Should the RAF bomb important ISIS targets on Christmas Day?

[Hangarshuffle]

A fair question. If this air war was so very important to start and sustain for an indefinite, long period.....
Should the RAF prove the importance of our new er.. important war by carrying out raids of vital importance on the said day? A day that is supposed to be of peace and good-will to all men? An important day in the Roman Christian calendar (correct me there someone).


I feel they shouldn't fly or bomb on Christmas Day. But I can give no reason, it's just a feeling I have, for our own sides benefit rather than theirs.


Stand down the lads, de-arm and park the warplanes in the mighty hangars (if you have them there, I cant remember, I think not).
Try and have a traditional stood-down-from-air ops-day, I say. Know what that means? Thought you might.
Who agrees?

[BEagle]

More of your nonsense - please just $od off elsewhere, you're an embarrassment here.

[Pontius Navigator]

Tough call, it's a Friday.

[downsizer]

It would have to be before lunch then, we don't work on a friday after about 11 FFS....:zzz:

[vernon99]

So if not OP deny Christmas, then at least POETS day?

[salad-dodger]

You are the Donald Trump of PPRuNe!

Can we start a petition?

S-D

[Mach Two]

Hangarshuffle,

Operational requirements and the tactical situation will decide our tasking on any day of the year. I can see no logic in your post, save offering our guys a standdown. You may rest assured that you can wallow in your disappointment - there will be plenty of us on duty on Christmas Day.

It's a shame the guys doing the country's bidding lack your support.

[phil9560]

Afternoon drinking.

It's ferkin lethal.:=

[Chris Kebab]

Great idea; we could arrange a coach across to Raqqa for a Christmas Day game of football.

[langleybaston]

DO THEY KNOW ITS CHRISTMAS?

I suggest maximum effort.

[Union Jack]

Hangarshuffle is clearly not one of the Three Wise Men.:=

Jack

[AR1]

Im with the football idea. It'll get talked about on the magazine programs in 90 years time as to how civilised war was back then. Though it'll probably get abandoned due to crowd trouble this time around. Or we'd lose on penalties.

Back to reality. Although I appreciate the sentiment, we arent a Christian crusade, if the task requires it then why not?

[O-P]

We could update the 'traditional' soccer match for the 21st century... How about 'catch the Brimstone', or a PWIV heading contest, guess which side goes first.

O-P

[SASless]

Catch me up please.....how much bombing is the RAF doing against ISIS?

Were not the latest deployed Assets to be used in support or Reece work rather than Attack missions?

I know my Lot are not very happy with the current ROE's re Zero Civilian Deaths and the effect it has had on target restrictions which would indicate an under-utilization of those assets already in operations there.

[Geriaviator]

Not so farfetched as some might think. When British Servicemen were risking their lives to remove Saddam Hussein from Kuwait a relative's unit was forbidden to hold a Christmas Carol service lest they offend the local population.

[Courtney Mil]

As the tasking requires, SASless. Recce and attack.

[Tengah Type]

Hangarshuffle

You are Jeremy Corbyn. I claim my £5. :cool:

[Lonewolf_50]

Back to reality. Although I appreciate the sentiment, we arent a Christian crusade, if the task requires it then why not? In fact, a strike on Christmas would very much underscore that point ...

unless someone spun it as delivering special presents to special friends on Christmas Day! (So drop them on Christmas Eve and blame it on Santa having TFOA problems!)

@Geriaviator: Americans ran into similar rubbish during that campaign.

[Courtney Mil]

HS, we all know you're unhappy with the decision to extend ops to Syria and we are all well versed in the arguments, but the die is cast. Time to get get behind the programme now and, in particular, RAF guys there in theatre.

Either that or wait a while until you can gloat and tell us you told us so. For now, it just sounds like bleating.

[Tankertrashnav]

We could do a deal with the Russians. They could double up on the tasking on 25th December, and the US, French and British could give them a day off on January 7th, the Russian Orthodox Christmas Day, which is a public holiday in Russia

Saudis, Jordanians etc not affected either way I guess.

