EASA License

[7giles]

Does anyone know whether it is easier to convert an FAA CPL license or a Hong Kong CAD CPL license helicopter to an EASA CPL?

[ersa]

No Difference , 13 exams , up to 30 hours flying and a flight test

[AK355]

...very close. Provided you meet all the solo and instructional training requirements for an EASA CPL(H), it's actually a minimum of 7 hours flight training under instruction in preparation for the flight skill test if you have over 1,000 hrs TT - which may be reduced by the EASA Member State Authority following recommendation by the Approved Training Organisation's Head of Training.

If you do not meet the requirements of an EASA CPL(H) you will be required to meet them. If that means extra flight time, so be it.

[maddmatt]

I am just going through this (or will be very shortly) myself. I have an Australian CPL, have spoken to an ATO and read CAP 804 - relevant bit is:

3.3.1 Undertake Part-FCL CPL (H) theoretical knowledge instruction as determined by the Head of Training of an approved training provider and pass all Part-FCL theoretical knowledge examinations at CPL level. Applicants who wish to attempt the ATPL(H) (VFR) examinations must undertake an approved ATPL(H) Modular theoretical knowledge course as set out in Part-FCL Appendix 3(H) and pass all Part-FCL ATPL(H) (VFR) examinations. Applicants who wish to attempt the ATPL(H) with IR examinations must undertake an approved ATPL(H)/IR Modular theoretical knowledge course as set out in Part-FCL Appendix 3(H) and pass all Part-FCL ATPL(H) with IR examinations.

3.3.2 Complete at an Approved Training Organisation approved to conduct CPL modular courses the minimum flight time under instruction in a helicopter as outlined at 1.3.4 below.
3.3.3 Pass the Part-FCL CPL (H) skill test.
3.3.4 Minimum instruction depending upon total hours as pilot of helicopters:
Level 1: Experience > 1000 hrs: Min 7 hrs (23 hrs credit)
Level 2: Experience 500 – 999 hrs: Min 10 hrs (20 hrs credit)
Level 3: Experience 250 – 499 hrs: Min 15 hrs (15 hrs credit)
Level 4: Experience 185 – 249 hrs: Min 20 hrs (10 hrs credit)
Level 5: Experience 155 – 184 hrs: Min 25 hrs (5 hours credit)

[7giles]

That's Awesome! thanks allot guys..

[maddmatt]

If you can I would contact an ATO in the UK, explain your current situation and what you are looking to do and they can go through the available options with you.

[MartinCh]

that table there by UK CAA may not be honoured outside UK.

It's also 'pre-approved training times' and it can be reduced on individual basis. They did this to avoid being clogged up by individual requests with ATO recommending shorter course/syllabus etc.
The IR conversion stays as 15hrs min without needing further reduction approval. CPL discussed. It can be 5 or 10 hours, really, depending on recommendation of ATO and that approved by CAA under which one would do LST (flight test, holding medical records etc).

Same with commercial. It's grossly general guidance and depends on piloting skills, familiarity with airspace, aircraft to train on, currency. So obviously don't go by the numbers only, or read the whole CAP portion or guide dealing with this. Can't find it right now - bookmark on another computer, but UK CAA as source.

BTW, you can do checkride shopping, don't have to pay hefty CPL skills test fees if you decide to do some training elsewhere, but the examiner needs to do briefing and possibly notify NAA with your training records before the actual flight test, depending on NAA.

[ersa]

Im Converting my Australian licence now.....

That Table is provided by EASA, so all ATO in EASA land have to follow it.

If your school doesn't there ripping you off.

That said , its only minimum hours, you may not be ready for the skills test by that time.

[Mustapha Cuppa]

ersa

Can you provide a reference for the EASA document containing the table?

Thanks.

[paco]

Looks like CAP 804, which is a digest of the Part FCL rules. You can download it from the UK CAA.

phil

[Mustapha Cuppa]

Sorry, I should have made myself clearer.

The table as quoted is indeed from CAP 804 and takes the form of an AltMOC issued by the UK CAA. MartinCh warned that this may not be acceptable outwith the UK. Ersa stated that "the table is provided by EASA so all ATO in EASA land have to follow it".

I was simply trying to find an EASA reference rather than the UK AltMOC in order to confirm ersa's statement.

[MartinCh]

The tables provided in FCL/amc/gm are for DIRECT VALIDATION although the ppl/ir reference is wrongly understood by Hungarian CAA at least (the 100hrs under IFR crap, if PPL newbie wants to conver IR)
They include guidance for when NAAs want to hand out 12mth max papers for normally experienced crew, to 'cut the crap' of the atpl exams, courses, flight tests. Sadly not doable for majority of pilots moving to Europe.

Cap804 nowadays MOSTLY regurgitates Part.FCL and expands on differences as valid in the UK. I'll try to find the separate doc, but I didn't save it other than on laptop I'd be near in two weeks. Even then, it's UK CAA doc and file or link was from another website.

Your easa reference for converting overseas rating/licence/cert is Article 8, clause 2 and 3. Very very vague. As assessed/recommended by ATO and approved by CAA. Could be cuppa tea and flight test, could be 10, 20, whatnot hours.

The table that figures in separate UK CAA doc, as mentioned, is load shedding exercise, to have less busy staff approving individual requests every case every rating every time. UK is busy with many foreigners converting there due to English, perceived 'value' of overpriced VAT burdened rates and UK CAA admin fees, to have licence from there.

For example in JARs, there was the 15hr IR conversion in same category spelled out. Now it's not. But common practice is at least 15hr training, for which the school and candidate do NOT require individual approval. They may get one for less, but needs to be done specifically with CAA.

Except most of my Part66 passes, I only have FRTOL and theory classes for atpl/h/a and don't see point spending few thousand more just for paperwork and some stuff 30-70% more flying wise.. But that's just me.

Honestly, I wasn't aware of this reduced theory conversion for VFR cpl, may have tried to do that year ago for converting FI(h), but atpl makes more sense as long term back up.. And fixed wing IR covers theory credit for full heli ATPL without self-funded MEIR (H) like lemming..

[7giles]

this may be a stupid question but does the training need to be done in an EASA registered ship? The general manager of my current company is a TRE here in Hong Kong and could carry out the training. He has a good knowledge of the UK requirements and would make it more cost effective.

[hueyracer]

No. Does need to be a EASA registered aircraft AND an EASA recognized ATO.

No ATO-no training......this was to stop those "Ah, i am an instructor...you are now my student...lets sign the documents and "do the training"" thing..


Excemption is an ATO outside EASA-territory that is dual-registered....

[7giles]

great thanks!

[Aus Heli Pilot]

ASK355 I was wondering if you could provide a reference in regard to you saying You can be issued an EASA CPL(H) without a night rating if you so wish.
???? As having a CASA CPL(H) this is not standard.

Also maddmatt and ersa, I was wondering how you are getting on with your conversions as I am looking to start mine soon? Any tips or useful information you could pass on?

Cheers.

[Mustapha Cuppa]

AK355

Are you sure about this?

I have always understood that the "Night-Nil" entry means that there are no limitations or restrictions to your night rating.

I take my cue from CAP 804 Section 1 Part C Appendix 2 page 14.

[ersa]

Aus Heli Pilot,

Yes Just got my EASA licence through. Look no big deal.

Not sure what stage your at, feel free to message me for info and advice

Mustapha , yes the night means no limitations

[Aus Heli Pilot]

AK355,Mustapha Cuppa and ersa thank you all for replaying, not sure what to make of the night rating now. It's going to drive the price of a conversion right up if I need one :hmm

Ersa PM sent.

Cheers.