PDA

View Full Version : Emirates DEC


Caesar2005
17th Sep 2015, 01:42
and so it begins, EK sending out emails to pilots who did not get in last time as DEC, "please update your details and hours, due to market forces we are now recruiting B777 DEC" what a joke, and all the F/O who have served their time over the last 4 years and who have prev Command can suck it up and do some more babysitting with the newbies, a shame.

SOPS
17th Sep 2015, 02:15
Does it really say, 'due to market forces'?

Mr Good Cat
17th Sep 2015, 02:59
Just out of interest - is this non-rated DEC or are they recalling previously failed rated DECs? Or just guys who didn't quite have the experience levels desired last time?

altocu
17th Sep 2015, 03:11
I fail to see how this is going to do anything but exacerbate the present shortage of F/Os, as it will force many who were thinking about leaving to pull the trigger.

Apart from that, we'll now have DECs with limited experience of both the operation and the aircraft passing on their wisdom to low-experience F/Os. What could possibly go wrong?

OnceBitten
17th Sep 2015, 04:04
Sop's. The exact wording is "the companies requirements are changing in response to market forces".

Good cat, Non rated.

Good luck to all potential candidates.

Wh1sper
17th Sep 2015, 04:49
This will indeed be the final nail in the coffin for many EK FO's.

Jumeirah James
17th Sep 2015, 08:55
I pity the poor FO's waiting to go R to L. A kick in the gonads for sure :hmm:

bigdaviet
17th Sep 2015, 09:06
Is there anyone with a 777 rating who would want to come as DEC?

If it's non rated will there be many? And how many of those will pass the assessment?

fatbus
17th Sep 2015, 10:48
777 guys trying to get out of China and any wide body Boeing pilots forced retire at 55.

Monarch Man
17th Sep 2015, 11:00
777 guys trying to get out of China and any wide body Boeing pilots forced retire at 55.


So basically no one then.

Emma Royds
17th Sep 2015, 11:31
The sad thing is that there are far better options out there for 777 drivers who may be stuck in the depths of Guangzhou or elsewhere in China and want out.

This has the potential to get very ugly if they can't get the numbers of DECs that they feel they need, which we all suspect they won't.

VLS with ice
17th Sep 2015, 12:55
They will take non rated. Did it before, will do it again. This is nothing new.

777 sheikher
17th Sep 2015, 14:16
well good luck to them, I'm sure there are plenty to be around the Amazon regions !!

ExDubai
17th Sep 2015, 14:20
The sad thing is that there are far better options out there for 777 drivers who may be stuck in the depths of Guangzhou or elsewhere in China and want out.

This has the potential to get very ugly if they can't get the numbers of DECs that they feel they need, which we all suspect they won't.

I doubt that they will get the numbers which they need. But for sure they'll get a number of F/O's which are totally p****d about the situation and take the next possible exit.

The Dominican
17th Sep 2015, 14:32
Only the A330 DEC offer on the jobs page:confused:

ExDubai
17th Sep 2015, 14:53
Only the A330 DEC offer on the jobs page

They've done a "first pitch" via Email to pilots which did not made it last time. I'm sure there will be an offer on the job page in near future.....

beachbumflyer
17th Sep 2015, 17:38
FO's should resign en masse to see what management does.

Pointer
17th Sep 2015, 18:11
@ Beachbum: yeah and that's gonna work? Not in our lifetime..

What they should do is refuse to fly with guys that don't have a clue instead of holding their hand: file an ASR every time they need baby sittin.. I feel sorry for our FO's that will be caught out, specially those júst being left in the 'cold' because of that.. I was on that side not too many years ago..

Mr Angry from Purley
17th Sep 2015, 18:44
Can the average line Captain fly RHS? :\

SOPS
17th Sep 2015, 23:56
What does it say, when they are contacting people who were found not suitable last time, to say please try again.

Mix that in with a whole lot of inexperienced Fos.

The third floor will love it. They will be able to hand out final warning letters at a record rate.

vfenext
18th Sep 2015, 02:23
SOPS, still bitter n twisted and becoming more so as the days go by. Forced retirement suits you. Yes yes you'll deny it was forced but others are saying different. Explains a lot really.

Dropp the Pilot
18th Sep 2015, 03:04
About six months from now I will be outbound from DXB for the last time, never to return. I have promised myself that once the wheels are up on that flight I will never on any occasion think of EK again.

My wife and and I are practicing the drill now. If I ever do mention EK again in any context of complaint or umbrage she is to slap me on the back of my wizened head and say "Remember what happened to SOPS!"

SOPS
18th Sep 2015, 03:04
Nothing forced at all VFE, you make me laugh.:p

cerbus
18th Sep 2015, 04:07
Only thing forced Vfe Next is you being forced to stay at Emirates. Where are you going to go?
SOPs is living the life we all envision and he did it on his terms. Stop the B.S lies about how he was forced out. Not so.
Do you think what the company is doing to us is okay? Now the DECs!
Think of the logic where a failed interviewee wasn't good in the past but is now. What changed? We all know Emirates will not attract any widebody captains or anyone that has heard about what is going on here.

QCM
18th Sep 2015, 15:00
Anyway guys no worries...a lot of DEC in progress for sure...
Direct Exit Captains :p

bia botal
22nd Sep 2015, 04:33
DEC on the 777 has now begun, all be it by stealth, with guys who were deemed unsuitable 4 years ago receiving letters from EK asking them to come on down!

nakbin330
24th Sep 2015, 10:20
I see from the ad that 330 DEC basic is Dhs42 015. I've been a skipper for >7 years and my basic is Dhs42 120 ...

BANANASBANANAS
24th Sep 2015, 10:42
The ad is misleading nakbin - deliberately so I am sure.

The 42015 Dirhams that is quoted includes 85 hours of flying allowances. But it would be very easy to interpret it the way that you, and no doubt many candidates, have.

nakbin330
24th Sep 2015, 11:46
Thanks Bananas.

bigdaviet
25th Oct 2015, 09:22
And so it begins...

Shadowsonclouds
25th Oct 2015, 10:08
What another large pile for the bucket.

altocu
25th Oct 2015, 10:21
C'mon, your career path is "not going to be adversely affected"! :*

GoreTex
25th Oct 2015, 10:38
I told you so

Cloud Bunny
25th Oct 2015, 10:39
Disappointing? Yes. Inevitable? Yes. However(!) having just witnessed what happened to a couple of mates of mine who we're originally told of lengthy delays after interviewing I'm almost inclined to believe him. Almost.

Wh1sper
25th Oct 2015, 10:55
At least he had the balls to tell us about it. So I'm curious, where will they find these DEC's?
I know FO's that will resign because of this.

donpizmeov
25th Oct 2015, 11:06
FOs resign because of this? I doubt that. They all joined knowing it happens, and DECs have been advertised on the 330 for ages.

It should be no surprise that the company cares not about employee progression.

