IAF Retires A-4 Skyhawk

[ORAC]

IAF retires Skyhawk after 48 years in service (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4738755,00.html)

48 years have passed since the first American-built McDonnell Douglas A4 Skyhawk landed in Israel, with the anniversary being marked by an official parting ceremony at Hatzerim air base on Sunday. The ceremony featured a flyover, and the veteran jet's last official flight with the IAF...........

[Evalu8ter]

With three active duty Generals flying them........a bit more "in touch" than most of ours.....

[JointShiteFighter]

With three active duty Generals flying them........a bit more "in touch" than most of ours.....

I would be amazed if any one of the Air Chief Marshals with fast-jet backgrounds had the time in their day to maintain frontline jet currency in the modern Royal Air Force, their work load must be enormous. So that's a little unfair, don't you think? Plus, age is a factor too - ACMs are usually getting on a bit - fast-jet flying's a young man's game!

[KenV]

Thanks for sharing. I thought IAF had gotten rid of all their Scooters years ago. Clearly I was wrong.

[ORAC]

JSF, as a VSO said in justification many years ago, just after another (French) VSO had driven his Jag into a hill.

"It's bloody good fun - and the survivors are worth having....."

[sandiego89]

I believe this leaves Argentina and Brazil as the only military users? Think the Singapore det in France retired their A-4's ~2012.

Not too shaby with the type first flying in 1954. :ok:

[JointShiteFighter]

ORAC, there's no doubt that flying a fast-jet is the most fun one can have with their clothes on!

[Evalu8ter]

JSF,
You are of course correct - but.....
One could argue that the reason our VSOs are so busy is because of the bloated management tree they oversee. Yes, the IAF buys a lot off the shelf, but they also tailor it - and they do so with a fraction of the manpower it takes us. It's a given that they operate substantially more combat air with a smaller headcount and, yes, they don't need to 'breed' people for NATO jobs (why not give acting rank more?) but even so with command devolved down the chain and a sensible reservist policy (an existential threat near by helps I suppose......) they appear to do a lot more with less....

Perhaps we should look into it - doubtless a new 3* post could be created to run it.........:E

[Madbob]

I bet another thing that the IDF/AF will do differently to the RAF and this is to keep the aircraft in "shallow" storage/reserve in case they are needed in the future.


I somehow do not think that the Israeli's would have been quite so ready as to follow HMG's example of binning fleets of Jags and Harriers, which were a lot more capable (than an A4) and had years of service life left when put out to grass.


MB

[JointShiteFighter]

Evalu8ter - a fair argument, although if the IAF were committed to nearly as much conflict and overseas detachments that the RAF has in the last 20 years, would their 4* Generals still have the time to maintain currency?

Badbob - unfortunate true. Sorry to repeat history (as I'm sure this debate has been done to death) however had the electorate not been so stupid in 1997, it might be a bit better than it currently is!

[thunderbird7]

Eh? And which lot binned the Harriers and the mighty 'Rod? Pretty sure that was decided after the 2010 election...

[Just This Once...]

With three active duty Generals flying them........a bit more "in touch" than most of ours.....

I'm sure our star ranks would jump at the chance and I used to enjoy flying with the VSOs back in the day. Funded hours for the brass disappeared many moons ago, as did routine refresher flying, fully-funded hours for all flying station commanders, OC Operations, group standards posts, sim instructors, flight safety posts etc etc.

Once all the meat was excised from the bone we started cutting flying for instructors, then students, then frontline execs and frontline aircrew to levels below that achieved by the Warsaw Pact.

The only recent exception I can recall is when Torpy decided that he was above all that and allocated himself a short Typhoon course - just before joining BAE Systems…. what a happy coincidence for him.

[JointShiteFighter]

One VSO was spotted last week (Air Cdre B** J*****, I believe) in the front seat of a T3 at Coningsby. Although I think his current job requires him to remain current more so than him flying just to be a pilot again.

[JointShiteFighter]

Thunderbird7, with respect, Sir - please wake up.

