Turkey...one rule for one?

[ShotOne]

The Turkish government has been angrily asked by Iraq to remove 150 Turkish troops stationed near Mosul to train Iraqi-Kurdish fighters (with whom they're apparently best buddies although they regard Syrian Kurds as hostile).

Is this the same Turkish government that was so touchy about its own sovereignty that it felt a 17 second air incursion warranted an immediate lethal shootdown?

[Skeleton]

Turkey is like Israel but bigger. It was allowed to join Europe but it had its own agenda.

You mess with either at your peril. Russia knows that hence lots of rhetoric but no actual retaliation.


Mean while the UK continues to willy wave.

[al_renko]

"Russia knows that hence lots of rhetoric but no actual retaliation"

"If someone thinks they can commit a heinous war crime, kill our people and get away with it, suffering nothing but a ban on tomato imports, or a few restrictions in construction or other industries, they're delusional," the Russian leader said."
I know who my money is on!

[pusight]

Now that it is clear that one of the routes for selling and transporting IS oil is through Turkey, is it not about time that some form of sanctions are imposed on Turkey? It also seems unbelievable that the US/coalition int didn't pick this supply route up.

[MPN11]

I suspect even Daily Mail readers can figure out that Dash oil is going into Turkey.

So what does one do?

Really annoy Turkey, so that we lose use of Inkirclic [sp]?

I suspect any prospect of joining the EU is now well out of the window, so Turkey may be happy just being a fairly major player in the sandpit, looking after its own interests.

Having done Staff College with a Turkish colonel, I don't trust them one bloody millimetre. ;)

[smujsmith]

MPN 11,

I hope what you suggest is true regarding EU membership for Turkey being trashed. I can't understand how any EU member state could even consider their accession whilst they still illegally occupy a fellow member state, Cyprus. Hopefully Putin wil cut off their oil, along with our own lads, who seem to have made a good start on the IS infrastructure. Iraqis giving them the heave ho also seems to indicate that Turkey is getting some cold shoulder treatment.

Smudge :ok:

[Herod]

Only last week Merkel was offering Turkey billions of EU money and a fast-track to EU membership if they stopped refugees crossing to Greece. Now what?

[Above The Clouds]

Herod
Only last week Merkel was offering Turkey billions of EU money and a fast-track to EU membership if they stopped refugees crossing to Greece. Now what?

Simples, get rid of the deluded idiot Merkel.

[Easy Street]

Iraqis giving them the heave ho also seems to indicate that Turkey is getting some cold shoulder treatment.

More worryingly than that, it indicates that the fracture-line in the "coalition" against ISIL is getting ever closer to full-blown rupture. Russia, Iran, Iraq, Assad and Hezbollah on one side, versus Saudi, Turkey, Qatar and assorted Sunni nations on the other.

For some reason we in the West think the latter faction is worthy of our unswerving support (despite their various predilections for autocracy, Islamism and Wahhabism) to the point that a US State Department spokesman felt the need to make excuses for alleged war crimes committed by Turkmen rebels after the SU-24 shootdown. The US still sometimes gives the impression that it thinks Russia is the true adversary in all of this, despite alleged cooperation over deconfliction of air operations. Things could get really, really ugly.

[pusight]

Turkey being very hard nosed in this press report:



President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's advisor Burhan Kuzu commented on the migrant deal between the EU and turkey, saying on his twitter account on Wednesday that the EU finally bowed to Turkey's threat to open its borders to refugees by deciding to provide Turkey with financial support for the migrant crisis.

“The EU finally got Turkey's message and opened its purse strings. What did we say? ‘We'll open our borders and unleash all the Syrian refugees on you,'” Kuzu stated in his controversial tweet.

Kuzu's tweet drew strong criticism, with a number of social media users saying that it is unethical to talk about “unleashing [the refugees] on” the EU as if they were animals.

A social media user reacted against Kuzu's statement, saying, “Are those whom you are talking about [unleashing] dogs, Mr. Kuzu?”

Referring to the many incidents of migrant boats sinking in their attempt to cross the seas between Greece and Turkey, another Twitter user asked, “Is this the reason why all those people drowned in Aegean Sea?”

More than 400 migrants, including many children, have drowned in the Aegean since the start of 2015.

On Nov. 24 the EU's executive branch confirmed it will set up a fund of 3 billion euros for two years to help improve the living conditions of migrants in Turkey and prevent further influxes into Europe. The agreement was finalized on Nov. 29 at the EU-Turkey summit held in Brussels, where Turkey promised to help stem the flow of migrants to Europe in return for financial support, visa-free travel to Europe's Schengen zone and renewed EU accession talks.

EU bows to Turkey?s threat on refugees says Erdo?an advisor (http://www.todayszaman.com/latest-news_eu-bows-to-turkeys-threat-on-refugees-says-erdogan-advisor_405884.html)

[peter we]

I see Putin's Useful Idiots are alive and well.

