LOA for Scotland

[Phoney Tony]

After the next Scotish elections it is very likely that the Scottish Parliament will add additional income tax to its residents. Thus servicemen in Scotland will be worse off than those south of the border.

How will the MoD ensure our servicemen are not disadvantaged?

[scr1]

What makes you say that??

Swinney to outline Scottish budget plans for 2016/17 - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-35106701)

[Just This Once...]

The answer for the moment is that the MoD are still in discussions regarding how service personel will be treated. There are similar discussions with other public sectors.

I understand that it will make zero difference to service personnel posted to Scotland as there is an established precedent of where we theoretically live for tax purposes. For those with direct links to Scotland (place of birth, established family links, home owner, spouse liable for Scotish taxation etc etc) things are less clear but the rumours out of MoD is that the status quo will endure. It has been rather quiet on spouses though.

[chinook240]

I don't know the answer to this, but do serviceman based in Scotland benefit from local financial arrangements such as free university fees, prescription charges?

[Phoney Tony]

I think it would be suicide for current finance minister to increase taxes prior to elections planned for next year. The bad news normally comes early in a new parliament.

What about contractors supporting MoD?

I remember paying council tax in Scotland when my friends south of the border did not.

Chinook240. I believe servicemen do benefit as you suggested. This just adds to the problem.

[newt]

Swinney will change nothing before the Scottish elections but watch this space after that! If he goes for a full 10p increase on top of the standard rate it will mean thousands of pounds extra tax for those earning up to the higher rate level! I suspect there will be a mass exodus from Scotland and LOA will be necessary for those in the Armed Forces.

[Sandy Parts]

What happens if any of the 'scot tax' bands/rates are lowered? Will HM Govt reduce pay for HM Forces in Scotland - I doubt it. Therefore, I'd predict a small 'Scotland weighting' like the one for London (if needed). That way it can be adjusted each year when the allowances are set.

[tmmorris]

Being provocative here but...

If it's true that those posted to Scotland benefit from the higher spending on public services there - free prescriptions, university have already been mentioned - then why shouldn't they pay the higher taxes these require?

[Union Jack]

LOA for Scotland

Possibly technically correct were this to apply to Northern Ireland, but not for Scotland except in the Hebrides, Orkney and Shetland .....:rolleyes:

Jack

[Tourist]

If it's true that those posted to Scotland benefit from the higher spending on public services there - free prescriptions, university have already been mentioned - then why shouldn't they pay the higher taxes these require?



Perhaps because the average serviceman will benefit from neither free university or free prescriptions?


These things are of benefit in the long term, not the short term. Most servicemen will not be there long enough to benefit.


You could equally argue that the people based in London get all the advantages of living in the capital, so why do they get extra?

[melmothtw]

Perhaps because the average serviceman will benefit from neither free university or free prescriptions?


These things are of benefit in the long term, not the short term. Most servicemen will not be there long enough to benefit.


You could equally argue that the people based in London get all the advantages of living in the capital, so why do they get extra?

The point of taxation is that you don't get to pick and chose which 'benefits' you pay for and which you don't. I don't benefit from the Royal Family, but I still have to pay for the damned thing.

[Mil-26Man]

Because servicemen don't have dependants who might benefit from free higher education and/or prescription charges, do they Tourist?

Also, "advantages of living in London"? You must be referring to the overpriced everything, the high crime rates, and daily commutes from hell. I'm guessing you don't live in London.

[newt]

The real point is that Scotland is still part of the United Kingdom! So why should they be allowed to vary tax! They already get the extra payments in the Barnet Formula! Cameron should be much firmer in handling this. After all the result of the referendum clearly showed that the majority of those living in Scotland want to stay in the Union:ugh:

[melmothtw]

Which is why they're still in the union, Newt. The result of the Scottish elections however gave the SNP the mandate to push for tax varying powers, which is what they got. For better or worse, it's called democracy.

[The Old Fat One]

^^

Absolutely. And so is the right to choose your tax domicile, if you are lucky enough to have a potential "foot in both camps".

There are a great many wealthy people in Scotland, who can, with a few mouse clicks, be tax domiciled in England, even - and perhaps especially - if Scotland becomes independent.

The movers and shakers in Scotland are well aware of that and will tread very carefully before doing something which will invoke "the law of unintended consequences".

[perthsaint]

^^ You are of course assuming that an independent Scotland will have a concept of domicile, will allow domicile to determine taxation and will allow people to choose their domicile.

The idea that people can change their tax domicile with a few mouse clicks is very amusing.

[Sandy Parts]

The determination of taxable status is due to 'main residence'. If I should have 2 properties (owned or not), 1 in Scotland and 1 in England, Wales or N.Ireland, I can declare the non-Scotland property as my main residence. I would need to 'reside' in the non-Scotland address for 1 day more than the Scottish address to make this so. Details are here - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/scottish-rate-of-income-tax-technical-guidance-on-scottish-taxpayer-status/scottish-rate-of-income-tax-technical-guidance-on-scottish-taxpayer-status

[Just This Once...]