Job done!

SASless - dont forget, before all the fuss about shall we/shant we bomb in Syria, the RAF had been engaging targets (not just recce) in Iraq, on the other side of the border which IS don't recognise anyway. Recce missions only in Syria up to the recent vote, but attack missions as well now.

[MOSTAFA]

Who agrees?:=

Daesh might and readers of that well known fluffy clap trap liberal democrats use as a symbol of office.

Personally I would ensure they get double their Christmas presents early on the 25th.

[Genstabler]

You might also ask, should we conduct lethal missions on a Sunday. Regrettably armed conflict transcends religious sensitivities.

[TEEEJ]

SASless wrote

Were not the latest deployed Assets to be used in support or Reece work rather than Attack missions?

The first RAF air strike against ISIS in Syria was on 21st August, 2015.

Islamic State conflict: Two Britons killed in RAF Syria strike - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34178998)

[jolihokistix]

Surely our mission was to bomb them when necessary and when the target was clear, but that in many cases our aircraft would probably return with their bomb loads intact.


Our mission was never to bomb them every day regardless of anything else. That would be unsustainable madness. Once a month would fulfill the symbolic role right away for a start, and would be less of a strain on the taxpayer's shilling. Anything above that would be a calculated bonus.

[SASless]

Can we all agree that Guy Fawkes Day should be a real hum dinger where everything including the Engineer's Bog gets tossed at the Virgin seekers?

What could be more noble than to try to get as many of the carpet kissers laid as possible!

[thunderbird7]

Surely traffic deconfliction will be an issue on Christmas Day? Imagine the outcry if one of our bombers heading for the war zone had a mid air with a sleigh on its way back from Bethlehem with dear sweet 8lb 6oz baby Jesus on board? Donner und Blitzen! And Dasher and Dancer and Prancer too - even the RSPCA would be on the case. And all the western children who will be in tears as their PS4s, bicycles and toy guns are showered over those undeserving dirty Syrian refugee camps.

So no. Far safer to wallow in a bath of kokinelli with a clear conscience. Squeaky cheese instead of turkey anyone?

Fly safe chaps :ok:

[5aday]

Bomb them irrespective of what day it is.
I wish I was of the age and ability to fly those missions - I'd be there straight away.

[newt]

Maybe Mr Putin will nuke them on Christmas Day? Then the boys can have more than a couple of days off!:ok:

[BBadanov]

Bomb the sh!t outa them on Christmas Day.
It's the job


I checked my logbook for 1969 in Vietnam...
I am devastated - didn't drop bomb on the 25th, just did two airtests.
What a disappointment !!

[Pontius Navigator]

Once a month would fulfill the symbolic role right away for a start, and would be less of a strain on the taxpayer's shilling. Anything above that would be a calculated bonus.

Actually infrequent bombing would have a far greater psychological effect. A daily blitz, unpleasant as it was, became part of the routine. Ad long as you heard the bomb you were OK.

On two sqns, 20 years apart, when we experienced a 10 day gap in activities everyone was visibly twitched.

Imagine now, clear blue sky, lazy contrails painting a picture, the almost inaudible drone of a propeller, would death and destruction arrive today? Was it safe to go across the yard to the kharsi. A week of nothing then BANG.

Much more effective than improving the golf course.

[peterperfect]

DEFO.
Zap them in a line coming out of their favourite pub !

[AR1]

with a sleigh on its way back from Bethlehem with dear sweet 8lb 6oz baby Jesus on board?
It's been a while since I went to Sunday school, but I'm pretty sure that's not how it happened.... Santa wasn't born for another 1800 years.

[PingDit]

Any bombing should be intelligence driven. If the pieces of the jigsaw fit on Christmas day, so be it!

[MPN11]

Proponents of Christmas Day bombing risk bringing religion into the already-complex combat scenario. ;)


OK, I'll go away

[engineer(retard)]

Christmas is a time for giving, so yes

[Hueymeister]

Who cares??? Really, who does...why are we giving this Oxygen thief air time..I'm sure he just wanted to kick the nest....

