Clinical Syrian RPAS Strikes.

[edwardspannerhands]

Well done 13 / 39 Sqns'. That is all.

[tezzer]

I can only agree, nice work.

[BEagle]

Indeed! But regrettably, I note that Hattie Harperson has called for 'independent scrutiny' of the successful drone attack.

[Romeo Oscar Golf]

Well done lads......you have my support and I suspect (hope) a majority of people in this land.

[Out Of Trim]

Good Score "DELTA HOTEL". :ok:

[smujsmith]

Good news indeed. The sooner a few more receive the same treatment the better. Can someone just explain though how it's OK to "terminate" the scum in Syria, whilst allowing them back in to Britain after enjoying their terror holidays ?

Smudge

[sharpend]

As an ex mud-mover myself, I feel that this sort of tactical strike is the way of the future. It has very many advantages for politicians and appears to be the beginning of the end for manned offensive aircraft. Whatever, I had fun whilst it lasted :)

[Basil]

Hattie Harperson has called for 'independent scrutiny' of the successful drone attack.
People like her are in an ignorant minority and may be permitted to go off and do what they do best.
(That's my polite version.)

[CoffmanStarter]

Excellent result !

[KPax]

Be interesting to see what Comrade Corbyn has to say on the subject.

[Training Risky]

Fully agree that this is a good kill.

Although the ROE pedant in me is rushing to correct Dave on his use of the term self-defence:

David Cameron: Britain mounted fatal air strike in Syria - live - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11848600/David-Cameron-Britain-mounted-fatal-air-strike-in-Syria-live.html)

Unless there was an imminent threat to UK life and there was no way to save a life other than to take a life... (thanks for that Prince Harry!)...then we are looking at a Herrick-type targeting directive that places scum like this on a list of target sets that are fair game if discovered in the act of manoeuvring into, or 'merely' planning attacks that threaten UK personnel or our allies.

Lets start adding to the list!

Cleared in hot!

[MOSTAFA]

Personally I couldn't give a toss how many of these shi*s we put into the ground in fact, the more the merrier, but - how many British soldiers have had to spend months; years; dragged through the courts and some subsequently who were incarcerated for fighting the very same terrorism at home, with SFA support from our political leaders.

Camoron has opened yet another can of worms.

[Arcanum]

The general reaction in the UK is in contrast to the angst in the US when the Americans whacked one of their own citizens in a drone strike back in 2011.

I reckon we sent out a good message - if you're one of our citizens looking to harm us, we'll really go out of our way to stop you!

[Lima Juliet]

RIFLE...SPLASH! :E

By the way, Sharpend, a force-mix of manned/unmanned is the way to go - each bring distinct advantages to Air Power. That's the current thinking for the foreseeable future. :ok:

LJ

[Just This Once...]

Good effects.

[Lima Juliet]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mymTX-psg5c

[ORAC]

Although the ROE pedant in me is rushing to correct Dave on his use of the term self-defence:

The Legal Basis for Preemption - Council on Foreign Relations (http://www.cfr.org/international-law/legal-basis-preemption/p5250)

[Training Risky]

But from a UK targeting point of view, you have to be practically taking fire from the enemy before it is self-defence, as opposed to the Septics' approach of "enemy over the hill with weapons - ENGAGE!"

I haven't got a problem with it - it's the hybrid war we have been fighting for 14 years. But this seems very likely to be intelligence-led targeting which we know and love!

Just don't shoot a combatant when they are injured though, as they will turn on you like a rabid dog and throw the RPAS operator in jail quicker than you can say Sgt Blackman.:yuk:

[chiglet]

If you want to play with the big bad boys, you night get hurt.

[MOSTAFA]

play with big bad boys!

What a crock o shi*

[Selatar]

A successful strike indeed and one that mirrors hundreds of others in terms of CDE, PID, POL etc. A stretch on the UK Self Defence term the military are used to, but I guess the AG knows his stuff.

But be under no illusion folks this is a huge departure from what has occurred since Reapers first took to the Afghan skies in the winter of 2007. Whatever your views, this is new territory.

[thing]

I was annoyed by the chap on the telly, I think he was a relative of the dead guy, talking about 'The British have done this that and the other and more questions need to be asked.' Are you not British yourself then?

As for the strike, win win for everyone. We get rid of a scumbag and he's gone to his twenty virgins to rape or whatever they do in hell.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

It does seem a big step and it does seem the general publics view is 'meh'.

Which is handy. More please.


WWW

[atakacs]

Are those birds operated from the UK ? By RAF personnel?