Sandy, for the military the situation is a lot less clear. I have yet to see the guidance promised in the link you have provided and there is not much of the year left.

[Tourist]

Also, "advantages of living in London"? You must be referring to the overpriced everything, the high crime rates, and daily commutes from hell. I'm guessing you don't live in London.

Living in a capital city has many advantages.
London is my idea of hell on balance (can't surf!), however most Londoners would not consider living anywhere else and you have to be obtuse to be unable to think of any big city pluses..

A very quick Google will show you that, contrary to the hysteria about sponging scots, Londoners have more spent on them per person than anybody else in the country. This despite the obvious economies of scale. They also have all the good shows, museums, concerts etc.

[Tourist]

The point of taxation is that you don't get to pick and chose which 'benefits' you pay for and which you don't. I don't benefit from the Royal Family, but I still have to pay for the damned thing.

Yes you do benefit.

Even the most cursory Google will find you a cost benefit calculation for the royal family in terms of revenue from tourism etc

[JEMster]

Just This Once,

A DIN was issued last month providing military specific advice. If you work and live in Scotland then you are a Scottish taxpayer. If you work in Scotland but your main place of residence is outside Scotland, e.g. you are serving unaccompanied, your family is living outside Scotland and you return home at weekends, then you not a Scottish taxpayer (even if you spend more nights during the year in Scotland). HMRC don't recognise being posted against your will to Scotland as a valid reason for not being treated the same for tax purposes as any other Scottish resident.

[Just This Once...]

TVM - does a copy exist outside the DII bubble?

I am slightly surprised at the HMRC stance though as we do not tend to pay income tax to any other country when we are posted there. I had heard that they were trying to avoid any potential issues with the EU. It also conflicts with other legislation and our ability to claim a primary residence that we are unable to live in.

[alfred_the_great]

I rather get the feeling - speaking to Faslane guys - is that "costs will lie where they fall", especially given that the non-Scottish sailors can claim their England/Wales/NI house as their main home and thus avoid the entire unpleasantness.

Remember, you never dip out, you just might not dip in.

[The Old Fat One]

^^ You are of course assuming that an independent Scotland will have a concept of domicile, will allow domicile to determine taxation and will allow people to choose their domicile.

The idea that people can change their tax domicile with a few mouse clicks is very amusing.

Actually (and interestingly) no I'm not. I have been saying for quite a while the actual reverse...and you can find examples of exactly what you are implying in history, so you are totally right. In fact a newly formed state may pretty much do exactly what it wants in regards pretty much anything.

Unfortunately there is a flaw in your cunning plan (the one where you think you'll be able to stop people removing their wealth, in part at least daawn saaff ... actually two flaws, but first things first).

Scotland won't go independent overnight. Had the last referendum been positive, there would have been a lead-in period of 18 months. Oceans of time for the financially savvy and capable to make whatever arrangements they so wish.

But it's irrelevant, since an independent Scotland would observe the international norms of tax domicile, as do well over 100 other nation states (ah...seems I do know a little about the subject). To do otherwise would mark Scotland out as a third world dictatorship...I can't see the jocks going for that, can you?

As to the ease of changing your tax domicile, well assuming you have a legitimate residential address in two countries it really is a piece of wee wee. Sorry to burst your bubble there chum; I know it don't sit well with the jocks...since I live and work with them everyday.

this from the torygraph earlier this year...the BBC ran a similar piece just last week, but I cannot be arsed to search for it.

Wealthy Scots 'considering fleeing high SNP taxes' - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/11373197/Wealthy-Scots-considering-fleeing-high-SNP-taxes.html)

[The Old Fat One]

Somewhat more amusingly, the idea of no taxation without representation goes to the heart of democracy and is embedded in the civil society or every mature democratic nation on earth (one assumes an independent Scotland would wish to aspire to join this club?).

Or put another way...

"Taxes are what we pay for civilized society.'' — Oliver Wendell Holmes

In short there is a symbiotic and binding relationship between the tax payer and the tax collecting state.

Which is a posh way of saying from 1 April 2016, I'm as Scottish as wee Tam McTavish of Govan. And a **** load more Scottish than Sean Connery.

[melmothtw]

Quote:
Originally Posted by melmothtw View Post
The point of taxation is that you don't get to pick and chose which 'benefits' you pay for and which you don't. I don't benefit from the Royal Family, but I still have to pay for the damned thing.
Yes you do benefit.

Even the most cursory Google will find you a cost benefit calculation for the royal family in terms of revenue from tourism etc

Come on Tourist, you're smarter than to fall for that.

[JEMster]

Works exactly the same. If you're main home is in Scotland but you are also living and working in England then you could be a Scottish taxpayer if the Scottish residence is your main place of residence. Main place of residence equates to the one you are most connected with, not necessarily the one you spend the most time in. Tax on pension income works the same as tax on other earnings.

[Phoney Tony]

Sounds like the consequences of putting UK military bases in Scotland have financial impacts that need to be factored into future basing studies. I fear the Scotish Government is being handed a cash cow/ bargaining chip.

[melmothtw]

No one "put" those bases in Scotland. As you said yourself, they're UK military bases, not English military bases.