MD600 Type rating

[timprice]

Any one in EASA land that has an ATO on the MD600 and could complete a MD600 Type rating renewal could you please contact me.
I may have a requirement to fly one shortly and looking into the possiblity.
Thank you:cool:

[GoodGrief]

If you can't find a 600 a 500 will do.
Same rating, just needs Diff. for the 600.

https://easa.europa.eu/system/files/dfu/EASA%20T_R_List_Helicopter%2005082015.pdf

[timprice]

I fly 500 all the time but we have no one that is current on 600 in UK, so cannot get back in:ok:

[nigelh]

Can't you do this on your FAA ticket ?

[timprice]

I can, but cannot do a PC on anyone else with an EASA licence, not everyone wants to change to FAA ticket.
:cool:

[nigelh]

Why not ??!!! I don't really know why anyone bothers with the CAA PPL when the FAA lets you fly almost anything without a pointless rating AND will save you a load on check rides / medicals and even maintenance if you own your own machine !! The madness is that I would have to do around 8 hrs to get my 109 on my CAA licence and I'm flying it every week and have around 400 hrs on it !!
It would take around 20 hrs of training to get all my types back onto my licence ... No wonder people find easier routes !!

[claudia]

Nigel, Agree with you 100% but surely all that ends next April,
or have there been further extensions ? (for use of American ticket
in EASA land)

[timprice]

(FAA TICKET) As far as I know, the Europeans and US have not agreed anything yet so most probably, go on for another year or two:rolleyes:

[nigelh]

I don't see anything changing soon . There are so many N reg aircraft here and they are doing far more GA flying than G reg . Eventually the CAA and EASA will kill off all G reg GA in this country and the N reg will be all that's left !!!!

[claudia]

Tim. I think you are wrong. When in EASA land you are under European law
not American, infact if you fly commercially you are already illegal.
Thats what the caa web site says or am I missing something?

[claudia]

Nigel, It has already changed ! Not an issue of G reg and CAA any more
but an EU mandate already through Brussels. -- even private flying on FAA
Ticket after April 2015 requires a" validation " issued for one year only to
facilitate training to convert to EASA licence. Please tell me i am wrong.

[md 600 driver]

Does this mean to fly n reg in easa land you will need to have 2 licences
One easa and one Fâa

[nigelh]

Well I haven't re instated my licence and am flying almost every day !!! I am not aware it is not legal so will continue until someone tells me . Then I will no doubt be instructed by someone with less current hours on type than I have ....it's all nonsense !

[timprice]

IN–2015/028

The CAA has announced that it will be deferring for a year (until 8 April 2016) the UK implementation of European regulations requiring
pilots with a licence issued by a non-EASA country to gain a validation of their licence before they can fly private flights in an EU-registered
aircraft.
But as I said above no one knows when and if this will change as they can't agree in Europe what chance of EASA coming to an agreement with the FAA.:ugh:

[md 600 driver]

tim
will this affect FAA pilots flying FAA aircraft privately

steve

[GoodGrief]

Yep. You'll need an EASA license to fly your N-reg.

[claudia]

Tim. The regulation says " EASA aircraft" not EU registered aircraft.
An EASA aircraft being ANY aircraft regardless of it"s current registration whose type certificate is recognised by EASA.

[md 600 driver]

claudia
yes but will you need to upkeep 2 licences or will one easa one do for flights in easa land on n reg heli

[claudia]

MD600. As the regs presently stand you do need the two licences !
UK EASA licence to fly your N-reg in the UK but once you fly out of
the UK to say Fance or indeed any EASA country you are not legal
so you then need the FAA ticket.
Europe at it"s best.!! maybe we will get out in 2017.

[McDoo]

We have been discussing this in the corporate jet world...

If you fly an N registered aircraft, on a JAR licence you are allowed to do so only in the state of issue of that licence. ie if you have a UK CAA issued JAR licence you would indeed require an FAA ticket to fly to France.

Now then, let's say you now have your shiny new EASA licence. EASA member countries are technically a single state so in theory you can now fly an N registered aircraft in or between any EASA countries. No need for an FAA licence. (So long as the journey does not overfly a non EASA country)

I have asked several people about this (the CAA, several ATOs etc) and no one can give me a definitive answer in support of the above. The guy from the CAA just rubbed his chin thoughtfully and said "hmmm, possibly"!

I don't want to be the first person to have to explain this during a SAFA inspection though....

[GoodGrief]

EASA license only- You're allowed to fly N-Reg only in that country that issued the EASA license.

EASA and FAA- Fly N-Reg in all EASA countries.

