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flyfly4
3rd Oct 2015, 16:24
In a few months I will be finishing my PPL(A) in Spain and I want to move to the UK for the ground school full time, not distance.

So for what I've been reading the most important ones are BGS, CATS and Pro Pilot but now I have no idea what happened as CTC has bought it.

Which one do you recommend for a full time study? What I am looking for is to get a high % and a good quality of learning.


And regarding that I take the ATPL in the UK and the PPL in Spain, is there any problem with this? Thanks

WASALOADIE
3rd Oct 2015, 18:07
Have you considered CAE Oxford? They do Modular training. Call their sales team

May88
3rd Oct 2015, 18:07
First section is my rant, second section answers your questions.


Save the money for flying, and go distance learning? Distance learning itself is expensive enough as it is, considering EASA thinks we're silly and NEED to attend x hours of ground school and get signed off by an FTO. There is really really no need to throw money at an FTO for full time courses.. Unless it's part of an integrated programme?

Also, I would avoid the UK at the moment. Not because it is a bad place (quite the opposite, did some of my training there myself) but the € to £ rate is just stupid at the moment. Especially if you just intend to sit there for 6+ months?

Unless you're made of money of course, be my guest! Just think about the 25-30K you will have to spend on a TR afterwards; Those 7 or 8k you spent on (arguably) useless classes will definitely come in handy! :D

As an example: my buddies and I all went distance learning and scored well (93%, 94% and one even 98%). You don't need ground school to understand the material, it is high school level at the most.. Just study on your own, and practice the databases when you're done with the books (I used aviationexam). Just set a proper study schedule and you'll be ready to sit all 14 exams in 6 months .. With time to spare to work in the meanwhile ..

Airlines know the ATPLs are just garbage .. You will not impress anyone by scoring 90+. They know you can get stupidly high marks by only preparing the question banks. They will test your in depth knowledge during the interview or through a separate paper test.


If you insist on attending ground school, have a look at Stapleford Flight Centre. They're relatively small and only do modular courses, but they have some of the best pass rates and have a few very knowledgeable instructors doing the advanced flying courses and their ground school. They also have accommodation on site, 25 meters away from the classrooms.

There is absolutely no issue with sitting the ATPL exams in a different member state. All member states have to accept each other's exam certificates. But, you will have to sit ALL ATPL exams in the same member state (all 14 in the UK, not 10 in the UK and 4 in Spain for example). Spain has to accept the UK exam accreditation. Note that because you have a Spanish license that Spain will have to issue you your CPL/MEIR as well, unless you transfer your SOLI to another member state. I would recommend sorting out the paperwork beforehand. EASA regs are great and open up a lot of possibilities for pilots and students, but everybody is still learning how it all works and thus it will take a lot longer than you would expect to sort things out.

flyfly4
3rd Oct 2015, 22:04
Thank you for the replies WASALOADIE and May88.

I will also look the oxford academy. I know a friend who did the ground school there so I will ask.

And May88, I always have preferred to assist to class and recieve a first input rather than studying everything on my own, even though I know that I will have to study on my own afterwards, I will have already had a first input by very professional teachers.

At least this has worked well for me in the past, so my choice will be to attend full time; I've been saving up money for this.


I will aslo check stapleford, but I hope that someone could review CATS BGS or ProPilot! Thanks!!

May88
3rd Oct 2015, 22:31
Fair enough - As long as you make an informed decision. I get a bit frustrated sometimes with the overly optimistic view some people have getting into this industry; Sorry if I came across a bit harsh :)

I used propilot for my studies - Sorry I must have missed that question.

The propilot series focusses on the learning objectives and the syllabus, but tends to skip the more interesting side bits. They are perfectly adequate to study for the exams and get a good score (in conjunction with for example aviationexam). They are very easy to read in general and you'll make quick progress moving through the syllabus. They also have a decent amount of pictures and the font is rather large so their thick 700 page books read more like regular 350 page books. It's not as much as it seems.

