Easyjet Scholarship for Women... [Archive]

ManUtd1999

31st Jan 2016, 18:26

parkfell

31st Jan 2016, 19:36

Great opportunity for those women who want to fly.
Golfers & horse riders will do especially well.

Tennis , volleyball or other ball sport participants likely to succeed :ok:

LlamaFarmer

31st Jan 2016, 20:44

I am all for increasing the number of females on this side of the flight deck door, and making it a career that women actually consider is important.

Getting that message to them while they're young and keen and letting them know it's a career that is achievable and not "a mans job" is key to that.

Both EZY and BA have been publicising female pilots recently, and that's great, young girls can see the posters and hopefully it will inspire more of them.

Not sure I like the idea of positive discrimination in order to achieve higher numbers though.

I have heard of some instances of female trainees and applicants getting picked over better male applicants, for some kind of apparent publicity or quota reason.

Was told of one female BA FPP trainee who wasn't chopped during training despite numerous failed CPL and IR LSTs, (finally passed them at third series first attempt and second series second attempt respectively), when at least two male FPP trainees were given the chop as soon as they failed their second CPL attempt, (so half the number of failed LSTs as the girl). She's now on the 320 with BA, the two guys I imagine are somewhere like RYR trying to pay their money back to the bank or parents.

ManUtd1999

31st Jan 2016, 21:20

I'd support some form of positive discrimination, maybe a guaranteed number of interviews for women? Its the financial aspect I am against. The idea that you could get a loan if you're female but a man would have to have assets/rich parents is wrong.

Chris the Robot

31st Jan 2016, 21:47

I've heard about this for a while and I think it's bang out of order. As the OP says, any airline which is making those sorts of profits (no doubt with a massive cash pile too) should be at least providing guarantees to the everyone, ideally emulating Aer Lingus and coughing up for the entire thing.

As for the number of women pilots, I think there simply needs to be a measure of the percentage of applicants against the percentage of female applicants. Same for all backgrounds, I believe it's called equal opportunities monitoring.

Some jobs appeal more to certain genders, there are very few male primary school teachers or male midwives (yes they do exist). I don't believe there should be any "positive" discrimination based on gender at all.

No blokes I've come across think this Easyjet offering is actually fair. I'm amazed that any man would actually come out on record and support it.

average-punter

31st Jan 2016, 22:32

I am against "positive" discrimination in any form. EJ are seriously limiting their talent pool to choose from, not because women make worse pilots but simply because far less ladies are interested in the role than men when this is finally realised hopefully all this nonsense will stop.

If they do decide to continue to do this I hope a similar scheme is introduced to aid more males in becoming cabin crew as that is certainly a female dominated role at the airline.

Chesty Morgan

31st Jan 2016, 23:23

The lack of women in the cockpit is of course a big issue...

Why?......

davidicus

1st Feb 2016, 01:17

I want to see more female pilots - but somebody should ask the question - is this scheme in line with the Equality Act 2010? :rolleyes:

Shaft109

1st Feb 2016, 21:05

Not often I react to this kind of news but most of my gripes have been covered by others so will just add -

I've been taught by, flown with and know lots of female pilots. Not one of them anything less than excellent.

I think it's patronising to the women actually and they could be tainted somehow - everyone else has done it the hard way so they should too.

The £600k could have been used in a recruitment / selection type thing under EZ's banner to generate interest but then it's up to them (the candidates) to continue under their own initiative.

Groundloop

2nd Feb 2016, 08:40

There is no £600K. Read the article. It is all spin.

All Easy are doing is offering to underwrite the loan if the applicant does not have the security. Exactly the same as the BA FPP - except restricted to females. It will cost Easy nothing - but generate good PR.

Littlest Hobo

4th Feb 2016, 12:34

Not sure if any of the opinions so far have been from women, but I'll throw my female view into the ring...

I wholeheartedly agree with pretty much everyone who has posted so far - throwing money (or in this case, underwriting loans) at women probably isn't going to encourage more to take up pilot studies. They should be using the money to invest in educating kids (both girls and boys) that careers in aviation are not just for men.

IMO, the bigger barrier is the amount of time needed away from home during studies and then when trying to establish a career, which is very off-putting for (most) women who have aspirations of a family life at some point.