[Out Of Trim]

Yes, that is correct! ;)

[Two's in]

In an open democracy there should be no problem in asking which particular due process is being followed in the eradication of terrorist targets. In cases such as these, where obvious bad players are exporting terrorism on a global scale the rationale is easy to explain and easy to follow. The Attorney General should have no problem in explaining that solid intelligence (no need to discuss the nature of that intelligence of course) led to the identification, location and likely intent of the subsequent target; and as a consequence, the appropriate extreme violence was dispensed forthwith and the threat was neutralized. Because, of course, the Government of the day has never modified or misused intelligence reports has it? No PM has ever gone to war on manufactured intelligence for their own ends have they?

That’s the trouble with the Nigel Farage or Daily Mail approach to foreign policy and fighting terrorists. When it’s all obvious and nicely black and white such as in this case, of course it’s the right way to deal with terrorism. But when the targets become less obvious, and the threat to the UK more nuanced, do we still sing rah-rah team and not care which due process is being followed, or do we care when that process is not even remotely transparent. Surely we can trust the PM and AG (not even the Government in this case) to act in our best interests without question? That doesn’t mean the public need to know anything about intelligence sources or target identification, but surely the key protagonists in the due process can enlighten the elected government of the day with the broad outline of how the State decides capital punishment is wholly justified. What if we find the Real IRA are planning a spectacular in Northern Ireland? Is there any difference in eliminating terrorists threats with drones in ‘Derry or Damascus? Rubbish you cry, but how do you know if there is no due process to review, classified or otherwise?

Do you not wonder for a minute why details of military engagements such as these are released lock, stock and literally smoking barrel to the great unwashed, to be devoured by the tabloid press, despite an obviously high level of content about classified modes and methods? Surely only a cynic would consider that planting a story where a pair of really bad actors get taken out without a hitch furthers the case for further Prime Ministerial level execution without the burdensome nonsense of judicial or even parliamentary review. This pair absolutely got their just deserts in this case, but be careful wishing away long established legal process in the heat of the moment. As for the “…angst in the US when the Americans whacked one of their own citizens…”; this was not driven so much by the left-wing fluffies, as much as the dawning realization that every time Chuck or Randy working as a Government acronym contractor whacked yet another Pakistani wedding party (oops, sorry about killing the wrong brown people) they created more terrorist converts than any Taliban recruiting drive ever did.

Just because this action appears at first blush to be wholly justified, please try to be at least a little curious about the due process surrounding how an elected Government decides when and where to execute people. You never know, one day that SNP affinity might come back to bite you in the arse.

[Training Risky]

please try to be at least a little curious about the due process surrounding how an elected Government decides when and where to execute people

The process was:

Troops in contact (Helmand?) = No, so no self-defence.
Hostile act? = don't know yet, intelligence-led.
Hostile intent? = You betcha!
Under certain cirumstances, proscribed enemy target sets can be engaged when not involved with any of the above, but it depends on the theatre-specific rules...

[ORAC]

Remarkable, even the Grauniad. In fact the only media screeching about a need for an inquiry and sorrowfully seek friends and family of the deceased to complain about unnecessary violence are the Baghdad Broadcasting Corporation - no surprise there.........


Was it lawful for UK forces to kill British Isis fighters in Syria? | Joshua Rozenberg | Comment is free | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/07/lawful-uk-forces-british-isis-fighters-syria)

.......On the facts as we know them, this unprecedented attack on British would-be terrorists in Syria appears to be within the law. The attorney general, we are told, “was clear there would be a clear legal basis for action in international law”. We are unlikely to see the full text of his advice because some of the details are likely to be highly classified. But we are entitled to expect the government to publish a summary, not least because the convention that legal advice on such matters is confidential seems no longer to be observed by ministers themselves.

So the only remaining question is whether the drone strike on Khan and those with him was morally justified. On this, I am with Cameron. As he said, his first duty is to keep the British people safe. “There was a terrorist directing murder on our streets and no other means to stop him,” the prime minister said.

And I don’t suppose that Khan himself would have disagreed. If he was waging war on British troops and civilians, he can hardly complain the UK’s armed forces were one step ahead of him.

[MOSTAFA]

Two's in - IMO you are spot on and I congratulate you on a damn good post.

Some readers on here really have no idea how evil the IRA are. (Our wonderful governments might have put them back into a state hibernation for a little while by appeasing cold blooded murderers). FFS our 'democracy' let them all out, gave them pardons and vast sums in compensation. Some reading here still have this misplaced romantic notion of 'freedom fighting' bollox against the oppressive British.

