Hospital moves RAF man over ‘offensive’ uniform

[Warmtoast]

The Sun is reporting an RAF Sergeant was moved because of his "offensive" uniform, claiming his camouflage fatigues may offend other patients.


Story here:
The Sun (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/6660453/Hospital-moves-RAF-man-over-his-uniform.html)

[Whenurhappy]

Somehow I dont believe this because (a) it's in the Sun and (b) we are rapidly approaching the 'Lidle/aldi won't let staff wear Poppies because it offends Muslims' stories time of year...



...and it's in the Daily Mail, simply reporting the story in the Sun...

[Chugalug2]

It is also now being reported by BBC News on Radio 4...

[sitigeltfel]

Somehow I dont believe this because (a) it's in the Sun and (b) we are rapidly approaching the 'Lidle/aldi won't let staff wear Poppies because it offends Muslims' stories time of year...



...and it's in the Daily Mail, simply reporting the story in the Sun...

The story is also in the Daily Mirror, so you can take your tinfoil hat off.

A hospital source is quoted as saying it was suggested that Sgt Prendeville move from A&E to another department because of a previous altercation involving another serviceman. What this other incident entailed was not explained.

[Linedog]

SGT wearing SAC rank? :=

[Whenurhappy]

A hospital source is quoted as saying it was suggested that Sgt Prendeville move from A&E to another department because of a previous altercation involving another serviceman. What this other incident entailed was not explained.

Oh dear, so there is more behind this, perhaps...and not about the uniform offending other patients.

[HAS59]

I heard this on the radio and immediately contacted the Dept of Health to complain.
Just imagine the outcry if someone had been moved (hidden) because their clothing had identified their religion!
This is a step too far - the staff at the Queen Mother Hospital in Margate got this ALL wrong and need to have this explained to them.

and ... speedy recovery to Sgt Prenderville.

[Chugalug2]

Now on BBC News website:-

Hospital apologises after moving RAF man because of uniform - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34368332)

Do Harrods still ban military uniform instore?

[Royalistflyer]

Well Harrods is still owned by a bunch of moslems - so I wouldn't be surprised.

[Wander00]

Seems hospital staff made an error in good faith, and have apologised. Sounds like end of..............Not sure I follow the "Harrods" comment though

[sitigeltfel]

Seems hospital staff made an error in good faith, and have apologised. Sounds like end of.....

"in good faith" or maybe the wrong faith?

Nope, it seems Sgt Prendeville was singled out for discriminatory treatment and separated from others based on his military service and uniform.

Hopefully not the end of....

[Chugalug2]

W00:-
Not sure I follow the "Harrods" comment though A few years ago member(s) of the Armed Forces were asked to leave Harrods, having entered the store after attending that year's Remembrance Parade at the Cenotaph. Harrods explained at the time that it was company policy to deny entrance to anyone wearing Military Uniform as it could cause concern among some customers. I was asking is that still the case?

[Maybug]

Would they apply the same rule to someone wearing a burka?

[Heathrow Harry]

clearly not as one has $$$$$$$ and the other has zero

the reason given by the hospital was that they'd had a previous incident of soemone getting upset at someone in uniform in A&E - probably a drunk I suspect - and they were trying to avoid any future incidents........

so probably good intentions but not thought through - or thought about at all TBH

[Shack37]

SGT wearing SAC rank? :=


A: Could be an old photo.
B: Does it matter?

It´s a disgrace whether he is an SAC or M of the RAF.

[Wander00]

Chug - in that case Harrods must forego my custom, along with ISTR Starbucks.


However, there seems to be an assumption, for which I can find no evidence, that the member of staff who was seeking to "protect" the sergeant was not a WASP. As I read the report, the hospital staff member was not hiding the serviceman from the general public, but trying to avoid the possibility of some drunken bum making a scene because the guy was in uniform. Wrong call, ban the drunk; but the righteous indignation brigade seems to be blowing on embers that are not there, IMHO, of course.

[Basil]

previous incident of soemone getting upset at someone in uniform in A&E
In that case the 'upset' person leaves. There, fixed and not too difficult.

For any remaining doubters, it's in The Graun. (http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/sep/26/hospital-moved-raf-sergeant-over-fears-his-uniform-would-upset-patients)
“they didn’t want to upset people” and “have lots of different cultures coming in”
Perhaps they should have 'lots of different cultures' going out?

