EK to give all freighter flying to Atlas...

[Kapitanleutnant]

Heard a few days back EK to give all 777 freighter flying to Atlas Air in a big contract to Atlas, which helps the current shortage at EK.

Would make sense but it has to be an expensive venture if true.

K

[Avid Aviator]

How is it expensive?
Pay will be less than EK mainline package, based in US and Europe somewhere, frees up B777 pilots for the DXB pax operation. The freighter op is very inefficient, uses a lot more pilots per hour than mainline.
Pity for EK guys though to lose all that flying, promotions and destinations.

[Kapitanleutnant]

Avid…

I take it you're not an EK guy? If you were, you might understand that this is a good thing for us in that it will, if true, relieve the 95 hours plus we do each and every month across so many time zones it makes your head spin.

[striker26]

Seamen - i think because Emirates has such a vast fleet and route network, is fair to say they didnt prepare for the future. Too much depended on "we'll always have applicants to support out growth". That being said though, EK contracting Atlas is not a bad sign, many airlines do it and many cargo companies contract out third parties to do their work too.

I do think its fair to say though that in order to prepare for the future you have to PLAN accordingly, lets see how they fair in a few years, i really hope their training staff are ready for quality over quantity!!! :rolleyes:

[flite idol]

This idea was run up the flag pole a while back. I think it was the original plan to CMI the freighters when that operation was fully moved to DWC. Seemed to lose traction but who knows? No idea how Atlas could crew any more airframes, attrition is significant at the moment and will get worse when American Airlines open the hiring fully. Interesting times.

[Keelhaul]

Why Atlas instead of Southern? Southern already has a proven 777 operation. Experienced 777 crews ready to go tomorrow.

[striker26]

I think EK had Atlas doing a few cargo runs for them for a while now, maybe they negotiated a good deal idk....Atlas Air also leases a few aircraft to Etihad just as an example that EK is not the only airline expanding its cargo capacity.

[Kapitanleutnant]

Striker... I agree but a few years ago EK elected to stop doing that and fly the freight with their own crew and dedicated 777F's. But now if this is all true, it's a sign of how short we really are of pilots!

[Wizofoz]

If we did so, Atlas would have a sudden need for a large number of 777 rated pilots, GCAA license an advantage.

I wonder where it could find some.......

[uba737]

Wizo, I THINK they also need an FAA license and US Residency unless Atlas sets up a subsidiary outside the US to do this kind of flying?

[flite idol]

BTW.......who is operating the 747BCF for Qatar that was supposed to kick off on Aug 1?

[flite idol]

Atlas still have the bones of GSS in STN. The certificate apparently is gone but a crew leasing outfit would not need one......just thinking out loud.....

[Wizofoz]

Atlas does or at least did operate the EK 747Fs with A6 rego, so their pilots would have needed a GCAA licence. I don't know if they were dual licensed to fly the N reg aircraft as well.

They don't currently fly 777s, so the entire fleet would be on the UAE registry.

I also don't think you need US residency to fly for a US company not based in the US- but I stand to be corrected.

[flite idol]

Well I will correct your first point. All of the 747-400F that Atlas ACMI'd to EK were N rego.

[flite idol]

True....Atlas do not operate 777 but they have the program in place and the check pilots typed and qualified, just no airframes as of yet. If they were to operate them for anyone they would be N reg.

[Popgun]

Well I will correct your first point. All of the 747-400F that Atlas ACMI'd to EK were N rego.

Correct. Atlas has never operated UAE-registered aircraft.

PG

[Keelhaul]

Having two check pilots vs an entire AQP trading program are very different things.

[Keelhaul]

Sorry, training program, not trading.

[Wizofoz]

Fair enough. For some reason I though a couple were A6 reg.

Still, it would create even more opportunities for our US guys.

[Fear_of_heights]

I am amazed to see you guys think its good...:ugh::ugh: Downsizing company means less airplanes, less pilots ,less upgrades , less destinations. The only positive I guess is less hours...:}

[Iver]

There are probably Americans flying the 777 at EK who would volunteer to leave EK and join Atlas on the new 777s...

