Emirates Goes Non-Stop Dubai-Auckland from March

[moneyhoon]

Good news for the Kiwi Boeing drivers.

Emirates Goes Non-Stop Dubai-Auckland from March (http://www.emirates.com/media-centre/emirates-goes-non-stop-dubai-auckland-from-march)

[Buckshot]

This comes only a day or two after QR announced their AKL non-stop.

So two trips of these per month and you've done your hours, right?

Hat, coat...

[A320CaptDav]

The stats say they need about another 25 pilots to sustain ACK..which means another 25 pilots who will be over worked and wanna leave ...which means they need about another 50 pilots ... good luck to EK I thought Panama was suppose to start before they go to ACK

[propaganda]

Open a pilot base in AKL and you'll get your human resource requirement.

[atiuta]

:ugh::ugh::ugh:

It will never happen.

[checcker10]

Be interesting to see layover timings between QR and EK.
Bet EK rob their pilots of even more quality rest.

Can't see PTY starting anytime soon now with this announced. Ain't got the pilots

[White Knight]

Except that there are 51 new joiners already this year so far... Not sure how many have left but the new guys/gals are still coming!

[Wizofoz]

Plus it means we have two route, Panama and Auckland, that can ONLY be served by the 200LR- of which we only have 10 and which are starting to get long in the tooth.

We could use a few more.

WK- yeah, now they just have to be trained.....

Problem is, management will now say "Problem solved", when this is clearly a short-term band aid solution.

[Enos]

This could mean EK can drop a OZ AKL flight to free up another slot in OZ.

The timings for NZ travellers to Australia have never been that great.

Good news for all who want to get down to that part of the world.

[B-HKD]

Plus it means we have two route, Panama and Auckland, that can ONLY be served by the 200LR- of which we only have 10 and which are starting to get long in the tooth.

We could use a few more.

WK- yeah, now they just have to be trained.....

Problem is, management will now say "Problem solved", when this is clearly a short-term band aid solution.

Has there been any talk of increasing the MTOW to 347,451kg (max available) from the current 343t? And re-activating the single AUX tank on the 4-5 aircraft fitted with the plumbing?

There were some industry rumors regarding a follow up EK -200LR oder. The B777's coming off the line this year will be burning close to 2% less than aircraft from two years ago. GE90-110/5 PiP, flush windows, new slats, new fairings, no tail skid etc.

[harry the cod]

Wizofoz

Reminds me of when the father took his son to the zoo and as they walked past the elephants, his son turned and asked:

'Dad, what's that big long thing between it's legs?'

His Dad replied 'it's a penis son, surely you'd know that at your age. Why do you ask?'

'Well, I was here last week with Mum and when I asked her, she stuttered..oh..oh..it's nothing son...nothing at all!'

'Son', his Dad responded, 'you have to remember.....your mother's been spoilt!'

Well, I think you've been spoilt too. A B757 or 747-400 is long in the tooth but a B777LR? :hmm:

Harry

[B-HKD]

Wizofoz

Reminds me of when the father took his son to the zoo and as they walked past the elephants, his son turned and asked:

'Dad, what's that big long thing between it's legs?'

His Dad replied 'it's a penis son, surely you'd know that at your age. Why do you ask?'

'Well, I was here last week with Mum and when I asked her, she stuttered..oh..oh..it's nothing son...nothing at all!'

'Son', his Dad responded, 'you have to remember.....your mother's been spoilt!'

Well, I think you've been spoilt too. A B757 or 747-400 is long in the tooth but a B777LR? :hmm:

Harry

Harry, I believe Wiz meant that the 10 strong -200LR fleet is going to be stretched thin with regards to covering its schedule.

Planned -200LR flying in Summer 16'

EK219/220 Orlando (2 aircraft)
EK227/228 Seattle (2 aircraft)
EK251/252 Panama City (2 aircraft)
EK326/327 Yinchuan and Zhengzhou
EK448/449 Auckland (2 aircraft)

In addition to Haneda, Seychelles and Mumbai + the usual -300ER subs here and there.

EK227/8 (SEA) and EK219/220 (MCO) have already been operated with the -300ER when demand picks up. I assume the former will be the first to switch to -300ER permanently if the fleet requirements dictate it.

