Bent airframes

[morrisman68]

Apologies from a Newbie arm-chair enthusiast.

My brother flew, among other things, the Vickers Valiant and told me once that one of them always flew oddly, the airframe having been bent during some energetic manoeuvring to rid it of a 'weapon', though whether a shape or a live one during trials I never did sort out.

Can anyone clarify, please? Was/is it commonplace for airframes to have 'personalities' in this way?

Many thanks, in advance!

[peppermint_jam]

From an engineers point of view, I would agree with this to a certain extent. Tornado GR1/4 ZA607 caused us much heartache over about a 2 year period with a horrible main computer fault. I seem to remember reading somewhere that Avro Vulcan XL444 (lovingly refered to as trembling whore!) was a horrible aircraft for the Engineers too.

[[email protected]]

If you have ever seen a main rotor gearbox being put (manfully inserted) into a Sea King, you would know that no 2 airframes are identical:ok:

[ian16th]

Not a bent air-frame, but in the early 60's 13 Sqdn at Akrotiri had a Canberra PR9 that flew slightly crabwise.

The Green Satin Doppler radar aerial was adjusted a degree or so, to correct this apparent navigation error.

[Danny42C]

morrisman68,

Welcome into the great Brotherhood of PPRuNe !

Not commonplace, although every aircraft varies slightly, and there are known "rogues", but not so many now as in earlier years.

Was a story (for which I cannot vouch) that a Varsity was once "snagged" for strange trim problems.

Investigation revealed that the fin/rudder assembly was several degrees off vertical, more digging disclosed that it had been (illicitly) barrel-rolled by some miscreant who had kept quiet about it.

Danny42C.

[Jackonicko]

Many years ago, I was writing an article about what it was like to fly the Hawker Fury. In doing so, I got to meet and interview a host of really lovely old gentlemen who had, in their youth, flown the aircraft.

One of them was Air Chief Marshal Sir Theodore Neuman 'Teddy' McEvoy KCB CBE, who wrote a short piece for us about the handling quirks of one particular Fury, which he described as a rogue.

The problem obviously goes back to the dawn of aviation!

[Bengo]

There was a whole chunk in the Naval Aircraft Maintenance Manual (NAMMS) on what to do with a rogue aircraft, how to get one certified as such and how to get rid of it.

Then there was XV227- one of the pre-production Lynx HAS Mk1's- It was near impossible to get it avionic systems serviceable simultaneously and any correspondence between the topic 10 wiring diagrams and the actual aircraft was apparently a coincidence. I think it was eventually 'sold' to Pakistan. XV699 was the complete opposite- always serviceable.

N

[John Eacott]

XV699 was the complete opposite- always serviceable.

N

I guess we have differing ideas of what is considered "always serviceable" ;)

http://www.eacott.com.au/gallery/d/1267-1/824+Sea+King+051+recovery+with+fire+fighting+foam+overall.jp g

Yes, XV699 as 051 on 824NAS :p

[Arkroyal]

13 Sqdn at Akrotiri had a Canberra PR9 that flew slightly crabwise.

:D :D

Thanks Ian16th

We had a very bent F27 on Channex which was a tiring night's work

[morrisman68]

Thank you, gentlemen, for reminiscences.

I often wondered whether this died out with the demise of hand-built and fitted airframes, though I suppose a determined airframe driver could bend anything, FBW permitting! And even then, we wonders...

[Pontius Navigator]

Danny may recall that in addition to George, some aircraft had Gremlins.

There was the odd bent Vulcan around. One was overstressed by OC Bomber Wing when showing off on departure from Tehran. He didn't report the overstress and it was only discovered when an airman tripped on the wing ripple. He had at first thought the air brakes were out.

[ShyTorque]

230 Sqn RAF had Puma HC1, XW222. From my time in the late 70s & early 80s it was known as "Trembling two", because it vibrated differently to all the others. I understand this airframe hasn't been upgraded/remanufactured into HC2 spec.

Maybe they never did cure it.

[camelspyyder]

Then there was XV227- one of the pre-production Lynx HAS Mk1's

I knew that particular Nimrod was a rogue - now I find out it was a disguised Lynx:)



I have flown a C152 made from the best bits of 2 crashed ones. That was more "interesting" to fly than the others at the club.

