RAF Pilot FRI

[RAFpilot23]

Has anyone else heard about an FRI in the pipework?

Heard 3 years for 50K or if you are in your Return of Service 3 year extension beyond ROS for 50k

Assuming it's taxed.

[VinRouge]

I heard 150k post tax for a year.

[Jumping_Jack]

No, No it was £150K for loggies (especially Movers) and £5 plus a sandwich for the pilots. :ok:

[just another jocky]

If/when the details are released I'll believe it.

Until then, wait out.

[Seymour Belvoir]

What filling is in the sandwich?

[salad-dodger]

Depends who you ask to make it :E

S-D

[OafOrfUxAche]

Never going to happen. Or at least, no time soon.

[Mach Two]

Absolutely no rumours of such a thing around here.

[m0nkfish]

Wow 50k! The only thing that is surprising about this is how low it is. Are they really sitting around debating whether to offer such a paltry sum for 3 more years of service? They may get a few bites, particularly from people who are already locked into a ROS and haven't planned an exit strategy yet, but I doubt this amount of money will persuade someone who has already started taking steps to leave to sign on for even 1 more year, yet alone 3.

[RAFpilot23]

Apparently AOC 2 Group said something about it at a crew retention briefing at Brize recently.

[Willard Whyte]

... crew retention briefing ...

>1% pay rises, more training dets & routes, a return to rates, less niff-naff & triv, scrapping PAYD?

[JTIDS]

So at 40% tax that's £10,000 a year for three more years, without annual increments potentially. That's going to keep no one in.

[RAFpilot23]

Think the problem is they have got to do something. Whether this will be enough is another question!

Training 80 odd pilots next year and manning think they need 180!

Now I'm no maths wizard but that dog don't hunt.

[Bob Viking]

Just because it wouldn't work for you doesn't mean it wouldn't work for someone else.

We are all different.

BV

[Just This Once...]

The £80k helped my decision to stay. The absence of anything further in the future has also helped with my next decision to go. The utter shambles and chronic pay decline does the rest.

They need to get serious with pay and conditions as replacing people like me is not cheap, nor is it quick.

[Kitbag]

With the number of TG1 and Eng AS disappearing at all levels, and not being replaced, the need for additional Driver (Airframe) is likely to be rather moot.

[Uncle Ginsters]

The trouble is, the group any FRI would be aimed at are already pensionable under legacy schemes; leaving means a pension uplift that the FRI would have to counter for every year retained before you even start a retention intitiative - £50k isn't even close.

I personally like the idea touted by a brilliant mind in Manning a few years ago - if it costs £X millon to train a pilot, then pay 1/2 £X million to retain an experienced one for, say, 10 years.

Apparently it wouldn't pass The Sun Test...but everyone leaving does???

[VinRouge]

I don't agree with them. At all, even though I may benefit. Why should I get paid more in one year than my station commander who holds the risk of going to jail for his decisions?

Blunt stick that I'm not sure is adequate or appropriate. I woild prefer to see it spent on some kit to make my life easier when on Ops.

[Stitchbitch]

Well said VinRouge. For a second I thought I was on the Biz jet forum, not the military forum. Perhaps this is a bit simplistic or old fashioned, but surely if you're after more cash, join an airline, work in the city or just leave, you may not get paid the same as some people with the same skills outside (not all of them are on pop star wages) but you do get more than most, for doing a job that lots can only dream of doing.

[Just This Once...]

I don't agree with them. At all, even though I may benefit. Why should I get paid more in one year than my station commander who holds the risk of going to jail for his decisions?

Is there a new exemption for those below the rank of gp capt?

I think history has shown how adept we are at prosecuting those below this rank for their decisions rather than those who 'didn't know', 'didn't understand' or 'didn't remember'.

Anyway, we digress as the underlying issues remain the erosion of pay and conditions. FRIs are a sticking-plaster to address critical shortfalls; shortfalls that are usually triggered by our own self-defeating policies.

[Ken Scott]

Stitchbitch: surely that's the point isn't it? People are leaving for more money, theses forums (the Mil ones, not biz jets) are full of postings of how they've left & now have much better conditions & pay which is why we're heading for a manning crisis, in the air & on the ground. NEM, no incremental pay, no retention pay for 6 years for aircrew, the continuous wearing away of T&Cs is turning a trickle into a flood & one perceived solution is to throw money at it - although as usual they'll wait until disaster has happened before they offer any by which time it will be too late. Given how much & how long it takes to train us it would be more cost effective to pay a substantial sum to retain that experience instead of training a replacement which takes years & £millions. As Uncle Ginsters says that would not be 'Sun friendly' but it does reflect the value of the individuals concerned. The alternative would be to cease the constant erosion of T&Cs but that nice Mr Osborne is unlikely to let that happen.

[RAFpilot23]

StitchBitch the problem is everyone is leaving! The RAF knows that there is a shortage but they are doing the usual thing or burying their head in the sand with a 'it will be OK'.

All it means is that people leave, the people left gets pissed off at working more, they leave and round and round it goes!

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

no retention pay for 6 years for aircrew


That's not quite accurate. I agree with the general thrust of your post though!


The RAF knows that there is a shortage but they are doing the usual thing or burying their head in the sand with a 'it will be OK'.


