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ATCWAG
22nd Aug 2015, 11:07
Hi

I have been an air traffic control assistant for 13 years and have saved enough money to pay for a ppl and cpl. I have always wanted to fly. I am considering now investing in my flying with the aim to make a career change to become a qualified flight instructor. I am 34 years old. I just simply want to become a flight instructor. Can I please have feed back: I will be investing every penny I have saved into this venture. Do flight instructors at least make enough money to put food on the table,pay for petrol cost,rent ect? And,are flight instructors in demand in both Australia and Uk?

I am married and I am in the fortunate position of not needing to work,but I want to and currently do work (as an ATCA). I could also use my investments on an aviation degree instead. But my heart has always been to fly.

Horatio Leafblower
22nd Aug 2015, 23:00
Nobody would go into Aviation if they were assessing it on a purely rational basis.

...however a great many people do, and they not only make a living out of it but thrive.

I regularly ask myself what I would rather be doing, and I have to tell you... nothing beats it.

If you're passionate about flying, that will shine through to your clients and you will be successful.

Go for it. :D

tail wheel
22nd Aug 2015, 23:04
Not relevant to the Dunnunda forums.

dr27
23rd Aug 2015, 16:42
only if you are really passionate and don't need to make a living (airline is great but with respect you are probably too old, BEE another story and depending on your skin colour, sorry not being offensive, this will either assist or limit your chances; fact).

cavortingcheetah
23rd Aug 2015, 21:39
I think it's an historical fact that flight instructors have never been in demand anywhere except in such small blips that only those on the ground ever get to hear of it.
I think it's also true to say that flying pay for any pilot outside of major carriers is pretty dismal and that the remuneration for flying instructors is the worst of the lot. You generally only get paid for the hours you fly and each session of flight requires a pre flight brief and a de-brief. That's professionally speaking, you understand. Can you live solo on a full time flight instructor pay? Generally speaking, yes, but you've got to get that job in the first place.
Then there's the problem of work permits and visas which, generally speaking, for Australia at least, can be tricky to obtain.
All might not be crash and burn though because it seems to me that there is often an international requirement for ATCOs with good add on qualifications. You know the ones, area, approach, aerodrome and so on.
In England you can instruct on a PPL and that's an easier route than the Com licence required in South Africa and, I think, in Australia. Perhaps a round about route might be in interesting subject for research?
The best of luck to you though. The route you outlined takes true grit and perhaps two years at least. You've got the bucks and the determination and the stability of marriage (I hope). You'd stand out in the crowd at an interview as a dedicated self improver and that counts for a lot when the jobs get doled out.

B Sousa
24th Aug 2015, 01:14
ATCWAG
Many things to consider. When I hear"Im investing everything I have saved, it bothers me." Because odds are you will get nothing back other than being able to pay to fly.
May I suggest that you consider for the time being to get a PPL and enjoy some flying in your part of the world. Then if you find that you like it, continue.
Having, at one time, a Validated FAA license in South Africa, I can truly say the headaches you will have to go through are a bit archaic and they get very expensive.
Others will say move on ,get that ATPL license, shoot for the stars. Im a realist. A license will cost you a ton, it will take a few years to do it unless you go to a school and are there continuously. You will need to build time, which will take you more time and usually only done as an instructor. No Money there. So at 34 your looking at 40 before employment. Some here will poo poo that, get back to me in a few years.
Since you have a family, again I think take it easy and do the PPL. see how it goes from there. Aussieland and the UK are a different world and unless your going to live there, very expensive. I am watching the Rand go through the roof as I type. The Cape is more beautiful than either of those places. Personally I dont care for UK Politics, but in my country its been that way for a few hundred years.

ATCWAG
24th Aug 2015, 08:41
Thank you for all the replies.

I have decided to first pursue an aviation degree to try add to my years of experience as an ATCA since an opportunity has come up to possibly join the safety team in my company. I was asked yesterday to forward my CV onto the head of aviation safety.