EK773ER
25th Oct 2015, 11:15
with regards to satisfying manning issues, why do they not focus on how to stop current experienced valuable pilots from leaving, rather than only concentrating on recruiting?

concentrate on retaining!!!

what they have been recruiting in the past few months has simply replaced those who have left.


the total batch of pilots (my batch mates) i had when i joined has almost halved.....

bittersweetheart
25th Oct 2015, 11:35
Don,

Wh1sper is right. FO:s ARE resigning over this, wether you doubt it or not. Granted, probably not in large numbers though as few can afford to hand in the notice without a new paycheck in sight...

Career decisions are hopefully based on available information and current state of affairs, and you will have to agree that the situation was slightly different 3-4 years ago, albeit already on a slide. This is just a guess, but perhaps some candidates made the assumption that the company would not conduct two rounds of DEC recruitment so close together.. Now proven wrong obviously, but your 'told you so:s' might not tell the whole story for all colleagues.

With the 2012 round of DEC:s, a large number of FO:s will now have been bypassed twice. That is quite a tough pill to swallow, in particular since the number of upgrade qualifying FO:s is considerably higher than last time round. And with 90+ hours a month the new standard, added to our fantastic new bidding system, one has to ask how much love there was for the company prior this email from JA.

donpizmeov
25th Oct 2015, 12:18
The only change that has happened is that the jets are no longer as shiny, or it happening to them and not someone else.

777-200LR
25th Oct 2015, 12:19
I take my hat off to JA for telling it like it is.

Right now I could care less where these guys come from (sorry to all my FO mates), but I'm tired of 90++ hour rosters and we all need a break. As for FOs resigning, I doubt it will be in big numbers. EK put everyone in this mess and now its their gamble as to whether it pays off or not, DECs are no surprise as its been happening as long as I've been here. Fortunately for EK, there are some 'heavy' Captains that are in the market who speak fluent Russian and Malay with 777 and 330 experience.

V1cutz
25th Oct 2015, 12:35
And you honestly think the roster's will get better and we won't be flying 90+ hours a month with these DEC's? For every DEC they hire, probably two or more current line captains are leaving and probably many more looking for an escape. This will do nothing except piss off the the FO's who are probably more qualified than the candidates they will get for the DEC position.

GoreTex
25th Oct 2015, 12:36
777,
you will still do 90+ hours, they just hire enough to keep the planes flying not to make your life better, keep dreaming

singleseater
25th Oct 2015, 12:42
I disagree, he has not told it like it is, he has spun the s***t out of it.
The reason they need DEC's is because they can not recruit F/O's. This is a very different situation to the past when they could not recruit or train fast enough into just 1 seat and so had to spread the load.
The F/O's are being severely disadvantaged. They are being By-Passed because the company refuses to face the real world and compete for the crews they need with a package that reflects reality, not some pie-in-the-sky, rose coloured version they subscribe to.
This, coupled with the reduced requirements of the recruiting sim!!!!!, look out, the holes in the cheese just got a lot closer together.

TwinJock
25th Oct 2015, 12:42
I take my hat off to JA for telling it like it is.

Agreed....

Fortunately for EK, there are some 'heavy' Captains that are in the market who speak fluent Russian and Malay with 777 and 330 experience.

not only captains - FO's are here already!

springbok449
25th Oct 2015, 13:12
Its not so much FOs resigning we need to worry about its more the ones that won't come to EK we need to be concerned about, all the FOs looking at the Middle East will opt for EY and QR, this is one of the biggest problems EK face, once it was the preferred airline in this neck of the woods not so anymore...

Having said the above, with the amount of experience sitting in the RH seat at the moment its a real shame to have received the email this afternoon and it certainly won't help morale no matter how pretty they tried to paint the picture it will of course delay courses...

777-200LR, I am also sick and tired of flying over 90hrs every month but it doesn't mean that we should just be happy and accept more DECs in oder to"reduce" our hours (which won't happen anyway) lets all stick together for once instead of merely saying "I am alright Jack".

Rather Be Skiing
25th Oct 2015, 14:28
This, of course, was an inevitability.

It is, indeed, not a message any FO wanted to see. It also will do little to relieve the overwork of the Captains. EK has dug itself such a deep hole that tweaks like this will accomplish little.

Morale will take another hit, recruitment won't be any easier and attrition will not slow. The only thing they can do in the short term that may have some impact is a BIG improvement to the package. They won't do it, of course.

More airplanes, more routes, more pilots leaving and not nearly enough pilots joining... not really the ideal recipe for running an airline.

donpizmeov
25th Oct 2015, 15:29
I am pretty sure even the Muppets know this isn't going to work. They tried lowering from "upright and breathing" to "recently had a pulse" for FOs and still couldn't find anyone. They had no option other than go this route as they are too tight fisted and short sighted to try and fix the root cause.

glofish
25th Oct 2015, 15:38
The reason for this measure is, as had been rightfully put, that not enough eligible FOs apply to EK. Word is on the street that you work too much, you can't get home due to catastrophic rostering and no leave, the package is inadequate unless you move to the left and the latter will no happen before 7 to 8 years.

Thus EK has to revert to DECs to fill the seats. There seems to be a small pool of desperate skippers around the world that just barely match the requirements.

The outcome will be even less FOs applying, logically enough because all the above gets even worse, therefore EK will have to continue to recruit DECs and the vicious circle engages.

EK will not up the conditions for skippers, because as long as they can recruit some, they think the package is sufficient. But in the short run they will run out of FOs and the RHS will be filled with skippers.

Then they will run out of applications by skippers because word will be out on the street that the conditions are not great and that half of the time you will work as a FO ........

Great leadership and foresight. Bravo management!!

fatbus
25th Oct 2015, 15:46
I laugh at some pilots that think this time is any different to the past. Same same !. Always has been always will. Been going on for 20 + years

Twiglet1
25th Oct 2015, 18:01
There was a big glossy article on Emirates in Airliner World this month.
It stated 7 crews per aircraft - for Long Haul Ops, yes you get economy of scale but this seems extremely light in my humble opinion.

sonylaptop
25th Oct 2015, 18:13
Guys over 10 years in, sat overseas, interview tomorrow, no point ranting, just vote with your feet, only way things will change..if this Company wants to succeed it's seriously needs to get with the program. Start offering commuting, I cannot live and more importantly my wife and kids don't want to live in a compound, corralled anymore, I want my freedom back.

kingpost
25th Oct 2015, 18:25
If they believe that no FO will be jeopardised with this move, why don't they offer bypass pay to the eligible FO's?

misd-agin
25th Oct 2015, 19:57
No dog in the hunt... but... if enough eligible FO's aren't applying doesn't using DECS as the solution doom the current FO's to their current job? So why would a well qualified FO apply if he knows he's going to get stuck in the right seat????


And if the requirements have dropped and the candidate pool still isn't large enough what's that say about the future manning/hiring cycle?