[md 600 driver]

not too sure if you need a faa licence to fly n reg in forign countrys if you comply with that countrys rules

§91.703 Operations of civil aircraft of U.S. registry outside of the United States.
(a) Each person operating a civil aircraft of U.S. registry outside of the United States shall—

(1) When over the high seas, comply with annex 2 (Rules of the Air) to the Convention on International Civil Aviation and with §§91.117(c), 91.127, 91.129, and 91.131;

(2) When within a foreign country, comply with the regulations relating to the flight and maneuver of aircraft there in force;

(3) Except for §§91.117(a), 91.307(b), 91.309, 91.323, and 91.711, comply with this part so far as it is not inconsistent with applicable regulations of the foreign country where the aircraft is operated or annex 2 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation; and

[timprice]

At the moment some countries granting exemption to fly N reg in their airspace to EASA rated pilots ie UK EASA Licensed pilot to fly in French airspace.
So nothing is clear, at the moment still if you FAA reg helicopter and FAA ticket you can fly anywhere still, that’s my understanding, they are still sorting it out.
:D

[claudia]

MD600. You are quoting from the Chicago convention agreement.
Now Not relevent to aircraft based and or operated within the EU.
It was drawn up circa 1948 to allow free movement of aircraft in and
out and through subscribing countries -- Not live in them.

[claudia]

Tim. It IS clear and is already"sorted"out in EASA land. Legislation has been
consulted on and passed through Brussels with minimum objection during
2011/12 Legislation is in place in Europe. The CAA managed to negotiate a
derogation to postpone implementation for a period to allow pilots to get
their EASA licence. ---BUT ALL faa pilots i know have buried their heads
in the sand. Some FAA instructors i know are even encouraging students
to do FAA licences which in the UK will be useless to them. !!!

[md 600 driver]

MD600. You are quoting from the Chicago convention agreement.
Now Not relevent to aircraft based and or operated within the EU.
It was drawn up circa 1948 to allow free movement of aircraft in and
out and through subscribing countries -- Not live in them.

Claudia
I was quoting the FÂA FARS not Chicago convention

You said earlier that you needed a FÂA licence and easa licence to fly n reg in uk so what are the Fâa instructors doing wrong in getting pilots to do the FÂA. Licence. I am now totally confused

[claudia]

Yea I know.!!!!! FAR regulation being based on the Chicago convention,
what else (outside of US) EASA have moved the goal posts.
I did NOT say you need FAA and EASA to fly in UK.

Please read my posts more carefully and you won"t be confused.
I say AGAIN you need UK EASA and FAA to fly fly outside UK in N-reg.

[nigelh]

On the basis that I have flown a lot of hours over 30+ years and have never had to produce my licence , I will continue to fly my N reg on my FAA ticket until I am stopped !! EASA and the CAA are such a bunch of muppets they will never actually be able to find their own arse , let alone come up with a workable solution . They won't be happy until we are all grounded for good !!!

[claudia]

Nigel. Could not agree more but the poilceman here will be your insurance
company. --- licence not correct NO insurance. have already seen an
insurance company walk away over these licence issues.
(A personal friend who i advised but would not listen) but the bill at least
was only 30k which he had to pay himself.
Had it been 10 million for personal injuries-- well,houses for sale and
personl bankruptcy.

[nigelh]

Insurance is just a financial contract . If you found someone to insure you knowing your licence was technically incorrect ( but would have no safety impact at all or increase the chance of a claim ) then what would be the problem ?
It would be interesting if say 20/30or 40 pilots all offered to pay say 20% more and all move .....I will bet you could find cover !!!

[claudia]

Nigel You cannot be serious. Are you saying that any legit insurance
company will underwrite illegal activity? Not a hope.

[claudia]

Back to the original thread. I have been considering some MD600"s recently,
with view to purcase. But how am I going to have my EASA licence converted

[md 600 driver]

Yea I know.!!!!! FAR regulation being based on the Chicago convention,
what else (outside of US) EASA have moved the goal posts.
I did NOT say you need FAA and EASA to fly in UK.

Please read my posts more carefully and you won"t be confused.
I say AGAIN you need UK EASA and FAA to fly fly outside UK in N-reg.

claudia
i have read your post carefully
you said
MD600. As the regs presently stand you do need the two licences

what part of that have i got wrong


also according to easa you can only have one easa licence are you saying i can get another one from the CAA so i can fly n reg in the uk


what part of that have i got wrong

[claudia]

MD600 my posts on this topic have been very explanatory. upon re -reading
the point will become clear.--- no FAA tickets in EASA land

[nigelh]

Claudia ... Calm down !! I'm not advocating anything but just saying it is perfectly possible . I know of some helicopters that worked abroad ( illegally re reg and licences ) and they had insurance cover with the full knowledge of the insurance company . I don't think it would be illegal to offer cover based upon the insurance companies own view of the risk .
If I had an insurance company I wouldn't hesitate to cover a helicopter flying from A to B , even if part of the airspace meant a different licence was required !
( obviously so long as it wasn't an R22 ...!)