As for theatre specific rules - even more bollox - terroriism is terrorism and the only way to fight terrorism - is with terrorism. I certainly have no axe to grind with what was done - not one single bit. I do have an axe to grind about how many were and still are, dragged through the law courts for far less acts of, so called democracy.

[Navaleye]

We should all rejoice at the demise of these British passport holding Muslim traitors. well done the RAF.

We should hunt and kill them where ever we find them. And their scumbag lawyers if possible.

BZ PM

[Training Risky]

Def Sec on Today prog came across quite well just now, considering the bias ingrained in the Bolshevik Broadcasting Corporation. Michael Fallon jumped at the chance to say he would do it again if needs be.

Bravo!

[Wingswinger]

From an old mud-mover: Well done all involved. More of the same please.

[Trossie]

... I note that Hattie Harperson has called for 'independent scrutiny' of the successful drone attack.To assist this, should she not go and do a personal fact finding inspection of the attack site?

[Cows getting bigger]

Why are we ever bothering to give this event media time?

We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.

[Martin the Martian]

Nice work.

More of the same please.

[atakacs]

Sorry to reiterate the question but are those birds operated by RAF personnel? Out of the U.K.? No detailed operational details needed but if this is via civil contractors out of Nevada it opens another can of worms...

[ORAC]

You asked in post #24 and were answered in post #25. what more do you want, names and addresses? :hmm::hmm:

[mmitch]

So Dave should have asked Parliament first? But they were on one of their (long) holidays weren't they? It would take a week to recall them.
mmitch.

[TEEEJ]

Atakacs,
See following media reports with videos. The media were granted access a few years ago.

Reaper Attack HQ: Rare Access To Top Secret Site (http://news.sky.com/story/1183901/reaper-attack-hq-rare-access-to-top-secret-site)

RAF opens drone control centre in bid to 'demystify' controversial weapons | World news | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/18/raf-opens-drone-control-centre-lincolnshire)

Inside Britain's military drone base at RAF Waddington - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25425711)

[CoffmanStarter]

More of the same ...

After the Prime Minister announced that an RAF drone strike inside Syria killed two British men fighting for Islamic State, footage from another RAF Reaper attacking an ISIS boat loaded with hundreds of mortar and rocket rounds has been released.

Forces TV

WATCH: RAF Blow Up ISIS Boat | Forces TV (http://forces.tv/15713509)

[Lonewolf_50]

Glad to see a few more deserving individuals receive some kind attention and a special delivery. :ok:

[langleybaston]

Breakfast today: good news of the pre-emptive killing [not "assassination" which is usually reserved for important people].

LB to Mrs LB "I bet by lunchtime there will be predictable howls from the lefties".

Ticks box.

Please can we have one every breakfast, Prime Minister?

Well done, lads and lasses.

[Basil]

CoffmanStarter, That was quick!
Helmsman: "WTF did all those virgins suddenly appear from?"

[SilsoeSid]

On one hand we have the Prime Minister David Cameron saying;

"I am not prepared to stand here in the aftermath of a terrorist attack on our streets and have to explain to the House why I did not take the chance to prevent it when I could have done,” "

While on the other, we have the voice of the people, celebrity Jamelia on Loose Women (https://www.itv.com/itvplayer/loose-women/08-09-2015) saying;

"Killing anyone does not solve a problem"


I think I prefer one persons outlook on the future, than the others persons knowledge of the past.

[Pontius Navigator]

A thought.

Some UK Laws are universal, to wit tax and sex.

In UK guns, such as AK 47 or RPGs are banned to British citizens. Make that law universal.

Equip drones with loud speakers and an Anne Shelton song - lay down your arms and surrender to me. The alternative to be Hellfire or Brimstone.

[mr fish]

although some footage has been released to the media, it has not been verified as the actual strike in question.


would it be possible for the MOD to release the REAL thing??




I'd like to crack open a beer.....and have a good f**king laugh.




p.s, JIHADI JOHN...."keep watching the skies".

[smujsmith]

I would like to think that every time one of these slimeballs uses his iPhone, he risks receiving a Hellfire in response. Back to the original post, great result, a few more such achievements would not be to the detriment of the planets O2 depletion.

Smudge

[Dan Gerous]

I've never understood why governments do this stuff then admit it. Just do it and keep quiet. What are they after, a shoulder to cry on because they had to do something nasty?