[Courtney Mil]

Yeah, good point, well made, Huey. And to be brutally honest, it's not the type of question anyone with experience of ops would ask.

[Pontius Navigator]

Many decades ago I arrived in theatre and asked this Aussie what day it was.

I still remember his reply

"Half past 3"

[EnigmAviation]

Absolutely yes, taking the lead from the newly PC Barclays Bank as they now omit all reference to Christmas referring to it as a "Bank Holiday" !

Well I suppose they are Barclays Bankers after all, but in this case legitimise the necessary bombing

[AR1]

Things you shouldn't do on Christmas Day...

I know a now Wing Commander, who on Christmas day with a bottle of whisky and two others, were prostrate under the windows of the crew room, while the Staish banged on the door. He'd elected to visit all those 'on duty' to boost morale.

It was already quite high boss :ok:

[Lonewolf_50]

You might also ask, should we conduct lethal missions on a Sunday. Regrettably armed conflict transcends religious sensitivities.But the Daesh Sabbath is not on Sunday. ;)


Any bombing should be intelligence driven. If the pieces of the jigsaw fit on Christmas day, so be it! Here we have someone being rational. How much fun is that?

[Surplus]

Am I being too harsh? I'd put them back to the Stone-age.

[langleybaston]

Back? They never left it.

[Lonewolf_50]

Back? They never left it.

Whoa, I thought they had achieved at least Medieval, which is Iron age moving into Steel age. :}

[Out Of Trim]

How about we do a leaflet drop; giving daesh the day off of Air Strkes... on Christmas Day. Then when lots of targets appear - hit them hard! :E

Is that wrong?

[Willard Whyte]

Get Sharkey's finest to launch a few Tomahawks at a couple of minutes to midnight Xmas eve. Xmas day off for our chaps, lots of explosions sausage side on Xmas day.

[NutLoose]

Oh dear
Mark Oberholtzer: Texas man whose truck was seen in jihadi photo says his life has been ruined | Americas | News | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/mark-oberholtzer-texas-man-whose-truck-was-seen-in-jihadi-photo-says-his-life-has-been-ruined-a6770611.html)

[Toadstool]

More of your nonsense - please just $od off elsewhere, you're an embarrassment here.

Oh dear. Whatever happened to play the ball, not the man?

That said, its easy to spot HS's drinking schedule.

[Danny42C]

Surprised not much mention of WWII so far. In those days they paid us by the day, seven days a week, so you fought the war seven days a week. Christmas, Easter and all the other Bank Holidays included.

The 1914 Football Match was a one-off: there were no more after that.

In my neck of the woods, the Jap was quite happy to kill you on Christmas (or any other ) day. So you had to return the compliment.

War is War. The normal rules don't apply.

D.

[typerated]

I was just wondering if the RAF should bomb other things on Christmas day instead of ISIS?


Sharkey's house?

[crackling jet]

Mach Two:-

As stated plenty of people working Christmas day, so good luck to you and all others working that day Mearry Christmas to you all, and Stay Safe. - From a normal Numpty back home, get it done,get it sorted, and get home

Best Wishes to all concerned !!

[Junglydaz]

Typerated, take a seat next to HangarShuffle........:=

[Hangarshuffle]

Well Christmas Day coming to a close. Big red moon coming up where I'm sat on earth. I was working this year and have just wrapped in. I don't complain = its a rotation I live by and that's how the flip flops. No clues on the website about how it went for braver, abler men than me.


https://www.gov.uk/government/news/update-air-strikes-in- But I still hope they didn't fly today, and all had a good days rest.
Anyway, I pray for peace on earth tonight, friends. I know its tough on operations, but whatever your role we are thinking of you and your safe return, always.


HS.

[JointShiteFighter]

HS, war is not won by being nice, it is won by being a lot more horrible than your enemy and doing it consistently until one of you can no longer do it. So flying today it is. I bet they're airborne right now on a CAP waiting for the call.