[NutLoose]

There was a rogue Wellington bomber during the war that was pulled off ops due to its tendency to fly around in circles, after intensive investigation they found a section of geodetric was missing from a stabiliser resulting in it flexing up and causing the problems.

I know of a lowly Cessna 152 that would yaw badly in flight, but cure itself at lower speeds and it took ages to find out the reason, it had the later wing mounted landing lights and at cruise the perspex leading edge cover was vibrating across and opening the internal wing up to the airflow, as it decreased speed it vibrated shut and was like that on the ground. Took the poor engineer ages to find it, and he only did when after one flight it didn't fully shut.

..

[bluetail]

Nimrod MR2 XV251 was a known bent airframe, it needed a couple of degrees of rudder trim on to make it fly straight, it was banned from doing flying displays and in the front of its F700 had a statement as such.

[RFCC]

At Honington a Buccaneer returned from the range sans Underwing Tanks, Flaps, Pitot tube, CBLs and various other bits and pieces. As part of the rectification we carried out a symmetry check in the hangar - spot on, did it again - same result!

However, the Hawker Siddley rep produced documents that has demonstrated that it had previously been known as a rogue aircraft - bent. It was ex-Navy and apparently swung to port on take-off.

Our enthusiastic pilot had straightened it for us.

[Arclite01]

I flew a Viking that had a habit of dropping a wing at the stall (to the left), if you flew it slow it would always drop that wing, despite reporting it several times nothing could be found including after a geometry check. Still reported as No Fault Found !!!

Even odder was if it got chilly and we got condensation on the parked aircraft, that particular Viking would always have the port wing with condensation on it well before any of the others !! (cant remember the tail number).

I never enjoyed flying that one when I appeared on the rota for it..............


Arc

[26er]

1955, 34 Squadron, Tangmere. We had a Meteor F8 WF742 which was very twisted and no amount of twitching could straighten it. Eventually all the trim tabs were set to zero and I offered to fly it to the MU at Aston Down. As I accelerated down the runway the left wing began to go down and once airborne I was unable to fly wings level above 180 knots. The landing was unusual. God knows what happened to it though it turned out that a mate was the unit test pilot there and he was not grateful for my gift.

[ShyTorque]

Part way through my RAF flying scholarship, back in the dark ages, the civvy flying school received a C150 which wouldn't fly straight and in balance at the same time after a post-accident rebuild. It always dropped the left wing at the stall.

It was allocated to me and my instructor for a check ride; I had to spin it. From a normal entry it entered the spin very rapidly, flicked then settled and spun inverted, whereupon the engine promptly stopped. My instructor looked very surprised and asked me how I intended to recover. I said I would try easing back on the yoke after full opposite rudder, he nodded. It came out of the spin very quickly and the engine restarted itself as I raised the nose. The instructor abandoned the flight and the aircraft was taken off the flying programme. It was later found to have the wings rigged at different angles!

[camlobe]

WL747 was an interesting airframe. One particular occasion required an aircraft as a backdrop for an event. The new BWENGO (Baby Wraf Eng O) carefully measured and marked two rectangles on the hangar floor, equidistant from the centre line.

"Do you want the aircraft on the centreline, or do you want the wheels in your nice little boxes?" Asks I. High pitched childish tirade as a response, so I suggested I would park the old grey lady with the wheels inside her little boxes. More high pitched childish noises because the aircraft was obviously not straight on the centre line. Her little mind could not accept such an aircraft could possible be bent, and went off to whine at SENGO. When they both returned, I had repositioned the aircraft centered along the line. SENGO took little WRAF away and gave her a good talking too, and explained that, yes, the RAF still operate aircraft that may well be slightly out of true, and she should accept the fact.

The main wheels were around two inches offset from her boxes.

