Correct approach into Stansted?

[Dave T-S]

Hi

I'm new here...so bear with me.

I live on the approach into Stansted, 14 miles out to the north. I am curious as to the correct approach to the runway from this direction (Thaxted/Broxted, I think it is runway 023).

There seems to be a varying route taken by many pilots from this direction.

Now, I would state I am not a NIMBY, I travel into London on the train from the airport every day, my wife and I fly regularly from the airport and am not against expansion of the airport!

I am just curious - probably as an ex plane spotting kid - as there seem to be many different approaches taken - some seem to fly over our village, and some either side of it up to a couple of miles in either direction.

Thanks

[HugMonster]

Hi, Dave. Welcome to PPRuNe!

Yep - you're prime candidate for approaches onto 23 at Stansted!

As for the variation east/west in approaches that you've seen:-

First reason would be the direction from which they are coming. Stuff from the continent will be routing over Clacton, inbound westwards, then cleared southwest towards the airport. That would be the most easterly traffic you see. It would probably account for quite a bit of stuff from the south as well, depending on the conditions at the time and how traffic needs to be routed over London. Just about everything else comes over Brookmans Park and Barkway (to your north-east) and then turns towards the runway more or less over your house. That will be the most westerly traffic you see.

Second reason for the difference is in their speed and altitude on arrival at what is colloquially called "the gate". If they are high and fast, ATC will give them a more round-about route to allow them to lose the height and speed and to fit them into their sequence for landing. The slower, lower traffic don't need this, so will be given shorter routings.

Hope this answers your question.

And thanks for your support for your little local airfield! ;)

[Dave T-S]

Hi HugMonster

Thanks your reply.

I forgot about the Clacton corridor.....I lived there as a kid for 16 years - must be where the interest in planes came from!

Re "more or less over your house" - read 99% straight over it - it's pink, and I swear most pilots use it for a visual turn point.....:D - doesn't particularly bother me as most inboard stuff is still at 3000 ft or so.

My wife has even spotted it from the air herself when inbound from Edinburgh:D

It gets kind of quiet where we are when the runway is used other way round.

Re speed and altitude, would I be correct in guessing the heavies seem to take a shallower approach? Is that a noise issue, or just a technical thing that they take a shallower glide path?

Talking of which, the Antonov 222 has been over a couple of times this week, I thought this had got the chop along with the other Chapter 2 stuff in April (although FedEx's MD11's are probably noisier!)?

Lastly, re your comment about thanks for your support for our local little airfield - I take it you are a user!

Not as little as it used to be - but BAA still seem to run it like a shed in a field as it was 30 years ago sometimes...

Handy for Europe having it 20 minutes away though:)

[greatorex]

Dave,

Have a look at:

Click Here (http://www.ais.org.uk/uk_aip/pdf/ad/EGSS.htm)

G

[Dave T-S]

Greatorex
Ah! - thanks for that - interesting info (or it will be once I sort out all the TLA's and understand it a bit better!:D)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Dave... One point, all the a/c are radar controlled - ie directed by controllers on the ground - and only very rarely do pilots carry out the approaches "by themselves" so the exact point at which they make their turns will depend on a large number of factors. Radar control is used at the vast majority of busy airports to ensure that high landing rates can be achieved in safety in all weather conditions.

The final approach path is "marked" by a ground radio system called ILS (Instrument Landing System) which "shines" a radio beam directly out along the runway centreline and upwards along the descent path. The descent path is usually around 3 degrees and all a/c carrying out ILS approaches will follow the radio "paths". Radar controllers will vector the a/c, issuing headings, altitudes and speeds for pilots to fly in order to "establish" themselves on the ILS. Occasionally, if the weather is good and traffic is light, a/c may be cleared to carry out visual appraoches, ie from the time the pilot gets the runway in sight he can be cleared to carry out the remainder of the approach with ATC intervention. Under these circumstances his route to the runway and his descent path may vary from the ILS path, but not usually by very much.

Lastly, much lighter a/c may be postioned, or position themselves, for much tighter approaches to the airport and may not achieve the runway centreline until a mile or two from touchdown.

[Dave T-S]

Thanks for that.

As much of the traffic into Stansted is LCO 737's, would they qualify for being lighter?