[nigelh]

How will corporate aircraft manage then ??

[md 600 driver]

claudia

i think your posts are very misleading and the advise you give is flawed
maybe best not say anymore

md

[claudia]

MD600 My posts are based on EASA law and you obviously can"t handle the reality
Best you bury your head in the sand like all the other FAA fraternity.
When it all becomes a reallity and you realise your ignorance i would appreciate an apology.
I am insulted and will say no more on the topic.-- to you
PS At no time did i give "advice" i stated facts as i believed them to be true in open
discussion,hoping to help others.

[claudia]

Nigel. Thanks, as usual your good fun and positive attitude i appreciate

[md 600 driver]

claudia
i have both EASA and FAA licences and i just asked a question i am not burying my head in the sand

i just wondered if i need to keep the 2 licences or could i just use my easa licence to fly a n reg helicopter in easa land ,please read my posts rather than have a go

my original question

Does this mean to fly n reg in easa land you will need to have 2 licences
One easa and one Fâa

you have given me various answers

MD600. As the regs presently stand you do need the two licences !
UK EASA licence to fly your N-reg in the UK but once you fly out of
the UK to say Fance or indeed any EASA country you are not legal
so you then need the FAA ticket.

no FAA tickets in EASA land

I did NOT say you need FAA and EASA to fly in UK.

why is the uk different to other easa countrys ? at the moment in my easa state of issue country i need to have both licences

i think you will find its me that should be getting an apology

[nigelh]

For what it's worth , in laymans terms ( which is what I am regarding regulations ! ) I believe the following is correct .
Fairly soon ( not sure of date ) you will not be allowed to fly G reg on FAA ticket here . There is no plan to stop flying N reg on FAA ticket here but there may be plan to not allow N reg to stay here . I do not believe it would be possible to stop the flying of N reg with FAA ticket ...... To do that you would have to stop all US planes from landing here ..... And that is not going to happen .
What I would like to know is why ?? Are FAA pilots crashing more than CAA ones ? Or is it that the FAA system is so superior to ours in Europe , so much simpler to stay current and legal and so much cheaper , that it has to be stopped before all ppl,s realise they are being ripped off and conned , priced out of being able to fly in the UK . Just look at the ratings that you poor EASA guys have to pay for !!! Even having training to go from 206 to 206L ..... Every different variant needing expensive and unnecessary training and a lot of you are being trained by instructors with less than 5% of the hours on type that you may have ...it's ridiculous!!!
Rant over ...

[Hughes500]

so Nigel under the FAA system you can fly any helicopter under 12700lbs ( ? not sure on exact weight ) with no extra training. So can I borrow your 109, never flown one but have 7000 hours plus on other types, I am sure i won't damage the machine

[nigelh]

In principle yes ! I wouldn't need you to do a type rating . I would check ride you myself and do emergencies . Probably like you , I have flown many different types of helicopters and have never found one yet that doesn't fly just like all the others . As an example I got in a Bolkow the other day . No instruction and from lift off flew it as smooth as I would with 100 hrs on it . Only training I would need would be specific vices like tucking into RH turns . On fenestron machines it would be some training on pedal input .
On 350 it would be servo transparency.
Luckily I haven't found any vices on the 109 , so yes I am certain you could fly it very safely with only an hour or two practice . ( but you would need to do a bit more before taking passengers )

[CRAZYBROADSWORD]

If your aircraft is N -reg no one can stop you flying it with an faa ticket except the faa ! The problem at the moment is that if you take you EASA ticket to the states they will issue you a permit to based on that license if you come the other way they won't hence the problem .

An faa license does not allow you to jump from a r22 into a 109 , you have to do training as required but there is no type rating and the training is with an instructor with no test at the end could be 1 hour could be 50 depends on the instructor who signs your logbook at the end !

Sorry about spelling grammar etc in a rush have to go flying !

[nigelh]

I have a stand alone license and actually yes you can just jump from an R22 to an A109 with no training . I would tend to agree that only the FAA can stop you flying an N reg aircraft . If you get issued an FAA licence on the back of your EASA one then things are different i agree re ratings . Now im off to fly the 109 i have no rating for ...what a joy !!!!