Camlobe

P. S. Rumour has it that she latched onto a Bucc mate. Felt sorry for him.

[GeeRam]

1955, 34 Squadron, Tangmere. We had a Meteor F8 WF742 which was very twisted and no amount of twitching could straighten it. Eventually all the trim tabs were set to zero and I offered to fly it to the MU at Aston Down. As I accelerated down the runway the left wing began to go down and once airborne I was unable to fly wings level above 180 knots. The landing was unusual. God knows what happened to it though it turned out that a mate was the unit test pilot there and he was not grateful for my gift.

Probably didn't make too many flights after you delivered it to Aston Down, as it's listed being given 7320M on 27/02/1956 at Halton, and SOC on 02/06/1960.

[kintyred]

ZH 777....

[izod tester]

Comet 4C XR399 was slightly bent, I was told that it had been on jacks during its first major when the hangar floor subsided slightly. It was trimmed to fly straight but had a higher fuel consumption than the other 4 Comets on 216 Sqn.

Re the suspect strength of hangar floors and hard standings at Lyneham. I was watching XR 398 being towed out of C2 Hangar when the surface under the port u/c dipped as it was towed over. Subsequent investigation by civil engineers found a void about 4 feet under the surface.

[Tankertrashnav]

Instead of flying straight and level, Victor K1 XA 930 tended to fly in a very slow corkscrew which was detectable through the seat of your pants in the back seats. The aircraft had at one time been in the hands of either Boscombe Down or Farnborough, I forget which, and rumour had it that it had once been barrel rolled. Whatever the reason it was definitely "bent"!

[Arclite01]

and an L13 Blanik once that everyone said would not fly right. It had a MASSIVE trim tab riveted onto the port aileron and this was bent fully upwards. Obviously the aircraft was a bit 'out of true' - but not unusual for a metal aeroplane of this type. The Aileron was a bit out of adjustment but it was impossible to adjust within the limits of the control rods.................

When the wing went down after landing it went down with a thump and we never worked out why. After scraping paint off the wing during maintenance we found it was a different wing to the rest of the airframe (obviously a 'bitsa') and had all been oversprayed to match. I assume at some point it had been trashed and it was quicker to fit a new wing than repair the old one. Even more interesting was the fact that the salmon fairing on the wingtip was full of concrete (approx 4lb) that had been injected into the void to try and use the 'law of the lever' to balance the glider............. !!

We fitted a new salmon fairing and the CFI flew it again. The aircraft was completely uncontrollable above 70Kts and poor above 50Kts. It was at this point (after a hasty landing at low speed and full flap) that the GSA scrapped the airframe..........................

Sometimes you just gotta walk away................

Arc

[NutLoose]

Shytorque
Part way through my RAF flying scholarship, back in the dark ages, the civvy flying school received a C150 which wouldn't fly straight and in balance at the same time after a post-accident rebuild. It always dropped the left wing at the stall.

It was allocated to me and my instructor for a check ride; I had to spin it. From a normal entry it entered the spin very rapidly, flicked then settled and spun inverted, whereupon the engine promptly stopped. My instructor looked very surprised and asked me how I intended to recover. I said I would try easing back on the yoke after full opposite rudder, he nodded. It came out of the spin very quickly and the engine restarted itself as I raised the nose. The instructor abandoned the flight and the aircraft was taken off the flying programme. It was later found to have the wings rigged at different angles!

That is correct, that is how you lift a wing on a Cessna 152 / 150, the rear spar bolt is mounted through a concentric bushing, you rotate the bushing to raise or lower the trailing edge of the wing to rig the aircraft for straight and level flight, if it was dropping a wing it simply needed re adjusting on one side, you then adjust both to set the stall at the correct angle of attack..



ADJUSTMENT
(CORRECTING "WING-HEAVY" CONDlTION). (Refer to figure 4-1.) If
considerable control wheel pressure Is required to keep the wings level in normal flight. a
"wing-heavy" condition exists. To remedy this condition. proceed as follows:
a.
Remove wmg root fairing stnp on "wing heavy" side of aircraft.
b.
Loosen nut (10) and rotate eccentnc bushings (8) simultaneously until the bushings
are poslhoned with the thick sides of the eccentrics up. This will lower the trailing
edge of the wing. and decrease "wing-heaviness" by increasing the angle of-
Incidence of the wing.
CAUTION
Be sure to rotate the eccentnc bushmgs simultaneously.
Rotating them separately will destroy the alignment
between the on-center bolt holes in the bushings. thus
exerting a shearing force on the bolt. with possible damage
to the hole in the wing spar fitting.

