Good-sized heli 5 pax

[FerrypilotDK]

Any recommendations for a 5 pax heli? (duck for incoming!)

Looked at MD520 and on paper it looks great, but you don´t see them. So why?

….other ideas?

Thanks

[krypton_john]

Pilot + 5 pax?

Need more details. Weight/baggage/range/altitude/temp requirements?

But there's really only AS350 isn't there?

Or if it is pilot + 4 pax then B206/EC120B/MD500.

How important is passenger comfort? If important then forget about MD500 and B206 leaving EC120B but if you want decent range and full people and bags then forget about that too and stick with the AS350.

[RyRy]

A 206L is a fair option, but baggage space isn't great if the pax carry more than a day bag.

[md 600 driver]

You can't get 5 pax in a 520

[Gordy]

A 206L is a fair option, but baggage space isn't great if the pax carry more than a day bag.

Not really...get an L4 with Tracs and the baggage extender..... I have picked up 950 lbs of of people and baggage, at 9,000' 25C and 90 minutes fuel....

[FerrypilotDK]

The comparison site I was using defined capacity as "the number of people that can comfortably be seated in the helicopter, including the pilot."

I thought this was a bit misleading, as normally I would exclude pilot from "pax" but I went along with it. I have a family of four, 2 adults and two children…and baggage, to move. As as far as range in concerned, 120 miles does it, so everything seems to manage that(!)

The same site comparison had 520 with 48 cu ft baggage and 204 nm range.

I added the AS350 and see that it is no more expensive to buy, is larger and faster, but (according to them) uses more fuel.

Still a good addition to the list. Thanks guys!

[FerrypilotDK]

Thanks Gordy. Shows up as slower than average, but seems to be a real carrier.

[nigelh]

350 will cost easily double of a 500 to run/ maintain . Also if you don't yet have licence the 500 will be cheaper on insurance too . My advice is stick with C20 engine and don't go ever buy turbomeca unless you have very deep pockets . I know of v nice 500E ( not mine ..!!) coming up ...

[md 600 driver]

Ferry pilot
That comparison site you was looking at does not read correctly
In a 520 you can fit 5 persons if you have a left hand pilot version take out the dual controls and fit a mini seat in the front

[FerrypilotDK]

It is these guys

Best Helicopter Comparison - Prices, Specs, Photos (http://helicopters.axlegeeks.com)

Seemed a useful tool, but if the info is not accurate, then it is worse than nothing.

[Hughes500]

How about a Bell 407 !

[Spunk]

As most of the times I agree with Hughes500: Bell407 would be my choice.
Comfort for your pax' and power for the pilot:ok::ok::ok:

[Flyting]

an AS 350 BA or an EC 120
More than enough space and power for a small family and the distance you need it for.

The 520 has no space. It's a great machine for 2 + baggage...

Start off with an old Jetty and see how it goes... They'll be going cheaper soon :}

Rent for the first year and go from there

[John R81]

The EC 120 is a great machine whilst your children are small and the luggage compartment is massive. If your children are 90kg it is another story, as you will run out of fwd balance. You don't have the reserves of power of a 350 but you don't have the fuel consumption either and maintenance is relatively beign 9cost wise) due to the modern design. More comfortable passenger experience than a 206 (any mark) in my opinion. Very much more confortable than the 500.


Best advice is to look around for machines you can go an actually sit in / take a look around. Some owners will share maintenance history with you also.


If you are anywhere near London Gatwick then PM me if you want to look around / chat. (No, I am not selling my machines).

[nigelh]

I may well be wrong but i think the Bell 505 will have a huge effect on the price of all current 4/5 place single turbines . Around $1m for a brand new twin fadec , 125knot machine with open plan cockpit , large luggage bay , plenty of power , full glass cockpit , synthetic vision etc etc
Why would you want to spend anywhere near that amount on an old dated machine with steam driven cockpit ??
I may be proved wrong if it doesn't come up to scratch ...but if it does then all those machines will take a big tumble in resale value .