L.H. (speaking as an engineering graduate and PPL student - I love stereotypes!)

BaronVonBarnstormer

4th Feb 2016, 18:23

IMO, the bigger barrier is the amount of time needed away from home during studies and then when trying to establish a career, which is very off-putting for (most) women who have aspirations of a family life at some point.

This goes for in the job afterwards too. Of course balancing a career and kids is tough for any parent, but as a pilot this problem is exasperated.

To give my 2p on the issue; I can understand why EZY are doing this but IMO its the wrong way to go about it.

BA had a similar press stunt thing before last year's FPP in which they wheeled out Carol Vordamnmnmnmnmnmnmn to gee up some interest from women.

The people going through the CTC/FTE/Oxford type schools are predominantly young males from white, middle class families. Maybe a more sensible idea would be to offer funding support to successful candidates so the scheme was accessible to a wider demographic.

BVB

JumboJet1999

11th Feb 2016, 15:00

Girl here- and I think the number in my (very imaginative) username hints my age. . . so just the sort of person EZY are looking to attract- right?

I bumped into a CTC cadet who was on the easyJet MPL scheme a couple months ago and he told me about this- I think it's an absolute disgrace. I've always had suspicions that there might be some discrimination and I'm now actively avoiding this scheme.

Yep, encourage more females. . . well done easyJet. :mad:

Contact Approach

11th Feb 2016, 15:33

Isn't this just pure discrimination? Male or female, what is the difference? We all sing from the same hymn sheet. I'd rather this was pushed out for all cadets on tagged schemes.

C.A

Groundloop

12th Feb 2016, 09:02

Isn't this just pure discrimination?

Yes, but in the PC world of today POSITIVE discrimination is allowed - even actively encouraged. Only NEGATIVE discrimination is illegal.

Littlest Hobo

12th Feb 2016, 10:15

Surely by positively discriminating, they are also automatically negatively discriminating? Or maybe I am being too simplistic...

FlyVeryHigh-

12th Feb 2016, 11:14

I was pondering this myself Littlest Hobo, surely it just a way of wording... or am I missing something? :ugh::}

FLYINGPERCY

13th Feb 2016, 20:48

I completely agree with the increase in targeted publicity, so more women are aware that a flying career is an option for them, should they want it.

The flight deck needs diversity, and that should filter through the airline. You learn so much from people and the greater variety in the FD, the better for everyone. This therefore should include all people from every background e.g. Gender, race, social background.

However, if after all The PR, women are still not applying in large numbers, could it possibly be that they are not attracted to the job? It's a curious profession and certainly does not appeal to many people, when they know the realities of the profession.

I'm not sure how many women discount a career in the FD, because they can't pay the training fees... I imagine it's the same number as the rest of the groups so not sure that this initiative is necessarily best placed to 'attract' women to aviation. As an aside, more financial help should be given to everyone on a 'tagged scheme'.

Maybe more flexible rosters, more support/clarity for people should they wish to start a family, highlighting it's not a 'male job', highlighting more women pilots in senior flight operations roles might be better initiatives?

Wodka

14th Feb 2016, 02:17

Someone should do a Dustin Hofman and apply Tootsie style then expose them after selection!

JumboJet1999

14th Feb 2016, 13:17

The flight deck needs diversity

Why. . . . .?

FLYINGPERCY

15th Feb 2016, 06:55

Why. . . . .?

Jumbo - at first glance I was very surprised you asked that, however on hindsight maybe it does need further explanation.

Flying a commercial plane these days is not hard at all, if you work hard during your TR and stay on top of things. However, working in a team and 'commanding' the aircraft is not easy. I argue that iv become a better pilot by watching and learning from other people, different to me. Also they can tell me when iv done something wrong as I may not be aware. The diversity in the FD makes people approach situations differently, question current practises (so looking for better solutions) and of course different people work differently in a team. All these different people I learn from on a daily basis, which make me a better pilot. Does a football team want 11 goalkeepers? Studies show that people from similar backgrounds approach problems in a similar way. Not good if your looking to develop.