I also would not be surprised if GRU/GIG went back to the -200LR, considering the current state of the Brazilian economy. Some very lightly loaded -300ERs flying to GRU at the moment, I hear.

[A320CaptDav]

Sad to say but looks like the 777 Ops is nearly a sh*t show , with so much flying and min rest I'm sure everyone is hit hard and health is taking a toll. I wonder if you guys can still 'perform' at night? At this rate I would be drained

[Wizofoz]

Well, I think you've been spoilt too. A B757 or 747-400 is long in the tooth but a B777LR?

Hehe- I take your point, Harry- but the LRs have always done big hours, and are among the older members of the fleet. We are shortly going to start retiring the early ERs- there seems to be no such renewal plans for the LRs, while we keep finding new things to do with them.

[Enos]

The route could be planned with the 787 in mind or dare i say it the 350 sometime in the near future?

[halas]

...hopefully 350 :E

More interesting will be the layover.
It appears the aircraft will sit for ten hours prior to the return sector.
Does this mean we will get a 34hr layover?!?!?:uhoh::confused::bored::eek:

halas

[Monarch Man]

You can bet it'll be a 34hr layover, initially, that is until the ASR Avalanche begins.
Yet another trip to press 2, on the basis of self preservation, and with luck the A350 will come along and gobble it up, but reading between the lines Boeing will be offering new build 200LR's for a song me thinks.
Oh joy, Keep recovering.

[Hook]

The flight will be operated by A6-ERE. The last remaining 345. Never payload restricted .... if a seat's available, you'll get on :ok:

[BYMONEK]

MM

I think you'll be right in the layover timings but personally that would work better. 2 rests, one after the duty, one before. 58 hours would create more jet lag issues back in Dubai. Only good I guess if you're a Kiwi and want time down route.

Whatever they decide, it's not the pairing on it's own that causes the fatigue, it's the cumulative effect of the overall months work...and the months before that too!

[bvcu]

Aux tank....... bit of a problem, not certified so never used due to lack of nitrogen inerting allegedly , so doesn't have the advertised range as the longest range airliner

[nolimitholdem]

Apparently EK asked Boeing if they could convert the aux tanks back for use, and Boeing said no eff'ing way, so hence the PTY launch is on hold...oops...probably the same thing will hold up the direct AKL. Maybe if the left hand talked to the right hand? hahah!

Besides, hasn't Air India already stolen the mantle of "longest flight" or whatever with DEL-SFO? Unlike EK, they're actually...doing it. So who gives a ****?

[Monarch Man]

so hence the PTY launch is on hold...oops...probably the same thing will hold up the direct AKL. Maybe if the left hand talked to the right hand? hahah!

Heard a similar story, something along the lines of "hey commercial, whats this PTY flight all about?"
"Yeah Ops, its gonna be great, the worlds longest flight!"
"But commercial, we cant do it"
"Yes we can (jabbing and pointing at the 200LR brochure with specs)"
"Um commercial, yes thats all well and good, but we cant do it"
"Yes we can"
"No we can't"
"Yes we can!"
"no we can't"
"Ok Mr negative Ops, why not?"
"because Mr Blue sky thinking commercial, our 777-200LR's don't have AUX tanks in them so don't have the range, thats why"
"What?"
"You heard me, no tanks no PTY"
"What kind of stupid idiots decided to remove the AUX tanks?"
"You guys commercial, you told us to take them out"
"Don't worry Ops, we wont blame you, we'll blame Boeing or maybe those negative pilots on PPrune for ruining our recruiting plans, would you like a Latte'? Costa gives Platinum discount here"


:ugh::hmm:

[Schnowzer]

What? A flaw in the mighty 777? Don't worry we can send an A380 to follow it with the bags on!😉

[glofish]

For once i agree. There are plenty of them over at maintenance and a few more at Mirdif.
Simply use the shower tank with fuel

[B-HKD]

Aux tank....... bit of a problem, not certified so never used due to lack of nitrogen inerting allegedly , so doesn't have the advertised range as the longest range airliner

Rubbish :ugh:

The very same AUX tank design has been in continuous service with QF since 2003. Fitted in each of their 6 B747-400ER's.