We are approx 14 miles out, which I suspect is just out of reach of the Stansted tower. It seems that most a/c are lined up by the time they get to Thaxted, about 6 miles from the threshold, but are still sorting themselves out when they cross us.

I had better not mention that it seems to be certain planes with a harp on the tail that appear to cut the corner, as the proprieter of said airline doesn't seem to be Mr popular on here:D

I was lucky enough to fly in to Stansted in a Go 737 with the crew in the jumpseat for landing a couple of years ago (before the BA Nairobi nutter incident and it all stopped) and it was interesting to see what goes on at the sharp end. Good fun.

Also flew back from Salzburg in the cockpit of a 757 several years back. Leisure International had put an A320 off the end of the runway at Palma if I remember correctly, and had wetleased the 757 in from Mexico I think it was. It was sitting on the tarmac at Salzburg, dirty grey colour and unwritten, and looked a bit of a sorry sight. If I remember the flight crew were Portuguese, I cadged a lift in the cockpit for much of the flight and they seemed (to my laymans eyes!) to know what they were doing:D - having got the plane from Mexico in one piece - but it was quite amusing watching them flying along with the pilots equivalent of an A to Z clipped to the control yoke:D They chucked me out for the final approach though:D - a very surreal flight!

IIRC the plane was around for a couple of months and they became well known and well liked at Stansted:)

[Herod]

Dave T-S. No, the 737 doesn't get the "lighter" category. You're right about being sorted by Thaxted. Even on visual approach we are restricted to a minimum of 2,000ft until established on final, round about the six mile point. As has been pointed out, once the aircraft has departed from Barkway, it is usually under radar control. The controller is slotting several aircraft at a time into the ILS and using radar vectors and speed to do so. Although following a general track, there will inevitably be some variation of actual routeing to achieve this. Haven't seen your pink house, must keep an eye out for it. Stansted is still growing, and the future's yellow !

[Dave T-S]

Herod

Cheers

Re the pink house:D - it'll be just under your starboard wing around 10 miles out as you bank round to the right to line up on Thaxted for 023 - but you need to be in the right hand seat to see it:D

The future's yellow? Not blue and white then;)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Dave.. the radar controllers dealing with Stansted inbound traffic are located at West Drayton at the London Terminal Control Centre. I'm a Heathrow controller but we work similarly.. the Stansted radar controllers will take over control from their London Control colleagues when traffic is maybe 20-30 miles away. When the a/c is on the final approach course (ILS) it is then transferred to Stansted Tower for the landing. This could occur anywhere from 5-15 miles out from touchdown.

Strikes me you need to buy an airband receiver - you'd have a load of fun!

[Dave T-S]

HD

Thanks

Re the airband receiver - the same crossed my mind this morning.....had one about thirty years ago, must be in my second childhood now - better get searching for another one:D

[Dave T-S]

Whoops.....:(

[paulo]

Not much chance of finding anyone interested in prosecuting though. :) :)

[Mooney]

ah! So now we know which house to over fly on finals to 23 :)

[PA38]

Does that link mean that I can listen to ATC on a scanner, or do I have to sit in an aircraft to do it?

I have the PPL licence (radio) from the CAA ;)

[Landing_24R]

Dave T-S

I don't want to move the thread of its' subject, but re: scanners:
I wouldn't worry too much about it being illegal- you'll find that 90% of aviation 'enthusiasts' own one and use it regularly, even in public with police around at air shows etc. They are also sold in most enthusiast shops. It seems to be a law that is not enforced as long as you aren't transmitting off the unit as well of course, in which case it almost certainly will be enforced, and quite right too. :)

I'll look out for your house, I'm using STN later this year. I might have seen it last year on departure from 05, but it was extremely foggy so I didn't see anything much :D I'll bet it's a bit noisy at times, I live just to the right of the MAN centreline, but being deflected from the centre slightly seems to lessen the impact the noise has thankfully, what with all the bucket and spade charters coming in at 2am from Palma :)

Cheers,
Landing_24R

[Dave T-S]

Re STN finals, yup, turn right at the pink house 10 miles out then straight in - seems to work for most pilots:D

Re scanner - I don't smoke, do drugs, or speed in 30 limits so I guess if the worst crime I commit is to listen to a scanner I can live with that!:)