Although a valid question to ask why a FD needs diversity, I feel those that question this, miss the essence of flying commercially today and the realities of the global nature of the job. As I said At the start of this post, commercial flying is not hard but the role/responsibilities of an airline pilot can be. Once you grasp this, you've understood why the flight deck needs diversity.

kirungi1

15th Feb 2016, 08:26

FLYINGPERCY

Studies show that people from similar backgrounds approach problems in a similar way. Not good if your looking to develop.

I've read your post with great interest and I agree with you. Could I borrow your reference for that super quote please? A book reference, would be most appreciated. I wound this though Culturosity Article: What is Cultural Awareness? (http://www.culturosity.com/articles/whatisculturalawareness.htm) Thanks for this and more.

Chesty Morgan

15th Feb 2016, 08:31

What's wrong with having a diverse bunch of males though?!

Why does the flight deck need females?

FLYINGPERCY

15th Feb 2016, 09:08

What's wrong with having a diverse bunch of males though?!

Why does the flight deck need females?

Kurungi1 - yea feel free.

Chesty - the FD needs diversity full stop. So its a balance. But to answer your question - why females? Each different group of people including females bring different things, so I can learn about new situations without having experienced them and DEVELOP. Having previously worked in an office that basically employs mirror images of themselves, I can honestly say the firm was very one dimensional. Lacked good innovative solutions and I knew how they were to solve a problem without them talking. One day a new, very different person (background/female) came into this very male dominate environment. Suffice to say things changed. Why? she came with a different way of approaching things and dare I say it a more measured approach. We know what a group of guys can be like - one upmanship and pushing the boundaries. The new women in the office altered and importantly highlighted the wrong direction the firm was taking, provided a different way of working and so added massive value. I welcome that to the FD. This is one example. I could used a different person.

Notice my example is not flying related, but very relevant to the FD. Kind of pertinent to this discussion?

Btw-as there's been a bit of thread drift, I'm not convinced about the scholarship, just that it's important to highlight a flying career is an option to all.

Chesty Morgan

15th Feb 2016, 09:17

Only females can do that, right?

FLYINGPERCY

15th Feb 2016, 09:27

Only females can do that, right?

Nope. But you've less chance of it happening if your recruiting the same type of people. Which we know happens/happened. It's about maximising the potential of your company when quality labour supply is limited.

Chesty Morgan

15th Feb 2016, 09:37

Company direction and maximising potential are jobs for management.

The thing you're missing is we don't get to choose the way we do things. That's down to management. We get a bunch of SOPs and management tools and we are taught how to use them in a fairly stringent way so it doesn't matter if you're male or female.

There is no pushing of boundaries and there is no one upmanship in the flight deck.

Littlest Hobo

15th Feb 2016, 10:15

We have SOPs and management tools in the (male-dominated) industry I work in too, but the way these are implemented varies somewhat dependent on the backgrounds, personality traits and team dynamic involved.

The real benefits of diversity are highlighted when a situation arises that is not covered by SOP or the SOP is found to be unfit for purpose at that particular moment, for whatever reason. I'm not saying that my male colleagues can't think outside the box too, but it's moments like these that they usually let me take the lead!

But I still don't agree that a women-only scholarship or loan scheme is the answer.

FLYINGPERCY

15th Feb 2016, 10:26

No we don't choose, but we should challenge if we disagree. We won't challenge things if we don't have a different viewpoint. How do we formulate different views - by talking to people with different viewpoints to ours and ways of approaching things. That's what diversity brings -- a different way of approaching things, it's a known fact. That's called progression and development. How many times have you got a notac and interpreted it a different way to someone else?
Also senior management needs to be diverse, to ensure that our SOP's adapt and are challenged too. It's a company wide

By having females on the FD, enhances the above. It's not a solution on its own. You surely can't be arguing against diversity on the FD? Diversity includes everyone, it's just that this thread is looking at women in the FD, hence my specific comments regard the benefit of women in the FD. I'd make the same comments if it was titled: 'the benefit of 40+year old 'male' cadets in the FD'

Lastly - on the oneupmanship we will have to disagree. Btw I work for a company with very strict SOP's.

Now contrary to the above, I rarely post on here. I enjoy reading comments, but thought I'd write my opinion on this topic. This forum has a habit of people going round in circles, arguing their point. So I'm going to call it a day and let others have their say. I think you can see my view.

