Aircraft Lengths of Service

[just another jocky]

Reading the Tonka Tails thread (http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/567797-tonka-tails.html) got me to wondering how many years each of the different aircraft the RAF have flown had actually been in-service. Does anyone have a list/link or is prepared to do the research?

There would probably have to be some rules regarding what classifies as in-service but otherwise I think it would be interesting to see the differences and there may be a few surprises.

Just a thought - on the desk and it's quiet/repetetive. :zzz:

[Danny42C]

At a guess, the Spitfire (entered sevice 1938, retired by Irish Air Force 1961).

Of course, only if you count out the Tiger Moth........which will fly for ever.

D.

[XR219]

RAF Pumas have been in service for about 44 years and are expected to last another 10.

The VC10 C.1s were in service for around 44 years too.

[GeeRam]

Canberra's did 55 years service.


Technically, LF363 has done 71 years ;-)

[Arclite01]

Chipmunk did 43 if you don't include those from BBMF & RNHF (still in use) or the Harvard at Boscombe (1944 and counting)

Arc

[falcon12]

The Canberra - 58 years 1951 to end July 2009

[JointShiteFighter]

The Hercules first entered RAF service in 1967 and nearly 50 years later, it's still in RAF service and will be until the beginning of the next decade.

[Dan Winterland]

the second Chipmunk to be delivered to the RAF, WB550 entered service in 1949 and retired 45 years later in 1994 when it was still be used to train ab-initio RAF pilots. Some Sqns liked to make a fuss when their pilots were younger than the aircraft that they were flying. But one day in about 1993, WB550 had a crew whose combined age didn't exceed that of the venerable old girl!

[Wander00]

And the odd, and much modified, Canberra still working in the US (and elsewhere)

[Rhino power]

A reasonably short time on google provided the following list. RAF jet aircraft, starting with the Meteor for obvious reasons...
(disclaimer - all dates are taken from sources various and may not be 100% accurate, but it'll give a rough idea...)

Meteor - 1944-1977
Vampire - 1945-1972
Canberra - 1951-2006
Venom - 1952-1962
F-86 Sabre - 1953-1956
Hunter - 1954-1994
Jet Provost - 1955-1993
Valiant - 1955-1965
Comet - 1956-1975
Javelin - 1956-1968
Victor - 1957-1993
Vulcan - 1957-1984
Lightning - 1959-1988
Gnat - 1962-1979
BAe 125 - 1956-2015
Dominie - 1965-2011
VC10 - 1966-2013
Buccaneer - 1969-1994
Harrier - 1969-1994
Nimrod - 1969-2011
Phantom - 1968-1992
Jaguar - 1974-2007
Hawk - 1976-
Tornado - GR1/4 - 1981-
TriStar - 1984-2013
Tornado - F2/3 - 1985-2011
BAe 146 - 1986-
Harrier II - 1989-2010
Sentry - 1990-
C-17 - 2001-
Typhoon - 2005-
Sentinel - 2008-
Voyager - 2012-


-RP

[Pontius Navigator]

Some times in service quoted are 'honest' whereas others are the first year the first of type and last year of last of type. The Dominie for instance certainly remained in active use for the whole of that time.

Vulcan 1957-1984 is not 'honest'. The Mark 1 Vulcan indeed entered service in 1957 but was retires in 1967. The Mark 2 fared better and there is an excellent book (upstairs) that lists the in-service date and disposal for each airframe. The actual RAF ownership of each however is less than the whole.

Command Stats in 1960s showed a number of aircraft in ADA. No idea what it meant but they were in reserve somewhere. Then there were aircraft returned to factory for mod programmes or conversions.

The Herc, not listed, shoulds be separated wit Ks and Js as two marks and different buy.

Lots of the early aircraft as a mark had short lives though some would then have been modified to become a later mark - Hunter F4-T7 for instance.

[Cows getting bigger]

WA638 - 1949? - Present.

[chopper2004]

Rhino,

The 125 was around from the 1960s onwards, with the first prototype flew in 1962 and later on the 60s , deliveries commenced ,

Cheers

[Pontius Navigator]

Chopper, I was suggesting airframe time in service rather than length of service from the basic type.

29 years for the Lightning seems impressive until we look at the F4 - 1967-1992 25 years for the one buy.

[Fareastdriver]

Some Puma airframes are 1971 to present.

[ian16th]

The DC3/C47/Dakota, still in service TODAY with the South African Air Force.

The SAAF took the electronics out of their Shackleton's and fitted it into Turbo Daks and called them Dakleton's!

