Naval manpower shortage -4000

[4Greens]

The papers are reporting that the RN has a manpower shortage of 4000 and will not be able to man all its ships and the new aircraft carriers.
I despair sometimes.

[Lordflasheart]

PFI Shipmate. ......... LFH

[BEagle]

Time for the Press gang to tour the taverns of Plymouth and Portsmouth again? Ah-harr, me hearties, 'tis a fine life in the Queen's navy!

Seriously, what does the MoD expect with all the contractorisation and general levels of embuggerance the UK Armed Forces face these days....

[Heathrow Harry]

The Times says they'd wanted to add 2500 new recruits - which apparently still isn't enough to crew all the new ships and the carriers

Fallon told the Party Conference last week that he planned to cut 300 officers and hire 600 OR's - sources say this is what is planned in the forthcoming SDR and that's it folks :uhoh::uhoh:

[NutLoose]

That's a lot of semen..... :E

[Jimlad1]

rN history since ww2 has been one of manpower woes and trying to find people against shortages. Despite this, any suggestion of moving to a different manning system, or heaven forbod trying to get people to do more time at sea in the manner of the merchant navy is seen as heresy.

Part of the problem lies in a grossly ineffecient maninng and career structure whoch seems best equipped to meet the challenges of the 19th century.

[Courtney Mil]

The Defence in Numbers thing shows further cuts. I think the Navy is going to be decimated. And just the threat of that will be a negative factor for recruitment and retention. The first of the Forces to hit the bread line and implode?

[Bastardeux]

Hmm, it all seems a little inconsistent to me...

The MoD has a bit more money to spend now, not a vast, unspendable sum, but more nonetheless. Did I hear that hiring 2,500 more personnel will cost in or around £150 million a year? The recent upgrades to UK GDP alone would pay for that numerous times over, given that the defence budget is now linked to it. It all just stinks of total ignorance of the facts to me. I don't see how the RAF would get away with doubling the size of the Typhoon force, as is being suggested; will get a shiny new fleet of MPA; keep Sentinal; and double the size of the reaper fleet with shiny newer reapers, yet the navy would be shafted with an additional carrier that it is unable to operate.

It comes across like someone as jumped on a possible scenario that has been put forward out of a list of best to worst and presented it as something it's not. Take out the Royal Marines and you're left with 22000; I wasn't aware there was a near 25% manning shortfall. I could be wrong, but just my 2 cents.

[Courtney Mil]

I don't see how the RAF would get away with

It's not a case of anyone "getting away with" anything, Mate. This isn't a Sharky blog conspiracy. But it is a case of the Navy beginning to appear like it's starting to be quietly sidelined. The new carriers are seen, 'politically' as 'Air', which is a dangerous place to go. Global projection hasn't been mentioned in political press for ages now. I think the RN may have a big problem coming.

BTW, I'm not completely convinced that a new MPA is on the cards either just now.

[MSOCS]

My view is that the RN will have support for the carriers, and in that regard they have little to worry about. The carriers are also tied to their air contingent and so that also will see support come SDSR - again, in my view. As for being seen politically as Air I couldn't agree more. The whole point of the Aircraft Carriers is to carry aircraft (go figure!) to a vantage point and deliver the respective elements of air power, operated by a Joint bunch of RN, Army and RAF personnel.

As for Typhoon? Well, the upgrades are coming/will come but I'm not so sure it will double. I do hope SDSR will clarify the future plans for Typhoon though.

CM - any interesting gossip on MPA old boy?

[Bastardeux]

I don't see how the RAF would get away with
It's not a case of anyone "getting away with" anything, Mate. This isn't a Sharky blog conspiracy. But it is a case of the Navy beginning to appear like it's starting to be quietly sidelined. The new carriers are seen, 'politically' as 'Air', which is a dangerous place to go. Global projection hasn't been mentioned in political press for ages now. I think the RN may have a big problem coming.

BTW, I'm not completely convinced that a new MPA is on the cards either just now.

I meant "get away with" in the sense of presenting a wish list to the treasury and coming away with pretty much everything.

I think the one certainty is that an MPA announcement is imminent.

I just don't see a realistic situation where we have the Air Force expanding considerably and the navy being told it can't recruit nearly enough personnel to man the ships it already has. It's a defence review after all, not an air power review, and the Navy brings a plethora of things to the table that us air minded folks haven't even considered.