I look forward to reading other people's views/thoughts which may completely disagree with mine, and will read them with interest.

parkfell

16th Feb 2016, 06:59

The issue is attracting more women onto the flight deck (FD)

It has been suggested that women are not aware of flying as a career.
I am not entirely sure this can be correct, as women probably still account for the majority of cabin crew (CC) , and must therefore be aware that a FD exists.

So what is it that results in such a poor take up from women for the FD?

Identify that and you are part of the way to understanding this issues.

What is interesting, is the increasing number of women going into medicine.
So how has the recruiting process changed to result in this transformation?

Update: I have asked a similar Q to the medics in their section.

Chesty Morgan

16th Feb 2016, 08:02

The issue is attracting more women onto the flight deck (FD)

Again, I have to ask why it's an issue?

gbotley

16th Feb 2016, 08:43

Chesty,

I have to ask why you keep asking :hmm: I don't think there is anything wrong with anyone, be that a man or woman, wanting diversity in his or her workplace. A mixed gender work environment adds something - I don't know what, but it just does. In my current role i'd hate to work in an environment where women were excluded or not encouraged.

Chesty Morgan

16th Feb 2016, 08:51

Ok, woman aren't excluded from the flight deck at all, it is already a mixed gender environment.

Your implication that I think diversity is wrong is wrong.

I keep asking because I want to know why attracting women to the flight deck is an issue. If they wanted to be there they would be.

gbotley

16th Feb 2016, 09:21

Chesty,

Then in that case I apologise if it came across that way it was never the reason for my posting. But you are correct they would be there if they 'could' I suspect.. as I would if I 'could'.. but as finances dictate at this time it's near impossible.

PURPLE PITOT

16th Feb 2016, 09:37

So, having come to the conclusion that it is only about finance, we come back to the original question.

Why just for girls?

gbotley

16th Feb 2016, 09:42

Indeed, full circle. But I wonder if it is just for girls?? As speaking with BBVA of late they seem incredibly reluctant to discuss airline deals but agree they have them in place. I do remember the rumour mill on here churning out EZY funding candidates soon, so perhaps they only wanted to publicise female support at the minute.

Chesty Morgan

16th Feb 2016, 10:13

gbotley, apology accepted.

I'd rather nobody had to shell out six figure sums to get a job. It does prevent ably qualified people getting into the industry, male or female.

Littlest Hobo

16th Feb 2016, 10:33

Why don't more girls apply to pilot training schemes? Can't answer for others but my reasons are as follows:

1) When I was a footloose and fancy free high school leaver, having a good degree behind me seemed like the most important thing for future job prospects, so university trumped flying school. Too sensible!

2) When I left university, no way could I (or my parents) afford to put me through flying school, so a well-paid, stable career was the focus. Too sensible!

3) Having had a well-paid, stable career for a few years I can now afford to put myself through flying school. But now I am also a wife and a mother, so it's not just about me any more. I have a really supportive family but there is no way I would choose to leave them for months at a time to go flying in Florida or NZ, not to mention risk their financial security. And why would I give up a great job, great family and social life and great hobby flying to be at the mercy of the likes of Easyjet? Too sensible!

I've had people say that maybe I'm not passionate about flying and that if I really, REALLY wanted it then I'd have sacrificed all of the above to achieve the dream, but I disagree. I love flying so much that it doesn't matter what I end up flying, the buzz is just being up there. I don't need an airliner, if I get stuck doing 90kts in a tin can for the rest of my days then so be it.

Chesty Morgan

16th Feb 2016, 10:40

So what that boils down to is women are different to men.

1 and 2 can be applied equally to both men and woman but not many blokes want to stay at home and be a mother like you and I think most women would rather be mothers than pilots.

It's genetic, it's imprinted and you can't change it by chucking money at it.

FLYINGPERCY

16th Feb 2016, 11:32

Littlesthobo - Your last post, is in my opinion excellent. You've highlighted the conflict between reality and ambition.

I hope more people read it, and see how you have at each stage you've assessed your options and made a decision, without sacrificing the things you value. I hope in the future a way can be found to accommodate people like you (male and female) so you and others have a viable option to enter the industry with the issues you describe (I have no answers though..) as based on your mature way of approaching things and life experience you'd be a real asset.