[Agile]

honestly, I still cannot get other the look of the 505,
I know I am supposed to be more rational,
I know there is a lot of value in the box,
just the box is so ugly.

[belly tank]

Hi Ferry Pilot,

In a former life I operated an AS350B2 and B3 and the Turbomeca is very expensive to operate if something goes awry let alone routine maintenance.

Have you thought about the AS350SD2 which has the lycoming LTS 101-700 engine conversion same horsepower as the B2 but with the lower fuel burn and much cheaper operating costs to the Turbomeca, its worth checking out.:ok:

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/EUROCOPTER-AS-350SD2/1994-EUROCOPTER-AS-350SD2/1312961.htm

HeliHub Strong 2013 demand for Soloy AS350 SD2 engine conversion kits (http://helihub.com/2013/07/10/strong-demand-in-2013-for-soloy-as350-engine-conversion-kits/)

[Arrrj]

Gents,

Don't forget that the Bell 505 (I like the look...now), uses
the Turbomeca Arrius 2R.

Heaven knows why, as everything you hear about them is bad news.

I'd buy a 505 if it had a RR, like the R66, which is proving to be very reliable and cheap to run.

Arrrj

PS _ JohnR81 - have you moved your machines from Redhill to Gatwick ?

[nigelh]

Yes , but the 505 has effectively PBH so you will not get any unforeseen engine bills and will be guaranteed a loan engine while yours is being fixed .
I agree that a RR engine would make me feel a lot happier ...!!!

[FLY 7]

The limiting factor for most helicopter purchases is normally the cost - the initial purchase price and then the on-going operating costs.


Is there a budget?

[CRAZYBROADSWORD]

Ha this question has been asked over and over again and anyone retarded enough to ask it could not possibly have the funds to actually buy a machine and is just trolling to see which fools reply !

If you have enough money to buy a helicopter then go fly every machine you can afford and make you own bloody mind up as different horses for different courses .

CBS

Xx

[nigelh]

Sounds like somebody got out of bed on the wrong side Crazy ...??
I can see you point but things change and I know at least three friends that bought totally wrong helicopters for themselves .... Never asked me for advice ...and it cost them dearly !! Things evolve , for instance a Gazelle would have been on my list 5-10 years ago but not now . I wouldn't buy a 300 now but it was a good helicopter to own 5 years ago . Asking around is all part of the fun of taking that leap and buying your first helicopter ! Anyway I am saying MD500 will hold it value for ever , 206 , EC120 will tank in value but are good first turbines so you will have to drive a hard bargain and buy well .

[500guy]

The 500 is the best ship ever made for utility work. But it is not very passenger friendly. The back seats are small, there is not a baggage area and the fuel tank is small. I would go with the AS350. A B2 or BA is nowhere near 2X as expensive to run as a 520. Its 15-25% more. But it also seats 4+1 pilot comfortably 5+1 if the 4 in back are all small. It has a baggage area, It has great range, will be easier to maintain. The only other consideration for me would be the 407.

[nigelh]

Im presuming you are a pilot and dont pay the bills ?? trust me a 350 is hugely more expensive to run and i have owned and operated both for years !!

[B407]

B407, of course. Fill the tanks, fill the seats and cruise at 140 knots effortlessly! Smooth, quiet, fast! Baggage box is not huge but generous for a light helo.

[Sam Rutherford]

So what did you buy in the end?

[RVDT]

The 505 is NOT a Jetbox.

They'll be going cheaper soon

I'm picking the 206 will appreciate. One look at the 505 in the flesh and it does not look "durable". I bet you they will not last in service like a 206.

This machine will be crap at utility work.

Pilot plus 5 = AS350BA on short legs. Short legs = speed and low vibration. Should true 130 knots easily.

Operated long and short side by side - short gear wins.