[Always a Sapper]

I think the only questions to be had are,

To the PM, why did it take so long for the Govt to get round to allowing HMF to 'deal' with the terrorists in a fitting manner.

And to Harriet H, taking your recent remarks in PMQ (when the 'hit' was announced) please explain what YOU would do if in power (lol), why and do you actually want to defend the country or just watch it all go down the pan?


Well done all and sundry involved, next one please.

FWIW, I do like the old 'think of doing something nasty to the UK' and in the course of time someone will quietly rock up and your existance on this planet will abruptly end. 'They' then quietly melt back into the background... Problem solved.

Of course there is the alternative of a few gunboats coming over the horizon one damp and cold morning, followed by 30 mins of 'fire for effect' onto the errant individual/house/village etc and retire for tea 'n' biccies empire stylee...

[ExAscoteer]

The only problem I have with using Reapers is that we don't get the chance to wrap the buggers in pig skin and bury them upside down, arse pointing at Mecca.

[Romeo Oscar Golf]

why governments do this stuff then admit it. Just do it and keep quiet.
Couldn't agree more Dan.
Same should have applied in N Ireland.

[Wander00]

And a note saying "No virgins for you then"

[Clockwork Mouse]

The Guardian leader, of course, takes the view that the country should not defend itself unless every action is publicly debated, scrutinised and democratically approved by honest working people. it quotes:

Yasmine Ahmed, director of Rights Watch (UK), said: “There is insufficient information in the public domain … to know whether the drone strikes that killed three individuals in Syria, including two British citizens, were done lawfully.

“These strikes set a dangerous precedent for UK government activity. The UK government can now kill at will with no oversight. If the only oversight for these actions is internal confidential government legal advice, which the British public never gets to see, that is no oversight at all. To take military action in the name of the British public and not fully inform the public about the legal basis for doing so is undemocratic.”

Ahmed said Rights Watch (UK) would support the families of the dead men if they wanted to bring legal actions for compensation against the government.

[Whenurhappy]

The problem with any detailed investigation by Parlaiment or the courts is that it will be very difficult to have a meaningful discussion without revealing our intelligence capabilities and that our our friends. I think the Prime Minister was right to announce these deaths and I hope it will have a corrosive, cancerous effect on ISIL. As was pointed out elsewhere, gone are the days of large ISIL convoys of Utes with black flags flying. That's just too vulnerable.

[West Coast]

Guess the UK has the death penalty again.

[Wensleydale]

Why is it that those who forever spout on about their human rights do not care a jot for the rights of everyone else?

[tezzer]

"Who said whoosh ?"

Crump.

Job done !

[Danny42C]

Re: Bleeding Hearts for an ex-ISIL (Good Riddance, say I !)

Seems that today's RAF is not immune from this egregious notion. My eye was caught by this link (copied from another of my Posts, about January on another Thread: it was an extract from the D.Tel. 9.1.15). "Combat Report" (Bold Text mine):

"The pair have said that one of their proudest moments to date involved helping to foil a rocket" (RPG ?) "attack on their base at Kandahar airfield in 2010. There was a high threat and the base was expecting an imminent attack after some men were spotted in a nearby ditch, setting up to fire a rocket at their accommodation block. They took the aircraft out to 15 miles from their position in the ditch and came down to low level, approaching at more than 500mph and as close to the Operational Low Flying minimum of 100 feet as possible, passing directly over them before heading into a steep climb. The rocket crew immediately scarpered in a truck and the pair felt they had made a tangible difference to protect their colleagues.
The intention is to always use the minimum force required to provide the effect needed by the guys on the ground".

Am I missing something here ? This was in 2010, and there was a war going on in Afghanistan (as we have 453 good reasons to remember). This is the enemy, and he is making ready to kill you (or some of your comrades) if he can. You are airborne in one of the RAF's most powerful weapons. You have a 27mm cannon.

You buzz him off (as I used to shift a flock of goats off my strip before landing). So that he can come back later and try again ? (Better luck next time ?)

Danny42C. :confused:

[MOSTAFA]

Who on here has a bleeding heart for ISIS - I suspect, nobody.

As for the the 453 good reasons not to forget - I'd like to think we will never forget.

But I am equally concerned most are forgetting the 763 that died fighting the same scum in Northern Ireland and when you add up the suicides/accidents the figure is in excess of 1100.

Nobody on here has a bleeding heart for terrorism - I'm just disgusted governments locked up British soldiers for what Mr Camoron now calls Article 51 justification.