Sorry for the thread drift...

gbotley

16th Feb 2016, 11:53

To add my two cents, being in my 20s, it's point 3 i'm apprehensious of which typically is a natural progression in the 'too sensible' lifestyle mentioned in Littlest Hobo's post. I too have progressed to achieve a degree and I feel the next few years are crucial at gaining a shot at aviation. Beyond that, you can attain both through the forces- but that's another debate i'm not wanting here.

Littlest Hobo

16th Feb 2016, 12:16

Are you suggesting men have less common sense haha?
I was trying to be subtle about it, at least! :p;)

Flying is similar to engineering in my point of view. Females are lacking in engineering. Anything loud, noisy, made of metal, not particularly glamorous is not going to tug at the way they are wired.
I have to disagree with that - I have an engineering degree and have worked in the oil and gas and now aviation industries, and I know plenty of women who are both technically minded and glamorous. I know many more women who have an armchair interest in cars, planes, mega structures and other "man" things, but for one reason or another were never encouraged to pursue a technical career. This starts way back at primary school age where the initial career seeds are sewn by parents and teachers, and that's where the focus should be by airlines and engineering companies who what to increase diversity in their workforce. I don't think trying to entice 18 to 20-somethings with a scholarship or loan guarantee is the answer.

Going back to what Chesty Morgan said, bit of a generalisation but most women would rather be mothers than pilots. If a career as a pilot could be balanced with family life in a similar way as a career in, for example, teaching or accountancy (or even engineering) then I'm sure more women would be stepping up to apply... if they didn't have to fork out £100k for the privilege, of course!

Chesty Morgan

16th Feb 2016, 12:30

I agree LH but the trouble is that the nature of the job doesn't allow that...unless females get different treatment - and that is discrimination, which is what we're trying to avoid.

Littlest Hobo

16th Feb 2016, 12:50

Absolutely right, it's not practical to be more accommodating towards working mothers and so it's very doubtful that they will get the floods of female applicants they seem to be looking for right now.

But (cost of training issues aside for a moment) if they put more effort into educating youngsters, maybe in future they'd start getting more applications from female school leaver candidates. That might help balance things out somewhat, at least until maternity leave age!

Reverserbucket

16th Feb 2016, 13:56

I can remember when female applicants for F/O positions in one UK airline were asked at interview when they intended to leave and have a family in the event they were successful? I applaud Littlest Hobo for her honest observations with respect to the appeal of family life. Her comments about education are much the same as those recommended by a recent study in the EU conducted to determine how to attract more women to professional aviation, where it was suggested that flying is just not seen as attractive to most women and that early education is key.

Littlest Hobo makes a very good point where she states that in her case, university trumped flying school. In my experience, there are in fact a fair few females undertaking flying training at ATO's today and over the past several years, yet many lack aptitude and interest by comparison to their male colleagues. The majority I have encountered have not been to university whereas a higher proportion of the men have and I have often got the impression that the girls are not really sure what they are trying to achieve, which is a real pity for those very keen and capable individuals who lack equivalent funding opportunities.

Chris the Robot

16th Feb 2016, 14:50

I fully agree that the recruitment process needs to be monitored to ensure that no candidates are discriminated against on the basis of protected characteristics.

I don't believe that the role should be marketed to people from a certain background, instead, I think that any marketing of the role should simply discuss what the training and the role are like on a day-to-day basis.

The male brain and female brain work differently, that's no doubt a key reason why we see loads of female primary school teachers, yet more male pilots and engineers. Some would say that society conditions people to think in certain ways (i.e. men as pilots and women as cabin crew) however, if people really want the job in question, I think they'll overcome this conditioning.

Surely if the airlines offered training programmes like typical apprenticeships where you pay nothing for your training and are paid a salary, the diversity of applicants will be massively increased. I went through the train driving mandatory assessment process (which I passed) and the diversity of applicants was huge, no doubt because they didn't have to worry about funding.

MattC123

16th Feb 2016, 15:20

A little off topic... But Littlest Hobo, considering the situation you find yourself in at the moment, have you put much thought into the part-time modular route? :) Granted it does come with sacrifices but definitely a viable option.

