Tiffie splashes Raptor?

[dead_pan]

Twitter spotterati abuzz with rumours of a 3 sqn Typhoon (call-sign Zenith) splashing an F22 (call-sign Hawk1) during ACM over the North Sea today. Someone was on their game...

Not sure if its newsworthy but thought it worth a mention.

[Wingswinger]

Not worth a mention at all. In my Harrier GR 3 I "splashed" F 15s when they were new back in the 70s. It doesn't imply overall superiority of one type vs another; it's just an exercise. It's the real war which counts.

[Tashengurt]

If it's worth a reply it must be worth a mention.

[27mm]

This can't be right, I mean the Indian AF Sukhois trounced the Tiffs, so what chance v F22? :cool:

[a1bill]

I guess that means that Sukhois are the bestest of them all.

[Thelma Viaduct]

Raptor pilot might have been asleep, who knows what the variables were.

[a1bill]

It might have been his first trip to the UK and real ale. :yuk:

[oldmansquipper]

Meanwhile...back behind the curtain... Vlad and his mates tremble!:eek:

[glad rag]

I guess that means that Sukhois are the bestest of them all.

train hard-fight easy..

[Momoe]

Assuming this is correct - Kudos to the Tiffie pilot -Better have something else up your sleeve for next time though!

[charliegolf]

Wouldn't the Raptorites have us believe that the Tiffie would be in BVR Deadsville before the fight got going? Isn't '40 second Boyd' dogfighting all over and done with now?

CG

[melmothtw]

There's nothing new in this. From 2012 - The Aviationist » F-22 Raptor kill markings shown off by German Eurofighter Typhoons. "The F-22 is not invincible" saga continues. (http://theaviationist.com/2012/07/23/f-22-raptor-kill-markings/)

http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag380/garethjennings1/df_3029_neuburg_18-07-12_zpsmbgqs7oj.jpg (http://s1373.photobucket.com/user/garethjennings1/media/df_3029_neuburg_18-07-12_zpsmbgqs7oj.jpg.html)

And the Rafale has been there too -

http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag380/garethjennings1/download_zpsztnjasws.jpg (http://s1373.photobucket.com/user/garethjennings1/media/download_zpsztnjasws.jpg.html)


Of course, as has been stated, it all depends on the rules that were employed at the time of the exercise.

[JointShiteFighter]

To be honest, is any aeroplane invincible? The aircraft can only do so much. If an inexperienced pilot recently out of training is up against a 3,000+ hour pilot, then the aircraft he is flying isn't going to make much of a difference. He is probably going to lose that fight....

[Davef68]

I think I've seen pics of most NATO fighters in most other NATO fighter's sights over the years.

[JointShiteFighter]

I think most of the "who would win?" debates are bolleaux anyway, as it also would depend on the quality of the training the pilot has received, and their currency in maintaining their skills gained from that training.

The Sea Harrier is the perfect example. When looking at it, "air superiority fighter" isn't the first thing that comes to mind. Although it proved that it was capable of doing that job, in the Falklands, probably because those who were in the seats are the among the best of the very best pilots in the world so were able to utilise the aircraft's capabilities.

The F-15 has the best air-to-air kill record of any combat aircraft ever made, but the pilots that made that possible are also part of that elite group. Perhaps it would have been a lot different if they were, for example... Iraqi pilots, and the Americans had the MiGs in Desert Storm?

If the pilot isn't up to it then surely it's only going to end one way?

[Just This Once...]

Rather pathetic to have simulated kill markings in the side of a fighter.

[27mm]

Too right sport. On our 92 F4, XV422, we had a Jag and a Jindy on the intake ramp.

[The Sultan]

Joint,

Nothing means anything in preseason. There is a lot of "let them win to make them feel better". In real combat the F-15 is undefeated.

The Sultan

[PAX_Britannica]

To be honest, is any aeroplane invincible? The aircraft can only do so much. If an inexperienced pilot recently out of training is up against a 3,000+ hour pilot, then the aircraft he is flying isn't going to make much of a difference. He is probably going to lose that fight....