Cuillin Hills
25th Oct 2015, 20:44
I couldn't think of anything worse than joining as a DEC and getting caught up in all the 'politics' between training captains, managers, first officers etc.

As someone has previously said - there are better options up the road at 'you-know-who' and QR if you are looking at DEC in the Middle East.

One to avoid - even though I would consider myself as having the entry requirements for DEC.

Best of luck, guys.

PS Heard that DEC BA @ LGW might be opening up sooner rather than later.

KTM300XC-W
25th Oct 2015, 22:48
As someone who was considering going to the Calgary roadshow in a couple of days there's no way I would consider it now. The possibility of joining as an older FO just to have to worry about this years down the road makes this a no brainer. Whoever posted the comment regarding DEC's harming future FO applications hit the nail on the head.
The best of luck to you all.

highfive
26th Oct 2015, 00:49
Isn't it ironic though, that the skippers who are leaving, are taking DEC at other companies, , and so disadvantaging another bunch of FOs?
Norwegian , Ryanair come to mind.

EK will always be able to attract experienced crew. How? Well if recruitment of DEC for the A330 doesn't work, offer it on the 777.Abig advert in Flight.
Not enough guys for this? Then open up DEC on the 380. Now who wouldn't at least consider this?

And lets not forget early retirees from europe who are not in it for the long term, just a few years before full retirement. Lufthansa, Air France BA and so on and so forth. SQ was full of BA retirees 20 years ago. Same for Gulf Air.

Finally, its all very well flying the wide bodies, but the real recruitment in Europe at least, is for rated narrow body guys. BA want 350 A320 guys. Not good if you are an FO in EK on the B777 or even A380.

And as is said often on prune, where can you go thats going to reduce your hours and increase your pay? Let me know by PM :ok:

Payscale
26th Oct 2015, 03:11
We have always had DECs from time to time. If you didnt know that thats your fault.

You cant slag EK on ppprune for years and tell people to stay away, secretly hoping for a massive pay rise, and then when people actually stay away you get hypertensive over DECs coming.

The planes are coming so what did you expect?

Cuillin Hills
26th Oct 2015, 03:43
Don't forget, though, it is a race to the bottom in respect of terms and conditions at certain jobs in UK/Europe.

70% contracts, no annual increments for long service, no healthcare, poor allowances, poor pension etc is the deal at a certain lo-cost in the northern part of the UK.

Working your bits off at the Orange one at Gatwick - you could only make it work if you lived within 20 minutes of the airport.

Contracts with an employment agency that give you very little employment rights at our Norwegian friends.

Ryanair UK contract appears to be one of the better options at the moment.

Be aware of what you are coming back to in Europe - the grass isn't necessarily greener.

If I was younger I would be trying to get into BA.

There is no ideal job.

It is whatever is best for the individuals/ family circumstances.

As an observation, it appears that QR are scooping up most of the qualified DECs that are interested in moving to the Gulf.

glofish
26th Oct 2015, 05:01
Totally agree. They are all trying to beat the others in the race to the bottom. Why did not one outfit complaining about the ME3 evoque the abismal rostering conditions and cheating on the FTLs? Simply because that's what they'd like to go for as well.

Stay out of the pilots business for good, that's at least my advice to young colleagues. You might have spent a fortune, money the airlines were supposed to fork out, but you are still young enough to change course and avoid your impasse that only leads to spoil your health and relationships and does no longer allow to provide for a decent retirement.

I handed over the savings for education to my son for uni with his honest promise of not spending one dollar for aviation until he has at least a master degree.

30+ years of civil aviation have spoken.

The Turtle
26th Oct 2015, 07:14
Do you honestly believe a qualified DEC from BA, SQ, etc would decide to come here with 90+ hr rosters, few choices of trips, and this mgmt culture?

Please.

ExDubai
26th Oct 2015, 07:48
Nope, but there are countries where the conditions and the pay are much worse. For a russian captain, the terms and conditions might look much better then at home.

CDRW
26th Oct 2015, 07:50
Turtle - very valid point. But I think you should write " who would WANT to ....."
A lot don't want to - a lot have to!

The Dominican
26th Oct 2015, 08:03
ExDubai
For a russian captain, the terms and conditions might look much better then at home.


Sometimes you have to put food on the table when there is a Transaero type of event....!

highfive
26th Oct 2015, 08:24
Pilots on final salary pension wont listen to what you are saying here. They will come for a couple of years fun in the sun.
They can always call sick ?
Then bugger off after 2 yrs, why not?
Was the same elsewhere . If you got decent pension then no worries.

And if the 380 is an option , EK will be flooded with applications , agree ?

fatbus
26th Oct 2015, 09:10
Pilot with a BA pension , 2/3 years playing golf and pressing 2 . Just wait for them.

The Turtle
26th Oct 2015, 09:25
Valid points.

I suppose their tolerance level will be less than EK expects, as well.....

Makes for interesting times....shame I have a ringside seat

migair54
26th Oct 2015, 11:00
Now Korean Airlines is also accepting pilots DEC and FO for the A380 fleet, are they going. So maybe more problems for EK in the future with the PIC's. Offering 12 days OFF consecutive per month, I know many people talks bad about KE but maybe some of them decide to move.

A380 CAPTAIN ? 12 CONSECUTIVE DAYS OFF PER MONTH - Sigma Sigma » Blog Archive

How are the senior FO going to react to this new DEC for B777 offer??

gardenshed
26th Oct 2015, 13:22
I think we can look at JA's letter two ways.
First off at least he had the gonads to issue it, normally the first we hear of it is the advert in Flight International.
Second it is an admission of management failure Big Style, and Time, in that their policies in regards to pay, QOL etc etc etc, with their arrogance that EK is some golden airline, and if it's here, they will come.
Well, they are not coming, sure the desperate will as they have no choice, but DEC on the A330 is a slow death sentence.
DEC on the B777 will just piss off a large number of experienced F/o's who through no fault of their own will suffer, as we just can't get enough F/o's through the door to release them for upgrade.
This has a feel of the band played on, as the Titanic slid majestically beneath the waves. They have to be seen to be doing something, even though the supertanker that is EK is heading for its own iceberg.

glofish
26th Oct 2015, 13:42
Maybe they are eager to have a blockbuster made in 70 years or so .....

altocu
26th Oct 2015, 17:52
On a positive note, I'm completing a management degree at the moment, and EK management are the gift that keeps on giving! No shortage of material for my assignments.:)

Yorkshire_Pudding
26th Oct 2015, 17:57
SQ was full of BA retirees 20 years ago. Same for Gulf Air.

But these days the normal BA retirement age is the same as EK, SQ etc.

bafanguy
26th Oct 2015, 20:23
Cuillin Hills (or anyone else in the know),

"PS Heard that DEC BA @ LGW might be opening up sooner rather than later."