Thanks again for all he replies.

Foxcotte
24th Aug 2015, 10:36
ATCWAG

If you're willing and able to take the gamble, go for it!!! I changed my career from computers to flying in my early 30s too and I've never regretted it once. I had the added incentive of having a partner already ensconced in aviation but even so, I got hooked on flying and couldn't stop.

However, a few things to consider ... it is still largely a man's world, and you have to be better, more resilient, and more independent to beat them at their own game. There seems to be three basic types of female pilot, one the endless co-pilot (amiable, nice enough but no-one is really going to release her solo), the independent weirdo (odd, capable, but doesn't fit in the scheme of things), or the survivor who "makes" aviation work for her, and will beat the boys at their own game. Choose which one you are mostly likely to be, and set your aims accordingly.

Lastly, flying in Africa is unbelievably unique, but if you want to get a thorough training, consider going elsewhere for one of your ratings - I'd recommend the USA if you can afford it, just to see the scale of aviation there. Its eye opening - and whatever you do, don't get stuck in a rut of accepting local oddball ideas/procedures/habits as the normal. Its too easy to end up regionally weird. Keep sharp, keep up-to-date, keep learning and reading.

And for your family, warn them how all-consuming aviation can become, and how most jobs will take over your life (and theirs). its not an easy position for them to be in either.....

ATCWAG
25th Aug 2015, 12:59
Hi everyone

I just want to say thank you for all the advice. I really appreciate it and have lots to consider.

olympus
26th Aug 2015, 15:56
If you need some more motivation/inspiration, read a book entitled 'Plane Crazy' by Sabine Hargreaves (dreadful title but it's an interesting story and is available on the South American river...)

Sabine managed to get herself into and through ATC college here in UK, AFAIK without any formal sponsorship and when I met her she was fully licensed TWR and GND controller at Stansted, London's third airport. Somewhere along the way she acquired a PPL and then a CPL and Instructor's Rating. She then left ATC work to become a full-time instructor. This got her the hours for her I/R and the last I heard she was an F/O with Jet2 on the 737.

Oh, and I think she did all this in her second language; she was I believe born in Germany (and I think she's a little older than you).

Greenlights
26th Aug 2015, 17:01
stay ATC, honestly.

Nowadays, pilots jobs are mostly for cadets (19y/o or so) who are willing to accept any pay and jobs. They even pay to fly.
If you asked this question 10 or 20 years ago, i would say, go for it !
But today, airlines will throw your CV in the garbage without even looking at it.
It is a business, not a career.
I was pilot in my airline, now I am in the other camp. (opposite camp that most of pilots don't like or hate...) but I make more money and the frustration is gone at least.

Though I would not recommend this career to anyone unless you have a solid back up plan in case.

FYI in my airline, you would pay TR and line training. (many accept lol)
and then as a F/O if you want to be a captain one day, you will need to pay 65000usd or so for the LT too even if you have been a good employee for long time in the airline.
So, it means, during your pseudo career as a F/O you would need to save your own money for your own job, not for your futur home or what.
Since I undertood this trap I have decided to see the other camp.

Of course you will always see one or 2 success story but my advice is :
1) you don't know if it's true or not
2) it become more and more rare
3) if you don't believe what many say (included me) you can easily check the truth. Just ask airlines.

my 2 cents

B Sousa
27th Aug 2015, 00:19
Degree is the smart move. It will feed you when flying wont. I see a lot of youngesters getting into the Helicopter world. I tell them the three things they need. A College Degree, ATP, and Mulit IFR. As a helicopter type they will keep you from becoming hungry. When they are new at the flying game its time building for a couple years to get hirable hours, after that start eating at that degree while you work on getting a job flying Multi IFR. For a Helicopter Pilot, about as good as it gets. The degree will get you in management or related jobs if by chance your medical goes south or you tire of flying.