Australian Defence Force expansion announced

[TBM-Legend]

More P-8A's now to 15
" KC-30A's to 9
" G-550 ISR to 5

7 x Tritons, 12 subs, 9 Frigates, 12 OPB's, Tiger ARH to be replaced [dud], combat SAR helos, Special Forces Light combat helos [MH-6??], MLRS, etc etc..

[typerated]

Wow you must be scared of China!


Shame your close allies over the ditch only spend tuppence!

[TBM-Legend]

NZ = Ireland I guess...

[typerated]

More like Belgium, Netherland, Germany and Denmark!

[Buster Hyman]

Hadn't heard that about the Tiger TBM. Any links to articles or discussions pls?

(Non Military chap & a non frequenter of Rotorheads & Dunnunda these days) :ok:

[TBM-Legend]

Google Australian Defence White Paper. Lots there.

[tartare]

Yes.
We are scared of China.
Big time.
Those Spratley Islands with radars and fighter jets are only a short P3 flight away.
And Uncle Sam seems to be content to let himself slowly be salami sliced as yet another reef is militarised.
Little by little - this whole situation is developing into a mess.
I think the increase in spending is great - thoroughly warranted.
Quite frankly - I'd be adding a few Virginia class boats if the bleedin' Australian public weren't such a bunch of anti-nuke wowsers.

[DHC4]

The Tiger dud comment, what are you basing it on.

[minigundiplomat]

Since when have Ireland been capable of fielding Tier 1 SF on a global basis?

Helen Clark may have decimated NZ military capabilities (perils of socialism) but NZ are a loyal ally and do still possess some very capable personnel.

[TBM-Legend]

Tiger ARH audit by Govt

Audit brochure (http://www.anao.gov.au/Publications/Audit-Reports/2005-2006/Management-of-the-Tiger-Armed-Reconnaissance-Helicopter-Project-Air-87/Audit-brochure)

[Stanwell]

Thanks for the link to that audit, TBM.
There's enough good material in there to provide a script for a tragi-comedy.

During my (civvy) working life, I'd had exposure to two Oz defence acquisition projects (1 Navy and 1 Army).
I concluded that two particular qualities Defence Contractors need to be possessed of are.. exceptional fitness and agility.
Chasing the constantly moving goalposts all over the field is tiring, frustrating and, if you're lucky, will often do little more than cover costs.

p.s. And, I might add, do nothing for your firm's reputation.
.

[PTR 175]

It is not only the air force that is spending money. The land forces have a big ongoing procurement exercise called Land 2110. A lot of their land equipment is rather elderly hence the ongoing procurement exercise.

[Heathrow Harry]

"Those Spratley Islands with radars and fighter jets are only a short P3 flight away."

wellll - at least 1800 miles to Darwin.....

hardly next door - and there are 200 million Indonesians in the way............

[Davef68]

The ADF’s air lift capability will be increased to comprise 8 heavylift C-17A Globemasters with additional heavy lift aircraft to be considered in the longer term, 12 upgraded C-130J Hercules, 10 C-27J Spartans and 10 CH-47F

What options for heavy lift aircraft? A400M?

[Pontius Navigator]

HH, didn't stop the Japanese.

[tartare]

...and tell it to the RAAF P-3 crews in the area who get warned away regularly.
I find myself wondering how super-powers like the US cope with the salami-slicing tactic.
The Chinese are pushing just a little bit, then a bit more - a radar here, SAMs, there, a few more fighter jets...

[rjtjrt]

Post 13 hardly next door - and there are 200 million Indonesians in the way............
A bit like Western European nations worrying about Soviet Union in cold war.
They had all those east european nations in the way.
In future not hard to imagine Indonesia being heavied by an all powerful China to side with it against US and its allies. Suddenly Indonesia not in the way anymore.
Not likely but possible.

[2port]

Very pleased to see the early editions of Sydney Morning Herald had picture of Nimrod MR4 instead of Poseiden - the 195 billion should cover the costs of that.

2P

[A_Van]

Seems to be an adequate and timely reaction of the Australian establishment to what's happening in the world.


However, why China has been mentioned? I always thought that Indonesia was an issue (which is reachable even by famous salt-water crocodiles living in the north), wasn't it?

Nearly 200 mln, great influence (if not control) of the military, islamic state - even 1 of 3 would be enough, but here are 3 of 3.

[Stanwell]

Been to Indonesia, have you, A Van?
A bit of a look around will answer all your questions.

[Arclite01]

I have always thought that AUS and NZ should merge to present a better 'power bloc'. Wins on many levels:

Currency stability
Economic benefits
Cultural synergy
Constitutional Monarchies
Defence Benefits and Projection
Skills Interchange

Only problem is getting AUS and NZ'ers to agree !!

Arc

[A_Van]

Stanwell,

Yes, have been to Indonesia (though as a tourist) and to Australia and NZ as well.

If you mean that Indonesia is very poor and currently cannot be considered as a threat to neighbours, I fully agree. But things are changing, sometimes rapidly and not in favourable directions.
Plus, sometimes tension may rise quickly as a result of not really serious issues, e.g.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/18/world/asia/tension-rises-between-australia-and-indonesia-over-migrant-patrols.html?_r=0

We all know that many arab countries where some 5 years ago Europeans could easily travel through/around just in a rented car, are now dangerous to visit even in groups and not leaving resort zones. To say nothing about those in chaos and civil wars.

[1.3VStall]

Arc,

That's a sh1t idea.

The Northern Hemisphere rugby union teams wouldn't stand a chance against a combined Aussie/Kiwi team!

[Arclite01]

Never even considered sports at this early stage of negotiations

Arc

[Heathrow Harry]

Indonesians are about as anti-Chinese as anyone you could ever meet - every time there's a riot it's round to burnout/ransack/kill any Chinese they can find.............

And of course Indonesia was run by the Dutch when the Japanese came calling

[MightyGem]

I always thought that Indonesia was an issue
Well it seemed to be the main reason for the ADF back in the 80s when I was there on Ex Long Look.

[jumper2011]

Stanwell,
totally in agreement with you, I switched my activity to the civil world and it was a relief to work with business oriented customers, fully pragmatic to adapt to new constraints araising

[flyinkiwi]

Arc, such cooperation already exists on many levels in the Armed Services of both countries.

As for Federating with Australia, it was mooted in the early 20th century but both countries decided not to proceed due to lack of public support. Some things never change it seems.

[a1bill]

"The Northern Hemisphere rugby union teams wouldn't stand a chance against a combined Aussie/Kiwi team!"

and pity help you if we brought the Somans in too.

they was drama when suharto was in power, there was talk of turning it to glass. aus estimates that by 2035 it will be similar military budget as aus, in the meantime we are still giving our old stuff to them, latest was our old hercs..now that it's half a democracy, things have softened and perhaps the 5 powers may become 6 one day.

[Heathrow Harry]

"The Northern Hemisphere rugby union teams wouldn't stand a chance against a combined Aussie/Kiwi team!"

and pity help you if we brought the Somans in too.

they was drama when suharto was in power, there was talk of turning it to glass. aus estimates that by 2035 it will be similar military budget as aus, in the meantime we are still giving our old stuff to them, latest was our old hercs..now that it's half a democracy, things have softened and perhaps the 5 powers may become 6 one day.


Somans? SOMANS??? Don't tell me you've found another b***** Pacific island to steal players from for your national teams................ :uhoh::uhoh:

[a1bill]

yep, we changed the name to protect the guilty..and Fiji too

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