"B" engine is bullet proof and well proven. Put the engine on PBH if you are concerned.

Don't fly it like a 206 - operate at an altitude where the bleed valve closes.

Take off Power and MCP is the same in BA.

MCP Max Torque or Bleed valve closed whichever comes first. Preferably the sweet spot where both occur.

Just sayin'.

[FlimsyFan]

I love the Squirrel, and as a current R66 operator (yeah, I know), its a logical next step to aspire towards.

I was told recently by an Engineer that the Squirrel and H130 both require an Engineer inspection on Main and tail rotors every 10hrs. Is this correct??

I guess its fine if you're based at an airfield with a qualified Engineer, but for us at a private site it would be a nightmare. Would be a real show stopper for me. Be interested to hear if this is the case.

FF

[Gordy]

I was told recently by an Engineer that the Squirrel and H130 both require an Engineer inspection on Main and tail rotors every 10hrs. Is this correct??

Here in the US, depending upon which FSDO you are in, it requires a sign off daily. (The daily inspection is in the MX books NOT the flight manual).

[Sir Korsky]

Do it properly and get a S76. Decent B models around $1m and DOCs of $2500 per hour. Comfort, speed and reliability with 6 to 8 folk back there depending on config.

[RVDT]

with 6 to 8 folk back there depending on config

That would be the mechanics to look after it? :}

[FlimsyFan]

Here in the US, depending upon which FSDO you are in, it requires a sign off daily. (The daily inspection is in the MX books NOT the flight manual).

Thanks Gordy. More research required locally before I take the plunge. We are based about 35 mins flight time from nearest Approved Maintenance Organisation, so even at 10 hr intervals it would be a massive inconvenience, unless Airbus prepared to train us and sign off to inspect.

I can't believe the mighty workhorse that is the B3 would need an engineer every 10 hours (or daily!), whilst the humble R66 is annually or every 100hrs...

[Nubian]

Thanks Gordy. More research required locally before I take the plunge. We are based about 35 mins flight time from nearest Approved Maintenance Organisation, so even at 10 hr intervals it would be a massive inconvenience, unless Airbus prepared to train us and sign off to inspect.

I can't believe the mighty workhorse that is the B3 would need an engineer every 10 hours (or daily!), whilst the humble R66 is annually or every 100hrs...

There is a SB out for inspection of the new-type elastomeric t/r pitch-rods on the B3 every 10 hours for delimitation, but you can as PIC be task-trained to perform this.

[Sir Korsky]

That would be the mechanics to look after it? :}

yes, you sure will need a mechanic to give you 3 of his hours for every flight hour. They're ten-a-penny anyway, least of your woes.

[FlimsyFan]

There is a SB out for inspection of the new-type elastomeric t/r pitch-rods on the B3 every 10 hours for delimitation, but you can as PIC be task-trained to perform this.

Thanks for clarifying. That's interesting as he said it applied also to the H130. I'm not an expert but pretty sure that has a fenestron. He also mentioned M/R - he was based in US, so potentially a different issue.

Task-training would work!

Cheers

FF

[Nubian]

Thanks for clarifying. That's interesting as he said it applied also to the H130. I'm not an expert but pretty sure that has a fenestron. He also mentioned M/R - he was based in US, so potentially a different issue.

Task-training would work!

Cheers

FF

The only SB regarding 10 flight hours is for the new type t/r pitch-rods which came out with the B3e model.

Generally speaking, the daily inspection is based on the MX manual as Gordy says, so it generally will need a technician to sign it out. However, a yearly technical brush-up and with an authorisation to perform the inspection on behalf of the Continuing Airworthiness Management Organisation, the pilots can accept an aircraft for up to 100 flight hours. This SB is a visual inspection for delaminating or excessive wear, and not really more thorough than I would do on a normal pre-flight inspection. It is also not applicable to the older/(normal ball-type) pitch-links found on all older models, unless these are modified.