Nitrogen inerting systems are only required when the fuel tank is sitting over a heat source. Hence on most Boeing aircraft including the B777, the center tank must now be fitted with a nitrogen inerting system as the pack system beneath the center tank represents the heat source.

Removing the AUX tank was a good decision as it eats up pallet space. And considering no EK -200LR flight to date required the AUX tank, removing it made perfect sense. Only 4 or 5 of the 10 aircraft were purchased with 1 AUX tank option and the the relevant plumbing and fixtures to accommodate the tank. (Boeing offers 1 and 3 AUX tank options on the -200LR).

There is absolutely nothing preventing engineering from re-fitting said AUX tanks. When fuel volume limited, said AUX tank increases the range by ~200nm, at a constant ZFW.

The 10 -200LR are still at 343,369kgs MTOW. With a quick phone call and wire transfer to Boeing, this can become 347,451kgs. The freighters were purchased with the highest MTOW option.

PTY was delayed due to the the late approval of the codeshare agreement with Copa. This route would never have launched without it.

[bvcu]

any evidence the aux tanks were ever certified ? My understanding is they weren't and is a Boeing issue ? Anyone know of any in use on 777LR. ? 747 isn't relevant as a lot of other Boeing and Airbus types have the same tanks in the past .

[B-HKD]

any evidence the aux tanks were ever certified ? My understanding is they weren't and is a Boeing issue ? Anyone know of any in use on 777LR. ? 747 isn't relevant as a lot of other Boeing and Airbus types have the same tanks in the past .

Seriously? I hope the B777 FAA Type Certificate Data Sheet is enough "evidence"

http://i63.tinypic.com/2aaampl.png

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/1db991034761122686257ef5006810c0/$FILE/T00001SE_Rev38.pdf

Page 21, Note: 10 (Just in case you think my screenshot is doctored :E)

Boeing has from day one, offered and continues to offer 1, 2 or 3 optional AUX tanks for the -200LR in its official B777 customer options catalogue.

EK is to date the only operator that purchased the the AUX tank option on the -200LR (1 AUX tank for EK). They knew what the aircraft was capable of from day one, and hence did not purchase the highest MTOW and removed the AUX tank upon delivery. No route to date has required the additional fuel volume or MTOW, and keeping the AUX tank in the hold all these years would have been countless wasted cargo space.

With a upcoming AKL launch they can if need be increase MTOW (on all 10), and re-fit the single AUX tank to the frames that were originally delivered with the tank and have the relevant plumbing (not retrofittable).

[fatbus]

You have to realize you are talking to EK pilots. They know everything there is to know about operating an airline . They claim EK ( the airline) has no idea what they are doing, including the statis of the current fleet

[notapilot15]

@B-HKD

Your statement

"EK is to date the only operator that purchased the the AUX tank option on the -200LR"

is not true.

Air India also purchased 4 x 200LRs with AUX tanks. VT-ALF/G/H and VT-ALE(current EY A6-LRE).

Don't know if EY kept the aux tank or not, but at least 3x200LRs STILL have aux tanks.

Originally VT-ALD intended to be the worlds first longest range aircraft, but certification delays changed plans and VT-ALD was delivered without aux tank.

[B-HKD]

@B-HKD

Your statement

"EK is to date the only operator that purchased the the AUX tank option on the -200LR"

is not true.

Air India also purchased 4 x 200LRs with AUX tanks. VT-ALF/G/H and VT-ALE(current EY A6-LRE).

Don't know if EY kept the aux tank or not, but at least 3x200LRs STILL have aux tanks.

Originally VT-ALD intended to be the worlds first longest range aircraft, but certification delays changed plans and VT-ALD was delivered without aux tank.

Forgot about AI and their infamous -200LR's

However, you also forgot about VT-ALA/B/C/D.

This official Air India tender lists the equipment for all 4 and shows the single AUX tank fitted.

http://mmd.airindia.co.in/aimmd/tender/ANNEXURE%20I%20-%20B777-200LR%20%20aircraft%20specifications.pdf

So to clear it up all AI -200LR were delivered with AUX tanks?