[Shackman]

There was also a Mk2 Shack that was extremely sensitive in pitch - it had been damaged (IIRC) when someone drove a vehicle into the tail and virtually knocked it off, and the ac was rebuilt. It was only when they were all lined up for a royal visit that the groundcrew found they couldn't line up both front and back of the aircraft - it was some 2 or 3 feet shorter. On the rebuild they had missed out a couple of formers!!

[Rosevidney1]

Apart from 'strange' handling problems there was the matter of weights where no two aircraft in the squadron of the same type, equipment fit or mod state, weighed the same. I can understand redundant electrical wiring and the like being left in situ in large aircraft but it was equally true for a unit of Bell Sioux which had no room to hide anything! Luckily they all flew much the same, cruising at a breathtaking 70 kts.

[Father Jack Hackett]

Try pretty much any Shorts Tucano! Different fuselage lengths (discovered in similar circumstances to the Shack a couple of posts ago), aircraft untrimmable in roll because the wings were different lengths, ejector seats physically jammed into the airframe that wouldn't come back out for servicing.... And they came out of the factory like that!

[Fareastdriver]

One of the Dambusters, Micky Martin, used to complain about his Lancaster being heavy on the elevators. They had to take the elevators off for some reason and that was when they found out that they had been put on upside down.

[longer ron]

One of our Canberras on the OCU (early 70's) came back from a major service and during air test she ran out of nose down down trim at 110 kts (should have been 450ish) - we filed as much as we could off the elevator t/e 'spoilers' but to no avail - after a lengthy investigation it transpired that there were no ballast weights fitted under the cockpit floor :)
The CofG must have been just a little aft !!

[smujsmith]

Gentlemen all, so far we have dealt with designs, hand built usually which will always be subject to "how the fitter" feels that day, often a trait in the Britush aircraft industry from the 40s to the late 60s. I had experience of the RAFs C130 fleet for most of my career a type noted for its factory, mass produced, heritage. Anyone who took XV222 (trembling 2) down route, from Captain to GE will remember how some aircraft just did not conform with design spec.

As an aside, whilst a very enthusiastic RAFGSA member many years ago, I had a problem with an ASK7 which would never fly in a straight, though descending, line for me. It was only after mentioning it a few times that our QFI decided he would do a check ride with me in the beast. Once happily off the winch, I set myself for a stable attitude with all controls centred in the front office. We were obviously yawing rapidly left, and my QFI checker confirmed a huge displacement of the rudder pedals in the rear seating area. Well, once on the ground it was clear that the rigging on the rudder system was not correct, and we remedied it. I wonder how many "studes" fell foul of QFI taunts of incompetence as a result of that simple, technical incompetence.

Smudge :ok:

[Herod]

Many years ago I had the pleasure of a ferry flight of an F27 from Manchester to Norwich. This aircraft had suffered a gear retraction whilst on roll-out (another story). It was certified for one flight, on a permit to fly only. After T/O on Manchester's westerly runway, I made a very gentle turn onto track for NWI, followed by a very gentle turn to land on the westerly at Norwich. The F.O commented that I seemed a bit reluctant to bank. Yes, the thing was dynamically unstable in roll. I don't know what they had to do to correct it, but among other things it involved re-skinning a section of the lower fuselage and replacement of all the lower aerials. I had a letter of thanks from the engineering director for the flight. I should have smelled a rat when all the more senior pilots suddenly found they were too busy.

[Danny42C]

Pontius Navigator (your #11),

Gremlins have always been with us. The Gremlinus Prangiferous was well known for suddenly moving the runway sideways just as you were about to touch down on it.

When I retired, mine came out with me and now divides his time between my car and laptop. Fortunately, he does not seem to be able to be in two places at once !

Danny.

[smujsmith]

What's wrong with your car then Danny ?

Smudge :ok:

[Danny42C]

Smudge,

Mostly I am what is wrong with my "V" reg Toledo !

