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mopardave
14th Aug 2015, 23:33
My daughter, a qualified hospital doctor thought she'd like to join the RAF reserves. Long story short........after several visits and phone calls to the recruiting office (who blamed the base) and the base in question........nothing.....not even an acknowledgement!
I was shocked and so was she. She thought she'd at least get some form of acknowledgement. She's now lost all faith and interest......I can't blame her! She's off to join her brother (ex Royal Engineers) in Australia. Is no one interested anymore? What a bloody shame!:ugh:

GalleyTeapot
14th Aug 2015, 23:39
That's what happens when you outsource part of the recruitment process. You will find lots of potential recruits with the same story.

Melchett01
14th Aug 2015, 23:45
I'd like to say it was an unfortunate one off, but I don't think it's the case. Is Capita doing all Reserves recruiting or just Army Reserves? If it's the former, then it may be less to do with the RAF per se and more to do with Capita who haven't exactly covered themselves in glory if tales are to be believed.

mopardave
14th Aug 2015, 23:52
Foolishly gents, I just expected better. I may well be wrong but I suspect the Aussies will be happy to see her.:(

Courtney Mil
15th Aug 2015, 00:20
Mop, I agree, I think the Aussies will be very happy to see her. And the whole thing is shameful. One question, have you told the MoD what has happened? I think you should; if for no other reason but letting them know the flaws in their wonderful, cost-saving, get-the-best for the Armed Forces out-sourcing is losing good people like that.

It has become common practice in many areas in the private and public sectors not to reply to applicants, but that does not make it right for the Armed Forces.

downsizer
15th Aug 2015, 08:06
To dispel a myth here, Capita has little to no part to play in RAF recruiting. It is all in house, so if the ball was dropped, it was dropped by the RAF.

All capita provide to the RAF is infrastructure in Army sponsored careers offices and medicals to candidates.

For further clarity, you cannot join the reserves through an AFCO (Armed Forces Careers Office). You join through the reserve Squadron you wish to join.

Happy to clarify any points further if anyone has any interest in the process....:\

Phil_R
15th Aug 2015, 08:22
For further clarity, you cannot join the reserves through an AFCO (Armed Forces Careers Office)

That's... well, deeply counterintuitive. If I wanted to join the reserves, that's the first place I'd go.

Suspect the main problem is that very few people actually want to, though.

P

Lordflasheart
15th Aug 2015, 08:32
It suggests here -

https://www.raf.mod.uk/recruitment/roles/medical-and-medical-support/medical-officer/

- That they are actively looking for reserve medics, and that there is a robust application process and a detailed 'career' structure.

- That you can phone (appears to go straight to medical recruitment) - email them, or visit in person to an AFCO or RAF Recruitment Centre.

The website also shows specific RAF recruiting presence at a ginormous list of events (airshows, job fairs etc) across the country - 50 listed from now to November)

You have to follow the €-trail to find it all, but it is all there with a few clicks. Sounds like the OP's Daughter was given a right rogue runaround - but thereagain, I can't speak for the accuracy of the website stuff above either.

....LFH

PS - It also says you can contact them via 'social channels' too - Is that like .... If you happen to do coffee or bridge with the local Staish's wife ?

Professor Plum
15th Aug 2015, 08:34
Isn't the RAF short of docs? I'd have thought they'd bite her hand off!

Quite shocking, and more than a little embarrassing on the part of the RAF.

CoffmanStarter
15th Aug 2015, 08:41
Mop ...

In support of Courtney's sound advice above ... It's probably better to provide your feedback to a named individual.

Air Commodore Chris Luck MBE
RAF Cranwell
Sleaford
Lincs NG34 8HB

He is Commandant of the RAF College Cranwell, but also Director of Recruitment and Initial Officer Training (RAF).

He's quite vocal on Twitter about the RAF recruiting process and it's importance ... so he should be interested in your daughters experience.

Wander00
15th Aug 2015, 08:46
CS - nice guy and very genuine - met him at the Towers Reunion weekend 3 weeks ago

Always a Sapper
15th Aug 2015, 08:52
Surley, if the MOD want the reserves thing to work then potential recruits should be able to make the initial approach at ANY MOD Establishment/Office/Recruitment Centre, with the Service then following the enquiry up within a reasonable time, say 72 hours?

With todays modern communications and the multiple options provided to communicate it really shouldnt be hard to achieve.

The difficult bit is making the reserves (and full time service) attractive to people so they actually want to join and the Services (helped by the Govt) are spectacularly failing in that respect!

Bring back the high street careers office!

mopardave
15th Aug 2015, 09:03
Courtney.....I feel like doing that. She's a determined and gutsy girl, who doesn't give up easily. To be honest, I know she's very disappointed and disillusioned. I suspect you served in a different Air Force to the one we have now. That's not a pop at those out there at the sharp end, but the bureaucrats who've proliferated.


downsizer....For further clarity, you cannot join the reserves through an AFCO (Armed Forces Careers Office). You join through the reserve Squadron you wish to join.

