Which Airlines Have the Best Package In The Gulf region

[born to suffer]

I notesd that when I talk to the pilots who works for the major airlines in the region, usually they are not happy with their total income ( which is the human nature:)), however the serprise is that every single pilot claim that his company is paying the less salary between them all,
For example, emirates pilots claim that Qatar, Etihad and Saudi Airlines pilots are being payed more than them, And the same story will hear it from Saudi pilots, Etihad pilots,etc,.

So, I thought if it possible for pprune captains and First officer
To spare few minutes of their time and clearify this matter by stating their companies and their total income.

[donpizmeov]

Right after you.

[olster]

Noticed, surprise, paid and clarify.

I know everyone detests the spelling police but are we really so thick as a profession that we can't have a go at getting it right..?

Emirates has a Provident Fund plus bonus scheme ( variable depending on corporate performance). Traditionally this would make EK the region's market leader in terms of remuneration. However, a keen observer of the ME section could surmise that money isn't everything...

Cheers

[Airmann]

Not enough to get the REALLY hot chicks. Just the the sort of....averagely hot ones.

[a-ricky-town]

I am actually interested in this thread. I would like to try long haul before I retire from flying and taking the advantage that I don't have any financial nor personal commitment here in Europe that keeps me captive I would also like to know which of the three options would you recommend for that purpose.

I am more inclined towards EK than QR or the "nEYmless airline" on the grounds of salary, location and hiring opportinities but if anyone has a different point of view I would like to listen to it.

Flying full time for EZY is not a long term option either.

First Officer.

[Left Coaster]

If you're going to correct...it's actually remuneration...just sayin'...Careful!

[natops]

Well, it doesnt start with an E....

[olster]

Correct Left Coaster. I would be the first to admit that I can get grammar, punctuation and spelling wrong but at least I try to get it right. I appreciate that English is not always the first language here but I am amazed at times that a professional pilot's forum can display such poor literacy. Call me a bluff old traditionalist...However, it was almost inevitable that I should make a spelling mistake of my own so I will take it on the chin.

Cheers

[170to5]

Wow, a spelling bee..

Okay, I'll help to invigilate!

brokenenglish, you are 100% incorrect.

Region's is correct and regions is incorrect in the context of olster's statement, as he is talking about a single region, the Middle East. Were he talking about several regions, you would still have been incorrect as in that situation, he would have to write regions'.

What was the original question anyway, something about ELP?

[Neptunus Rex]

It stems from the Latin muner meaning Dosh

To the original question, the best remuneration in the Gulf region is...
Qatar.

[ExDubai]

Not enough to get the REALLY hot chicks. Just the the sort of....averagely hot ones.

The inflation in Dubai sucks.....

[Pointer]

Anyone can help me spell "Wancker"? :ugh:

Really?? you call yourselfs "professional" pilots.. := and instead of helping each other.. someone launshing a genuine question.. and albeit an interesting one.. you have to have a go at someone?? makes you feel better doesn't it? :ok:

I think he was just pissed when he wrote it.. sounds more than plausible..

Pointer :E

[olster]

To answer the original poster's question is not simple. The respective packages at the ME3 airlines are made up of constituent parts including generally basic income, productivity pay, overnight allowances and some form of End of Service benefit that is based on time served. Also there will be Accommodation Allowance or accommodation provided depending on the actual airline. If you are a parent there is an Education Allowance for children, usually up to 19 years old. EK provides a Provident Fund for retirement and also a ( controversial) Bonus scheme which was quite lucrative last financial year.

There is probably not a huge difference between the ME3 in overall income but subtle differences in each company. The Staff Travel is generally very good, not all would agree but you would have access to cheap tickets in all classes plus a smattering of free tickets per year. Outside the ME3 you could consider Air Arabia, flydubai. Oman Air and I suppose you would find variations on the same theme. For example I believe that the original Air Arabia captains were on a very good income but based on very high flying hours - not everyone's cup of tea.

Saudia is anecdotally the highest payer but there is an obvious reason for that. In summary you are unlikely to find anyone who will publish their payslips on here but the packages are made up of constituent parts that reflect the expat nature of the job.

And finally for Pointer: no, it does not make me feel good about myself to correct spelling mistakes nor does it give me a feeling of 'superiority'. I did partly answer the question originally but felt that the poster was below the bar grammatically; I get frustrated with the 'spelling police' myself. Predictably, I also made a spelling error. The reply was generally meant in a light - hearted way so your reaction tends to make me think that you are the onanist of this thread, not others.

[littlejet]

Alrosa Mirny Air Enterprise Flight 514 was a domestic scheduled passenger flight from Udachny, Russia, to Moscow. On 7 September 2010, the Tupolev Tu-154M RA-85684 aircraft suffered a complete electrical failure en route, leading to a loss of navigational systems. The electrically operated fuel transfer pumps were also affected, meaning that the aircraft was unable to reach its intended destination. An emergency landing was carried out at the closed Izhma Airport. The aircraft overran the disused runway on landing and was damaged.
All nine crew and 72 passengers escaped unharmed.