Reverserbucket

16th Feb 2016, 16:06

Not meaning to answer for Littlest Hobo (used to watch that as a kid btw), but to what end would embarking on a modular course help her enjoy a balanced family life? It's not just the training but the disrupted lifestyle that follows. I've met several female skippers in my career and without exception, they all fit a specific personality profile that would not compliment the balanced family life that Littlest Hobo implies.

Littlest Hobo

17th Feb 2016, 08:50

What Reverserbucket said. I love to learn so would definitely consider further qualifications as time, money and other life factors permit, but my motivation will be to become a better pilot, not a professional one.

Who knows, when I'm 50 maybe I'll have a sudden urge to pursue a flying career?! But that discussion belongs in the "My dream" and "Too Old?" threads and has nothing to do with diversity issues.

redsnail

20th Feb 2016, 20:32

If I may, discrimination occurs where there's an unfair advantage or disadvantage directed at the candidate. If easyJet (or any other airline) changed their selection criteria to accommodate a particular group, then that is discrimination.
All easyJet are doing is under writing a loan.
The number of candidates are 6.

Re women in aviation? I'm one.
The reason why more women don't take up flying as a career (as opposed to being a flight attendant) is varied and complex. It begins at school. No guidance about it being a viable career option and the lack of STEM subjects. Also, the perception that you need to be a maths and physics geek, trust me, you don't. ;) If you do long haul or work for extended periods away from home, the career is quite family unfriendly - especially as it's the woman who has to take time off for her pregnancy.

This can have negative affects on command prospects and so forth. Given it doesn't take long to lose currency etc.

Yes, men are affected with being away from home however, men do not have to take the time off with a pregnancy.

Chesty Morgan

20th Feb 2016, 20:42

All easyjet are doing is underwriting a loan specifically targeted at women in partnership with the British Women Pilots Association.

Are men allowed to apply under this particular initiative? No. Discrimination, sadly.

Also enhanced mentoring for women and additional support! Come on, it's sexist and you know it.

The reason why more women don't take up flying as a career (as opposed to being a flight attendant) is varied and complex. It begins at school. No guidance about it being a viable career option...
Rubbish and the perception that you have to be a maths and physics geek equally applies to men.

LlamaFarmer

20th Feb 2016, 22:41

Rubbish and the perception that you have to be a maths and physics geek equally applies to men.

Yes but "maths and physics" as you say is generally what is required for any sort of STEM job, and that field is predominantly male, with male role models, and therein lies the problem.

Chesty Morgan

20th Feb 2016, 23:17

Does not compute. The ratio of male to female pilots doesn't not equate to the ratio of male to female physics, or maths, students. Why not?

By the way, maths is dominated by female teachers these days. I believe of the science and maths subjects it is only physics which is dominated by male teachers.

Chris the Robot

21st Feb 2016, 10:47

parkfell

22nd Feb 2016, 10:42

redsnail

22nd Feb 2016, 12:39

My grandfather worked for Qantas as an engineer. Seeds were sown when I was 7 or 8 when I was shown around the hangars and sim centre. :ok:

JumboJet1999

22nd Feb 2016, 15:19

I've never understood why careers need these "role models" of sorts. If I was interested in doing something career-wise, I'd base my decision on what the job actually entailed, not on whether the people in the role were male or female.

I totally agree- I mean, I want to be a commercial pilot because I love aeroplanes and the industry etc., not because I look at a female pilot and think 'mmmm, I want to be like her!'.

LlamaFarmer

22nd Feb 2016, 15:20

What would be interesting to know is the percentage of women pilots, including prospective ones, who have family members involved in aviation.
I would suggest that the seed is sown at a fairly early age.

Those who have never thought about it until post secondary education will be a comparatively small percentage of their total.
Unless someone knows differently.............

I cannot think of any female pilots I know who didn't have a family link to the industry.

I can think of a great many male pilots who didn't. Which again demonstrates the real problem, that women do not think it is a possible or viable career option (unless they have someone telling them otherwise, which if they don't have family members in the industry, they won't)

Chesty Morgan

22nd Feb 2016, 15:37

Are you suggesting career advice is withheld from women?