If you'd excuse and indulge an interested observer a moment of thread drift, are you saying that your long-established legacy carrier, British Airways, will/might be taking on DECs ?

Assuming a seniority list is in effect there, how would DECs jive with the seniority system that would normally govern attempts at upgrade for existing FOs ?

I get the impression I've misunderstood something here.

Thanks...

Pixy
26th Oct 2015, 20:40
DEC’s are an inevitability given the circumstances and in principle justifiable for any airline. The letter is at least a heads up that the decision has been formally made and probably an attempt to control the many rumors that generally surrounds this type of event.

It’s out in the open and plainly explained. However I think most of the posters on this forum are perhaps missing the subtext and once again being distracted by the magicians in the bouncy castle.

The general context on this forum is that those management types are a bunch of incompetent idiots who make one mistake after another. Nothing could be further from the truth. The minds up there that manipulate the T&C’s the FTL’s etc are very smart and light years ahead of general pilot group. They have the following advantages:


Many of them are more experienced in a management role. They do this all day and learn.
They have access to information and statistics that employees don’t have.
They have the benefit of synergy. Most options are discussed and deliberated in teams.
They have the benefit of technology. Scenarios, cost outcomes, crewing are all trial run on software.
Their planning is not reactive. Often it is strategized years in advance and changes made subtly and over time to the final outcome. The pilots react to each itemized change rather than the macro change.
They are coherent, briefed and hold a common “business case” line. Employees react individually, emotionally, without full facts.
They have the communications and broadcast ability to propagate and support decisions and the given reasoning. They can spin the public perception. Likewise they have the ability to ignore, obfuscate or muzzle any dissent.
They have the authority and the power. Agencies can authorize, lawyers can support.

For these reasons the changes have been to their advantage and not to the benefit of the employees whose detriment is beyond reasonable argument.

This is not peculiar to this company, it is a growing phenomenon of the 21st century where ever bigger companies have the clout to push through what they like with little objection of the various regulatory authorities whose very job is to control the power of large entities. In this era authorities are lobbied and bought. It eventually results in tears but the minions do the crying.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a supporter of those who design and support these changes. I believe what goes on is immoral, manipulative, and usurious and flies in the face of all that is good, honest and human. I would rather have less but be able to look at myself in the mirror. However to call them stupid IS stupid.

But back to the debate and my own suspicions; perhaps publicizing the basic decision of recruiting DEC is with the deliberate intention to distract those affected with the outrage that is evident. Angry people tend not to think and become myopic.

I believe the focus should be on what has not been said. And acknowledging the reasons they can get all the DEC’s they like, contrary to some views posted.

In one word: money.

What is promised is that “career paths will not be adversely affected”. What is not mentioned is the salary at which the DEC’s will enter on. That is up to discussion and negotiation. At all grades of employment in the company, the salary has a bracket. The company will advertise and offer the lowest (obviously) but are able to vary this, depending on how much they like and need the candidate. HR must have the ability to negotiate with any new employees.

Likewise within the pilot pay scales this can be done and has been done in the past.

Pilot salaries are from Step 1 to 30. A third year FO getting upgraded goes from level 3 up 12 steps to level 15. Logically one would then surmise that a DEC should come in at Step 13, as if he came in at Step 1 and a day later jumped 12 steps. Do the math on the figures on the employment site and this will be evident. Step 13 is exactly what they advertise less 85 flying hours. (As an aside, it is worth noting that 85 block hours a month, as advertised, is 1020 a year. That is the expectation of us all and should ring bells with prospective pilots looking at the type of flying on the A330 and B777 while factoring in life in Dubai in general)

Everyone seems to assume the salary for a DEC would be lower than existing captains and would fit into some equitable schedule. In fact this used to be the case, for many years the salary scale was transparently published with explanatory notes. Shortly before the initial large DEC intake this quietly disappeared taking the published system with it.

However, if the company needs DEC’s enough there is nothing to stop them employing at, say, level 20. If an FO employed on Step 1, finally gets his upgrade after 4 years of being here he will jump to level 17. However the upgraded FO will forever be behind on salary even though he did his RHS time, is senior and is also now a captain.

The question has never been whether they will take DEC’s and lamenting the injustices of being held back. No - the question should be “What will they be paid?” and “When I make it to Captain after swallowing the bitter pill of “operational or training need” will I be the same or better off than the DEC?”

Those are the real questions I would be asking. And openly publishing that the ultimate outcome will be kept in an equitable financial order would be the right and sensible thing to do.

Cuillin Hills
27th Oct 2015, 07:36
Cuillin Hills (or anyone else in the know),

"PS Heard that DEC BA @ LGW might be opening up sooner rather than later."

If you'd excuse and indulge an interested observer a moment of thread drift, are you saying that your long-established legacy carrier, British Airways, will/might be taking on DECs ?

Assuming a seniority list is in effect there, how would DECs jive with the seniority system that would normally govern attempts at upgrade for existing FOs ?

I get the impression I've misunderstood something here.

Thanks...


Yes.

Expansion at LGW (London Gatwick) and a big lack of volunteers from the mainline ranks means there is a very high likelihood of requirements for A320 DECs into BA in the near future.

Check with any BA flight deck colleagues to have this confirmed.

BA will have gone through to the bottom of the seniority list and looked at the bidding and there will still be a number of vacancies for A320 captains at LGW - hence DEC.

Emma Royds
27th Oct 2015, 08:55
Pixy

We cannot dispute that our management are brilliant at running a very profitable airline but they are atrocious in how they manage their own staff. Would we be seeing more DECs now if there were sufficient F/Os who were suitable and wanting to join the company, as there are many F/Os with the experience for promotion at present? One could argue that the announcement of DECs coming is a great example of a reactive decision, which demonstrates little forethought. All the good qualities that management should possess as listed by yourself, are in abundance within our own management in a commercial context but are sadly lacking, when it comes to how they manage their own people.

The situation that we are now in is one that seems to create little anger amongst F/Os, as the general feeling is perhaps one of despondency. The email from JA announced something that has been the subject of rumour and discussion for months. It was something that many of us were expecting and it came as little surprise.

As I see it, management are dealing their last card from their deck with the decision to recruit DECs. If they can't recruit the number that they need, then they face a problem and perhaps a serious one too. As they say desperate times require desperate measures. Could these desperate measures involve offering new DEC joiners more than what the company would be inclined to initially offer? I personally wouldn't be at all surprised if so.

As for the wider discussion involving Malaysians or Russians joining, then I can't see there being many despite the woes within those countries. It's just too competitive at the moment for 330 and 777 pilots, with plenty of other options around. Some being a lot closer to home for the Malaysians as well. The one thing that could pose a hurdle for Russians is their English proficiency along with the autocratic management style that seems to be so common on the flight deck in that part of the world.