The pilots used a glass of water as their reference ADI

They do not speak a word of English.

[Wizofoz]

The pilots used a glass of water as they reference ADI


That wouldn't work. Have you seen the Bob Hoover Ice Tea video?

[misd-agin]

Who cares about the cash. Who's scoring more often?

[littlejet]

EY's but they're not allowed to brag on these forums

[born to suffer]

Thank you very much to the all pilots who stood up for me:ok:

And dear olster, Please accept my apology , I have been spoiled by the auto correction function on my lap top.
Promise you to put more effort in order to improve my spelling, however, not promising you much on the grammar :)

[olster]

No problem at all Born to Suffer. I didn't intend your thread to take a turn to discussions on grammar / spelling. However, I couldn't help myself after your original post. Despite your name it is not my intention to make you suffer any more! I hope my latter post was more constructive and at least made an attempt at a reasonable response to your question. The pilots in this region have differing packages depending on the carrier that they work for. It is hard to say who makes the most in purely monetary terms but I think Saudia would be the most likely. The pilot community out here, including me, tend to look at the '**** bucket' versus 'happiness' bucket. That is a crude analogy but lifestyle issues are broadly more important than just cash. Flying to the limit and perpetual fatigue / jet lag do not make for happy pilots - refer to adjacent threads. I hope that this helps.

Rgds,

Olster

[Left Coaster]

Your subsequent post (with perfect elocution and grammar may I say!) regarding the ME3 and the various packages was really very good, and most informative. I want to apologize for the call out on your previous, it was just sitting there waiting for a poke...glad you have a sense of humour about it.
Cheers,
LC

[olster]

No need to apologise, Left Coaster. You were spot on and I enjoyed the only too predictable irony. I am old fashioned enough to wince when I see poor grammar / spelling but 'modern' enough ( I guess!) not to be too anal. I do have a sense of humour and trust me, it is a much needed qualification for survival as a pilot in the ME regardless of the size of the 'package'.

B/rgds,

Olster

[skidbuggy]

No need to apologize, Left Coaster. You were spot on and I enjoyed the only too predictable irony. I am old fashioned enough to wince when I see poor grammar / spelling but 'modern' enough ( I guess!) not to be too anal. I do have a sense of humour and trust me, it is a much needed qualification for survival as a pilot in the ME regardless of the size of the 'package'.

B/rgds,

Olster

Fixed it for you 👍🏻

[The Crew]

The unmentionable airline's pay is on the website plus most allowances. Its not as great as you would imagine and the tax free bit makes little differences as the basic is adjusted downwards accordingly.

I believe the best pay would be in the far east, China and Hong Kong. depends on
your status and long term or short term view.

Is EZY really that bad these days?

[CDRW]

Olster's or is it Olsters or Olsters' was spot on. Simple numbers of basic pay doth not paint even a small part of the work picture. The education allowance is a significant factor ( should it be applicable). Take your time and vet all three.

There was a large movement of QR pilots to (not EK) a few years ago. That trend has actually reversed ! Just a few but it is happening .

Good luck.

[Airmann]

This website Pilot Jobs Network - Recruitment news for airline pilots and aviation schools (http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/) has salaries listed for QR, EK and EY. This ends the debate quickly. So long as its accurate.

[scandistralian]

I have a friend with a young family evaluating the top 3, are there any restrictions on First Officers with children travelling in business with Qatar?

[harry the cod]

Whilst that may seem like an important perk, especially if home is a 14 hour flight away, J class travel for kids shouldn't be a prime deal breaker for your friend. Overall quality of life (work vs leisure time), education (quality & cost), general living environment, accommodation (location & standard), Company culture (punitive vs Just) route network and time to command should all feature above that. Some may disagree? Either way, a difficult decision for sure.

Sadly, 7 or so years ago it would have been much easier.

Harry

[polax52]

Demand for Pilots is so high within the region and the overall packages of all of the big 3 or 4 is so similar that you have to at least suspect collusion and wage fixing. In some cases it's also difficult to leave one to move to another.

[gatbusdriver]

12 years old for kids in business. I tend to leave them at home unless the wife is travelling with them in economy.

[lospilotos]

12 years old for kids in business. I tend to leave them at home unless the wife is travelling with them in economy.

Don't know what airline you are referring to but for EK it's 13 years old for kids in business, unless you are a captain then it's ok, because captain kids are more well behaved.

[gatbusdriver]

It was in reference to QR.

[NG_Kaptain]

The "other airline" has no restrictions in business class, under 12's not allowed in first class. Captains only can buy ID90 F but all staff can buy ID50 F. I never buy ID50 F, it's too expensive.

[Chocks Away]

"Demand for Pilots in the region is so high..."