While that seems to be conventional wisdom, and has been for a long time, I wonder if the performance of Iranian F-14A's in the Iran-Iraq war is a counterexample ?

Persian Cats- page 1 | Military Aviation | Air & Space Magazine (http://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/persian-cats-9242012/?no-ist=&page=1)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_F-14_Tomcat#Iran

[DirtyProp]

To be honest, is any aeroplane invincible? The aircraft can only do so much. If an inexperienced pilot recently out of training is up against a 3,000+ hour pilot, then the aircraft he is flying isn't going to make much of a difference. He is probably going to lose that fight....
Chuck Yeager proved this point when he tested the Mig (15?? not sure) vs the Sabre.
He said that the pilot will always make the difference.
Granted that was quite some time ago, so things may have changed now.

[bigsmelly]

Can anyone tell me why air forces put kill markings on jets, when it's the result of a training sorties where no aircraft was actually destroyed?

It seems a bit silly to me, and devalues the whle idea.

[Vzlet]

These occasional buzzes of excitement when someone earns and publicizes an F-22 "kill" are perhaps an encouraging indication of how capable an aircraft it really is. An opposite outcome seems to be neither newsworthy nor "stencil-worthy".

[melmothtw]

Agreed Vzlet, and the fact that the USAF has kept a dignified silence about this and all other claims for F-22 'shoot-downs' tells you all you need to know about their thoughts on the subject.

[KenV]

It would seem that the F-15's experience might be a good guide here.

How many "kill" claims have been posted against the F-15 in simulated combat? Dozens? Hundreds?

What is the kill ratio of the F-15 in actual combat?

[Rhino power]

It would seem that the F-15's experience might be a good guide here.

How many "kill" claims have been posted against the F-15 in simulated combat? Dozens? Hundreds?

What is the kill ratio of the F-15 in actual combat?

The difference is that the 'kills' during simulated combat will not only have been under very different conditions, but also (I assume...) during simulated combat with allies, who may or may not, depending on your viewpoint, be better trained than those pilots against whom the F-15 achieved 'real' combat kills...

-RP

[The Helpful Stacker]

.....the fact that the USAF has kept a dignified silence about this and all other claims for F-22 'shoot-downs' tells you all you need to know about their thoughts on the subject.

The RAF has also kept a dignified silence, this rumour is based on nothing more than spotters sounding off on Twitter.

[F-16GUY]

Here is a video of a Tiffie at the receiving end of a 35 year old Danish F-16.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAedQ7FMiKo

Obviously aircraft performance is important, but more important is the pilots ability to know the strengths and weaknesses of both his and the opponents aircraft. What you want is to fight any opponent in the area where your jet has the biggest advantage over his.

Fighting a Tiffie in the Viper (Guns only), I would go for at two circle fight (rate). If I was in the Tiffie flying against a Viper I would go for a single circle fight and exploit the vertical.

By the way, the arrival of HOB missiles and Helmet mounted Sights have redefined BFM. Merging with any other fighter in an AIM-9X/HMCS equipped Viper I would sell everything, use the vertical and be the first to get a high off-bore shot. If it is a miss I am toast....

[JointShiteFighter]

.....the fact that the USAF has kept a dignified silence about this and all other claims for F-22 'shoot-downs' tells you all you need to know about their thoughts on the subject.

It doesn't tell me anything other than the USAF, like the RAF, will not go in to any details about Exercise results as they are classified. Rightly so!

Whether the F-22 is a turkey or the best thing to leave the ground, the majority of people will never know until it's successfully used in anger in the air defence role. It might look nice when it's thrown about at air shows, but that doesn't tell anybody anything about its true capabilities, or else the U.S. Government wouldn't allow it to be displayed.

[Mogwi]

In the early 80s I got a SHAR guns solution on a USN F18 out of Cecil but would have swapped seats with him any day!

I used to tell my boys that the best pilot in the world could be killed by the JP who crept up behind them unseen. And yes, I did get 4 real ones!

Swing the lamp!