[Heathrow Harry]

The number of WASP's in the NHS is a damn small number these days - it's highly dependent on ethnic minorities and immigrants at all levels

The pay is poor and hours are grim - no Brits are interested - thank God these other people are...............

[Martin the Martian]

Wander00:

https://news.starbucks.com/views/myths-facts-military-donations

[Chugalug2]

Wander00, lest you be driven to precipitous action, I searched (and searched..) for the thread that I referred to. It turns out that "a few years ago" meant nearly nine of them! The only explanation that I can give is that time is speeding by at an alarming rate these days. I still don't know if Harrods has changed its policy of excluding visitors wearing uniforms, though ownership of the company has of course changed since then. The then policy was spelled out by them in post 34:-

http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/253084-dont-shop-harrods.html

Personally I adopted then the policy that you have now declared, and have seen no reason to modify it since. Always open to being convinced otherwise of course...

[Tankertrashnav]

Excuse me, but as a WASRC (work it out) could I ask that we drop this business of using WASP to indicate somebody who is white and Anglo Saxon (whatever that last bit means)? I may not go to mass much these days, but I haven't joined Welby's bunch yet, so less of the WASP please! In any case, if they werent pagans, Anglo Saxons were by definition all WASRCs, because there werent any P's around then!

[Basil]

TTN, I do believe that WASP is intended to be pejorative inasmuch as those horrible whites hate everyone else, Prods are probably Right Wing and wasps just sting and contribute nothing.
Bas - WASA (or could be WCA) ;)

[Wander00]

Starbucks - I withdraw my comment unreservedly. And I hope they employ lots of former armed forces personnel


The hospital - well I could not say "black" or "muslim" could I .....real hiding to nothing

I just think as a one off the hospital f@cked up, and have apologised - if it happens again, someone gets strung up (One is unfortunate, twice looks like carelessness", as someone once wrote

[Wander00]

TTN and others - reminds me of the order from the CWO at the Towers on I think a Founder's Day parade - "Roman Catholics and other non-Christians, fall ooooouuuuut" as his voice tailed away, as he realised what he had actually said!

[Bigbux]

The Hospital has apologised and suggested that the action was taken in the interests of the Sgt's safety.

This may sound like a laudable action, but it is also an indication of a deep rooted political correctness which fails to challenge unacceptable attitudes towards Service Personnel by those who enjoy the safety and opportunity of life in this Country due to the efforts of Service Personnel over the years.

I have E-mailed the Chief Exec - perhaps other may wish to do the same:

[email protected]

I wonder if any leadership on this issue will be shown by the Service Chiefs?

[thing]

I have E-mailed the Chief Exec - perhaps other may wish to do the same:

Chief exec has just had a 'get a grip' missive from me.

[smujsmith]

As an ex SNCO of a few years service, I personally would have told the hospital staff where to place their "suggestion", though I have to accept that the Sgt was injured, and probably open to suggestion to those he placed his trust in. What is fairly obvious is the contradiction of Government policy, which closed our military hospitals, herds our servicemen in to the NHS, to be treated as lepers as they turn up in A & E. I hope this chap is recovering well, I wish the @rsehole who created the stupid situation well in his new career! Ahh, of course NHS have a no blame culture, they can kill you and not be blamed.

Smudge:mad:

[Danny42C]

Wander00,

"Fall out, the Roman Catholics and Jews" was alive and well in '53 in the RAF (presumably the Other Denominations had to listen to the "God-Botherer" whether they liked it or not).

At Thornaby my C.O. (Wing Commander David Brown DSO, and I (the RC one), his Adjutant, stood at ease at the rear of the parade, backs turned to it while the padre said his spiel.

Then: "Fall in, the Roman Catholics and Jews"; we came smartly to attention, about-turned and marched back to our places at the head of the parade.

Danny.

[Whenurhappy]

This one, misplaced and il-thought out incident should not be used to represent the NHS at large. One of the main reasons the Service hospitals were closed down almost 20 years ago was because of the difficulty in remaining current and modern (and the eye watering price tag associated with this).