The South African Air Force (http://www.saairforce.co.za/the-airforce/aircraft/19/c-47tp-turbo-dakota)

[strake]

Well, if we're going foreign..some regular visitors to our (off)shores..the TU-95. 64 years and counting.
Do we consider the BoB Flight a/c as 'serving'?

[Rigga]

B52...still going - and planned to go for some time yet...I think 2040 was mentioned?

[smujsmith]

I would have to agree with Danny42c, #2, in that the Spitfire (possibly Hurricane) might hold the record as both are still in service with BBMF, it may have been retired by the Irish Air Force in 61, the RAF still operate the type, and certainly precede the Lanacaster for in service date. Are there any Tigers still in RAF service ? I would like to think that the Hercules could lay claim to some serious longevity (not reflected in Rhino's post) but equally accept that the K was a different beast to the current "plastic" Albert. I do remember that on joining White team, Base 3 servicing team RAF Colerne in 1971, after a few weeks our new Flight Sgt arrived from an operating Meteor squadron (target towing I believe). I also once flew a fairly ancient ASK8 and maybe it doesn't count as it belonged to the RAFGSA, not the RAF. Crikey, there's so many that did their bit, for ages, because before the throw away economy we "made do and mend", the Shackleton was surely an example of that. Look at the Provist, can you go from the Percival provost to JP5 as a continuous service ? All in all, my guess would have to be that unless you regard BBMF as non RAF, then their Hurricanes and Spitfires must hold the accolade of longest in service. Cat, pigeons GO :eek:

Smudge :ok:

[Davef68]

the Harvard at Boscombe (1944 and counting)



If you take the Harvard as a type, they first entered RAF Service in 1938

[Willard Whyte]

B52...still going - and planned to go for some time yet...I think 2040 was mentioned?

A good'n. Last BUFF rolled (lumbered?) off the production line in June '62.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Boeing_B-52_with_no_vertical_stabilizer.jpg

[JointShiteFighter]

They say the Buff will be going in 2040 ish, but will it? It will soon be the aviation equivalent of Trigger's broom, if it isn't already.

[West Coast]

Valiant - 1955-1965

Why such a short operational life span?

[oldpax]

Avro Anson entered service in the late thirties and was still going strong in the sixties!!
The Valients had spar problems ,that's why they were retired early.

[kenparry]

Valiant - 1955-1965

Why such a short operational life span?

Fatigue issues. It's all covered in the Wikipedia entry for the type.

[Fareastdriver]

The Valiant, and also the Sperrin, was designed and built in a hurry as the RAF were not confident that the Victor and Vulcan could achieve all that was promised and compared with the other two its performance was mediocre.

It soldiered on as a tanker and as a low level bomber but the natural, not fatigue related, deterioration of its main spars brought its service to an end

[salad-dodger]

It soldiered on as a tanker and as a low level bomber but the natural, not fatigue related, deterioration of its main spars brought its service to an end

Age hardening from what I recall. I seem to remember reading that when the issue was being was investigated, it was found that some spars that hadn't even been fitted had already age hardened beyond spec.


S-D

[Fareastdriver]

The corrosion was at Station Zero in the main spar mounting points. The wings were attached by large rivets and when they were reamed out to check the corrosion level sometimes there were just handfuls of powder.

Some of the later ones were cleared for normal service, some ferried under restricted flying to a repair organisation; St Athan/Bristol and others grounded on the spot. However, it was an ideal opportunity for Harold Wilson to step out of the SACEUR nuclear agreement so they were all scrapped.

[nipva]

Meteor - 1944-1977

As I recall, F8 VZ467 (Winston) and T7 WA669 (Clementine) were still active at Brawdy until at least 1982.

[Fareastdriver]

F8 VZ467 (Winston)

Still flying as A77-851 Down Under. Delivered to the RAF in 1950 so that's 65 years. Doesn't need Avtur, goes on a bus pass.

[ShyTorque]

I would have to agree with Danny42c, #2, in that the Spitfire (possibly Hurricane) might hold the record as both are still in service with BBMF, it may have been retired by the Irish Air Force in 61, the RAF still operate the type, and certainly precede the Lanacaster for in service date.The name Spitfire was the same, but the later aircraft were hardly the same airframes and being preserved in the BBMF isn't the same thing as a Mk1 still being in operational service!

Same with most other "long service" RAF aircraft. The name remained, but the old airframes did not. Arguably, the last true squadron flight by a Britsh Spitfire was in 1955, in Hong Kong, with the RHKAAF. The aircraft had gone from Mk1 to the Mk24 in that time.

