Silly Season ...

[CoffmanStarter]

The Silly Season has started early this year :*

MP says "deafening" military aircraft are making residents lives a misery with claims that planes are flying so low, drivers are "able to see the pilots in the cockpit"

An MP has written to the Ministry of Defence demanding they cut back on the number of low-flying military aircraft training over parts of rural Wales.

Plaid Cymru MP Liz Saville Roberts is concerned the sheer number of aircraft roaming the skies in Gwynedd and beyond could cause an accident.

Full text here ...

'Blight on our lives': Calls for MOD to restrict the number low flying jets using notorious 'Machynlleth Loop' - Daily Post (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/machynlleth-loop-low-jet-raf--10002330#rlabs=2%20rt$category%20p$5)

Someone very senior needs to have a 'one way' conversation with Ms Saville Roberts followed by an explicit briefing on why Low Flying Training is vital to our aircrews in order for them to undertake combat missions successfully and in (their) safety.

Coff.

[1.3VStall]

And someone needs to point out to the silly t*rt that the amount of low-level military flying that occurs over Wales these days is a mere fraction of what used to happen when we had a proper air force!

[Biggus]

Surely the "sheer number" of cars roaming the roads of Wales could cause an accident - best we ban all cars in Wales!!

[Melchett01]

I fully expect Ms Roberts has also checked the position of the roads in these areas, noting their height relative to aircraft height and track. Otherwise she might just look a little bit silly if it turned out that roads were roughly the same altitude as a legally planned and flown LL route that would by default give drivers a view of the crews.But of course she would have checked that first before complaining?

As for the drivers, surely they should be concentrating on the roads rather than playing at plane spotting!

[Basil]

My question to people such as her has always been: "Did the aircraft have red stars painted on it?"
The usual answer being "No." I say "Good!" (Rather than what I'd really like to say.)

[typerated]

I disagree - (just not about the need for low flying)


It seems to me the Mach Loop is used out of all proportion to the rest of the low fly system. It might just be a coincidence that there are lots of spotters with cameras and then crews asking said spotters if they got anything from their pass(es)?


Some formations going round the loop multiple times - presumably to get their photo taken?


What happened to spreading the load?


Maybe the supervision on flight planning is not quite what it could be.


It might have changed but wasn't overflying the same point more than twice discouraged.

[Tankertrashnav]

No idea of the system now but back in the 70s we had a number of low level flying areas, (North Yorks Moors was one) and also a low level route which as I recall went round the whole of the British mainland - always flown clockwise. That way everybody shared in the fun - not just the Welsh!

Remember taking Mrs TTN to Aysgarth Falls (I think) which was a turning point on the route, when we were on holiday in Yorks. After a while she commented that there seemed to be a lot of aircraft around, as a succession of Vulcans, JPs, Buccs etc passed overhead at about 5 minute intervals. I replied that it must be a coincidence!

[NutLoose]

Spotted one on Sunday, bloody hooligans

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff321/taylortony/Victory%202015/Victory%20Meteor-2_zps6jdcolju.jpg

[CoffmanStarter]

Nice pic Nutty ... I see you took the Tardis out for a spin over the weekend ;)

[NutLoose]

Nope, it was displaying on Sunday at the Victory Show :O

[ExRAFRadar]

Must admit the Mach Loop seems to get more than its fair share of pics on spotter sites.

Not that I mind, but does make one wonder..

[Miles Magister]

I think the Mach Loop got busier once we were stopped from going down the A5 pass but I am sure it is no where as busy now as it was in the 70s and 80s.

Interestingly though I noted that during the first Gulf war our total losses, including all combat, were round about one tenth (check figures before relying on my quote) of our normal peace time accidents before the war. Amazing what happens when you fly regularly !!!

MM

[High_Expect]

Rest assured the no more than two overflights rule is still in full effect. Some points to consider. The majority of traffic around the Mach Loop is probably Hawk T2. The T2 systems including HUD are recorded to a solid state brick and are downloaded onto a server after every flight. Anyone can access anyone else's flight data and see EXACTLY what was going on. The Hawk T2 has RADALT and GPWS. The level of intolerance for any rule breaking is lower than it has ever been. The level of supervision is the highest it has ever been caused by various factors (not all positive). I can, however, state that I would be gobsmacked if anyone was proven to be doing anything illegal in the 'new' Hawk - why would you put your career on the line - and yes it would be taken that seriously!
The fun police moved in years ago - that's why I left ;-)

[rolling20]

Mid Wales in the early 80's was the place to be for low flying aircraft. Hawks, Hunters, Harriers , the odd Tornado, A10 Warthogs and even Hercs hugging the terrain.
I have to say though that the most impressive flying I saw was when I was out for a run one day. In the valley I heard the noise of a low flying F-111. It was so low, it was practically level with me ( some 100 yards to my left) as I ran along the road. It then pitched rapidly up ( and my heart was in my mouth) to avoid a tree! ( no bulls++t). It then dropped backed down and continued on its merry way west...happy days!

[CoffmanStarter]

HE ... Many thanks for the above :ok:

Although I'm uncertain as to the currency of the following URL info ... Perhaps Ms Saville Roberts would benefit from reading the referenced article to gain some important basic understanding. It explains OLF in some detail along with the use/need for Tactical Training Areas ... LFA7(T) included.

UK Low Flying System (UKLFS) (http://www.targeta.co.uk/low_level_uklfs.htm)

It's a shame there aren't more current stats available in the Public Domain from the MOD ... The following covers 2012-2013

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/345172/20140508-military-low-flying-Stats_Annex_2012-13_Revised_Final-U__2.pdf

For completeness a good MOD Guidance Note ...

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/military-low-flying

Coff.