appear that the Class of travel in your contract is considered overridden by the last amendment to the staff travel manual. And it is a new amendment as stated above.

Time to write to TICH

aussiefarmer

2nd Mar 2016, 06:39

The list of contractual breaches in EK keeps getting longer and longer...

hard to picture that this airline was the first choice - almost a dream to work for - for expat pilots over a decade ago

How can you convince quality talent to join when the word on the street is that that contract you sign on thick and expensive quality paper with golden titles will mean NOTHING to one of the sides as they ignore the agreement in regards to leave days, class for annual leave tickets etc.?

How can anyone consider such an employer a serious and trustworthy entity?

CamelRustler

2nd Mar 2016, 07:38

Helen,
I spoke with six Staff Travel people that evening. They finally made a call to the "Supreme Supervisor" and over the phone they confirmed this was the case. I argued that I was using ALT's and was informed, "There is no difference, staff are downgraded before paying passengers."

Logically they have to compensate the paying passenger, but they do not compensate us.

The Turtle

2nd Mar 2016, 12:14

You can refuse the downgrade, and try again tomorrow.

and waste a day of holiday.

1-x=less days away from here

SOPS

2nd Mar 2016, 12:26

I'm going to dig out my 'contract', but I'm sure it said my ALT was firm J. No mention of downgrade, just firm J, upgrade F.

ClassCbird

2nd Mar 2016, 13:58

Still somewhat related to this thread, has anyone been offloaded from an annual leave ticket due to overbooking?

If so, how did that affect subsequent rostered duty and what were the repercussions from the company?

DCS99

2nd Mar 2016, 16:02

An Indian mate was offloaded from his ALT and got a free confirmed ticket as denied boarding compensation to the same destination.
...
Our family arrived at a UK regional Airport for a return flight to DXB after Xmas on ALT.
We were told the flight was overbooked and asked if we'd volunteer to nightstop at EK's cost.

I refused and said very curtly "I have to get back to work. EK holds me to my contract all the time. I'm holding EK to its contract. ALT is contractual. Understand? So get me and my family on this aircraft now."

We got issued Boarding Passes immediately.

Reading back what I said, I feel embarrassed at how rude and nasty I've become after 4+ years in the Sandpit. I don't recognise myself.

helen-damnation

2nd Mar 2016, 16:36

Don

Yes, if you accept travel on the flight then you have used your ALT and that's the end of it as per the new policy. However, you do not have to accept the downgrade and can take denied boarding privileges.

Camel,

I can only suggest in future you have a copy of the relevant pages from the STM. It's plainly written now even if it wasn't then.

Turtle

I'd be at TICHs door to get the day back. The company would have lost me the day by not honouring the ALT.

donpizmeov

3rd Mar 2016, 01:46

I see our point Helen. However we use to be told that ALT had higher priority than other SLF. Now it rates only above a CAT C. Not too much of a problem when returning to DXB to not accept Y, but a huge pain in the bum when you're leaving.

helen-damnation

6th Mar 2016, 05:16

Agreed Don.

I only hope that IF it happens a couple of times the cost and hassle would have some effect, but I may be having a fatigue induced hallucination :(

As has been said, seems to be mainly a DXB problem.

Fear_of_heights

6th Mar 2016, 06:15

Also if they issue you a boarding pass with F/J they cannot downgrade you at the gate due to passenger upgrade. There are some stations lately that are trying to do that.:=

Calmcavok

6th Mar 2016, 08:23

That's good to know. Do you have a reference so that we can wave something at them if they try that?

CAYNINE

6th Mar 2016, 11:34

777boyindubai

6th Mar 2016, 12:08

Just a quick comment to all the readers who doubt what is said here in relation to EK is true. Although owned by the Government of Dubai via ICD, it is classified as a semi -government company. That means they are not subject to UAE Labour Law!! A Government owned entity that isn't subject to its own law. Hence there is no contract that can be enforced. Hence all the downwards changes. Some are sneaky like the ALT. For others they send a contract adjustment letter. (Sic) a bunch of crooks. So glad I left. Not a moments regret. Think carefully!

donpizmeov

6th Mar 2016, 12:55

Good news is you are not government when government get a pay rise......oh wait there..

blackbird71

6th Mar 2016, 14:26

Where upgrade is not possible,
or where downgrade occurs,
travel in a lower class
will constitute use of the Annual Leave Ticket and no compensation will be
provided.