So true Polax and it won't decrease any time soon, especially for experienced ones. So far as slaries go, SV leaves them all well behind plus zero tax and very cheap cost of living. They haven't got a fraction of the qualified crew they require this year and they need ~350 / year up to 2020!

The other 3 "over tha back fence" continue to seek similar numbers too.

Of course there's a few negatives and a few positives in any place and that remains for the individual to assess.

Happy Landings:ok:

[polax52]

Chocks: Basic Salary at SV is below Emirates and on the A330, Embraer and 747 you take little more than basic salary home.


Don't forget that Emirates had profit sharing this year, something in the order of 4-6 months salary plus they get per diem, flight pay and productivity. I would think that on average they are not far short of doubling their basic salary. They get a provident fund on top.


I agree if you're on the 777 or the A320 at SV and you chose to work your socks off then you may do marginally better than Emirates. "Leaves them well behind".....This is not a true statement.


The reality is there is collusion between these 4 companies regarding salary budgets and none really over pays compared to another. Within SV though their is significant disparity between fleets making some fleets look over paid and others under paid.

[V1cutz]

Doubling of our basic salary at Emirates?? LOL. Now that's funny. No where close to doubling. Productivity? Even as short as we are scheduling somehow manages to get you just shy of productivity every month. I'm sure they're are some who go into productivity but not enough to justify to others to join this place. 4 or 6 month bonus? Wrong again...someone correct me but I think it was only 9 weeks. Even with record profits, the days of 6 month profit shares are long gone!

[SOPS]

4 to 6 months profit share.. What are you smoking?

[polax52]

4 to 6 months profit share.. What are you smoking?

Well I'm certainly not drinking....

That 9 weeks was the first of 2 installments. That's what I heard. Was that misinformation??

[Wizofoz]

Yes, that was misinformation- it was 9 weeks and that's all.

Profit share has been as high as 14 weeks and as low as zero in the last decade- probably averaging about 4 weeks- so way short of what you've been told.

Productivity is still set at a stupidly high mark of 88 hours in a 31 day month- and that doesn't include things like sim and ground-shcools, so so guys are getting a bit, but that just means they are working to hard!!

Not the smartest thing to come on a site populated by a large group from a particular airline and tell them how much they earn!!!

[polax52]

Ok then Wizo: so that no more misinformation goes out from idiots like me, tell us. You take 10 Emirates guys from different fleets add all of their income together including productivity, this years profit share, per diem, provident fund etc. Divide it appropriately to give an individual monthly average, what do you get??

[Wizofoz]

Well- I'm guessing average stick hours across the fleets is about 90 hours- so 88 hours flight pay, 2 hours productivity.

We don't get per diems. We get a small cash allowence when on overnights (ZERO for turn arounds) which just about covers food and nothing else, so I'm not counting that.

Employer Provident fund contribution is 12%.

Why use this years profit share? It was at the high end and very unlikely to be repeated any time soon- let's use my average of 4 weeks.

I came up with 1.24x basic salary.

Using 9 weeks I came up with 1.28.

SOME are doing 96 hours, which would make it around 1.4- but obviously by working their tail off (Remember- an hour here is an hour flying the aircraft- no such thing as "credit" hours, loading etc.)

So, nothing like you were quoting based on what you'd "heard"- when you know there are people who have accurate information, why not just ask?

[polax52]

Thanks wizo: That pretty well makes my point that there is no real significant difference between the major gulf Airlines. At SV you'd probably average between 1.2 and 1.4 times basic based on a lower basic than EK. That is outside of the 777 and the 320.


The good days of the 777 at SV are numbered though as there are signicant numbers of guys coming through training currently, there's only 2 more 777's to come in the short term and fairly soon they will start to phase out the 777-200. The growth fleet at SV will be the A330.

[797]

EK: joined in 2000, capt since 2003.
moved out of company accommodation
all in aed

basic: 50.520.-
housing per month: 16.070.- (192.900.- p.a)
flight pay per month average: 4.261.-/month (was 51.137.- the last 12 months)
profit share in 2015: average 8.454.-/month (was 101.447.- p.a)
provident fund average. 2.472.- (29.674 last 12 months)
package for me in total: 81.777.- per month

schooling mostly paid if you have kids
productivity was 90.- (ninety) in 12 months

but leaving because of unsustainable workload (95hrs in 30 days, not one ulr) and unbearable company culture

good luck

[puff m'call]

a-ricky-town

If you want to do Long-Haul DON'T join EK

We are the only 777 operator who's put the pilots crew rest in the back of the A/C and its crap, the others all have the proper rest facility in the front behind the flight deck. Very nice.

It's cramped, noisy and in the ceiling at the very back of the A/C, ten bunks, two for pilots, eight for the crew. They get progressively smaller as you go forward and ours are at the very end, the smallest of them all. you can't even sit up in them, no joke, it's crap.

I joined EK to do Long-Haul, now I don't bother. I've not been to most of our destinations because of the appalling crew rest. My dogs at home have more sleeping space!!!