[Biggus]

Of course, rather than getting their knickers in a twist over things that may not actually be correct, people could wait until the SDSR is formally announced/released, it's not that much longer to wait (late November?).

But hey, where's the fun in that!! :ok::ok:

[Just This Once...]

I just don't see a realistic situation where we have the Air Force expanding considerably and the navy being told it can't recruit nearly enough personnel...

What on earth has led you to believe the RAF is expanding at all?

:confused:

[Bastardeux]

What on earth has led you to believe the RAF is expanding at all?


Well how else do you expect them to operate an extra 5 fast jet squadrons?

[MSOCS]

Significant parts of some of those "5 extra squadrons" will likely be manned by RN pilots, AETs and such like.

I agree with Biggs - let's let the review report first before hearsay gets the better of us all!!

[skippedonce]

Of course, rather than getting their knickers in a twist over things that may not actually be correct, people could wait until the SDSR is formally announced/released, it's not that much longer to wait (late November?).Sorry, I thought this was a rumour website.:eek:

[Biggus]

skippedonce,


.....and the rest of the quote was? :=:=

[Melchett01]

I don't see how the RAF would get away with doubling the size of the Typhoon force, as is being suggested

I know this is a rumour network, but where has that come from? I thought we were getting rid of the Tranche 1 aircraft and ŵe were going to hit an all time low of jet numbers by 2020 or whenever it was. I would have thought that it was RPAS rather than Typhoon numbers that were set to double based on the PM's recent comments?

[TBM-Legend]

Put a recruiting station in Calais. 4000 would-be matelots in ten minutes!!!

[Bastardeux]

I know this is a rumour network, but where has that come from? I thought we were getting rid of the Tranche 1 aircraft and ŵe were going to hit an all time low of jet numbers by 2020 or whenever it was. I would have thought that it was RPAS rather than Typhoon numbers that were set to double based on the PM's recent comments?

Getting rid of Tranche 1 is so 2010, Melchett. Latest gen is to keep tranche 1 plus some additional new build aircraft. The FF2020 was based on significantly less money than what is now expected by 2020. IMHO, the big news will actually be what the aspirations are for after 2020, and whether the 2% is extended to 2025 or enshrined in law a la foreign aid; that's when it turns from a modest difference to a significant departure of what the trend budget settlement was likely to be only a year or so ago.

[Hawk98]

There was an article in the Sunday Times about the number of FJ sqns getting doubled to 12, coming from 'senior defence sources' as being a cornerstone of the SDSR, we can live in hope!

[andyy]

If the number of FJ squadrons gets doubled to 12, you will probably find that the number of aircraft per squadron gets halved.

Still, more Command slots available.

[pr00ne]

Going from 8 to 12 is NOT doubling!

Don't any of you actually do maths?

[Bastardeux]

Nope, but going from 6 (as per SDSR2010's FF2020) to 12 is; or alternatively, going from 5 to 10 Typhoon squadrons is also a doubling...smarty pants.

Andyy, I know that the cynicism of pprune dictates there is no such thing as good news, but simply splitting the squadrons into smaller squadrons doesn't actually achieve anything other than increased overall costs does it? The increase is to address a lack of FJ numbers, not public perception.

[Cows getting bigger]

"Join the RAF, Sail the Seas" - RAF 2020 strap-line.

[WhiteOvies]

Some of those fast jet Squadrons may of course have RN number plates, although as they will work for HQ 1 Grp they may be considered RAF by some. The Fleet Air Arm manning situation is seen as healthy compared to some of the other branches, although it's all relative!

Agrreeing with CGB above, with Chinook now regularly going to sea, F-35B going to sea and even talk of trying to embark Puma 2(!) I can see the RAF spending a lot more time at sea in the near future! No wonder they're desparate to get some F-35A in the future....

[AutoBit]

The problem with FAA manning, particularly fixed wing, is all it takes is 2 or so guys to leave and we go from 'quite healthy' to 'critically undermanned' in the click of a finger.

[Lyneham Lad]

There was an article in the Sunday Times about the number of FJ sqns getting doubled to 12, coming from 'senior defence sources' as being a cornerstone of the SDSR, we can live in hope!

Wasn't that related to bringing some Tranche 1 out of storage for UK AD purposes?