The VC10 and the Puma HC1 have got to be very near the top of the "real" long service list. As Fareastdriver wrote, the RAF's Puma HC1s date from 1971 and remain in operational use, doing exactly the same job. Despite having been having been upgraded to Mk2 specification, some are fundamentally the same airframes under new clothes.

[Willard Whyte]

It will soon be the aviation equivalent of Trigger's broom, if it isn't already.

Don't think there's been a massive fleet-wide 'program' of rewinging etc., so other than 'line' repairs (and it's quite some line, certainly at Tinker these days) they're pretty much the same structurally as they were 53 years ago.

Lots of new wiggly gubbins inside, but then that's needed for front line combat aircraft rather than raf nostalgia-trip stuff.

[cliver029]

Can I drift this Thread a bit?

Caught the last 30mins of High Flight last night and noticed the serials of a couple of the Hunter F4's , (WV333 and WV362 if you're asking) I then went onto "UKSerials" and looked to see if they were still around maybe.

Quite the opposite in fact they were built in 1955 and scrapped in 1959, and looking at the rest of this batch most seemed to suffer the same fate, why such a short life for what must have been a costly bit of kit in those days?

Drift Off:)

[Rick777]

The first KC135 was delivered in June 1957. Coming up on 60 years and still going strong.

[KenV]

I'm not sure about the rules for what constitutes "length of service," but the DC-3 first flew in Dec 1935. There are many DC-3s still in commercial service in many parts of the world, and in South Africa they're even still in military service. That's nearly 80 years of service for the type.

As for the longest serving individual airframe, the oldest DC-3 still flying ("The Flagship Detroit") was delivered in March 1937. That's over 78 years of flying service for that airframe. I'm guessing that absent a serious accident, that airframe will likely be flying on its 100th birthday.

[pulse1]

And many of the operators of these long serving, great aeroplanes would have had there first air experience in the T21 Sedbergh which I believe served for 38 years. the Cadet MkIII which would have provided the first solo experience was in service for 31 years.

[Hamish 123]

Cliver029,

Possibly something to do with the Duncan Sandys defence review around that time? Lots of squadrons were disbanded, and the overall number of aircraft in the RAF was dramatically reduced on the premise that unmanned vehicles would take over. Looks like Sandys was right, albeit about 60 years too early!

[tornadoken]

op #24: Valiant R&D was funded 4/48 as insurance against delay/failure of (to be) Victor/Vulcan. Production funding was assisted by 50% US contribution after outbreak of the Korean War, to put something in RAF better than Lincoln (built to 1951!) and resurrected B-29s. There was never intent or infrastructure or crew to retain the type after deployment of the proper bombers.

In 1957 NATO agreed to part-fund an RAF Tactical (nuclear) Bomber Force, initially (2/7/59) Canberra B.6/US Mk.7, wef 1/1/60 Valiant/Mk.5. By Polaris Sales Agreement, 6/4/63, TBF was to be replaced by SSBNs assigned to NATO. On 23/5/63 the Medium Bomber Force in its entirety was assigned to Saceur. Plan on that day was to withdraw Valiants as No. 1 SSBN deployed in 1968, to withdraw the Blue Steel/Yellow Sun Mk.2 Vicor/Vulcans during 1969 as additional SSBNs were commissioned, to sustain 1 at sea at all times.

Declaration of Valiant to Saceur lapsed 26/1/65: he must address their 48 targets by juggling his nuclear assets...to which RAF would contribute, not to 1969 but to mid-1995. (FED #28: Harold Wilson did not "step out" of UK's NATO nuclear commitment: there was a brief hiccup, not of his volition).

CO29 #33: US Mutual Defense Program 1951-54 funded much that UK built in response to Korea (which we all saw as dress rehearsal for incursion into N.Germany 1956-ish). Hunter F.4/F.5 were deployed asap as better than Meteor F.8 (if not than loan Sabre F.4s), pending proper machines - Javelins, inc. Thin Wing variants later cancelled. No intent for lengthy operation. (Ditto with Sea Hawks, Javelin early Marks, and more besides: all intended as bridge to better kit).