Gremlin in Laptop now (finds it warmer inside house). :*

Danny.

[smujsmith]

Looks like you have tamed your Gremlin young sir! I wonder if you experimented in taking the laptop with you on your next road trip, and turning the heating up ? Who knows what the result might be.

Best regards

Smudge :ok:

[Pontius Navigator]

Danny, I used to have a Triumph 1300 and saw a superb Toledo in Leeds not that long ago. No road tax now?

[Cpt_Pugwash]

Surprised no ones mentioned XR809, the VC10 used for testing the RB 211.

[Danny42C]

PN,

I wish ! (Just been mulcted £230 in July).

Danny.

EDIT: The "V" is in front, I'm afraid (1999) (it would have to be pre-1976 to be exempt). D.

[NutLoose]

Surprised no ones mentioned XR809, the VC10 used for testing the RB 211.

Twisted by the uneven power, then filled with concrete by the pongoes I believe, they also rumour has it destroyed the RAF's electric engine winches, hence the reliance on the hand ones.

[tartare]

It would have looked interesting with another RB211 on the other side if they could have sorted out that thrust reverser problem and increased the power.
Having said that, the four Conways did make it look like something out of Thunderbirds - complete with that T-tail.
A great jet...

[Skeleton]

Can not remember the serial but on 226 OCU in the early 80's Jaguar T2 Tail letter "T" was disliked by the staff pilots, as it flew "funny." I remember well the bribery that used to occur by one or two who went beyond moaning about her, and simply tried to avoid her at all costs, but then again I always have been partial to Mars bars.

[EW73]

I too am surprised no one has mentioned the infamous Lockheed P3B Orion that was acquired by the RAAF, an ex flying testbed, as a replacement airframe for the brand new P3B that crashed at the Moffat Field US Navy base back in 1968, during its acceptance flights. It crash landed while attempting a touch-and-go and the port side MLG axle/brakes and wheels separated, and in doing so severely damaged the underside of the wing, it ground-looped and stopped still on the runway and was destroyed by fire, everybody escaped. (It was later found to be a OEM fault with the MLG oleo strut, hence the replacement airframe).
It was an older airframe in every way, and for it's entire career with the RAAF, it never flew straight, though the problem was investigated several times!
It was the infamous 154605.

[Dan Winterland]

Every Victor had it's own personality. They were all individual, to the point you couldn't swap many of the airframe components as they were mostly made to measure for that particular airframe.

[morrisman68]

I did wonder about that.

I often muse on the scene from one the 'Dollars' films - the Spaghetti Westerns - where the man with no name goes into a gunsmiths and fiddles with (Colt?) revolver components, fitting them and spinning them, until he finds a set where the manufacturing tolerances have lined up in favourable coincidence. IIRC he then holds up the shopkeeper with it in lieu of payment....

I suppose this might be seen as a reversed parody of some defence acquisitions?

As I used to say in lecturing days: Discuss.

[Pontius Navigator]

Morrisman, unlikely as the US had mass production at the Springfield Armouryhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springfield_Armory though I suppose it might have been pre-mass production.

Dan, BAE learnt the bespoke nature of Sir Frederick' s finest when they won the contract to convert the Victor 2 to the tanker role. They took the first wing off and used it as a template to create 24 ship sets. When the first of these was offered to the second aircraft it didn't fit.

The original build had had just four master bolts with the rest drilled using semi-skilled Labour.

[nacluv]

TTN: Instead of flying straight and level, Victor K1 XA 930 tended to fly in a very slow corkscrew which was detectable through the seat of your pants in the back seats. The aircraft had at one time been in the hands of either Boscombe Down or Farnborough, I forget which, and rumour had it that it had once been barrel rolled. Whatever the reason it was definitely "bent"!

Probably this one then...

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/v/t1.0-9/1010273_625153877503452_466699017_n.jpg?oh=5950b8d031d952125 cdcbf943f157d14&oe=568ADE35

[kenparry]

When on 1 Sqn in the mid/late 60s, we got an ex Boscombe Down FGA9, XF442. It was a real gas guzzler, we soon found, to the extent that it was almost always programmed as a formation leader's aircraft. We never found out why; engine changes made no difference, and all the rigging seemed OK. Apart from the guzzling, it flew well - and, oh yes, after April 68 it had a small replica of Tower Bridge stencilled just below the port cockpit rail. It followed me out to 8 Sqn and was still a gas guzzler, maybe 5% more than the others.