Happy to clarify any points further if anyone has any interest in the process....

yup, she did all that.

I have to agree with Phil R......wouldn't anyone start their quest at a recruitment office???

Coff......that's a great steer. Just so we're clear.....she visited the recruitment office twice.......they were apologetic. Assured her that someone from the base in question would DEFFO contact her. She rang said base several times and left messages......nothing.

Maybe she was unlucky?

Many thanks for your words of wisdom.....I'll have a word with her. Apart from anything, the Aussies have already got a "fine son of England"....I don't want them claiming my daughter too!!!!!!!

Best

Mopardave

mopardave
15th Aug 2015, 09:05
oh......one other thing. My motivation here is NOT to drop anyone in the sh*t.....not my style.


cheers gents


mop

Wander00
15th Aug 2015, 09:16
Mop - Why not if they are not "delivering"-

mopardave
15th Aug 2015, 09:28
Wander00


Fair point....I can't argue with that.:(

downsizer
15th Aug 2015, 09:53
That's... well, deeply counterintuitive. If I wanted to join the reserves, that's the first place I'd go.


The Careers office will talk to them for sure, and give them details of the nearest Squadron. Each Reserve Squadron has dedicated recruiters who are the SMEs for reserve recruitment. AFCOs are SMEs for regular recruitment. What I will say is there are some great pro-active reserve recruiters....and some not so.

downsizer
15th Aug 2015, 09:57
Surley, if the MOD want the reserves thing to work then potential recruits should be able to make the initial approach at ANY MOD Establishment/Office/Recruitment Centre, with the Service then following the enquiry up within a reasonable time, say 72 hours?


They can. And they will then be pointed in the right direction.


Bring back the high street careers office!

Some 60 odd RAF offices around the country as it stands.

Four Turbo
15th Aug 2015, 10:04
I once took an aircraft to Biggin to display at their Air Day. Stayed in the Mess and asked my sister (qualified new doc at Guys) to join me for the evening to see if she fancied the Air Force. After ten minutes in the bar I was asked to 'remove' her to the (empty) Ladies' Room. Tried to explain - whereupon PMC turned nasty! Sister and I left for a local pub. End of interest,

downsizer
15th Aug 2015, 10:07
Courtney.....I feel like doing that. She's a determined and gutsy girl, who doesn't give up easily. To be honest, I know she's very disappointed and disillusioned. I suspect you served in a different Air Force to the one we have now. That's not a pop at those out there at the sharp end, but the bureaucrats who've proliferated.


downsizer....

yup, she did all that.

I have to agree with Phil R......wouldn't anyone start their quest at a recruitment office???

Coff......that's a great steer. Just so we're clear.....she visited the recruitment office twice.......they were apologetic. Assured her that someone from the base in question would DEFFO contact her. She rang said base several times and left messages......nothing.

Maybe she was unlucky?

Many thanks for your words of wisdom.....I'll have a word with her. Apart from anything, the Aussies have already got a "fine son of England"....I don't want them claiming my daughter too!!!!!!!

Best

Mopardave

I don't know which Sqn she was trying to join nor which AFCO she dealt with, so I don't have specifics.

What should have happened is if she went to the AFCO they would point her in the direction of the appropriate Sqn. They are the SMEs in reserve recruiting especially Medical, which is even more niche.

If she made contact with the Sqn, they should have at least got back in touch with her in some manner.

To actually start the joining process she would have needed to phone and register her interest with the number listed on the RAFs website. This would have resulted in her having a case raised and this would have been handed to the reserve Sqn who should have been in contact to invite her to a Sqn Open day and the process rolled on from there. 100% if she did this she would have been contacted (or serious heads should roll).

downsizer
15th Aug 2015, 10:11
On a more general point, reserve recruiting and regular recruiting are two very different beasts.

Data shows that those seeking to join the Regs are far more at home making contact via social media, than coming into an AFCO. Walk-in custom is quite low. Indeed getting them to answer a phone call to tell them start dates or the like can be a nightmare.

Conversely the reserves have an older demographic, and would probably be much more comfortable with face to face dealings like what we all had when we joined up.

Melchett01
15th Aug 2015, 10:36
Every day is a school day, I had no idea you couldn't just go to the AFCO to join the Reserves; it does indeed seem counter intuitive not to have some form of central coordination across the regions.

However, I'm not surprised to hear things are still shambolic despite the aspiration and intent not to be so. A couple of tours ago one of the SNCOs on stn asked if I would help a family friend who was interested in joining up as an Airman. We got her in, showed her round and talked to her about various aspects. She was a bright young lady with potential but unsure of where she might fit in. In the end she plucked up the courage to apply for a commission. She's now in the RN after the RAF careers bungled her application so badly that after her last encounter with the RAF she went to the RN desk and they welcomed her with open arms. Sad to see things still seem to be as bad; I mean it's not like we're under strength and over stretched or anything.