[Roland Pulfrew]

Meteor - 1944-1977
Vampire - 1945-1972

Surely the Vampire and Meteor were in service longer than that, at least up to (was it?) 1986 and the tragic crash at Mildenhall. There was a Vampire in the hangar at Scampton (one of the Vintage Pair's spares) that was still 'on charge' in 1991. Rumour was that an OC Eng had ordered the wing spar drilled so the jet was instantly, and permanently, unairworthy immediately following the crash :(

[Exnomad]

Fatigue issues and age corrosion.
Our chief stressman had a sample of an alloy extrusion (I think DTD 683) which had never been be near an aicraft, but was covered in cracks.
Very glad it got nowhere near anything I flew.

[Royalistflyer]

It sometimes used to worry me, getting into an aircraft, just how much faith I was putting in the judgement and ability of unknown engineers somewhere.

[1.3VStall]

Royalistflyer,

You clearly weren't flying RAF aircraft then.

[Pontius Navigator]

Nomad, that was the point, spar main spars were fatigued just sitting there.

[Tankertrashnav]

Leaving aside the period up to 1945 when many types had a very short lifetime there are a couple of fairly short-lived types in the post war years. The Swift F1 entered service in 1954 and the last F7 left in 1961. The Basset CC1 lasted a little longer in RAF service, managing nine years from 1967-1974, while the Belfast managed just 10 years in service.

No doubt there are types (as opposed to marks) with much shorter lifetimes - maybe others can find examples

[Pontius Navigator]

The Bassett and Belfast were out of service for economic reasons rather than being superseded. Equally both were job creation types rather than best in class.

The Bassett, as an Anson/Dove replacement was a perfect committee specification - navigator, Decca, toilet (for VSOs to off load numerous cups of coffee).

The Annie could carry a V-bomber crew and kit. So could 2 Bassetts.

[Fareastdriver]

IIRC part of the life extension for Meteors was drilling, inserting grease nipples and then lubricating the aileron bearings as they had been 'lubricated for life' at the factory.

I remember the pre-flight walk round on our Vampires involving getting hold of the ailerons and shaking them to see how much they rattled.

[Frostchamber]

Odd to think that if the B52 carries on until 2040 as suggested, that would be equivalent to a progressively upgraded Vickers Vimy continuing in front line service until around 2007.

[Tankertrashnav]

P-N I had a chum who got a posting as a Basset Nav straight out of Stradishall. I flew on a jolly with him to Northolt once and thought he had landed a real doddle of a job - trundling up and down the airways on Decca. Not really the job to give a keen young nav though, maybe better given to an old spec aircrew who just fancied a quiet life.

[smujsmith]

Anyone have any idea of length of service of the Chipmunk ?

Smudge :ok:

[OldAgeandTreachery]

I can't see any mention of the venerable Shackleton.It did 40 years front line,operational service but it's looks made it seem much, much more than that.
Standby.

[ericferret]

I am surprised that none of the fish heads have jumped in to point out that HMS Victory launched in 1765 and currently Flagship of the First Sea Lord takes a bit of beating for a long serving piece of military kit!!!!!! It can't fly I suppose but it does have style.

[Kitbag]

Never mind fly, I don't think that Victory can float any more can it? At least no-one has suggested claiming the Sopwith Pup at Cosford (which would be the equivalent I suppose).

[Schiller]

No, Kitbag, you're right it can't float. The present masts are made of steel and rest on the dock bottom, stayed out to the dockyard on either side.

[Dr Jekyll]

Surely the Vampire and Meteor were in service longer than that, at least up to (was it?) 1986 and the tragic crash at Mildenhall. There was a Vampire in the hangar at Scampton (one of the Vintage Pair's spares) that was still 'on charge' in 1991. Rumour was that an OC Eng had ordered the wing spar drilled so the jet was instantly, and permanently, unairworthy immediately following the crash

I thought the Meteor that crashed in 88 was one of the Vintage Pair's spares.

[Davef68]

Oldest type to enter service with the RAF must be the C-135..... first flew 1956 , entered service 2014. Imagine the Vickers Vimy had entered service in 1975.....

Shortest service career in recent years (well officially at least) must be the DA42 Twin Star, November 2008 to July 2009.

[typerated]

RNZAF didn't do too bad in the mid 60s


UH-1 just gone this year
C-130 and P-3 still soldiering on.

[Dockers]

Smudge

My references have the Chipmunk entering service in 1950, making 65 years!

[PersonFromPorlock]

So far as WW2 piston-engined fighters go, El Salvador sold off its Mustangs and Corsairs in 1974. These had been used in combat during the 'Soccer War' of July, 1969.

[Valiantone]

The USAF is deactivating the Nuclear capability on 30 odd B-52Hs but is apparently reactivating about 12 odd B-52H airframes stored in DM.


V1