[26er]

GeeRam,


re your post No 21, I doubt if WF742 ever flew again after I delivered it as that trip was on 24th Nov 1955 and what with Christmas and New Year etc. probably the Aston Down mob took the easy option to the problem.

[MPN11]

I often muse on the scene from one the 'Dollars' films - the Spaghetti Westerns - where the man with no name goes into a gunsmiths and fiddles with (Colt?) revolver components, fitting them and spinning them, until he finds a set where the manufacturing tolerances have lined up in favourable coincidence. IIRC he then holds up the shopkeeper with it in lieu of payment....I spent many 'happy' hours, as a non-professional armourer, swapping and/or polishing small parts in HM's 9mm Browning pistols to enhance their 'shoot-ability' for the RAF Team. (I was taught by a proper Armourer).

Whether it's 0.1mm or 0.1cm or whatever, it can make a massive difference when all the other components are involved.

[Wokkafans]

I spent many 'happy' hours, as a non-professional armourer, swapping and/or polishing small parts in HM's 9mm Browning pistols to enhance their 'shoot-ability' for the RAF Team. (I was taught by a proper Armourer).

Whether it's 0.1mm or 0.1cm or whatever, it can make a massive difference when all the other components are involved.

Totally agree - I had a works "blueprinted" Kawasaki GPZ 750 and a standard "off-the-shelf" version at one time. While nominally identical the performance difference was more than noticeable. The bluepinted 750 could even give the bigger 900R a run for its money :ok:

[Oldsarbouy]

XZ585, the RAF Sea King destined for the RAF Museum, was the aircraft that crashed in Creag Meagaidh in 1988 during the filming of the Rescue series after suffering an engine failure at a critical stage in the approach. Thought to be a write-off 585 was subsequently rebuilt and carried on to fly many more hours at Lossie although some did say it flew like a banana.
:ok:

[smujsmith]

XV222 never failed to provide an extra night stop or three down route. I believe that the aircraft was once banned from anything other than local flying due to its reliability in failure. Tremblers was an aircraft that to this day has a place of reverence in many an aircrew wallet.

Smudge :ok:

[Danny42C]

Pontius Navigator,

Please see the EDIT to my Post #40 (I should have made it clear from the outset !) D.

------------------------

Smudge (your #37),

Trouble is: the Gremlin is INSIDE the accursed "Climate Control", and on a hot day will suddenly turn loose all the fires of Hell. Coversely on a freezing day will put on air-con to make things worse. We were much better off with three round knobs as in days of yore.

Had system fluid just replaced, not sure whether fixed or not yet. Meanwhile laptop stays in house, as at least I know where gremlin is for the moment (and I stay by the fireside most of the time, anyway !)...D.

Cheers, both, Danny.

[msbbarratt]

Slightly off topic, but never mind. There are stories (possibily of the salty sea dog variety) about RN vessels that didn't sail straight.

There was a T42 that got severely damaged in a collision with a fleet auxilliary. It got T-barred after the post RAS break off manoeuvre (which the captain intended to be a showy, racey departure) went wrong. Rather than scrap it (they'd never get a replacement paid for by Treasury) the RN had it repaired, but apparently it was never quite the same again.

There was also apparently a Leander class frigate that got bent during high speed bomb dodging manoeuvres in San Carlos Water in the Falklands. With it being a war they'd been allowed to disable the engine governors, and those steam plants had a lot of excess power. Moving a ship at high speed in shallow water puts a tremendous load on the hull due to the powerful venturi effect with the sea bed, and even stranger things happen in high speed turns. Better a bent ship than a bomb coming through the sides. I got this off a friend who'd been on it at the time.

[Jobza Guddun]

Dan, BAE learnt the bespoke nature of Sir Frederick' s finest when they won the contract to convert the Victor 2 to the tanker role. They took the first wing off and used it as a template to create 24 ship sets. When the first of these was offered to the second aircraft it didn't fit.