Over the last 5 1/2 years, as a SP, I have had to make a lot of use of the NHS, (being flown back to the UK specifically) and also attending a number of outpatient appointments in uniform. I have always had a positive response to being in uniform, albeit a few curious stares. At my last (fortunately, my last) appointment with the consultant (who, purely coincidentally, was a Col L/RAMC) I ended up having a very long conversation with a young guy in the waiting area who asked very intelligent questions about UK foreign and defence policy. He was a bit confrontational but at the end he slapped me on the back and thanked me for doing what I do. This was also the first time a member of the public has ever said that to me. He said he'd never spoken to anyone in the military before (and I'm not sure being RAF counts!).

So forgive me my initial scepticism about this story...not all NHS Trusts are the same and I am sure in this case the staff member was trying to be helpful, given the varying accounts of the incident that are now floating around.

[A and C]

It is quite simple, if you are offended by the uniform of any of HM armed forces you are living in the wrong country.

It is quite simple to move to a place that you won't see the you uniform that is so offensive to you but you will have to do without the NHS, Social security, the rule of law, freedom of speech, local authority services............

[glad rag]

I would ask those who so stoutly defame the front line NHS workers to re-read post #32 and ask themselves just what were the staff supposed to do with the serviceman who, in all probably, couldn't see??
Incidentally having received eye injuries before, trust me, you are pretty much incapacitated through pain, reaction and obviously, loss of vision.

[drustsonoferp]

The Sgt could see when he was in the hospital: he'd already had an eye flush on the one affected eye but there was concern enough to be checked properly for damage. He was back within hours, OK but inflamed.

There were members of the public present in the hospital criticising the hospital staff for their treatment of him, though they don't appear to have made the news.

[Stanwell]

Barnstormer,
That post WAS a bit tongue-in-cheek. Perhaps I should have added a smiley.
I don't know how ISIS and the Taliban get on in such circumstances.

I has been my observation, though, that some fundamentalist muslims will, at the drop of a hat,
(in much the same way that a dog with a flea to scratch does), abandon any situational awareness
and responsibility in order to fulfil a 'duty'.

A couple of years ago, I was directing the unloading of furniture from a truck through the main entrance of
an office building (ironically, News Limited).
Everything is going well, when along comes one of our be-robed middle-eastern brethren.
Now, he's determined that the time and place to unroll his prayer-mat and undertake his devotions is
on the footpath right between the truck and the doorway.

No amount of entreaty and cajoling could get him to do it elsewhere, even just a few metres away.
So, everything came to a standstill with the crew just standing around until he'd eventually made his peace with
Allah, packed up his kit and shuffled off.

Welcome to our 'multicultural' society. :*

[Brian W May]

Six French jets had the right idea . . .

[Rosevidney1]

Isn't multi-culturalism just wonderful? No, I don't think so either.

[SWBKCB]

Was anybody here actually present? If not, you don't know what was said/done, and certainly don't know why.

[ExRAFRadar]

To be fair I am not sure this is too different from the old 'Don't travel in Uniform' thing we had to adhere to during Operation Banner

[Wander00]

And I do not recall the uniform, or its wearer, being described as "offensive"

[Brian W May]

Was anybody here actually present? If not, you don't know what was said/done, and certainly don't know why.

Neither were the vast majority of the media including BBC et al. They all reported it.

We not supposed to comment then? In a pig's eye . . . (note choice of animal)

[Basil]

No amount of entreaty and cajoling could get him to do it elsewhere, even just a few metres away.
He was taking the piss and should have been picked up and removed.

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

I am outraged, What is the world coming to...


Prenders got promoted to Sgt?

[smujsmith]

Brian May,

Good point well made. If we aren't allowed to have an opinion, why does PPRUNE exist ?

Smudge:ok:

[Out Of Trim]

I'm offended that someone in this Country could be offended by a military uniform! So deal with that! :mad:

[Stanwell]

One lunchtime back in 1970, a mate and I (in uniform) were walking down George Street, Sydney.
We were accosted, abused and spat upon by a group of dole-bludging lentil-weavers.

Lovely, we thought. What do we do here?
Answer: We picked a couple of them up, bodily threw them out of our way and continued on.


Plus ca change...

[sitigeltfel]

I was once given an armed escort to hospital while injured and in uniform. There were hostile natives operating in the area, hence the bodyguard. The crushed finger tip I suffered after getting it caught in swing doors at Bishopscourt bloody well hurt and fully justified my GSM NI! ;)

[barnstormer1968]

Stanwell.
It seems my post was removed, but thanks for the explaination :)
My thoughts on the story were that the previous incident wasn't expanded on so the press didn't know who the offended or possible offensive patients may be.

my own experience is similar to your above post in that the harshest abuse to service persons came from middle class 'right on' students who thought it was big and clever to call soldiers baby killers. It would make no difference to this group that Syria has been propped up with Russian kit, or that the UK hasn't recently invaded the the country. They would see it as their human rights to abuse men and women in uniform.