[Tiger_mate]

In about 2000, I was in Jordan watching Israeli TV (in English) with a debate about the future of the Middle East as a topic of conversation.
The Israeli commentator stated then that the Palestinians and Iranian threat paled into insignificance compared to what he referred to as Ottoman version II.

Turkish occupation of Northern Cyprus was discussed, but at that time apart from the inseparable Greek - Turkey conflict, the Turks appeared to be quite 'western' in their stance on world affairs. 15 years later, I do wonder if the Israelis possessed impressive foresight.

[West Coast]

More worryingly than that, it indicates that the fracture-line in the "coalition" against ISIL is getting ever closer to full-blown rupture. Russia, Iran, Iraq, Assad and Hezbollah on one side, versus Saudi, Turkey, Qatar and assorted Sunni nations on the other.

For some reason we in the West think the latter faction is worthy of our unswerving support (despite their various predilections for autocracy, Islamism and Wahhabism) to the point that a US State Department spokesman felt the need to make excuses for alleged war crimes committed by Turkmen rebels after the SU-24 shootdown. The US still sometimes gives the impression that it thinks Russia is the true adversary in all of this, despite alleged cooperation over deconfliction of air operations. Things could get really, really ugly.

Loose agreements to avoid a US -Russia shoot down isn't a tacit approval of Russian actions. Even during the cold war there was coordination between east and West.

[Pontius Navigator]

INCIRLIK

The issue with Turkey is to keep them on side.

[peter we]

And Russia's goal is to separate Turkey from, and to destroy, Nato.

Which explains their repeated and deliberate overflight of Turkish airspace.

Russia couldn't give two hoots about Daesh, but is happy to exploit some peoples obsession over it. Fortunately Nato isn't so stupid

[skippedonce]

Fortunately Nato isn't so stupidYou have an admirably naive amount of faith that 28 (soon to be 29) nations with over-riding national interests can maintain any meaningful consensus, particularly when a number of them are dependent on Russia for energy or investment.:D

[peter we]

dependent on Russia for energy or investment.

The situation is changing quite dramatically since you last looked. Ukraine is getting significant reverse flows from the west, the Baltics are being connected to Poland and the Saudis are looking to muscle in on Russia customers. The Turkish stream is probably dead.

You have an admirably naive amount of faith that 28

Countries bordering Russia are not naive, the Western Betrayal in 1939 is embedded in the Polish psyche, they realise they may have to fight alone. Especially if people like you keep pushing Putin's agenda, in order to make it acceptable.

[ShotOne]

"They may have to fight alone.." No they wouldn't.

"Western betrayal in 1939"?? We committed ourselves to a devastating and costly six-year war, against the odds, losing hundreds of thousands of our finest and incurring gigantic debts over Poland. In the final event, we weren't able to stop the Soviets in 1945. Sorry about that. But hardly a betrayal; we gave it our best shot when we could quite easily have looked the other way in '39

ps. What's Poland got to do with Turkish troops in Iraq?

[AreOut]

I see Putin's Useful Idiots are alive and well.

oh come on, yes he is now buying shills on a pilot's forum...please

[peter we]

buying shills

Quite different from Useful Idiots.

What's Poland got to do with Turkish troops in Iraq?

Everything, thats my point. Russia wants split Nato into individual countries so he can destroy them one by one. Thats exactly why Nato exists, to prevent it.

[Pontius Navigator]

AreOut, there is not necessarily a direct or even indirect linkage between Useful Idiots and the 'Master'.

The other term is 'agents of influence' where information is published in a possibly obscure journal and then picked up by the mainstream and generally regurgitated. The BBC is a notable player in that game trawling thread like this before rebroadcasting as investigative journalism.

[skippedonce]

the Western Betrayal in 1939 is embedded in the Polish psyche, they realise they may have to fight alone.Well then, will we see the major announcement of next year's Warsaw Summit as the first invocation of Article 13? Somehow, I don't think so.

But back to the thread: Turkey conducting Air Defence ops under national ROE while NATO Allies are contributing to Air Policing under NATO ROE in the same airspace against the same 'threat' offers huge opportunity for something to go horribly wrong and that contributing NATO ally to wear the unintended but predictable consequences.

[ShotOne]

"back to the thread.." ? Fat chance! Considering it was prompted by a real-life invasion of a neighbouring sovereign state which took place some months ago, but by some bonkers logic twist it's now about some future invasion of Poland, there's little chance of that, skippedonce

[Backinblack]

Putin Accuses Turkish Leadership of "Aiding Terror" (http://mil.today/2015/Russia5/)

[AnglianAV8R]

Davutoglu: Turkey will not withdraw troops from Mosul (http://rudaw.net/NewsDetails.aspx?pageid=177495) Turkish PM refuses to withdraw troops from Iraq.