Must've been expensive. I guess UK industry learned from that mistake because it hasn't happened again since has it? :ugh:

[SWBKCB]

Wasn't there a story that when Ford were brought into aircraft manufacturing during WW2, they initially said "We can't work this way". Not that it was too complicated but that the tolerances were too great and every aircraft had to be individually "fettled", rather than just bolted together. :ok:

[Wycombe]

They took the first wing off and used it as a template to create 24 ship sets. When the first of these was offered to the second aircraft it didn't fit.

I heard a similar story in regard to the Nimrod MRA4, which was of course many years later.

Also, surprised no-one has yet mentioned that (in)famous TriStar ZE705. I heard of its reputation whilst witnessing it undergoing an engine change in ASI. Not bent, but a reputation for causing frequent delays on the SA Airbridge in those days.

[ian16th]

Wasn't there a story that when Ford were brought into aircraft manufacturing during WW2,

Wasn't this when Fords built and operated a factory to build RR Merlin engines?

RR used and needed skilled fitters to 'fit' each part, and Ford built them with un-skilled labour.

[GeeRam]

Quote:
Wasn't there a story that when Ford were brought into aircraft manufacturing during WW2,
Wasn't this when Fords built and operated a factory to build RR Merlin engines?

RR used and needed skilled fitters to 'fit' each part, and Ford built them with un-skilled labour.

Yup, I recall that as being the case as well, and IIRC, Ford's Trafford Park factory in Manchester ended up building the highest number of Merlins out of all the UK Merlin production factories.

[smujsmith]

The ASK18 I flew from Four Counties gliding club at Syerston, back a few years, certainly enjoyed thermalling to the left rather that the right. It also enjoyed a large boot of right rudder on approach to land. Now, having carried out servicings on the said glider, I could find no asymmetry in the airframe, nothing likely to cause any bias, but flying it always led to a boot full of right rudder. Go figure, as our American friends might say !!

Smudge :ok:

[tucumseh]

A sensible project manager always tries to hand pick his Trials Installation aircraft. Saves a fortune on time and cost. But the squadrons hate it.

On my last programme, after being stripped to nothing for over 2 years at Westland the TI got a visit from the sqn AEO. He walked up to her, patted the nose and said "That's my baby". He'd told me, fuel and oil and she'll fly forever. He was right. 5 months saved on programme. Refund from Westland, paid for a couple of nice-to-haves. Everybody happy.

The Proof Installation was a dog. Hardly serviceable during main trials. TI did the work of both.

[morrisman68]

I recall hearing a tale of a Royal Ordnance Factory being contracted to build some steam locomotives during, I think, WWI. On seeing the tolerances in the wheel bearings on the drawings they concluded that such sloppy workmanship would never do, and worked to their own much finer tolerances.

All went well - the first locomotive steamed beautifully and ran happily up and down the test track. The first curve proved too much, however - the machine stuck fast.

It was common practice to omit the flanges on one or more of the inner wheelsets of locomotives with large numbers (>=8?) coupled driving wheels in order to allow them to traverse curves and points, I gather.

[goudie]

I'm sure I read/heard somewhere that a wing replacement turned out to be slightly longer than the original. Could have been a Canberra.
After various checks to cure it's subsequent odd flying characteristics someone decided to actually measure the wing length and discovered the fault.
I know the PR9 wing was different but were there variations between the other marks?

[Pontius Navigator]

Wing changes would appear to be quite common. In the early 90s BA Helicopters st Aberdeen got the contract to refurbish Dominie wings. First aircraft in had its wings removed and refurbished. Second aircraft had its wings removed, first set fitted etc etc.

Just a few years ago we visited the RAF Museum reserve collection. We were shown at the BBMF Spitfire wings.

[morrisman68]

I read a tale of a Junkers being assembled at Farnborough during or after WWII. IIRC a Luftwaffe technician was amused to point out that wings from two different marks had been used.