Something that REALLY gets me riled is when loud/foul mouthed protesters say that men died in the Second World War so that today's kids can have free speech and support any party or group they want. I can't help but point out that NO they didn't, they gave their lives to make the world a better place. Being part of any group or saying whatever you want would include the Nazi party or verbally abusing servicemen or women, and that's not what these brave people made the ultimate sacrifice for.

Apologies for my initial bite.

[Jamieone]

Joe Public simply doesn't come across that many military personnel in uniform these days for various reasons not least the dwindling size of the armed forces.

It would be nice to think that, contrary to what the media portray, the public's reaction to seeing personnel in uniform is for the most part pride not a sense of oppression or alarm.

[goudie]

Kipling was spot on

'O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away " ; But it's ''Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play.

[Heathrow Harry]

"It would be nice to think that, contrary to what the media portray, the public's reaction to seeing personnel in uniform is for the most part pride not a sense of oppression or alarm."

for most people it is but I think the same people would be a bit watchfull if the were in a pub or club late at night.............

[The Helpful Stacker]

I've stayed away from this thread up until now because, being a nurse employed by the NHS, I may be seen as 'the enemy' by some!

What some may not know is that I'm also an Auggie nurse, and my day job sees me working for a Midlands area trust, in an area that has a very diverse population. Its the kind of diverse population that would have the average middle-class Guardianistas tripping over themselves to avoid offending, but that doesn't stop the trust showing full support for the Armed Forces. Indeed us reservists are positively encouraged to 'show our colours', with us being encouraged (and allowed by our respective services) to wear our uniforms to work on occasions such as Armed Forces Day. Oddly the only 'trouble' I've ever had when wearing my RAF uniform at work was from some Caucasian drunk outside ED.

As for what went on at the hospital in the story, who knows for sure? Sadly, given that A&E often seems to mean "Anything & Everything", we see a wide variety of 'interesting' characters. For instance, as a recognised place of safety under the Mental Health Act, we see a wide variety of patients with underlying MH problems. I can think of at least two patients I've looked after in the last week to whom the sight of a military uniform could cause issues, so whilst it may initially seem bad, sometimes moving a patient away from potential risks is the right thing to do.

Yes, in an ideal world we'd have security/MH nurses at our beck and call to ensure the safety of all of our patients but we don't live in an ideal world and, given the continued attitude towards the NHS by both the general public and government, we have to do what we can with what we have.

[Brian W May]

I've stayed away from this thread up until now because, being a nurse employed by the NHS, I may be seen as 'the enemy' by some!

What some may not know is that I'm also an Auggie nurse, and my day job sees me working for a Midlands area trust, in an area that has a very diverse population. Its the kind of diverse population that would have the average middle-class Guardianistas tripping over themselves to avoid offending, but that doesn't stop the trust showing full support for the Armed Forces. Indeed us reservists are positively encouraged to 'show our colours', with us being encouraged (and allowed by our respective services) to wear our uniforms to work on occasions such as Armed Forces Day. Oddly the only 'trouble' I've ever had when wearing my RAF uniform at work was from some Caucasian drunk outside ED.

As for what went on at the hospital in the story, who knows for sure? Sadly, given that A&E often seems to mean "Anything & Everything", we see a wide variety of 'interesting' characters. For instance, as a recognised place of safety under the Mental Health Act, we see a wide variety of patients with underlying MH problems. I can think of at least two patients I've looked after in the last week to whom the sight of a military uniform could cause issues, so whilst it may initially seem bad, sometimes moving a patient away from potential risks is the right thing to do.

Yes, in an ideal world we'd have security/MH nurses at our beck and call to ensure the safety of all of our patients but we don't live in an ideal world and, given the continued attitude towards the NHS by both the general public and government, we have to do what we can with what we have.

Well reasoned and thanks for taking the trouble to respond.

Sadly the general reaction to this particular incident is IMHO a measure of how frustrated many of us are with the effects of rampant political correctness and its mis-application.