The next few months will be very interesting indeed.

bafanguy
27th Oct 2015, 10:15
Cuillin Hills,

Thanks. Check PMs.

skyvan
8th Nov 2015, 14:16
Just pushing this to the top since the advert is now on the website.

bringbackthe80s
4th Dec 2015, 12:32
all the people I know who went to the DEC selection did not pass, has anyone actually got the job?

natops
4th Dec 2015, 13:02
all the people I know who went to the DEC selection did not pass, has anyone actually got the job?

How many people are you talking about?

Alloy
4th Dec 2015, 16:48
I'm aware of people with job offers for EK as DEC, wether they all take it is another matter....

A320CaptDav
4th Dec 2015, 17:18
They seem to be interested in applications that are in the 55+ age group , as most of those applicants have near retirement experience, And its a good short term solution for them that will cover them for next 5-7yrs.

LHR Rain
4th Dec 2015, 23:57
But it is not a good solution both short and long term for the current EK FOs.

A320CaptDav
5th Dec 2015, 00:59
If EK is successful in attracting the right applicants DEC then it's gonna be short term pain to get the DEC stabilized but once done they will have established a system of getting command ready pilots for the foreseeable future.( long term gain)

EK would end up saving a lot of time and money in not having to upgrade their own FOs , the current FOs better start looking elsewhere for a PIC upgrade.

All the best !

keepitrealok
5th Dec 2015, 05:50
A320CaptDav,

I hope you are one of the DEC applicants, and I also hope you are successful.

EK Management deserve someone of your intellect and logical reasoning skills.

:E

SOPS
5th Dec 2015, 08:33
Maybe, if EK treated the people they had/have with just a little bit of respect, instead of answering every request with the answer "if you don't like it, you can always leave", they wouldn't have a recruitment/ DEC requirement in the first place, A320CapDav.

sluggums
5th Dec 2015, 10:17
And is the reason the company is in so much sh*t regarding manning. They've done the exact opposite...

Short term gain resulting in Long term pain.

ExDubai
5th Dec 2015, 10:48
Maybe, if EK treated the people they had/have with just a little bit of respect, instead of answering every request with the answer "if you don't like it, you can always leave", they wouldn't have a recruitment/ DEC requirement in the first place, A320CapDav.

No HR strategy for a long long time.......

FcU
5th Dec 2015, 17:49
I have always felt that the DEC policy was not right for the long term benefit of Emirates pilot body, however, there have always been DECs hired here. Every pilot joining in the last 15 years has known that fact when they joined. Regardless of your experience or abilities Emirates will always do what's best for Emirates. You have my sympathies but you can't be surprised.

donpizmeov
5th Dec 2015, 21:38
I think it's got to the stag now where you would be silly to join other than as a DEC.

A320CaptDav
5th Dec 2015, 22:15
Well they don't care as long as the airplanes fly . That is evident by the fact that they are willing to take atpl holders and put them on a right seat of a b777 /330 as for DEC , well I guess be prepared to fly ur butt of but for people flying a narrow body getting the oppuruntiy to fly the left seat of a widebody has become seldom. QR only takes people with widbebody experience for their 330/777 and the other airline we don't speak off I'm not sure. But joining as an FO would be a foolish decision for any pilot. With DEc, command upgrade time would be a longer wait on the right seat and as I sad if the DEC program works well then the FOs need to go elsewhere for command.

SOPs and keepirealok hope you get my perspective clearly. I also personally feel the entire EK interview process very lacking. It's all about putting in a big act on getting through. It's about how well you can lie to be honest that I say that is I know of 2 pilots who had major CRM problems and lacked basic flying knowledge who are now flying on the right seat at EK and keep complaining about how bad things are and why they are not getting their command upgrade. Sad to say but yes EK has become a big dump with all the good pilots leaving .

Looks like Qr is the best gig in the Middle East for a career point of view.

fliion
6th Dec 2015, 00:41
And you know that the pilots leaving are the 'good' ones....how exactly?

A320CaptDav
6th Dec 2015, 01:36
Yes I know a few good fellas who quite recently caz they knew what was better for them

harry the cod
6th Dec 2015, 05:52
A320CaptDav

DEC's will have little to no impact on upgrades simply because of the numbers. Overall, I'd be surprised if there are more than 30 who join. That's a months worth of F/O upgrades. It's a poor policy and one which nobody agrees with other than management and DECs themselves. As a previous poster has already stated, the policy has been around for as long as the airline. It's a means to keep the planes flying when planning has got the numbers wrong which they do with incessant regularity.

As for the idiots who made it through, well, that's going to happen in any airline and we have a few for sure. However, recruitment generally do a good job and most of the guys here are a good bunch. Furthermore, getting in is just one filter in the many these individuals will encounter on the road to command. Quite a few will be flagged along the way as unsuitable and will have remedial HF sessions before being considered for command. For some, the penny drops whilst others may remain in the right seat until retirement, voluntary or otherwise. DEC policy removes those extra filters but is tough. Ask those that get through the course, it's no walk in the park for sure.

...and yes, without doubt ther're are still one or two rare cases of 'unsuitables' slipping through the net....again, as in every airline no doubt! :uhoh:

Harry

fliion
6th Dec 2015, 13:14
Ah ...the old 'all' and 'few' trick

:)

trimotor
8th Dec 2015, 02:38
Standby for 380 DEC...apllicants who have declined a 777 DEC offer have been told to sit tight and 380 will be along soon...so I hear..

Reecey
13th Dec 2015, 07:37
I have been told the recent DEC thing is a spoof. They are trying to get people into the MENTALITY of moving to the sand and then offering FO positions. There has been 2 offers of DEC and the rest given/offered 777 FO jobs and the initial take up is good.They learnt last time that it upset too many people. Waste your time if you want but, be prepared for a lower offer........

The Dominican
13th Dec 2015, 09:27
Perhaps the experience pool is not that deep of the people applying...???

donpizmeov
13th Dec 2015, 10:35
It's been done before when fellas didn't cut the mustard for DEC, but would be ok for an FO position. Nothing new here.

A320CaptDav
13th Dec 2015, 17:58
Well if they are saying your not fit to fly on the left seat then that means your gonna be a permanent F/O

The Dominican
14th Dec 2015, 01:13
A320CaptDav
Permanent downgrade
Well if they are saying your not fit to fly on the left seat then that means your gonna be a permanent F/O


Jeez......, Really??

There are no absolutes in this business compadre!

A320CaptDav
14th Dec 2015, 01:34
Advertising for a DEC position :D and interviewing and saying ...OK we can't offer you the left seat but the right seat... is a := on the face...


IMHO :ok:

donpizmeov
14th Dec 2015, 01:51
It's called protecting the business Dave, this is why there is an assessment. Not all commanders are equal. It's up to the individual if they want to accept the job or not.
The ones they think will never make the left seat won't get the offer.

Surely it's not that hard a concept to understand.

The Dominican
14th Dec 2015, 02:05
It's called protecting the business Dave, this is why there is an assessment. Not all commanders are equal. It's up to the individual if they want to accept the job or not.

