HC2 gadget query

[walter kennedy]

The link is for a picture of a card holder - did one flip it up or remove card to view RDU?
ch2cockpit-2.jpg Photo by grauniad | Photobucket (http://s229.photobucket.com/user/grauniad/media/pprune%20posts/postbox/ch2cockpit-2.jpg.html)

[kintyred]

RDU?......

[BEagle]

No doubt weird Wally is simply fishing for information regarding the display of information from some portable DME system he's convinced was fitted to ZD576 and which was used to lure it to destruction on the Mull of Kintyre....:rolleyes:

RDU normally means 'Remote Display Unit'....

[MG]

It's the compass card; it was fixed and did nothing more than hold the cardboard. In over 1000hrs of flying these, I don't think I looked at it once.

[Cows getting bigger]

It seems like Walter's wheel turns slowly.

9th Oct 2010, 11:55
chinook240
I believe I have posted a piccie of an HC2 cockpit before - here it is with annotation showing where the remote display unit sits (RDU):
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee134/grauniad/HC2withRDU.jpg
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee134/grauniad/HC2withRDU-1.jpg
The more revealing area would have been where the ARS6 unit sat - it is big and there would have been mountings and connectors for it (there was a one off mention of a wiring irregularity referred to once but no one could substantiate this).
I only gave this example just now to show the type of (un)cooperative response one gets with this case.

[Evalu8ter]

MG,
In about 300 hours of flying them with you I don't think I ever looked at the compass let alone the card........:-)

[MG]

Yep, I can confirm that!

[ShyTorque]

Anyone saying that's a compass correction card is part of the big conspiracy. The secret DME display is hidden behind it, next to the photo of the President of the USA.

[MG]

Shhhhhh! Whose side are you on?!

[walter kennedy]

Honestly Beaggles, you are like one of those Japanese soldiers that kept on running around the jungle not wanting to acknowledge that the war was over.
After 21 years is this equipment so taboo that you think it's a figment of someone's imagination? The RDUs were fitted to some later HC2 chinooks - someone wrote that they had seen one in the right position on ZD576 the day before the fateful flight but perhaps he mistook the card holder as they would appear similar in a casual glance.
The early fits had the Control Display Unit (CDU) close to the main equipment – where would one sit/position oneself to be able to read the CDU so as to relay the reading to the pilots?
Could you see it from the jump seat or did you need to move your milk crate to near the rack?

[Just This Once...]

Why do you think we are all party to this big conspiracy? Many of us have operated this piece of equipment and have told you that it was not used in the way you have tried to portray it. Yet you do not believe anyone.

So my question is - why on earth do you post such questions on this forum if you have already decided not to listen to anyone?

[dervish]

Walter IIRC someone said the display was on top of the NHP's coaming, not in the panel. I don't know what photographs exist but check there. You're obviously frustrated at being told the kit doesn't exist but you won't get far constantly sniping at folks.

[Two's in]

Living in a country where a large part of the population believe that dinosaurs were not only around 6,000 years ago, but evolution is a scientific scam job to hide the truth, you lot should be very grateful if a secret DME display is the worst conspiracy you have to deal with...

[Just This Once...]

A very fair comment.

:ok:

[jayteeto]

In the past, I have been less than polite to Walter on the Chinook thread, however, it's a genuine question that deserves an answer without abuse........ Until he ignores genuine answers of course.
Most aircraft require the compass to be calibrated at regular intervals. The adjustments can never be perfect, so a small card is marked with "deviations" or inaccuracies to help the pilot with exact heading measurement. In reality, the one or two degree adjustments are beyond most sky gods, meaning the card is next to useless. It is an airworthiness requirement.
The card has to go somewhere in the cluttered cockpit, in the EC135 it sits on the central windscreen post. There isn't anything behind it.

[NutLoose]

Civi wise it used to be required to adjust /check it at 2 yearly intervals, but is now 3 yearly.. I am qualified to do it but there is a knack to doing it properly and I do not get enough practice, so I leave it to our Avionics bod.

[Wander00]

Did compass swings in JPs and Canberras, but don't recall ever compass swinging an Gnat

[Lordflasheart]

.... so I leave it to our Avionics bod. In one old squadron, our avionics bod held the (hand-held) landing compass for our engines running compass swings. To make life easier he used to shade off the larger errors he was measuring, to more what he thought they ought to be, before hand signalling them to us inside. Din't 'arf give rise to some interesting calculations/corrections til we cottoned on and re-educated him.

Then there was the bod who had a metal plate in his skullbone from an old prang, so when he put his head down to read the landing compass ...... ;)

LFH

[tucumseh]

The subject is a nest of vipers. How many Chinook STFs, SEMs etc were fitted in accordance with the equipment's compass-safe distance specification? In 1994 it had been 2 years since funding was chopped for the routine upkeep of these specs. By 1996 there was no requirement to even consider them in the design, although some of us kept personal copies.

Walter, you have a copy of the CPLS Service Deviation for Mk2 and it tells you precisely where the RDU is. For those too young to remember (!), MoD finally released this SD under FoI in 2010; probably inadvertently, as it had been deleted from every other copy of the RTS provided.

[walter kennedy]

I appologise for perhaps “fishing” too subtly – I am not wanting any operational secrets to be revealed, just where someone would be sitting so as to view the CDU or even the RDU (where fitted) such that they could concentrate on the reading and relay it to the pilots.
The reason is to get the full picture of those last moments – in particular why M.A.L.M. Forbes was where the crash investigators reckoned he was as opposed to his window position – so important for orientation.

[tucumseh]

Walter

Wratten stated MALM Forbes wasn't carrying out his Nav duties. Wg Cdr Pulford thought he was. There is a little spat going on between the current CAS and a more junior retired officer. (A situation which I suspect brings a smile to one, and makes the other kick his cat). If MoD ever answer the question, let us know as I agree it is important.

As you know, a few years ago MoD would never answer such a question. Nowadays they might. After all, on 28.2.12 they admitted that the Mk2 only had a ground training and familiarisation clearance on the day of the crash; due to be renewed within 2 weeks.

[walter kennedy]

The question was put out to aircrew familiar with HC2 Chinooks.
It is a simple seating question - not how something works or what it is used for. So it is not a great secret concerning operational use these days - it could only be seen as sensitive in the context of that crash.
If you give a damn about getting to the bottom of this incident and hopefully getting true justice for that crew please speak up.
If you are afraid to answer an innocuous question about a seating position then this forum is useless for this case.

[tucumseh]

The original question was...

The link is for a picture of a card holder - did one flip it up or remove card to view RDU?

It was pointed out that you already have the Service Deviation providing the information. The question implies you have evidence that the SD is wrong; at least for ZD576. Please say if you have.

If the question is now about where one of the crew was sitting or standing, you've been told where to find the two (or even three, or four) official answers. Which one do you believe? Or, if you prefer, state who lied. Help us narrow any reply down, as I'm sure any aircrew could give lengthy replies on each option, only for you to try to shoot them down for trying to be helpful.

[Just This Once...]

Again, why ask if you don't believe our answers?

The CPLS was not and did not need to be used on that sortie; moreover it is never used in the manner you have imagined.