[Navaleye]

Clearly we are all rejoicing in the extermination of these sub human scum. But two is a small but important first. I would like to see death on an industrial scale delivered to them, so we can all have a good laugh.

[ShotOne]

While we're mostly agreed that these two met their end most deservedly, before we let our collective gushing go too far, perhaps time to at least reflect how this changes the terms of reference for the future. Does this mean RAF personnel might be required to kill a British Citizen in, say, Belgium if they were plotting an attack? How about Bradford? Equally, how will we feel when another nation claims the same rights -if, for instance Turkey were to strike a PKK member in the UK?

[Clockwork Mouse]

The last timeI looked there was law and order in Belgium, Turkey and, I presume, Bradford so there is no need to take military action against wrongdoers.

[Hempy]

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k144/h3mpy/12B78564-4464-43AE-8C93-E6775928E08E.png_zpsrrywdrjr.jpeg

[ShotOne]

Law and order CM? Thousands of Turkish people have been killed in attacks by Kurdish terrorists/freedom fighters. I suspect their government would furiously disagree with you glibly telling them there was "no need" for action. But you ducked my main point which is that RPAS are becoming widely available. Whatever legal rights we establish for using them will soon be adopted by other states. Let's make sure we're happy with the result.

[Lonewolf_50]

"The pair have said that one of their proudest moments to date involved helping to foil a rocket" (RPG ?) "attack on their base at Kandahar airfield in 2010. There was a high threat and the base was expecting an imminent attack after some men were spotted in a nearby ditch, setting up to fire a rocket at their accommodation block. They took the aircraft out to 15 miles from their position in the ditch and came down to low level, approaching at more than 500mph and as close to the Operational Low Flying minimum of 100 feet as possible, passing directly over them before heading into a steep climb. The rocket crew immediately scarpered in a truck and the pair felt they had made a tangible difference to protect their colleagues. The intention is to always use the minimum force required to provide the effect needed by the guys on the ground".

Am I missing something here ? This was in 2010, and there was a war going on in Afghanistan (as we have 453 good reasons to remember). This is the enemy, and he is making ready to kill you (or some of your comrades) if he can. You are airborne in one of the RAF's most powerful weapons. You have a 27mm cannon.

You buzz him off (as I used to shift a flock of goats off my strip before landing). So that he can come back later and try again ? (Better luck next time ?)

Danny42C. :confused:
Danny, the RoE in that operation were bizarre when I was involved a few years before what you report. That may have been the limit of what they were permitted, but pointing that out in public isn't good PR, for one, and might give away even more of the store for another. As Dick Deadeye said in HMS Pinafore "Aye, it's a queer world." For sure.

@shotone: the governments in question have working agreements with each other not to do such things, that's why it isn't done. In Syria these days, it's Indian Country. Thus the door opens for options one would not exercise if there was one government to work with ... funny old thing, that's how is WAS in Syria before the revolt began.

[smujsmith]

I have to reiterate Danny42c's post, if we were doing "fly by" tactics in the hot war in Afghanistan only five years ago, what has changed in the "rules of engement" that allows the targeting of the traitorous scum who leave Britain to fight for IS ? I suspect like most posters on this thread, my only disappointment is that it was only two. As for why did we not do the same with the IRA, I reckon the fact that it was an "in country" rebellion made us act differently, which begs the question, what is the correct response to an IS slaughter crusade, emanating from Rotherham, Blackburn, Aylesbury etc ? Do we have a government with the gonads to deal with it ?

Smudge

[Wensleydale]

The BBC local TV to Waddington made quite an "anti" news report yesterday - the thrust of their report was interviewing the locals to see how concerned they were about events, followed by a very negative interview with the local MP. To be fair on them, they reported tonight that they had received a huge response to their news item and over 95% of the e-mails supported the action in Syria.

[just another jocky]

Guys, regarding Afghan RoE & Shows of Force (read beat up) surely, when the bad guys are running around housing estates filled with children it is better to scare them off than blow them up and possibly kill someone's kid hiding in the bushes nearby. Just a thought. Hearts & minds and all that.

It was, and remains, a very valid response.

Not every time though.

Well done 13 Sqn (my old Sqn...when we flew a proper ac). :E

[Lonewolf_50]

Guys, regarding Afghan RoE & Shows of Force (read beat up) surely, when the bad guys are running around housing estates filled with children it is better to scare them off than blow them up and possibly kill someone's kid hiding in the bushes nearby. Just a thought. Hearts & minds and all that. Yes indeed, very situationally dependent.