Exactly right......, you might have the numbers on your resume to go for the position but during the assessment show holes on your game..., No problem! Come as an F/O, gain more experience and go for the brass ring later on....!

Maybe you would rather them not making any offers?

That is pretty common in most contracts worldwide that offer DEC positions..., a lot of guys that I know were offered F/O positions instead of DEC after assessment are now captains...., they didn't take the ridiculous pride stance and after a couple of years of gaining more experience are now on the left seat.

What's wrong with that...?

A320CaptDav
14th Dec 2015, 02:50
Don and Dom

I think you got my message out of context. I FULLY AGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT... whats specific to this case is that its with ref to EK who have a lot of F/O's already in the company eligible and competent for hiring onto the left seat. I am aware QR and "XYZ" have also hired Capts as F/O's. And many DECs that applied to EK as FO's in the past were hired as FO's regardless of their previous experience.

If EK choose to open up DEC and call someone for the job and then say OK your not good enough to go left now but you can go right, well keep in mind if that individual wanted to come as an F/O he would have applied for an F/O position. So telling the guy your not up the mark is disrespectful.

All that said ! I know of one DEC with an interesting flying record and most importantly he's got an exemplary CRM record so the recruitment team clearly slipped up.

Desperate times call for desperate measures! Provided its done the right way

donpizmeov
14th Dec 2015, 03:32
The recruitment team get to see someone for a few hours over a few days. They get 40min to see them operate the SIM on a profile that the candidate already knows. To tell everything about someone's past in that time is impossible. Reference checks are the only help, but doubtful true references will be given if something is dodgy. The recruitment team do a great job. So do training, some DEC don't pass the course if they don't make the grade.
It's not rocket science. If you feel disrespected because companies aren't falling over to make you a DEC I suggest you may need to Harden up.

clear to land
14th Dec 2015, 03:48
How is it disrespectful to tell someone they won't make the grade-sounds like a simple and realistic statement of fact. If it offends you then maybe it is time for some self reflection. Just because you already hold a LHS somewhere does not guarantee you meet the necessary requirements of the new job you are applying for. If someone does not meet the required standard on a check is it 'disrespectful' to award a fail???? It would be if the same logic is applied-that is why we say our jobs are on the line every 6 months-nothing is guaranteed.

A320CaptDav
14th Dec 2015, 16:21
To a pilot that thinks his job is on the line every 6 months well your in the wrong profession, the truth is every flight puts our job on the line. A fellow pilot once told me hours of boredom and seconds of terror so you need to be at your best regardless.

Keep in mind I am not saying its wrong to put down a person thats not up to the mark for any position at the end of the day every pilot needs to be proficient.

But if you know of a single pilot that APPLIED FOR DEC and ACCEPTED to join EK as an FO I arrest my case,

until that I didn't waste my time doing a minor in Human Psychology for nothing. Which the EK recruitment seems to know a lot about ...or not. And for the record I'm still a humble FO....


Bon Vol

fliion
14th Dec 2015, 17:13
Dave

I know two.

One a long time WB freighter and military Capt, came as DEC got offered FO to get familiar with pax OPS, took the job, now a skipper. The other too specific to give details on and kept the dynamics of alternate offer pvt.

You've been arrested.

fatbus
14th Dec 2015, 22:46
There is also a couple of guys who failed the NAC portion of the course and were offered FO positions. But only a couple in either case.

A320CaptDav
15th Dec 2015, 00:11
fliion - you have my hands up

P.S - This company is having problems getting the 'right' F/Os I think they are gonna have a bigger problem getting the RIGHT DECs:rolleyes:

typhoonpilot
15th Dec 2015, 00:54
P.S - This company is having problems getting the 'right' F/Os I think they are gonna have a bigger problem getting the RIGHT DECs


Has a certain country in South America ran out of guys with parker pen captain time? :E


TP

A320CaptDav
15th Dec 2015, 02:05
TP i'm not sure you fill me in

Xiamen
15th Dec 2015, 07:15
There is also a couple of guys who failed the NAC portion of the course and were offered FO positions. But only a couple in either case.

What is NAC? I read somewhere here that only two DECs have made it through the door.
Truth or fiction?

lospilotos
15th Dec 2015, 07:41
NAC = Nomination As Commander. The potential DEC does the full course as any FO would, then does the NAC course.

And yes, only two DECs from the latest round of DECs on 330. No 777 DEC seen yet this time around which is as expected of course since it would take a few months to join from getting the offer.

The Guru
24th Jul 2016, 06:29
In the 2012 recruitment rush, the company hired about 87 DECs (50 B777 and 37 A330). The company argued that at the time it had an operational need, and no one would be disadvantaged.

During the last 12 months, they have hired 10 B777 DECs and 11 A330 DECs. Hundreds of FOs on the B777 have completed selection, have upgrade letters and are waiting courses have all been bypassed. Time to command at EK is now much longer than previously reported.

Mods - to keep it all together, could we pls merge this thread with http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/581804-where-b777-dec-s-coming.html

lospilotos
24th Jul 2016, 09:05
In the 2012 recruitment rush, the company hired about 87 DECs (50 B777 and 37 A330). The company argued that at the time it had an operational need, and no one would be disadvantaged.

During the last 12 months, they have hired 10 B777 DECs and 11 A330 DECs. Hundreds of FOs on the B777 have completed selection, have upgrade letters and are waiting courses have all been bypassed. Time to command at EK is now much longer than previously reported.

Mods - to keep it all together, could we pls merge this thread with http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/581804-where-b777-dec-s-coming.html

Whilst I appreciate that 21 DECs means 21 FOs not upgraded, when recent candidates have had their course date in MyMint, even before passing the interview, I don't really see how FOs are being bypassed. Recent NaC course participants have approx 4 years 9 months in the company. This number is sure to increase due to the hiring spree in 2011-12.

fatbus
24th Jul 2016, 11:31
I agree , please provide details as a the FO's being by passed. DECs are for a short fall in FO recruitment, some pilots can't seem to figure that out. An upgrade requires 2 news hires, without new hires no upgrades. Back fill with DECs

The Guru
24th Jul 2016, 12:23
“I don't really see how FOs are being bypassed. Recent NaC course participants have approx 4 years 9 months in the company.”

Well for starters, it is not 21 DECs = 21 FOs not upgraded, it is more like 100+. But we all know that the number and the consequence is fleet specific – the B777 DEC only delay the Boeing, the A330 DEC delay everyone on both Airbus fleets.

The recruitment of B777 DECs occurred when upgrade courses were effectively on hold. Almost nobody was upgraded for 9 months last year and we all sat around wondering when it would start again. People got so tired with the company and they started leaving, so the replacement training cost was horrendous. We burned out the trainers because for every TRE that resigned we needed to upgrade a replacement TRI, and for every TRI upgrade a line captain, and for every line captain train a DEC (company decision) or delay a FO, and for every FO that resigned beg the recruiters to find a replacement FO who didn’t mind filling the ranks for 4yrs and 9months before upgrade. So people were inadvertently delayed or bypassed when DEC were recruited, inducted and trained.