What they do seem to lack in my opinion is a "flowing story" or a "red line" through the chapters. For example, rather than giving you a story structure to remember something, the book will skip that and just give you a list of memory items. It is not that bad in most books, but for air law for example becomes as boring as dishwater when you have entire chapters consist of:

Planes are separated both laterally and horizontally. Lateral separation is based on the following requirements:
A
B
C

Conversely you can also be separated horizontally, provided that:
X
Y
Z
Except in: K and L

I personally find stuff like that really boring to read.. :mad:

Similar things tend to happen near the end of the bigger books, like meteorology and aerodynamics. The later chapters become much more bulletpoint like than actual text and gloss over the interesting stuff.

Overall they are decent books, they'll get you through it. You can always get an Oxford air law book on the side if you want to read up on certain topics in more detail (or download them in pdf :ok:). I know that Stapleford uses propilot.

As a reference, I know a few former SFC lads and they're now flying for Ryanair, Stobart and one on a learjet 45 for a small charter company. So the books/training will certainly get you there.

flyfly4
4th Oct 2015, 09:27
thank you for your detailed answer may88 :ok:

Do you know what's the status of propilot now? Their website is outdated and there is no info of next courses, so I am not sure if it's an ATPL provider anymore because of CTC

paco
4th Oct 2015, 12:38
I believe CTC have now acquired a distance learning course....

flyfly4
4th Oct 2015, 14:37
AFAIK CTC has bought pro pilot center, so maybe one can not sign up pro pilot any more. I will email them to know how it is now.

flyfly4
5th Oct 2015, 14:07
Please anyone could share his experience in full time ground school? I have checked OAA that is a 6 month course. Isn't it too short for the 14 courses?

What I dont want is just to learn the question banks, I want to learn and if it takes me a few more months it will be worth it. So I feel that 6 month might be too short?

May88
5th Oct 2015, 14:28
6 months is plenty for ATPLs. Don't worry about the time frame. Keep in mind it's just high school level stuff .. Anyone age 15-16 will not struggle grasping the concepts; They're often overly simplified anyway. It is just a lot of stuff to go through, and most of it will be irrelevant for your career so it gets tedious quickly. Just set a decent study plan, and stick with it, like a subject every 2 weeks?. Don't bother cramming, it won't work (~7500 pages in total?). It's all about sitting down with the books and taking your time reading through them. I made notes as I went along, noting all the important points and memory items like formulas. I ended up with a 250 page PDF document containing everything, I mean everything, you need to know and understand for all the exams. A lot easier to study than 7500 page books! Anyway, just do what works for you.

I don't see you getting a high mark by studying the material properly; Yes, the ATPL questions are that stupid. Study the books, understand the stuff, and then spend 2 or 3 weeks with the databases to ensure you'll pass. You can study your books from cover to cover and still have plenty of "wtf" moments when sitting the ATPLs.

Ask anyone if they'd pass the ATPLs again if they sat them RIGHT NOW. You would fail some subjects even if you sat them 2 weeks ago. Airline captains that could teach you the entire ATPL syllabus would not pass the ATPLs. The questions are stupid, and you don't get a lot of them (ie, you don't need to make a lot of mistakes on a 44 question exam to get in the low 80s or even fail).

EC DKN
5th Oct 2015, 15:16
Hi,

I am in the same boat as you are! I Have a EASA Spanish PPL but I want to carry all my modular training in the UK. As far as I know, I've visited Professional Air Training (and they know pretty pretty well all this stuff), is that you can carry on all your training in the UK and being issued an Spanish EASA CPL ME/IR! The UK CAA examiner will completed a form advising the Spanish CAA that you will take your skill test and all will be fine. Therefore, you have to options now! You can transfer all your Medicals to the UK and being issued a UK CAA CPL or keep your Spanish Licence. I am still thinking what to do but in the Spanish licence you will have the SPANISH LEVEL 6 and your English level (I have 4), so I think it's something that a lot of British pilots don't have, and therefore is worth to have in your licence. However the UK licence (at least for me) has some more kind of "attractiveness". There are some UK airlines that wanted to you to have a UK licence (Easyjet or BA, but they will not hire you, at least as a freshly graduate), and some UK airlines (Flybe) provided that u have a good ATPL marks and done some training in one of their modular partners ATO (like PAT) don't care!