[BEagle]

Probably one of the more famous 'different length wings' aircraft:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/DC2.5_zpssfyejwd3.jpg (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/nw969/media/DC2.5_zpssfyejwd3.jpg.html)

The DC-2½; a DC-3 with a starboard wing from a DC-2, about 5 ft shorter!

Full story at: CNAC's Famous DC-2 1/2 (http://www.cnac.org/aircraft02.htm)

[Dan Winterland]

The ASK18 I flew from Four Counties gliding club at Syerston, back a few years, certainly enjoyed thermalling to the left rather that the right. It also enjoyed a large boot of right rudder on approach to land. Now, having carried out servicings on the said glider, I could find no asymmetry in the airframe, nothing likely to cause any bias, but flying it always led to a boot full of right rudder. Go figure, as our American friends might say !!


It certainly did! I put it down to the fact that DF cartwheeled it down the airfield from a winch launch. An ambulance was called but ended up taking his mother to the hospital as Dave was fine, but she had a few medical issues as a result of the crash.

Ka8 R85 was the same, right hand thermals only. When we winched it up on a chain hoist as part of the FGC display for families day, it was clear there was a bout a 2 inch bend in the fuselage.


We must know each other!

[Audax]

Many years ago, there was a rogue C130 based out in the Far East, every so often in the cruise it would pitch up for no reason. No fault could be found after extensive work then some bright spark noticed that every time it happened, the same loadie was on board. It turned out he was disaffected and thought it a good wheeze to swing on the control runs every now and then.

Re the Varsity incident detailed earlier. According to mates who were there at the time, it was standard practice to try to barrel roll the aircraft when on a student mutual GH ride. On this occasion, the handling pilot (CR I believe) became unhappy half way round and pulled through rather than continue the roll.

[Danny42C]

Smudge (your #62),

Clearly Gremlin infestation - as in so many of the cases cited here !

Danny.

[Algy]

Cranwell early 80s, JP5A "Fleet 12" well-known for only being able to stall-turn to the left. (Presumably bent, although possibly through sheer force of student-habit!)

[Shackman]

Re barrel rolling the Varsity - I had it demonstrated to me by a QFI (who should have known better(!) but had also claimed to have done the same in a Lancaster for a much more practical reason) with strict instructions NEVER to do it or even mention it whilst he was still in the RAF. Two weeks later another stude did it and also chickened out and we were all taken to see the result -the airframe was 'fine' but the port engine mountings had failed and the engine was hanging down at about 10-15 degrees!

[langleybaston]

ISTR a Nav School Dominie was barrelled from Finningley, possibly on an exercise to Gib. c. 1974.
Word was the culprit was a tad senior for such malarkey.

The bugger did it on one of my route forecasts too! I required the utmost probity from aircrew that I trusted with a MetForm 2305 [number might be wrong]. Pretty clouds and the occasional eagle sneaked in somewhere.

[wrecker]

Flew into Haverford West many years ago in a PA18. After refueling I was accosted by a spotter who told me the a/c had one wing longer than the other.
When we looked closely he was right the port wing had one extra rib out board of the wing strut than the stb. and thus was about 6-9 inches longer. It flew OK though

[longer ron]

Goudie

I know the PR9 wing was different but were there variations between the other marks?

Quite possible - depending on where each wing had been built :)
We sometimes struggled to get the Aileron Pressure Balance Beaks gapped evenly if we had (say) an EE wing but Shorts built aileron (or vice versa) :)

[50+Ray]

XM599 was the most twisted bomber I ever flew. Not surprised when it was scrapped fairly early in the programme.
R

[binbrook]

Some Vampire 5 wing leading edges were formed from a single sheet (DH?) but others showed a butt joint (EE?), and by the mid-50s some airframes had gained one of each. No problem - but the butt-joint wing did always seem to drop first on a HSR.

There also was at least one oddity doing the rounds, which had a Mk9 wing on one side with its Godfrey cold-air unit intake blanked off, but again it didn't seem to make much difference.

[Pontius Navigator]

50, 599 was also the Vulcan dropping 21x1000 for a PR shot that had been required by SAC for display at Offutt

[Tengah Type]

PN


Vulcan dropping 21 x 1000 bomb load -

So, 60% of the load of a real V Bomber!!:O