LlamaFarmer

22nd Feb 2016, 15:43

No, I'm suggesting that they aren't always encouraged to consider everything.

I was never given any careers advice regarding being a pilot. The girls certainly weren't, they were almost steered away from things like STEM, particularly engineering, unless it was teaching those subjects.

It's something that they just don't consider a lot of the time though, though nurture and culture more than anything else I think.

Speedoneeighty

24th Feb 2016, 20:14

Being a pilot simply isn't appealing to 99% of women.

ManUtd1999

25th Feb 2016, 17:32

No, I'm suggesting that they aren't always encouraged to consider everything.

Agree 100%. There's not enough promotion of STEM careers in general to women or encouragement to apply. f course if women go looking for the advice it is there but it should be more readily available. Applying to STEM careers shouldn't be seen as a rare thing for a female to do. This is getting better (BA among others have launched ad campaigns targeting women in recent years) but there's still work to be done.

If EZY had launched a huge ad campaign packed full of female-pilot representatives I would whole-heartedly support it. What I disagree with is making a financial sponsorship dependent on gender. The financial barriers to males getting on their MPL are exactly the same as they are for women.

Chris the Robot

25th Feb 2016, 22:20

I believe that it is important that companies advertise their vacancies well, however I can't say I believe in targeted ad campaigns. My take is that if someone has the true passion for a career, they won't need to be told to consider it, they'll just get on with it and apply.

My cousin (who is female) considered a career flying airliners but when she saw the cost she walked away, despite the fact that her parents could have afforded the training. So if the airlines to bring back the Hamble days (but with women allowed to apply) they might get more female pilots.

I don't think the £300 assessment days for a mentored airline gig are a great motivator either, train driving roles are often 100 applications per job and yet still the company pays.

Jwscud

26th Feb 2016, 11:20

Being a pilot simply isn't appealing to 99% of women.

Of course not, too far from the kitchen :ugh:

Around 10% at my mob are ladies. I support pretty much anything that helps us get towards a more balanced flight deck. The raw fact is, as this thread shows, there is a lot of latent sexism in this profession which is probably more off-putting than anything.

Chesty Morgan

26th Feb 2016, 11:32

The raw fact is, as this thread shows, there is a lot of latent sexism in this profession which is probably more off-putting than anything.

As demonstrated by the subject and title of the thread.

Speedoneeighty

27th Feb 2016, 15:52

There are far more women in aviation than men.

Littlest Hobo

28th Feb 2016, 20:32

That may be so, but this campaign is about women in the flight deck rather than the industry in general.

Training Risky

4th Mar 2016, 14:03

What profitable airline would choose pilots on any characreristic other than merit?

What passenger would be pleased to hear over the PA: "Ladies and gents, your captain today was selected by her sex, not merit, but rest assured this airline looks good in the diversity statistics!"

There are simple answers to these questions. We all know what they are...

Elena Ioana

31st Jan 2017, 12:35

EZJ offers an opportunity to support women that are skilled but cannot overcome the financial barrier. I have to say that women have less chance to be given a loan because of social mentality. It doesn't matter were the money come from. It could be family support, schollarship, a loan from the bank or anything else..
Aviation is much more than pursuing a career because the pay is good. You have to pass exams that are mandatory after that, the standards are the same for everybody. The society puts pressure on women who put aviation above oher roles because it could be against the species survival.:) The initiative is like a pressure relief valve.

fenny

1st Feb 2017, 10:28

Yes it's wrong to select a poor female candidate over a competent male, but I really don't think EZY would be willing to throw their £££ away underwriting a loan for someone who they don't think will perform.
Sure it might not be fair, but as a girl I've found the hardest part is finding someone to look up to and I find schemes like this often provide women who I can look up to and talk to about their experiences.

bulldog89

1st Feb 2017, 12:38

I really don't think EZY would be willing to throw their £££ away underwriting a loan for someone who they don't think will perform.

Ask BA about this....
Providing loans to female candidates only you'll never know if there are more skilled male pilots, because there's no point in paying 300£ for a selection if you already know you won't be able to finance your training.

Sure it might not be fair*, but as a girl I've found the hardest part is finding someone to look up to and I find schemes like this often provide women who I can look up to and talk to about their experiences.