Not only did those idiots never put the aircraft to use, let alone the AUX tanks, but they also ordered the small aft cargo door option. Hence, even if EY removed the tank after buying the 5 ex-AI aircraft, they cannot carry pallets in the aft cargo hold.

[notapilot15]

Well they started using 200LRs on DEL-SFO-DEL and LOADS are REAL GREAT.

Unlike EK, other commercial airlines carry more HUMANS than DRY FRUITS, so small aft cargo door is not a major issue.

They didn't throw away the AUX tanks and even if they removed, they are skilled enough to put it back.

Of course EK can operate 200LRs to anywhere, just keep PLF lower than 30%, which is not out of the norm.

[falconeasydriver]

notapilot15, I don't think I'd have the courage to hold Air India up as a shining example of how an airline should be run, just saying.

[fatbus]

And maintain 777/787

[B-HKD]

notapilot15,

Are you high?

Air India seat 238 in their 3 -200LR's.

That is the lowest density of any carrier operating the aircraft. They have been operating with empty or 1 seat booked in the F cabin on average, 30-35% in J, and 50-60% in Y and that with rubbish yields.

Supposedly they will begin (finally) removing the F cabin and re-configuring to a more commercially viable seat count of 298.

For comparison, EK seat 266, DL 297, AC 301 (new configuration).

Furthermore AI does not have approval to operate in the polar region, and that won't change anytime soon (they most likely never go through the regulatory process) and hence must take a slight detour (longer).

The flight does not even operate daily.

Do you seriously believe high yielding pax are going to choose that excuse of a airline over EK? Especially on the lucrative SFO-BLR segment?

Nobody in their right mind (except yourself of course) would choose AI's 3x week SFO-DEL-BLR (DEL-BLR is on a A321....) over EK's offering. Which is precisely why EK operates a A380 loaded to the gills.

Like it or not, EK is the worlds largest operator of the B777 and the only one to have operated every derivative, and that for nearly 20 years. They know a thing or two about operating the aircraft.

Hate on EK all you want, just don't start inventing fairy tales.

[ExDubai]

And maintain 777/787
Come on, AI is the only Airline which is able to sell remaining screws on EBay :}

[notapilot15]

I am not sayin AI is a shining star, but at least it is not a sixth freedom carrier stealing others passengers.

AI is in current state because of capacity dumping by ME3.

@b-hkd

Are you complaining for AI 77Ls not being cattle carriers like others? I wouldn't change their 77L Y seat.

For you to claim AI F has 25% LF is hypocritical. It has daily total F capacity of 24 seats to US and EU combined (8xSFO,4xORD,4xJFK,4xEWR,4xLHR).

SFO route is more than 80% booked two months out.

Unlike US and EU carriers which retreat on the onset of ME3 presence, Indian carriers fight back, a major rub for EK.

AI not maintaining their planes is a EK paid PR stunt.

Guess what, EY bought 5 x AI 77Ls and Saudi bought 2 x AI 17 year old A332s, while EK A332s are going to scrap yard.

Why aren't your own neighbors not buying WELL maintained EK planes???

[notapilot15]

Regulator rejected polar route? This kind of crap never happens in the sandpit.

[B-HKD]

I am not sayin AI is a shining star, but at least it is not a sixth freedom carrier stealing others passengers. AI is in current state because of capacity dumping by ME3.

Ah of course! Lets just ignore the elephant in the room. Years and years of mismanagement.


Are you complaining for AI 77Ls not being cattle carriers like others? I wouldn't change their 77L Y seat.

Complaining? I am telling you why the airline has no clue what they are doing plain and simple. AI can only make money filling its aircraft up with low yielding pax in cattle class. Operating a -200LR in 3 classes in the lowest density in the industry is a reflection of their poor decision making and hence endless loss making. DEL-SFO-DEL is no doubt also a loss maker and will continue to be.




AI not maintaining their planes is a EK paid PR stunt.

Guess what, EY bought 5 x AI 77Ls and Saudi bought 2 x AI 17 year old A332s, while EK A332s are going to scrap yard.

Why aren't your own neighbors not buying WELL maintained EK planes???

The two A332s you mentioned were both leased aircraft. MSN353 and MSN362.