The Airbus guys had it even worse because they had the smaller fleet. The portal shows some of the early A330 DECs have already moved to the A380, the remaining A330 DECs have been assigned A380 courses by end of 2016. There is no short fall in FO recruitment on the A380 but the guys who transition do not have the OM-A command requirements - some of these guys have less than 300hrs and 6 months on the line at EK and they are becoming A380 skippers. @The Crew might argue that this is nothing more than A380 DEC recruitment by stealth, but clearly any FO who was in the company for the last 4yrs 9 months and who has greater than 300hrs of combined Airbus time has had the effect of being bypassed.

We all know that the two course argument is not valid, because DECs do a full type course and then they do a full NaC upgrade course. The DEC training cost and timeline causes delays to others in the pipeline.

AFAIK there is no bypass policy at EK or compensation paid to those effected.

lospilotos
24th Jul 2016, 12:33
Perhaps I'm missing something, but if 21 left seats are filled with 21 DEC bums, how does that get to be 100+ FO bums not moved to he left?

WB1900
28th Jul 2016, 09:14
Airbus fleet takes even better.
not long ago direct entry FO had been hired directly to the A380. some A330 FO especially with A340 had been delayed to transfer to the 380. most of the Direct joiners have not the required 2000 widebody upfront EK, which are required by the OMA.
Now today these FO reach the 2000hr mark on the 380 and starting the CCP courses, while all the A330/340 guys not having the 380hr are delayed again, because the company does not recognize the A330 time for the 380 upgrade.
witch means even an FO with 1500 - 2000 hr on A330 and sometimes more than 4 years in EK starts at 0 again and can fly with numbers having just 2,5 years in the company on the left. beside of the lost money for these guys.

TATA
26th Aug 2016, 17:14
I need info about the atmosphere for training for dec , as am planning
to joined as dec , is it really fair training , or trainers are failing them for silly reasons , anti them , please either help in this thread or pass , I had enough negative and bulls***t comment , I need serious help not personal ideas.

Odins Raven
26th Aug 2016, 18:12
I need info about the atmosphere for training for dec , as am planning
to joined as dec , is it really fair training , or trainers are failing them for silly reasons , anti them , please either help in this thread or pass , I had enough negative and bulls***t comment , I need serious help not personal ideas.

As long as you are what you say you are, there is no problem joining as a DEC. If you are not what you claim to be, you'll be found out before you even get to the sim on interview.

Apply and if all goes well and you get the job, you will have no problems with any TREs in EK if you have proved to be who you claimed to be.

Have I seriously helped you? I tried not to be negative or bulls**tty.

flyinthesky
26th Aug 2016, 18:20
So, Tata. Having looked at all your posts. It seems in 2010 you were just finishing your ATPL!! That puts you somewhere really close to the minimums for DEC. As someone who recruits both FO and DEC, you had better be VERY sharp. You need to be able to join this racket running. I don't think DEC are good or right and yes, I get to vet you in the selection so go figure! Your English skills are mediocre and attitude is poor. Good luck!!! I don't think you are going to cut the mustard!!!

TATA
26th Aug 2016, 19:03
As long as you are what you say you are, there is no problem joining as a DEC. If you are not what you claim to be, you'll be found out before you even get to the sim on interview.

Apply and if all goes well and you get the job, you will have no problems with any TREs in EK if you have proved to be who you claimed to be.

Have I seriously helped you? I tried not to be negative or bulls**tty.

Thanks , btw , am well experienced as claimed , the SO was for friend , don't bother about it ,this place is for discussing our concerns not to verify each other experience .

TATA
26th Aug 2016, 19:16
So, Tata. Having looked at all your posts. It seems in 2010 you were just finishing your ATPL!! That puts you somewhere really close to the minimums for DEC. As someone who recruits both FO and DEC, you had better be VERY sharp. You need to be able to join this racket running. I don't think DEC are good or right and yes, I get to vet you in the selection so go figure! Your English skills are mediocre and attitude is poor. Good luck!!! I don't think you are going to cut the mustard!!!

Ohh god , again , who are you to assess, you don't know me and I don't know you as well , stop acting like you are head of EK recruitment , plz sh***t up , sorry guys , discussion here mist be focusing on threads being discussed , not playing the role of assessor ,
Btw reviewing my previous threads does not reveals at all my experience , qualification and my objective .this is prune , go and find whats stand for .

Odins Raven
26th Aug 2016, 19:32
Ohh god , again , who are you to assess, you don't know me and I don't know you as well , stop acting like you are head of EK recruitment , plz sh***t up , sorry guys , discussion here mist be focusing on threads being discussed , not playing the role of assessor ,
Btw reviewing my previous threads does not reveals at all my experience , qualification and my objective .this is prune , go and find whats stand for .

Why don't you just apply and go see for yourself. As I say, those that pass the interview do not get targeted in training.

momo95
26th Aug 2016, 19:50
TATA sending abusive private messages combined with your attitude here ... you aren't fit to ride a bike in public. EK DEC? Right .... I gotta go, just been called to go space station ...

TATA
26th Aug 2016, 20:40
TATA sending abusive private messages combined with your attitude here ... you aren't fit to ride a bike in public. EK DEC? Right .... I gotta go, just been called to go space station ...

And you are not fit to be a human , combined with your mentaly retarded comments .make sure u don't crash your plane because of your poor Teamwork .

Kapitanleutnant
26th Aug 2016, 20:55
Tata....

I went thru the DEC program in 2008 and had about 10K hours total and about 3,200 hours as left seat airline.

I can say it was the hardest course I've ever been through. Also, I think I made it harder than I needed by having some preconceived ideas of how the instructors thought of DEC's from my country and if they were looking to somehow bust me.

I worked hard, got through all my sims and flights. I did get an extra training flight as a request by me and it helped clear up the final confusions I'd had.

Do not think for one minute that you're going to "teach these guys how to really do it". They are very seasoned veterans with tons of command time on the 777 as well as instructor experience either with EK or their previous airline. As in any airline, there are always a few that can make your training a bit more miserable than most others... but I didn't find that to be the case for me. I found the instructors to be fair but firm. They will expect a lot from you. You cannot show up at an Emirates training event expecting to be "taught". That''s not how it works there.

It will take a lot of discipline to study what is required. I recall my last training flight.,. My Final Line Check. It seemed to be going ok...with just a few wrong or partial answers to questions that were asked me but by and large I thought what I flew for the two day trip was "safe" above all. As we descended back into Dubai, the TRE said, "Well lets talk about your ride". The first thing he said to me was, "You passed... but just barely".