[Kapitanleutnant]

Fear…

If you spent 4 months plus in our shoes, you'd see why we want FEWER hours no matter who does the flying. I have over 95 hours this month with previous 6 months being nearly as much with absolutely no break except for scattered vacation sometimes given at their discretion at 4 days at a time. That's not a vacation… that's merely a long weekend!!

No one here (IMO, nor have I heard anyone say) wants MORE flying… no one!! It's getting to a point of pure survival and health issues as to who does the flying. Yes, very different from a union regulated airline in the west flying 75 hours a month!!!

K

[SOPS]

Question guys, if this is true, would they park the freighters, or put them on the N reg for Atlas to fly?

[flite idol]

if Emirates put the freighter fleet out to CMI, they would usually be registered to the country that the contracting companies AOC is based. If it went to a pure crew leasing organization I assume arrangements could be made for local licenses to be issued and keep them on A6. The government own the airline and the aviation authority so they can be very flexible on such things as license issuance, crew duty.......etc etc. know what I mean:8

[Sheikh Your Bootie]

No one habibis, has answered this. Where in the world are they going to get 777 rated crews to fly 13 777F's??? That is to say based on 10 crews/aircraft, maybe a bit less. give or take 250 rated 777 drivers. Where are they going to find them??? without a magic wand?
Thats right, ex EK pilots, and thats about it. Maybe a few ex Korean, maybe ex Chinese airlines. Where will they base them, the sandpit. Same same, no point leaving EK.

It will never happen, just an idea that grew legs into a great rumour.

The Freighter operation is inefficient, and needs revision. Maybe we could elect to fly a month of 777F, instead of RSV. Would suit me.

SyB :zzz:

[Kapitanleutnant]

SYB…

There's no need for an instant group of a large number of pilots. If this is true, Atlas will.. as all US airlines do, put out a bid for a number of T7 pilots to their existing pilots group. Have you forgotten how that works in the west? They've already got a huge number of 744 and 748 pilots so to get 777 pilots, and it will not be overnight...they will offer it in the way their contract says.

Maybe they will be the first airline to offer DEC's in the US (non Regional Airline). Highly doubt it as seniority rules over there.

I'd think EK would not start this operation unless Atlas had enough pilots trained and ready to go for this operation if it ever happens.

Kap

[cf680c2b]

Atlas senior FOs will jump into the left seat of the triple and they will hire a few dozen rj captains (lots of those to choose from) for the right seat...BAM!...you got yourself a 777 ops. It won't be hard.

[Bartholomew]

2 MD-11's from a southern African operator now based in Maktoum.... carrying EK freight only.....

Welcome to the future!

Great planning AAR~!

[Desdihold]

I had a long chat with an Atlas crew in Sydney this week on the topic of Atlas crews flying ek 777 freighters.
Their opinion was that it's not going to happen as they are not able to keep up with their current demands on pilot recruitment.
They are running three classes of eight each month and are losing ten pilots a month through a mixture of retirements and younger pilots going to the majors.
They have also heard the ek freighter rumors but they think it's dead in the water.

I heard it from a pilot so it must be true !

[atpcliff]

Atlas has 777s, but they don't operate them. They have been trying to start operating 777s for about 4 years. I heard they are trying to do the EK operation, but they need more pilots, and they need a union agreement on the pay rate for the 777...they may not be able to get enough pilots to do it.

Atlas flies their own planes, and they fly planes that are owned by various other organizations. They even have a couple of planes that they own, lease to another entity, and then CMI them for the other entity! Crazy!

They also lease out a number of planes that they own, including 777s.

When they operated the 747s for EK, they didn't have a DXB base, they just flew pilots in and out to do the op. All of their pilot bases are in the US, and they fly the crews to/from wherever they need to go, sometimes deadheading on their own aircraft, and more often flying as PAX on someone else, including EK.

[halas]

Engineer at DWC said Atlas no go.

AAR wants control of the whole outfit and if Atlas were the best deal then why did he get rid of them?

halas

[Bartholomew]

Recently flew out of, and back into DWC.

Lots of idle freighters on the way out, even more when we got back!

According to the Load Master... Tuesday mornings sees most of the fleet on the ground in DWC, and then it varies throughout the week.

He is contracted out to Atlas as well.....

Take from that what you will.

[bpp]

The problem for Atlas is not getting pilots to fly the 777, the problem would be back filling the 767 and 747.
bpp