Neither were delivered new to AI. The former was operated by 13 operators the latter by 8.

Neither of them are owned by Saudia. In fact, they both went into storage for 6 months before being picked up by Turkish operator Onur Air. Who is operating them on a WET LEASE on behalf of Saudia. So please do yourself a favor and stop spreading bull****.

In addition, of the 14 former EK A332's, at least 5 have found new operators. EK could care less if most of these find a new home as they were mostly leased. They got their money's worth out of every single one of these frames as for years they represented the backbone of the fleet. As they spent a considerable amount of time in their last few years of service doing regional flying, they are mostly very high on cycles and thus more attractive second hand options exist in the market. When a lessee returns a aircraft to the lessor, it has to be returned in a contractually pre-determined condition/state. No issues here for EK.

This is how Air India maintains its aircraft by the way....


http://i2.wp.com/www.bangaloreaviation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/VT-ALH_Maharashtra_Cannibalised_Air_India_Boeing_777-200LR_2.jpg

http://i0.wp.com/www.bangaloreaviation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/VT-ALH_Maharashtra_Cannibalised_Air_India_Boeing_777-200LR_3.jpg

http://i1.wp.com/www.bangaloreaviation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/VT-ALH_Maharashtra_Cannibalised_Air_India_Boeing_777-200LR_1.jpg

VT-ALH sat like this for 4 years at BOM, while being cannibalized for spare parts to support the rest of the AI B77L fleet. Improperly stored in hot/humid/polluted air for years and years aka CORROSION :D


On and when you do choose to fly AI's B777s in First Class, this is the seat that awaits you.

http://i64.tinypic.com/2l8yz3r.png

The stain is a nice touch of India :E

[Sheikh Your Bootie]

Notapilot15

I wasn't aware airlines "Owned" passengers. So how EK be stealing passengers??

You check prices on any given route that EK flies on, it is rarely, I mean serious rarely anywhere near the cheapest. So let put this dumping tosh to bed habibi.

AI, is a mess, I have flown with Ex AI flight deck at EK, the stories they tell, are a very sad tale of a once great airline, full of corruption and political interference.

EK has quite clearly stated it welcomes competition, no rub.

EK's 330's are owned by leasing companies, the aircraft are returned as white tails at the end of service. What leasing co's do with the aircraft is up to them. Some have flown on, some haven't. Our neighbours, like EK buy new aircraft habibi.

SyB :zzz:

[ExDubai]

Comparing EK maintenance with AI maintenence........ ROFL

[notapilot15]

@b-hkd

Does EK or any other airline wash their mothballed frames daily??? Particularly with desalinated water.

@ExDubai

When you say EK MX, Are you taking about the United Nations of outcasted airline mechanics (or) Ameco/HAECO Buy One Get One specials???

Why did AI Engineering got the contract to build and maintain MRO facility at DXC?

Sure EK has multi billion $$$ PR budget, doesn't me it can change facts.

[ExDubai]

@Notapilot15

I left EK years ago, so don't care about the marketing budget. But I do have strong concerns about the safety culture in the Indian aviation industry. There is a reason why AI is on the "unofficial NoFly list" of 99.99% of my colleagues.

[notapilot15]

@ExDubai

Are you suggesting GCAA safety culture is superior to others???

Aviation regulators in large poor countries may not be able to keep up with the growth, what is the excuse for rich city countries.

India domestic market is growing at 20+%. Your friends may not be flying, but millions are.

[LHR Rain]

EK has a safety culture the works it's entire work force to the bone with the vast majority paid poverty wages. Then the airline compares itself to other airlines?

[Enos]

Hi notapilot15


I have flown for both AI and EK, you are comparing apples with oranges.

Passengers choose to fly with EK they choose NOT to or NEVER AGAIN with AI

Your comments however misinformed and emotional at times are amusing so please keep them coming.

Back to the thread, I would like to bid for AKL (fly some stolen passengers down there) but I can't find it in the new CRS bidding any help would be appreciated.

Enos

[notapilot15]

Enos

Text book grooming speech. May be it worked well on Indians but not on us. Look what Richard Anderson did to 777 resale value, without any government help. $130 Million 77W wouldn't be worth more than $30 Million. Lets see who will finance/lease all those orders.