Labour destroyed the economy which forced the Conservatives to make difficult, unpopular and risky decisions to stop the country from going under. Austerity isn't popular, and I certainly don't like it.... but it's the only proven method which works, other than voting intelligently in the first place!

[chopper2004]

The Alenia M346 has been in service for nearly a year (?) slowly replacing the two seat Scooter in their training role. Their first batch of retired Scooters ended up with the BAe contract at Wittmund replacing the F-100D Hun.

By coincidence I am reading Israel's Air Force (Presidio Power series pub 1992) by Samuel M Katz. Interesting the pilot selection process which is pretty much brutal, with the Gibush. The very first test and exercise, the budding candidates face are two lots of 18.6 mile marches. The second is with a makeshift stretcher with person atop :E. That is the only tip of the iceberg. The candidates live and breathe in tent city until the end of the Gibush, sorry survive.

Those who pass the Gibush end up doing a combo of infantry training , platoon leadership plus academics in their air force academy thrown in with more brutal infantry training at various stages.


Cheers

[Courtney Mil]

Sadiego89,

The Singapore Air Force 150 Sqn detachment at Cazaux started receiving Aermacchi M-346s in September last year, replacing their A-4s there. The current contract to keep the Det there has another ten years to run.

[air pig]

TBird 7:

Talking to someone with the Nimrod programme, the big problem was that the wings were bespoke to each aircraft and the could be 6"/15cm difference between each set. No laser jig and computer controlled shape forming and metal cutting but a tape measure and slide rule when they were built.

[Thelma Viaduct]

Thunderbird7, with respect, Sir - please wake up.

Labour destroyed the economy which forced the Conservatives to make difficult, unpopular and risky decisions to stop the country from going under. Austerity isn't popular, and I certainly don't like it.... but it's the only proven method which works, other than voting intelligently in the first place!

The national debt has doubled under tory rule. Austerity has failed, it's a c**t ideology created by c**ts and voted for by c**ts.

[air pig]

Tell that to the NHS who are functionally bankrupt due to Blair and Brown's vast over-expansion of PFI then add on all the PFI debt for schools. 'Prudence with a purpose' may backside.

[Thelma Viaduct]

Tell that to the NHS who are functionally bankrupt due to Blair and Brown's vast over-expansion of PFI then add on all the PFI debt for schools. 'Prudence with a purpose' may backside.

Tell the NHS/Schools that the national debt has doubled under tory austerity ideology despite their budgets being slashed????

[air pig]

When was the NHS budget slashed, too many inefficient managers and too may layers. NHS budget has risen for years, eaten up by PFI and negligence claims. This year they have been given 8.5 billion which is 20% of the defence budget.

Look at how much money is due to waste and inefficiency.

The real tragedy is the defence budget and poor funding for operations in particular at the start of Iraq 2003 and Afghanistan.

[Not_a_boffin]

Tell the NHS/Schools that the national debt has doubled under tory austerity ideology despite their budgets being slashed????

The NHS budget has not been "slashed". It (and edumacation) are among the ring-fenced budgets, which have increased (albeit slightly) in real terms ever since 2010.

The issue with the NHS is simple. There is unconstrained demand for ever increasing (and costlier) services. Mostly to do with people living longer and demanding/requiring more care. There is simply no way to square that budget circle.

There will never be enough money in Christendom to "fully fund" the NHS. The sooner people understand that, the better.

[Geordie_Expat]

And this relevant to the Israelis and the A4 how ??

[JointShiteFighter]

The real tragedy is the defence budget and poor funding for operations in particular at the start of Iraq 2003 and Afghanistan.

Precisely my point, hence my post defending RAF 4*'s and their workload making it difficult even to fly for an hour or two a month, never mind the 12-15 required to remain Current.

[Not_a_boffin]

And this relevant to the Israelis and the A4 how ??

None whatsoever. Fair point well made.

[chopper2004]

There's a 10 percent relevant to this thread :cool: ;)and that's the PFI bit of whatever the equivalent Europe use. Re the first batch of retired IDF/AF A-4 Scooters ended up as I mentioned earlier - with BAe Flight Systems contract to the Bundeswehr and NATO by providing adversary / aggressor services,

Cheers