ZJ177 Apache Accident FOB Edinburgh

[Lima Juliet]

EastEnders star Ross Kemp named in Afghan gunship crash probe that's taken eight years - Mirror Online (http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/eastenders-star-ross-kemp-named-7409605)

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/500301/20160202_-_FOI_-_2015-10988_-_Aviation_Statistics_-_BOI_Report_-__Apache_AH1_ZJ_177.pdf

I was close to this in September 2008 and it is a great Human Factors lesson for aircrew to learn from. The UGLY crew were lucky as it could have been so much worse.

LJ

[Could be the last?]

I appreciate that I am not fully aware of the primary flying systems associated with the AH, in particular what info is given to the HP. However, what is of interest is that the BOI makes no reference to undertaking a review of technology that could support the HP in a Degraded Visual Environment.

Obviously putting the date of the incident into context and what equipment etc is available now, compared to then, I would have thought it appropriate to mention something?

[circle kay]

Part 1 Para 1; Local = Z + 4:47 ?

[Evalu8ter]

Could be....

Who'd of thought it? Symbology alone is not enough to fly in DVE.....especially if you're GVE then revert to DVE and have to rely on it. Lucky no-one in MoD would try to order such a system.....and the AH system is, I guess DAL A or B as it is approved for pilotage.

You know what they'll say re Technology Review.....

Some very interesting points; trying to depart downwind with inadequate TM is not a sensible thing to do - not only will you not achieve the required performance but your dust cloud will remain with you longer. Apache crewing - at last some official recognition of what JHC were asking a massively overstretched force to do (shades of Puma circa 2006 perhaps?). Re Ross Kemp, I flew him into a FOB and all of the sentries in the towers were looking in at us (with the camera crews) not out for threats, so, yes, I can see it being a distraction.

[Two's in]

Whatever contribution to the accident the poor technology may have had, it was the basic piloting and CRM errors that caused it. This was a classic "Mate A" flying with "Mate B" scenario where a cockpit democracy was established.

[MPN11]

A very interesting read, which gave me some insight into how things are done these days.

One might add a criticism of the Govt for getting UK Mil involved at an intensity that, it would seem, the AAC was barely capable of sustaining.

[Hangarshuffle]

8 years for a report to become available? Why so? VIP's and TV celebs were always a distraction to RN, not just the Army. Seems to raise pressure, somehow.

[kintyred]

As ever, the ultimate supervision of any aviation activity is done in the cockpit. It doesn't matter how many rules and procedures you create, eventually you're going to have to let someone go and do the job. With only a few hundred hours flying under your belt you're going to make quite a few mistakes.....there but for the grace of God..... Unfortunately experience is expensive but if you're not prepared to pay for experience you'll have to pay the price in other ways!

[deeceethree]

So who is the Ross Kemp person?

[NutLoose]

Read

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Kemp

[deeceethree]

NutLoose, gotcha!

You didn't see the irony or sarcasm in my question? ;)

Ross flipping Kemp - who gives a sh1t?

[MPN11]

Ross flipping Kemp - who gives a sh1t?Many people apparently did, including possibly the crew of ZJ177.