Now with Iran orders flowing, Airbus wouldn't give a damn about legacy ME3.

What % EK's premium traffic is revenue based. Filling with non-rev government and award travel just to show LFs is not going to work forever.

How many years do you think other arm length concerns take losses for EK?
How many more years do you think neighboring countries will finance?

Brotherly love is not forever.

[scandistralian]

Does anyone know why the AKL pairings are not yet in the CRS?

[Calmcavok]

Email pilot bid help?

[aeropix]

"Does anyone know why the AKL pairings are not yet in the CRS?"

Perhaps due to "lack of code-share partners"?:eek:

[notapilot15]

aeropix

Codeshares to Antarctica!

[lospilotos]

Does anyone know why the AKL pairings are not yet in the CRS?

According to the March bid help document, AKL will not be available for bidding in March.

[halas]

Yet l can buy a ticket for it on emirates.com......

halas

[notapilot15]

What are the hurdles EK facing from 1) Refitting aux tanks and 2) MTOW upgrade paperwork.

As we have been told EK has world class MX/MRO facilities, and if they want they can design and build B777 and A380 on their own. They are purchasing from other peasants out of charity. So #1 should be easy peasy lemon squeezy.

And we also have been told it is a profitable enterprise and loaded with cash, so Boeing CEO should be delivering the upgrade documents personally.

Unless they used the tanks to transport something very important.

[lospilotos]

Yet l can buy a ticket for it on emirates.com......

halas

Don't know if you were referring to my comment about not available for bidding, but just to clarify:

The flights will depart (so far), we are just not able to bid for them as the pairing is not/will not be loaded into the CRS.

[Aluminium shuffler]

@ExDubai

Are you suggesting GCAA safety culture is superior to others???

Aviation regulators in large poor countries may not be able to keep up with the growth, what is the excuse for rich city countries.

India domestic market is growing at 20+%. Your friends may not be flying, but millions are.

It's certainly superior to India's. At least EK's pilots and engineers all hold GENUINE licences.

[fliion]

On the CRS bidding interface, under "March and General Bidding Tips"- note 5 - it explains why AKL was left out of bid package.

[notapilot15]

Aluminium Shuffler

So a fake CAA with genuine licences is better than a sloppy CAA with fake licenses?

IMHO any CAA without employee representation (not the ability to form union, so save your keystrokes, but the ability to express themselves freely to the oversight authority) shouldn't even be rated by ICAO. So GCAA is like a NR movie, no one knows it is safe or not.

ICAO was formed when aviation was mostly state owned and an elite industry and all aviation employees were well represented. But who thought slavery will make its way to modern day aviation.

What does ICAO audit? CAA's documentation. Going by the quality of English it probably copied from the best in the world, hence the 99% score. Nothing to do with reality on the ground.

With ONE major airport and 20 miles of airspace, what makes them experts in overseeing complex aviation systems?

UAE almost became head of ICAO, that was cringe worthy moment for world aviation.

Couple of years back United pilots complained to FAA on FTL exceptions, FAA fined UA last year. Does it make the system unsafe, no it makes system open and safe. That is how democracies handle issues, by discussing publicly.

Similarly AI crew gave written complaints to their CAA almost everyday about AI's Australian tag flights. Both CAA and Airline couldn't take anymore and dropped the tags.

How many times EK pilots successful got GCAA rule against EK?

[Aluminium shuffler]

I don't dispute your comparisons with the CAA or FAA, but comparisons with India are ridiculous. Nothing in that country is free from endemic corruption, from the authorities and self-certified "professionals" alike, which is why it is the mess that it is. Make the criticisms you wish, but don't fluff up IA or India, because to say they're better costs you all of your credibility.

[notapilot15]

I compare because both are third world, one masking as advanced western entity.

These third world countries with sloppy CAAs are main resource pools for ME3 aviation. Roadkill doesn't turn into filet mignon with chef's touch.

Same self-certified fake license holder doesn't turn into cream of the crop as soon as GCAA issues license.

BTT, where are those aux tanks?

[ruserious]

Dubai, the nicest city in India :}:}