*is not fair

Why do you need to ask women about their experiences? The path should be the same for both men and women...

Piloteyez

1st Feb 2017, 13:04

easyJet launches initiative worth £600K a year to help boost female pilot recruits - Pilot Career News (http://www.pilotcareernews.com/easyjet-launches-the-amy-johnson-flying-initiative-to-help-boost-female-pilot-recruits/)

What are people's thoughts on this? I don't doubt that Easyjet have launched it with the best of intentions but it just feels wrong to me.

The lack of women in the cockpit is of course a big issue and one that airlines should be looking to change. However, the obstacles to women participation are no more financial than they are for men. As a potential cadet without access to 85k in funding I am also a hugely under-represented group in aviation these days but I don't see Easyjet offering to guarantee my loan. What about ethnic minorities, I don't see a scholarship for them? Piloting is one of if not the worst industry for social mobility. For a company earning 686m last year could they not have given the same opportunity to everyone like BA/Aer Lingus?

On the other hand, for women it is a fantastic opportunity...

After having spoken to an easyJet recruitment manager, my understanding is everyone, male and female, has a chance to have their loans underwritten by easyJet, if they are a part of the top performing during selection. The female are also compared against each other and then selected. This initiative is taking it from 6% to 12% of their pilots being female. I think if roles were reversed, men would jump at the opportunity and feel completely worthy if successful, especially given women have the same opportunity in the first instance.

fenny

1st Feb 2017, 22:15

Bulldog89, well it's not fair either that when I've been dispatching a/c I've had a captain refuse to speak to me and ask for another dispatcher, but that's life and I'm not gonna kick up a fuss about that.
And whilst I don't need to speak to women it's nice to hear their experiences as personally I find it easier to relate to them, just like I spoke with women that were working in STEM when I chose to study engineering at uni. It's good to hear their experiences of having time away from work to have children, and hear how they feel that their company respects them just as much as their male counterparts.

bulldog89

2nd Feb 2017, 06:43

So you're actually admitting this is not fair. Good, a first step in the right direction.

About the CPT story: I smell bull**** here...anyway if it's true he was just an idiot. Of course you're not "kicking up a fuss" because you can't compare THAT to not be able to access a pilot loan because of your gender. And be aware that this is the official reason, confirmed by the airline, not something we're just supposing.

You don't want to be discriminated (and you aren't) but you want to talk specifically to women pilots...well, this makes a lot of sense...

And now...do you understand that between two pilots, born on the same date, same exam results, same EVERYTHING, easyJet is going to choose the female one just because of her sex? Isn't this the definition of gender discrimination?

stupotk

2nd Feb 2017, 08:12

And whilst I don't need to speak to women it's nice to hear their experiences as personally I find it easier to relate to them, just like I spoke with women that were working in STEM when I chose to study engineering at uni. It's good to hear their experiences of having time away from work to have children, and hear how they feel that their company respects them just as much as their male counterparts.

I am male, but like you also relate to women more easily.

That does not make it appropriate to positively discriminate.

WingtipVortex

17th May 2018, 11:33

Have easyJet quietly removed the exclusivity part of the Amy Johnson scheme to make it available to both females and males?

Incidentally, we seemed to have followed suit with Ryanair and are opening our gates to people trained outside of CAE/ L3, and bonding them rather than extorting them for a TR.

https://easyjet.taleo.net/careersection/2/jobdetail.ftl?job=08156

am111

18th May 2018, 06:19

@WingtipVortex It's not the full sponsorship that the Amy Johnson Iniative was initially set up for, this is just the Type Rating. Reuters article confirms it is open to Male and Female newly qualified pilots but there are only 20 places available.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-easyjet-pilots/easyjet-to-help-small-number-of-pilots-with-cost-of-training-idUKKCN1II1KV?il=0

user2803

19th May 2018, 18:41

Hello everyone.
I am about to send my CV. So could somebody share their experience regarding the simulator session? The interview process etc?
Did you have any simulator preparation before the interview and if so what do you suggest?
Do you guys get any pre-entry evaluation guidelines?
for the sim session regarding speeds to be used etc?
also, what simulator do they use for the interview?
Thanks in advance