Maybe after next week it will all be okay...at least Manning will be hoping so...

[Just This Once...]

Maybe after next week it will all be okay...at least Manning will be hoping so...

No kidding as there are quite a few in the military corridors of secretly power hoping for deep cuts to military personnel.

We have 'enjoyed' decades of cuts and quite simply we have no idea how to stabilise the manning figures as we only manage decline. If the SDSR froze us at the rough manning levels and capabilities we have today it would be carnage - when did we last manage to train enough to balance out the numbers that leave?

[Ascoteer]

Quote:
no retention pay for 6 years for aircrew

That's not quite accurate. I agree with the general thrust of your post though

This is something lodged with the Pay Colonel's office right now for announcement early next year; no flying pay until end of initial 6 year return of service (although some sort of lump sum at that point)....plus an increase of flying pay tiers after that at a cost to public purse of around £10mil

[High_Expect]

It's ok just this once - I'm sure Ascent have loads of spare capcity in "their" system and loads of spare QFIs just waiting in the wings.

Let's face facts. The RAF fell well below self sustaining levels years ago. Sadly it has taken this long for the Airships to wake up.

Ps. A huge amount of Fast Jet QFI opportunities are about to open up in the ME. I know it's not for everyone but personally I love it. If they paid the FRI every 3months they might match the take-home. Too little to late and they only have themselves to blaim. Come on over chaps the water's lovely.

[Just This Once...]

It's ok just this once - I'm sure Ascent have loads of spare capcity in "their" system and loads of spare QFIs just waiting in the wings.

Ahhh yes indeed, my worries were unfounded. I shall sleep well tonight!

:D

[Selatar]

The RAF has shrunk from 50 thousand to a shade over 31 thousand in circa 9 years. In October, 150 left without being replaced. Stopping the decline in numbers appears to be beyond the capability or intent of manning. The RAF is now below what it should be in 2020. A change to the numbers next week may turn all the lights green again at high Wycombe for a while at least.

[Uncle Ginsters]

A change to the numbers next week may turn all the lights green again at high Wycombe for a while at least.

So, if a new fleet were to emerge, say an MPA, that would shaft things royally, right?

[Could be the last?]

Uncle G,

Do you honestly think we are going to get a new fleet of ac/capability........really? Especially now that the PM has just splashed the cash for 1900 more spooks?

[Uncle Ginsters]

Yes. I do.

[RAFpilot23]

I think MPA will be greenlighted.

The flying pay is being taken from the guys at the bottom and give to the guys at the top.

Just storing up problems for 6-7 years time.

[ZeBedie]

We're going to get the P8. It'll be licenced built in this country, will have RR Tay and GEC avionics. Online 2030.

[Could be the last?]

G,

As you are obviously in the know, or you can see the future - could you let me know what the lottery numbers are for Saturday's draw.......cheers

[Uncle Ginsters]

Not at all, CBTL,

This is a rumour site, after all, and those are my thoughts; our lack of MPA has exposed us and the higher powers know that needs to be remedied.

I'm convinced the lottery is fixed...judging by my own poor record, at least. :/

[Professor Plum]

Well given the following announcement....

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-pledges-178-billion-investment-in-defence-kit

...manning aren't going to want many pilots leaving!

[Ken Scott]

No, with 2 new Typhoon sqns plus the 24 crews for the P8, that's a lot of extra pilots (maybe 78), WSOs & don't forget all the maintainers.

Given earlier announcements re no incremental pay etc I can't help but think that there will be less emphasis in the SDSR on people compared to kit.

[3 bladed beast]

For me it was the pension change. I don't have long to go and fully intend to leave with my tax free lump sum and pension for life.

Every other erosion of 'Ts and Cs' might seem just like whining and we've heard them all before, so I won't repeat.

Sadly, on the Sqn that I work on, I'm seeing practically all of my generation leave ( mainly for the airlines, but not all) simply because they're tired of it all.

I understand that the RAF is now short of QFI's, so I can really see problems ahead.

And more alarmingly, a good majority of the generation below me ( 30-35) have their licenses ready to go.

[Professor Plum]

3-bladed.

I'm from that 30-35 generation, and I'm eyeing up my options outside, as I'm now approaching the end of my 2nd tour, and ROS. I've also seen my mates get made redundant during training.

Something Will need to change soon, as there is a 3 year generation who saw their mates get made redundant, have experienced reductions in t&c / pension, who are eyeing up the airlines (who are recruiting!).

[3 bladed beast]

They're recruiting and i'm applying!!! ;-)

Those cuts were harsh for all - I saw a lot of those guys through EFT, to a 2 year hold and potentially no aircraft to go to ( sdsr 2010).

It was so obvious that there was an issue, but we kept pumping them through the training system, only for the inevitable chop to happen.

That in turn caused misery, dis trust and a erosion of any loyalty left.

When you add it all together, there have been large financial erosions ( we are still paid very well) and small and frequent changes in our terms and conditions without ANY say.

Enough for me - I'm trying to leave as the fairly positive guy of 17 years, but it's getting tough!

[RAFpilot23]

The fleet I am on is just the same.

Think 50k for three years is going to have limited takers on my fleet. Everyone is working on earning 10k above their RAF salary a year without all the triv, etc.

Think something needs to be done and fast!