I remember thinking at that point, I honestly had no more effort to give as I was just "spent" with mental knowledge at that point. If I had not passed, I really don't know if I could have stayed there. I felt I had given it my all.

The TRE is actually a really good guy and I have always enjoyed chatting with him when I saw him while there!! Very smart individual!!

So.... Stay focused on your task at hand. You will not be spoon fed anything.

I never have regretted my time at EK. I was just severely disappointed at how EK management (one person in particular) essentially ruined what was the best Expat flying job in the world. Nowadays.... not so much.

Kap

4HolerPoler
26th Aug 2016, 21:18
TATA's general hot-headness + some abusive PM's to members have earned him a dip in the cooler.

Bring Back The Biff
27th Aug 2016, 04:47
Nice post Kap!

The Outlaw
27th Aug 2016, 06:17
4 Holer

Keep him there...or better yet bin the thread.

This guy is a stain on the business with a poor attitude to boot.

I hope our recruiters will be keeping an eye.

pfvspnf
27th Aug 2016, 08:12
TATA didn't you write this in 2010?

Was this for a "friend" too?

A320 hours building self sponsered
Dear sir
I am frm sudan.i have icao CPL/IR (south africa) multi with 313 hours.have frozon atpl.looking for place ti do me 500 hrs in 320 which will be paid by me.i have tried eagle jet jet training,...etc.my prob that i dont have the right to work in eourope so its prefered in any place that accepts my lic.
any detailed help will be very appreciated

buggerall
27th Aug 2016, 09:10
I need info about the atmosphere for training for dec , as am planning
to joined as dec , is it really fair training , or trainers are failing them for silly reasons , anti them , please either help in this thread or pass , I had enough negative and bulls***t comment , I need serious help not personal ideas.

I think you are overqualifed. You might as well resign whatever glamourous job you are doing now as for sure u will pass EK interview and DEC training.

Thanks for your PM waking me up to how superqualified you are: "Buggerall , I think you are idiot person , what is wrong with you , who care if I asked about SO in QR or Dec in Emirates, as you know me personally , mind your business idiot."

momo95
27th Aug 2016, 09:19
Well Buggerall you got a right telling off ... I was fortunate enough to get away with a short and sharp "Grow up Idiot".

777boyindubai
27th Aug 2016, 09:19
Come on guys. Don't be harsh. He is indeed over qualified. Abusive emails and a limited command of written English. He is perfect for a VP position in a management capacity in Head Office.

tcas123
27th Aug 2016, 09:59
Gentlemen , let's have respect to all pilots in this thread , this is not the right place or time to comment about others English level or experience , respect to all who responded positively to discussion , honestly I feel bad to those who driving this conversation into different path , let's remember it prune .

TATA might be disparate for information , but some trying to discarrage him , which I feel that they are gealous and don't want him to joine in EK as dec , trying their best to turn him down .

Remember what goes around comes around .

repapips
27th Aug 2016, 13:50
Gentlemen , let's have respect to all pilots in this thread , this is not the right place or time to comment about others English level or experience , respect to all who responded positively to discussion , honestly I feel bad to those who driving this conversation into different path , let's remember it prune .

TATA might be disparate for information , but some trying to discarrage him , which I feel that they are gealous and don't want him to joine in EK as dec , trying their best to turn him down .

Remember what goes around comes around .



why do i have the strange feeling....
that the "t" in tcas123 is for "tata"?

Big Enos Burdette
27th Aug 2016, 14:20
why do i have the strange feeling....
that the "t" in tcas123 is for "tata"?

I think you're right, as tcas123`s first post was today.

777boyindubai
27th Aug 2016, 14:22
For such an eminently over qualified sky God like Tata, EK DEC will be a walk in the park. To be honest, I am amazed he needs to ask people for help.I guess it is because he is so humble... Kap, an excellent post and thanks for sharing.

Global_Global
27th Aug 2016, 16:14
I am getting the popcorn out :)

buggerall
27th Aug 2016, 17:54
Gentlemen , let's have respect to all pilots in this thread , this is not the right place or time to comment about others English level or experience , respect to all who responded positively to discussion , honestly I feel bad to those who driving this conversation into different path , let's remember it prune .

TATA might be disparate for information , but some trying to discarrage him , which I feel that they are gealous and don't want him to joine in EK as dec , trying their best to turn him down .

Remember what goes around comes around .

You're right it prune. And we wouldn't want to discarrage him when he is disparate for info.

momo95
27th Aug 2016, 18:34
Hi TATA, how's the tcas? easy as 123?

SOPS
28th Aug 2016, 02:56
He's back.

LNAV VNAV -
28th Aug 2016, 05:33
http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/354625-saudia-post9487544.html#post9487544

See what you guys have done? You've discouraged him about joining Emirates and now he's asking about Saudia!

Flyingishere
28th Aug 2016, 05:52
https://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/64480511.jpg

pfvspnf
28th Aug 2016, 15:22
Feeding the troll...

777-200LR
28th Aug 2016, 17:26
Hi TATA, how's the tcas? easy as 123?

momo95, you my friend are king!!! :D

The Guru
29th Aug 2016, 11:47
TATA,

You took a perfectly good thread and destroyed it with your sheer incompetence and stupidity.:ugh::ugh::ugh: You will be pleased to know that Emirates does not discriminate, and no one at the company will tolerate behavior like yours on any flight deck. :=:=:=

It also looks like the 2016 DEC experiment is starting to unravel. Two of the DECs who were given a A330 course, upgrade course, and then A380 course haven't made it to the finish line......so FOs on both the A330 and A380 were disadvantaged at great expense to the company, and with little return on investment. I bet the bean counters are just loving it!! :sad::sad::sad:

ruserious
29th Aug 2016, 14:05
I bet the bean counters are just loving it!!

Nope, all management induced losses are not accounted, why would they?

PWFC
17th Sep 2016, 14:21
After that TATA beating I'm hesitant to ask but ...

I've read through the threads and can respectfully appreciate the issues with DEC and FO progression - so I apologize and don't wish to walk in thinking I'm HS .. ( certainly won't PM any of you )

But ... Is the DEC Program active at this time ... I'm in China on a WB command and looking at options ..

Maybe wrong thread but those In the know - I'd appreciate input.

What about QR versus EK ?

Thoughts or opinions welcome.

Cheers

PWFC

ExDubai
17th Sep 2016, 18:28
After that TATA beating I'm hesitant to ask but ...

I've read through the threads and can respectfully appreciate the issues with DEC and FO progression - so I apologize and don't wish to walk in thinking I'm HS .. ( certainly won't PM any of you )

But ... Is the DEC Program active at this time ... I'm in China on a WB command and looking at options ..

Maybe wrong thread but those In the know - I'd appreciate input.

What about QR versus EK ?

Thoughts or opinions welcome.

Cheers

PWFC
QR is currently the better gig in the ME. But change is the only constant, nobody knows what happens in 3 years. I'd try both and see what happens...