[Pontius Navigator]

Miss PN, for her university dissertation was permitted to read some misreps from Iraq. ROE did not permit weapons release unless in self-defence and the IntO was all for having the pilot courts martialled for breaking the rules.

The pilot had been tasked to recce a village that an Army column was soon to enter. He was suspicious and flew low over the village for 2 1/2 hours. Eventually they shot at him whereupon he bombed them thus alerting the Army column that he had been unable to contact.

Btw, that was in the 1920s.

[Father Jack Hackett]

A number of posters on here are drawing dodgy comparisons between ISIL/ISIS/IS (or whatever the 7th century tribute act is called this week) and the IRA. As someone who grew up in NI and served there as well as Iraq and Afghanistan I just don't think that is valid.

Evil though many of the provos were, they were never anywhere near the same league as these animals. The IRA were guilty of dreadful atrocities. However the "dirty war" was a fact. There were equally evil atrocities committed by the loyalist paramilitaries (Shankill Butchers anyone?), not to mention illegal killings committed, certainly in the early days, by shady army units and the 'B Specials'.

Nonetheless it is utterly gauling to see players back on the streets who should have remained locked up for decades, particularly for friends/family/colleagues of their victims. It was a high price to pay, but a price that bought a greater good and peace for a community that absolutely needed it. I just hope that the NI politicians can continue to hold it together (rightly recently branded by Col Tim Collins as "the worst politicians on the planet")....

The point is that awful as the NI paramilitaries were/are, there was always enough reason in them to hold out hope of a settlement, but only after they had been fought to a stalemate. I think IS are singular in their utter lack of potential for redemption or reason. I have just watched a harrowing report on the BBC about the final days of poor Kayla Mueller, the American hostage repeatedly raped then murdered by the big man himself, Abu Baker Al Baghdadi. The self-proclaimed caliph is clearly leading from the front, inciting his troops to rape and slaughter their way to the caliphate. There will never be negotiation or rapprochement with these scumbags. We simply need to kill them in large numbers. Until we truly grasp that nettle, the situation will just get worse and worse.

One day we may be able to reach a distasteful but workable settlement with evil f***ers like the Taliban or Assad (albeit giving undesirable advantage to the ISI and Putin respectively), but there is only one answer to IS. let's get on with it and limit the final toll on the poor Syrians and Iraqi's, limit the terrorist threat in our own countries and stabilise the refugee crisis that will affect Europe and the Levant for years to come.

[smujsmith]

Father Jack,

Spot on mate, the last paragraph says it all IMHOP.

Smudge

[Wingswinger]

How much longer before our politicians, Euro-pollies, US-pollies, Russo-Pollies, Sino-Pollies, and any other Pollies who wish to join get together and set our collective military forces on these bastards and just wipe them off the face of the earth?

And then deal with the root of the problem - Saudi Arabia.

[atakacs]

To be honest I really don't see the problem.

It is obviously the prerogative of the government to eradicate any citizen at will without due process. Anyone thinking otherwise is should actually see the full might of the public force.

I'm looking forward to the dismantlement of the judicial system and the huge savings to the UK budget.

[SilsoeSid]

Pastor Martin Niemöller once said;

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."


However I think the one most fitting saying in this instance is;

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.'

[Royalistflyer]

In my view, we should not be attacking them in their countries. W should let them have whatever form of government they want. We should receive refugees only from the Christian minority. We should leave the whole middle east to its own devices. Our effort should be to absolutely ensure (insofar as one can) that they cannot ever interfere in our country. We can and should use lethal force against any who, in this country attempt to use violence. We can and should in this country close all of their institutions. We can and should break up all ghettos and force those remaining in this country to live amongst the wider community. Why we should risk the lives of our servicemen fighting in their countries when it is obvious that such wars can never be won. These people are flocking to the ISIS leadership because they know that it is following very carefully the exact teachings of the koran. Whatever we popularly like to believe, these ISIS are not fringe dwellers, they are led by a considerable moslem scholar and their people know this. We should let them have their country and then set about ensuring that they cannot get ours. Their leader made a speech recently about conquering Europe/UK. He urged moslems to migrate to our countries - and our stupid politicians allow them in.

[t43562]

We should let them have their country and then set about ensuring that they cannot get ours.

You are going to end up buying oil from them, or products from a country that bought their oil. With that money, don't you think they'll manage to come up with some ways to implement their threats?

Rather not let them get there, I think.

[Danny42C]

SilsoeSid,

Spot on ! THe only snag is:

Who'll bell the Cat ?