STM A5, 1.7

In blue means amended.... without any notice as usual.

The important part is the comma. Ie "travel in a lower class..." so i take that as you can downgrade me but i can choose not to travel on that flight in that lower class. I can take the next flight or next day.
As i have not travelled in that lower class i have not used the ALT.

donpizmeov

6th Mar 2016, 15:23

helen-damnation

6th Mar 2016, 16:16

At the risk of being totally paranoid.....

Take a photo of the original boarding pass and keep the original if poss.

Proof if you decide not to accept and take denied boarding as the company will undoubtedly claim you have "used" the coupon.

Think I'll have to go and lie down in a dark cockpit!

blackbird71

6th Mar 2016, 22:20

Don, i agree with you, but i read it as if you travel in a lower class.....IMHO what they do with the seats is up to them. I havent travelled until ive accepted the downgrade and boarded the a/c. If i choose not to travel then the ALT is unused.

fliion

7th Mar 2016, 00:04

Blackbird that is correct re

Under Ch2 - A2 Page 1 of 4 in Staff Travel manual "Points to Remember" section under ALT:

"CONFIRMED means that a seat is available and a booking has been made. Once confirmed these tickets are non off-loadable and staff passengers holding such tickets are eligible for denied boarding compensation if they volunteer to be off loaded, subject to specific circumstances & conditions"

Nothing about downgrade

But Don is more correct in that in the intro section(Ch2 -A1) its states that the Manual is advisory only and does not constitute part of your contractual Terms & Conditions.

In other words your contract is the rule, which is now being broken...again.

This is a really sore point for all of us and must be core point of forum questions going forward.

"Why are our ALTs class of travel not being respected?"

If all who read this and or pass it on to our colleagues on the line, submits the same question above - we might, just might, win a small but very important battle that we shouldn't even be fighting.

It's no1 on my monthly question list. Don't get lazy or cynical - just do it.

fatbus

7th Mar 2016, 00:21

Any routes in particular that this is happening?

BANANASBANANAS

7th Mar 2016, 03:13

Problem is, you haven't travelled blackbird. It's part of your contracted entitlement. They can't sell your seat, and make a staff travel manual over rule your contract. Which is what they are doing in this case.

I have no intention of going into the minutae of my contract (perhaps I should) but most expat contracts have a clause along the lines of

'This contract may be amended at any time as the company deems fit.'

So the contract, if that is the case, is never worth the paper it is written on. This is my third expat airline and the previous two had that clause - though they never invoked it.

lospilotos

10th Mar 2016, 01:38

Off -thread a little but...

Does our Personal & Family Medical Cover (c/o Emirates Medical Services) here in the UAE actually work as adequate Travel Insurance abroad too whilst on annual Leave, etc?

No, you need proper travel insurance. I always sign up for worldnomads.com (http://www.worldnomads.com)

Dropp the Pilot

16th Mar 2016, 04:53

Unclear why you would think you need anything more than the company medical insurance unless it's just knee-jerk Emirates-bashing.

Provide some evidence that your employer has ever let anyone down whilst travelling.

Visual Procedures

16th Mar 2016, 19:00

Dropp..

In 2012 EK covered 3000dhs per day hospital cover. Worldwide. Maybe now its changed. Been lucky enough not to have had to test it.

They covered my ambulance, and the emergency scans. But not the specialist or follow up scans. I was on annual leave.

Then 3000dhs per day of the 3500 Canadian $ per day cost. Its in the fine print. Search and ye shall discover, hopefully unlike I did, when the bills weren't fully reimbursed.

I now take and recommend the RSA insurance. No complaints about the EK package, just putting it out there so people know.