If only you lefties realised this then future wars might not take 15 years and still not be complete.....

Thinking of the men and women in Blue today.

[glad rag]

I can think of better things for service moral than killing at Christmas...force protection excepted..

[Pontius Navigator]

Looking at the Web news, I expect there will be a weekly report next Wednesday.

[Bigbux]

I think we should be guided, as ever, by those in charge of policy. In this case, we have the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Pope.

The former has chosen this special day of goodwill to notice the attempted genocide of the Yazidis, coming to the conclusion that all Christians in the ME are in imminent danger of extinction. (no fear inducing call to arms there then).

The latter has called for ALL Christians to come together to resist radical islam. For some reason he doesn't invite any other denominations.

So merry Christmas ISIL, these 2 befrocked goons have played Santa Clause by backing your aim of a world-wide, religion-fuelled destruction Derby.

By the way HS, would it make any difference if ISIL stopped murdering people during Eid as a gesture of goodwill?

[G-CPTN]

An airstrike near the Syrian capital on Friday killed top rebel commander Zahran Allouch, the head of one of the most powerful Saudi-backed insurgent groups (http://www.cp24.com/world/airstrike-kills-top-syrian-rebel-commander-near-damascus-1.2714196).

[MPN11]

So that's an anti-Assad rebel killed by the anti-ISIL Russians in support of 'something' :uhoh:

He said he believed the warplanes were Russian because Syrian fighter jets fly at lower altitude and are not as accurate as the Russians.... Allouch, who was in his mid-40s, was widely known to be supported by Saudi Arabia and Turkey.

No wonder Blair quit his post ... who could honestly unravel this pile of ordure?

Oh, well ... Merry Christmas anyway, and a pox on them all over there. :(

[Courtney Mil]

Well, here we are. Christmas Day and we're still here.

[KyleG]

Missions continued on Christmas Day, with Tornados maintaining close air support over Ramadi. Once again working closely with other coalition aircraft, they used Paveway IVs against two terrorist teams, an anti-aircraft gun, and a massed Daesh group who were assembling for an attempted counter-attack on the successful Iraqi advance. Meanwhile, over Syria, an RAF Reaper struck a Daesh checkpoint south of Raqqa with a Hellfire missile.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/update-air-strikes-in-iraq

[Lonewolf_50]

Glad to see that deliveries were not delayed during this holiday season.
Well done. :ok:

[Timesgoneby]

Several Christmas's , Bank Holidays and most weekends the bad guys weren't out to play so, why not relax a little and ski...

[Timesgoneby]

Good hunting days Danny,, and many more to come. Ps My Mrs is Japanese but I'm sure has said 'sorry' for her nation's wickedness many times over....
The Is motely crew haven't much going for them so yes, they are 'the enemy' and helping them to meet their god (soon) seems too generous a gesture.

[ShotOne]

According to a report today, Hangarshuffle has in fact got his wish, at least as far as Syria goes. Immediately after the Commons vote, there were two strikes in early Dec. There has been just one since then, not interfering with any ISIS Xmas parties. Also, while Brimstone was touted as our special contribution, none has been fired in Syria.

[Hangarshuffle]

My post was a little tongue in cheek. I was hoping the lads would have an easy day-especially the ground-crew. I truly hope some of them did, but the RAF being the 24/7/365 very professional outfit it is, I knew people would be working hard within the organization, somewhere.
Some comment on the lack of something in todays Daily Telegraph (I can only get online version sometimes). They comment on the recent ops but also report its very limited in something...tempo? Output?
When the MOD website reports the foreign air-strikes, I always think, yes to someone on the ground it was a worthy effort, even a life saver for some poor PBI. But how, now do we get out of it? How do we now end operations? or is this for another thread?
War without end? Never ending war fighting?
Happy New Year and for those on the never ending rotation of ops, hope yours goes sweet as a nut and you return home soon.