By the way, BGS the best! (Just distance learning)! Or BCFT (full time, they use BGS books)!

So decision time! Hope this help!

flyfly4
5th Oct 2015, 17:15
Yeah May88 I know you need to practice with the questions db, but I have been talking with a friend that did his ground at oxford full time and he told me it was very intense. I am not sure if it will be a too fast learning curve, but I realised that all of them do it in 6 months aprox:

-BCFT does it in 6 months in 3 stages
-CAEOAA 6 months 2 stages
-CTC? I emailed CTC but haven't got any answer yet regarding its course
-CATS: 5 months!! in 3 stages ( i think this is way too quick)

-Bristol only does distance. So it has to be either BCFT or Oxford....

Anyone knows about accomodation at those?

And regarding CAEOAA, do teachers take care of you even that you are only a modular that does just the ground school there? Or they prioritise the integrated?


BCFT is 4309 pounds and CAEOAA is 5500 pounds.



EC-DKN, I don't want to move my license to the UK because I just want to do the ATPL ground there, but afterwards I will go back to spain, so for me that step is not needed. PM if you want to contact for more info.

EC DKN
5th Oct 2015, 20:59
BCFT costs 5500 £! I visited them few months ago! ;)

flyfly4
5th Oct 2015, 21:05
Ahh i see.. so we have the same prices around. It's a difficult choice :bored:

Herb S
4th Nov 2015, 18:59
Have a look at this website Pathway Flight Training - ATPL Training (http://www.path2pilot.com) it's worth a comparison.

kimsmith
3rd Dec 2015, 08:31
@ herb S
My brother has completed his helicopter pilot training from this college.

DTK1
30th Dec 2015, 22:02
Just so you know, CATs aviation offer a free PPL login so you can see what the training system is like.

Supermattt
11th Jan 2016, 12:25
Hi all,

Has anyone here trained with or have any views on Caledonian Advanced Pilot Training (CAPT) for ATPL(A) distance learning?

paco
11th Jan 2016, 14:06
Our last aeroplane student took all 14 exams in one sitting and passed them all, on average about 90% if memory serves.

ersa
11th Jan 2016, 20:24
Supermatt , highly recommend CAPT.

liam548
12th Jan 2016, 11:15
Completed mine with CATS Luton all distant learning. No issues at all.

Gordon Bennet
15th Jan 2016, 18:50
Aren't they closing down soon? Somebody I recruited mentioned it.

liam548
16th Jan 2016, 13:48
CATS?


No, there are some changes coming but not closing down.

Gordon Bennet
16th Jan 2016, 14:34
That must be it, then - he muttered somethimg about "last intake".

T2B
21st Jan 2016, 00:24
Go and do it at CAE Oxford. They are starting one soon in 5 days.
All best

ahmad777
29th Jan 2016, 05:27
I have the Oxford books and my academy ground training was based on them , however , I don't recommend them for ATPL exams (too many irrelevant and useless information ) I've found many online schools (not sure if allowed to mention names ) , they are really good and the online ATPL test bank is great !
good luck .

CATS Support
30th Jan 2016, 11:56
These are just a few developments this year:
Expanded exam centre at Luton
Addition of Dubai satellite
Amendments to In House course structure from September 2016
Ongoing satellites at Cranfield, Gatwick, Dundee, New Smyrna Beach Florida, Lisbon, Portugal, Malaga Spain
The headquarters is Luton where training, development and admin is centred

GREGDH
2nd Feb 2016, 18:10
I would be very careful of CATS they have lots of great ideas but when training with them i personally feel very short changed. I would recommend distancing yourself from their course at the moment until they have sorted out the cracks in their organisation.

wingwarrior
19th Dec 2016, 19:01
Hi Greg

I'm currently considering CATS Luton, could you give me a more detailed indication regarding the organisational "cracks" you warned of? Cheers

shibani89
22nd Mar 2017, 19:49
Hi Wingwarrior

Did try enrolling in CATS for the Distance learning course..
Any update on their course structure.
I am interested in enrolling for Distance learning, any schools recommended??

Thank you.