Incidentally, I echo the earlier point - Air Cdre Luck is a top chap, I'm sure he would be interested to hear about this.

downsizer
15th Aug 2015, 11:39
Every day is a school day, I had no idea you couldn't just go to the AFCO to join the Reserves;

You can't really just go to the AFCO and join the regulars either.

You have to either apply online or over the phone first then you get handed off to an AFCO. (Believe it or not that is what the research says the target demographic prefer, seemingly being met by a uniformed recruiter at first can seem intimidating)

One of the improvements that is being looked at is for Candidates to complete the online application in the office with the help of the recruiter, then they could apply at the AFCO....but DII prevents this at present and cost prohibits the workaround.

Melchett01
15th Aug 2015, 11:52
You have to either apply online or over the phone first then you get handed off to an AFCO. (Believe it or not that is what the research says the target demographic prefer, seemingly being met by a uniformed recruiter at first can seem intimidating)

I suppose you're right in one sense. When I was applying for jobs after university, the RAF was the only one to have a careers office type set up to handle the application, so maybe this is simply a move to be more in line with civilian practices. Although, the likes of Schroders and SBC as it was did at least have open days and evening functions before you applied so you could meet with staff.

That said, anybody who finds a careers office intimidating, isn't i would suggest, cut out for a career in any of the forces. If they find the sight of uniform intimidating I wonder how intimidated they might be by operational life?

26er
15th Aug 2015, 15:06
In 1949, knowing I was due to be called up for National Service and having read in "Flight" or some such that NS pilots were being trained I went into the recruiting office at Haven Green, Ealing and expressed my desire to aviate. A couple of months later I pitched up at Padgate to be told "wait over there" and was amazed to find that they knew about me. (And I didn't even have a number at that point!) But I am sorry to say that from then on the RAF seems to have gradually deteriorated, certainly judging from comments in PPrune.

Rakshasa
15th Aug 2015, 15:22
I suppose expectation can play a part. Passing my A Levels and having grown up in a town which had it's own army RO and already observed several friends literally walk off the street to chat to a recruiting Sergeant, I was somewhat put out to be told I had to ring the RAF AFCO in Sheffield and then spend two hours on a bus to get there just to make an initial interview appointment let alone OASC.

In the end, I knocked it back and took the university place I'd been offered instead.

I eventually joined the UAS and went DE on from there.

mopardave
15th Aug 2015, 20:13
downsizer......on her second visit to the RO (first visit got her nowhere), she was promised her details would be passed to the squadron concerned and that she'd get an invite to the open day. She also got an apology for having to chase things up! Nothing came of her second visit! She rang the station and left two messages.......nothing!


My question to you is, is this some kind of initiative test? How hard does it need to be? All seems pretty disjointed to me. My own experience was completely different......turn up at RO......take care of the formalities......voila........rail warrant to OASC lands on my door mat.


Like I said.......bad form and I'm not impressed........come to think of it, nor is Dr Gorgeous!!!!:ugh:

downsizer
15th Aug 2015, 20:35
Which Squadron? PM in you prefer.....

I can only apologise.

I understand the reasons for going to the AFCO, makes perfect sense to me. However the system is no longer geared like that. If she'd have registered with the phone number on the website I can assure you she would have received an invite to the open day. Doing this creates an audit trial and the persons interest and progress can be tracked through the system. She should have been told this as well.

What failed, well I can't say for sure, the recruiter may not have passed the message or the Sqn may have never got back to her; either way not good enough.

If she has any interest left, please do implore her to register on 0345 606 9069 and she will get an invite to an open day.

maxred
15th Aug 2015, 20:54
I am confident that the systems that are put in place, are genuinely designed to attract and welcome potential recruits.

My recent experience. My 15 year old wants to be an officer/pilot. At a recent country fair, the RN are there with the recruiting bus. Up we pop, I introduce him to the two guys, one in camo, one in RN uniform. We then spent probably the most excruciating 15 minutes I can remember, as these two plonkers, set about demeaning not only my son, but the service. At one stage CAMO asked, can you do, or do you know, what, a proper press up is? He then , obviously proceeded to show us. Then, which actually turned out to be the final straw, was when Mr RN, with a very large belly sticking over his too tight RN trousers, spotted something on my sons wrist. What's that? I explained he had a small bout of excema. Game over was the actual reply from Mr RN, followed by Camo echoing the, "Game over". He will not pass the medical. Bye, Bye.

Not many times I am left speechless. This was one.

So, as I started, I am sure the system is not meant, nor designed to be like this. But something ain't right in the recruiting game:ugh: