Korean Air coming to DXB September 23-24th

[neh13]

Visit ::: Welcome to Total Aviation Service - TAS ::: (http://www.flytas.com) for more information.


“Job Opportunity Information Sessions by Korean Air”




Two daily information Sessions will be held on September 23rd and 24th, 2015 InterContinental Dubai - Festival City
Al Amwaj 2 Meeting Room ph: +971 4 701 1111

1st session: 10:00a ~ 13:00p,
2nd session: 16:00p ~ 19:00p

The Session will provide more information on Korean Air, our training and selection program, commuting, and details of our comprehensive and competitive remuneration package.

Why Korean Air?
“No need to relocate residence.” – Korean Air is offering an excellent commuting contract. You and your family can enjoy better lifestyle.

Commuting
“No hassle to buy tickets.” – Every month pilot’s commute travel provided by KAL. The pilot can choose one of 128 cities Korean Air operates from as a base for commuting.
Days off and Annual Leave
All crew members are given 9 consecutive days off per month. Three travelling days are provided additionally. Two days of annual leave (up to 7 days monthly, 24 days yearly) can be combined to those days~9-16 days/mo, at Home!
Almost all of your leave requests are granted, protected and guaranteed.
Contract Term
Five Years, renewable until 65 for Captains, and 55 for First Officers.
Accommodations
5* Star hotels in Seoul and overseas.
Generous Employee Ticket Benefits
Generous travel benefits for the pilot and their family members.

Minimum Requirements:

Captain
Age Limit: less than 60(TR) 55(NTR) years at time of Joining
Recent Flight :
-OnType: within 1 year (2 yr, if current MC Jet) -NonTypeRated (NTR): within 6 mos on Like Type
(1 yr, if current MC Jet).
B744/B777/A380/A330/B737NG:
Total Flight Time: 7000hrs (B737NG 5,000)
Total MultiCrew Jet: 5000hrs (B737NG 4,000) Total PIC MultiCrew Jet: 2,500hrs (B737NG 2,000) On Type: 1,000hrs (PIC, or w/ some FO credit) B777NTR: 1,000hrs (B767/B747-4-8)
A330NTR: 1,000hrs (A319/320/321/340).

First Officer
Age Limit: less than 45 years at time of Joining Total Flight Time: 2,000hrs (B737NG 1,000)
MultiCrew Jet: 1,000hrs Recent Flight :
-On Type: within 1 year (2 yr, if current MC Jet) -NTR: within 6 mos (1 yr, if current MC Jet).
B744/B777/A380/A330/B737NG: On Type: 500hrs
B777NTR: 500hrs (B767/B747-4-8) A330NTR: 500hrs (A319/320/321/340).
Expatriate Pilot Management Team.

::: Welcome to Total Aviation Service - TAS ::: (http://www.flytas.com)

[SOPS]

Everyone is coming to Dubai!

[fatbus]

What is not mentioned is the pay - not great
Taxes - Korean tax deducted from pay

[Blue system]

So what is the pay for a Captain at Korean (commuting)?

[CaptainProp]

T7 about $12.9K, 330 $11.9K, overtime $125-135 / hour over 75 / 70 hrs. Add $700-1000 per diem to those numbers. These numbers from Rishworth.

Confirmed business class when going on duty, economy "upgradable when available" when going off duty.

Any tax paid in Korea is deductible towards tax due in your home country, at least in many countries in Europe.

CP

[uba737]

$12,932.00 per month!

[fatbus]

777 - 13k less tax . Unlike China which is 19.5k taxes paid

[HEALY]

Have I read it correctly that in getting the assured 11 days off straight per month you actually have to use at least 2 days of annual leave each month to do it. So in essence its 9 days plus travel days.

[ekolbregit]

Yes. You read it wrong. 2 days annual leave per month is extra to 9 days off.

[Blue system]

What about pay on the 737?

[Iznogood]

Guys, I have heard that there is no command upgrade for FO joining KAL, is that right?

[Gander_Radio]

Yes, that's right. As an FO on the 737 for example you can upgrade on the 747 as an FO but no command upgrade. I heard it is something to do with the labor law over there.


Gander

[CAT3A]

23nd of August or September?

[Kamelchaser]

That is so far behind the going rate for an experienced wide body captain I'd be surprised if they get any more that tyre kickers.

[uba737]

That salary + 12 continuous days at home every month! In a heartbeat!!!!

[CaptainProp]

737 about $9.4K.

I don't work for Korean, neither am I planning to. Having said that, if I had to chose between Korean or any of the Chinese gigs I would go for the Korean commuting option everyday of the week. From what I hear from guys spending time in China, also outside aviation, it's not really viable to stay for any longer periods of time due to pollution, bad quality hotels in mainland China, lack of good quality food in said hotels, constant delays due to issues with military airspace restrictions etc etc. Then add the recruitment process and astronaut medical checks every year....

Living in most places in Europe and the US, making $13-14K per month before tax and having 11 days off at home is actually not such a bad deal for many. The alternative is living in "tax free" Middle East with skyrocketing costs, 40C for months every year and often getting treated like dirt.

Kamelchaser - I don't think it's that far off the "going rate" for commuting contracts outside China. Ethiopian pays $9000 basic pay for their T7 contractors. Can't imagine Asiana paying their guys much more than that either... Who else, outside China, takes on widebody contractors on commuting contracts? Air Atlanta perhaps, how much do they pay?

CP

[burnable gomi]

The Chinese are catching on to the commuting contracts though. Many of the operators now offer 4 weeks on/4 weeks off for USD13-14k/month on the A320. KAL used to get away with the low pay because of the great commuting schedule but now others have matched or surpassed their schedule while offering more money.

[777AV8R]

I worked there for 8 years. Probably THE best commuting contract on the planet, unless you're lucky to be able to get on with one of the Chinese carriers out of Beijing and get based in YVR.

Korean might not pay that well but their equipment is excellent. Extremely high maintenance standards. The training is a bit of a hassle to get through but once you're done, you're left alone.

In the 8 years, I never had my days off violated once. Always got Christmas off. Yes, you have the option of saving your 2 days leave per month and taking 24 somewhere later in the year or you can add them to your blocked days off each month to get 11 days off a month.

Business class travel to and from your base. No hassles.

Sure the pay could always be more but it was a very good gig.

[Iznogood]

777AV8R, Is it the same for FO expat?

[777AV8R]

The days off etc are the same. I don't believe they're doing any upgrades. Also, there are a number of hiring agencies out there. Be careful. They promise you everything and deliver nothing.

[nolimitholdem]

Korean...
I worked there for 8 years. Probably THE best commuting contract on the planet, unless you're lucky to be able to get on with one of the Chinese carriers out of Beijing and get based in YVR.

Korean might not pay that well but their equipment is excellent. Extremely high maintenance standards. The training is a bit of a hassle to get through but once you're done, you're left alone.

In the 8 years, I never had my days off violated once. Always got Christmas off. Yes, you have the option of saving your 2 days leave per month and taking 24 somewhere later in the year or you can add them to your blocked days off each month to get 11 days off a month.

Business class travel to and from your base. No hassles.

Sure the pay could always be more but it was a very good gig.

May I ask why you left, if the reasons are not too personal? Not being facetious, genuinely curious.

Retirement, hopefully?

[c560xl]

I wonder who else is coming to Dubai and why only Dubai:ugh:

[CaptainProp]

I wonder who else is coming to Dubai and why only Dubai:ugh:

Heard Ryanair is coming to town for a road show.....

CP

[Fearless Leader]

I wonder who else is coming to Dubai and why only Dubai

Maybe they smell blood in the water.........

[777AV8R]

Changes to a tax treaty combined with another opportunity saw a number of us move on. Was it a good move? Not so sure it was although retirement was coming and there were other interests.

Despite all the rumors, KAL remains the best commuting contract around and worth the effort.

[Kapitanleutnant]

AV8R….

One things that I have never been able to get my head around is hearing a few horror stories of KAL here on the prune…. Realizing some of it's nonsense, but generally there's a lot of truth to what's said here. Can you address these for me please:

1. There is/was a scenario where you would get all the way thru training, take your final line check and not pass… and then get terminated.. with few other options since you've already resigned your previous airline, just for failing a check ride?

2. You get reported by your local KAL FO for not following SOP's to the "T" such as not turning on the landing lights in the exact proper by-the-book sequence, thus causing troubles and a visit to the chief's office?

3. FO's who essentially put up a brick wall between them and you (left seater) for the entire 14 hour flight to wherever because you're taking his position?

4. A Korean aviation Fed who fails expats quite routinely and due to this, they get fired from KAL?

5. Astronaut physicals in which they always look for a way to fail you on your medical?

I find it hard to believe some guys wrote this stuff over the years but it has always remained in my head about KAL and to be honest, made me steer clear.

Thanks for answering if you might know.

Kap

[Freehills]

The US majors pay in the area of $24000USD/month.

The amount of lift. the amount of revenue a wide body aircraft generates on a monthly basis justifies this type of salary, everywhere.

The US carriers do not pay a single US penny more than what they think the pilots are worth. In fact, the pilots are worth more, but the number above is what the carriers could live with.

US carriers can only hire US pilots. If (like ME3) they could hire worldwide, and offer (say) South Africans, Indians etc. a work permit in the the US, I don't think they would pay as much.

[777AV8R]

1. There is/was a scenario where you would get all the way thru training, take your final line check and not pass… and then get terminated.. with few other options since you've already resigned your previous airline, just for failing a check ride?

2. You get reported by your local KAL FO for not following SOP's to the "T" such as not turning on the landing lights in the exact proper by-the-book sequence, thus causing troubles and a visit to the chief's office?

3. FO's who essentially put up a brick wall between them and you (left seater) for the entire 14 hour flight to wherever because you're taking his position?

4. A Korean aviation Fed who fails expats quite routinely and due to this, they get fired from KAL?

5. Astronaut physicals in which they always look for a way to fail you on your medical?

I find it hard to believe some guys wrote this stuff over the years but it has always remained in my head about KAL and to be honest, made me steer clear.


Here are some answers to the questions as I saw it:

1. Yes. The problem was cultural. Not necessarily theirs, but ours. When a pilot finishes his sim. training, he/she is assumed to know just about everything (I know..but..). Once into line training, the candidate is supposed to assume control (especially if you're already type rated and have held a command prior to come to KAL)and know the whole operation. If you ask a question of your national check pilot early in your training, he will see it as that you don't know anything and mark that down on the training record. That one remark may have been on day 1 of line training. You may be assigned to a couple of different LCPs during your line training. The later LCPs would never utter a positive comment on your training form due to the 'loss of face' of the first LCP you were with. Especially true if the first LCP was quite senior in status. As a result, you go through to the last check ride and find you didn't pass because of the first remark, several weeks ago.
Lesson? Don't ask questions.

2. Yes. KAL has had a terrible safety reputation. After the Guam crash, there was a concerted effort to change the safety culture and get CRM and SOPs into the mainstream. It really worked well. The company began to hire you guys and gals from the aviation university in Seoul. As a result, the culture did change and the problem was that the Expat pilots, who had come from various other airlines, didn't embrace the culture in a positive way. Not their fault. They were doing what was taught of them.

3. The Brick Wall. Yes. I had that experience. Once! I was working with an ex-air force pilot. He was a bit of a trouble maker. I had a very good relationship with the Chief Pilot. I took the step of hauling his ass up to him. It worked and I had no further problems. Maybe I was lucky. The brick wall is there but I've been away for a while and don't know how it exists now.

4. There was a CAA inspector like that when I was there. Had no clue on what he was doing. I was on a check to SFO and he came along. During our layover there was a labor strike by the pilots in Korea. My LCP called me up and asked what we should do as he wasn't part of the union. I told him he essentially was in command.....we left. The 'Fed' didn't want to go. We left him in SFO. I'm not sure if he ever made it back.

5. Medicals: That used to be the case...gawd...show up at 06:00 and go through the testing...and it took all morning. There was a reason my blood pressure went off the clock! I don't believe that is the case any more...maybe for the initial medical however; I think they've relaxed things. It was quite an experience each 6 months. It took about 2 years to actually figure things out.

I hope it helps!

Still a good gig.

[3ply]

The training , once with the Koreans , will humiliate even the most optimistic sole .

The salary is just that. My mate has been on the same amount for last 5 years. No raise . No incriminate. No OT.

Very little english spoken.

Cant think why anyone would consider it unless time off in a block is so important to you.

You can skive uk tax though !

[Tasmanian]

Can anybody share 737 fleet roster? PM is also ok.

[Kapitanleutnant]

AV8R…

You've pretty much answered YES to each and every scenario I mentioned!!

Some things will just never change I guess….

K

[Marsellus]

AV8R…

You've pretty much answered YES to each and every scenario I mentioned!!

Some things will just never change I guess….

K


Still a good gig......😂

[bravo45]

Thanks for the info. Due to various reasons such as those listed above, I was advised by every single person I spoke with who have advised me against going there.

Even then I was still willing to consider at least applying, for the experience if nothing else... Until the absolute deal breaker was revealed; No upgrades for expats!! I have heard as an FO on the NG that I can't even expect to move to a 777.

Can you confirm that 777AV8R?

[777AV8R]

Bravo', I still believe that to be the case. No upgrades. It would be good to talk to one of the Agencies on it. CCL is probably the best if you're going that route.

[BritishGuy]

US carriers do NOT pay $24,000 per month simply just like that. You don't make that on getting hired. Not even half (much, much less in fact).

You'll have to put in hard graft for 20 odd years and have some luck on your side to make that sort of cash with US airlines. Will go out on a whim and say that only a small percentage of folks earn anywhere near that.

These other gigs (china/asia) pay the cash straight off the bat. So it's not really a fair comparison.

APC has all the figures on the pay. To earn $24,000 you'll have to put in about 20 years to get close to that. Not knocking it - just saying it how it is. US airlines and pay just don't stack up. But then a lot of other things they have do (eg benefits, union etc).

[BDD]

For American Airlines 12 year captain which is the top of the scale:

Year A380 747 767-400 777-200 777-300 A330 787 A350 767- B757-200 B767-300 A319 A320 A321 MD80 B737 E190
12 299 299 285 285 285 285 285 285 242 242 242 228 228 228 228 228 149

The guarantee is 71 hours per month. No flight pay in the U.S. just your hourly pay plus per diem and overtime,
plus duty and trip rigs, and night, and international pay. So for a 777 captain, $285.00 per hour x's 71 = $20,235 per month.
The thing in the U.S. is you don't have to work as hard for the money!!


BDD

[BobDole]

American Airlines
Total: 11357
Active: 10157
Furloughed: 1200
Most junior captain hired: MIA 737 Nov 98

Mandatory retirements:
2013 - 58
2014 - 83
2015 - 112
2016 - 135
2017 - 190
2018 - 300
2019 - 418
2020 - 535
2021 - 580
2022 - 647
2023 - 704
2024 - 717
2025 - 713
2026 - 705
2027 - 595
2028 - 512
2029 - 474
2030 - 414
2031 - 434
2032 - 385
2033 - 368

Source - airlinepilotcentral.com

[HPSOV L]

Once you're working there it's not much different from other asian airline jobs and better than most. The commuting works well. Don't expect the pay to change anytime soon. Down route hotels are adequate but not 5 star.


There is no Korean tax paid in respect of your salary. The only Korean tax deducted is on the per deims you are paid while in Korea which is negligible. So study the Dual Taxation Agreement your country has with Korea to avoid unpleasant surprises. Hint: the wording in the "ship or aircraft operated in international traffic" paragraph is crucial.

[zlin77]

Agree with 777AV8R, had seven years there with only three schedule changes! Quite a few pilots fail the training phase, I think this has more to do with attitude than ability, if you go there just learn everything their way, never say in "Airline XXX we used to do it this way", once through training they leave you alone, always had Business Class coming and going, you nominate your requested days off in advance so generally you can be around for Birthdays, Weddings, Graduations etc. Still one of the best commuting contracts going, some guys have been there over twenty years.

[nolimitholdem]

Any informed opinions on the best agency to apply through? TAS, CCL, Rishworth, etc?

There's probably a thread on the Far East forum but that's so far to walk...

[777AV8R]

Did we fly together?
It was a pretty good time there at the hotel. The expat group contained some of the best pilots I've ever flown with. Highly professional group of guys who knew their 'stuff'.
And its true what Zlin says...LEAVE company XXXXX that you used to fly with and don't ever bring it up in conversation. Its a deal breaker.

[TIMINGandLUCK]

Does anyone have any solid info on what the commuting contract is like for an FO at Korean? I understand there is no upgrade possibility but thats ok with me as I would likely use it as an interim job to get a job with a legacy in the USA. I am weighing my options vs taking a LCC job with JetBlue or Spirit while I wait. I have been at EK for nearly 4 years but I am sure that once we start taking DEC's I will have at least 2-3 years before an upgrade comes and I can't take these rosters for that much longer. Any info on the QOL and pay would be very helpful.

Thanks,

T&L

[Laker]

There are a few ex Korean FO's at EK. I'm sure if you ask around someone will tell you who. The one I flew with loved it but said the lack of a command prospect made him leave. He said he usually flew about 60-75 hours per month and the layovers were good. Hotel in ICN was great. Good social opportunities if you are single. If you don't need the upgrade then it's a good place to work as an FO.

[maligno]

This job is basically for those looking for days OFF to have a better lifestyle, not money. You can make it up to 13 days off in a row + travel days (normally 3).
Then you will have to pay back the extra 2 you used per month. Its simple. If you had good savings thanks to your organized finances and investments previously, 12.9k plus 1k per diem per month, its quite good. If you want only money, go to China.
KE is the best communting on earth. Business class travel, days OFF when requested and never even questioned, airplanes in wonderful shape, easy and very relaxed operation (excluding OE, which for me was super nice but for other might be stressing). After OE, you are on your own. 65-70 hrs average a month.

As a former EK slave, Korean is heaven.

[120feet]

Just around the corner!

[donpizmeov]

Jungle drums say A380 positions for expat Capts is now approved (or FAA suggested). No beats telling of money though.

For those that way inclined.

[Canuck15]

KAL has a very silly requirement for captains which is not mentioned here.


MUST HAVE 4 YEARS AS AN FO.




they should really drop the requirement as some of us didn't have the right seat for 4 years before we made it as captains. If this has changed then please enlighten us .


Happy Landings

[Kapitanleutnant]

Wow… you really don't have 4 years as an FO in the airline world? Good on you!!! You're career has been far better than mine… spending over 11 years in the right seat. It doesn't have to be in the 777…

From the CCL page

B777 Captains
Rated

B777 PIC Type Rating
Operated type as PIC within 1 year
1,000+ hours on type
2,500+ PIC hours Airline Jet Transport
5,000+ hours Airline Jet Transport
7,000+ hours Total Time
Max age < 60 years (must join before turning 60)
4+ years F/O Jet experience (Airline Jet Transport)


K

[Canuck15]

yes sir i was fortunate enough to get the captain upgrade so no i don't have 4 years as an FO. I exceed every other requirement so I guess I am out ....

[Dropp the Pilot]

Ask around. There was a Canadian captain who left EK for KAL. On his first day at work his new employer asked for a quick review of his history. First question "where is your four years of FO experience". Answer: "I've never been a first officer - I was in the military and it just doesn't work that way". Response: "Then there is no job for you at KAL".

After pointing out this might be a bit convenient as he had resigned from EK, they did in the end relent and deign to let him work there even though he was dangerously under-qualified.....

[flareflyer]

Did somebody go at the roadshow?
any feedback?

[fliion]

AlsMOST 40 came in the second afternoon session

I heard there were just under 50 in the morning session and that the VP Flt KAL ops apologized to those who came as there were not enough seats - they delayed presentation while the divider in conference room was opened and staff brought extra chairs.

Now taking A380 DECs and will upgrade expat FOs - just fine tuning that contract.

First time I'd been in a group of so many seriously angry EK pilots...not much emotion just legitimate complaints. Many have had had enough. Number one complaint - days off and "the arrogant delivery" that is a constant

Very experienced gathering, nice contract if no kids to school.

I think this will be a real problem for bouncy castle now that they will upgrade and 380 hiring beginning.

Karma anyone ?

f.

[Kapitanleutnant]

Did I read this right.... KAL is now going to upgrade expat FO's? Wow... I've flown with many an EK FO who have said if KAL ever upgraded to left seat they would go! Another issue for EK management and potential boon to Korean

K

[TSHEKUDU]

So what you guys are saying is that they will take you directly onto the 380 as a captain. If that's the case I am out of here. Heeeyaaa

[OnceBitten]

Was that upgrade 380 F/o's only or was that for all fleets on their respective type? e.g 777 & 330

[fliion]

Now Actively recruiting A380 DECs. Put the Big Bus pay rates up on the screen which were same as 777, said they would probably be revised higher for 380 just using these numbers now as they had gotten approval for 380 DECs literally in last couple of weeks.

A little more vague on the criteria for upgrading expat FOs (yes - all fleets incl. 380)for now as final details of the program being ironed out in Seoul..launch date imminent. He did mention that he believed the FO upgrade candidate would have to complete one contract cycle to upgrade - ie 5 years.

[ExDubai]

Interesting times ahead for EK HR :E

[Uplink]

So that's 170-180 over two days. if I was in the bouncy castle right now I would be worried !! But then again knowing them as I do they probably don't give a toss!

[mmorel]

also in the US 20k salary is before tax and Uncle sam will take at least 40% of it.

[120feet]

mm
I am not sure what you are trying to say, but the first $97,500 is tax free and the rest is taxable at your tax rate then minus the Korean paid taxes from your US liability. So it would be way less than 40%. Someone feel free to correct me. Was there today about 40 in the room. Talking to the pilots there I figure about half who showed up were serious about Korean, and 90% were serious about leaving.

[FlyingTinCans]

Anyone know the tax situation for Brits looking at KAL?

As most looking at this contract will have a home & family living in the UK, the 13 days off per month will take you over the '91 day limit'.

How much would her majesty want from you pay packet?

[Kapitanleutnant]

mmorel….

Agree with 120feet. You're nowhere near close. Just use 100K per year as the exemption. Then add your deductions and you're down to WAY less than half of what you're saying for US taxes.

K

[fliion]

What Kap & 120 said.

Agency gives a tax certificate at end of each year which shows a tax rate already paid of between 10-17% further off setting.

Also you travel into U.S. on your days off on Crew Deck. Up to individual to report Bona Fide status.

WITHOUT personal deductions - I'm figuring about $30k taxable for CAPTS - FOs tax free.

[harry the cod]

FTC

As you may or may not be aware, status of 'domiciled' has become more complicated recently. There are various criteria you need to comply with in order to avoid UK income tax and having property empty, schooling, wife living there, length of contract, other family members etc all can conspire to effect your liabilities.

My best advice is to do a few searches and see if there's a common theme and, most importantly, seek professional advice. The Fry Group are used by quite a few pilots, EK, BA & CP and would be a good start. They are probably due a visit next month or so. I'd also then get secondary professional advice just to make sure they're the same and always in writing. I'm sure other posters could recommend someone they use.

Making a rash decision now could have massive implications on your earning potential and personal future wealth. Good luck.

Harry

[Wizofoz]

Unfortunately, for Aussies, I can't see how you'd be anything but resident for tax purposes, so you'd be on the hook for everything above what you could show had been already paid.

Still potentially attractive.

[Kim Jong Unstable]

South Korea is not the best place in the world to work. The food is crap, it is extremely cold and miserable in the winter, much worse than Europe and the "culture" is very weird, particularly in airlines. English is hardly spoken and when it is then generally very badly. They also have a thing about "learning by humiliation"

[anson harris]

...the 13 days off per month will take you over the '91 day limit'

If you have a home in the UK plus wife, kids etc using schools, NHS etc, then you are more likely to come under the 45 day limit.

[nakbin330]

A lot of our pilots were rumoured to be joining KAL a few years ago. It didn't happen. I anticipate a slightly different outcome this time around.

[fatbus]

I think it goes in cycles. New batch of Capts now have the time including the 380 now.
I hope a lot of pilots go this time, very few did last time.

Dropp, I can't think of who you are referring to , Canadian , ex mil, left EK to get there and then rejected. Where did he end up?

I think worth mentioning is that it is 11 days off per month including all vacation. You might and I stress might get an extra day once in awhile on your travel days but don't plan on it. A lot depends where you live.

FO upgrades? Did he say 380 expat FO s to upgrade to Capt on the 380 and if so how long til an upgrade.

Also what staff travel/ zed /OAL agreements do expats have with KAL?

[777boyo]

Nakbin,

The UK tax rules changed significantly a couple of years ago, and the 90/180 day guidance is no longer a 'blanket' rule. The current rules are published by HMRC in the Statutory Residence Tests Guidance document, downloadable from the following link - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rdr3-statutory-residence-test-srt . If the link doesn't work, go to the HMRC website (hmrc.gov.uk), and search for document RDR3.

I can recommend it as a better sleep aid than OMA, but some of its contents will probably serve as a wake-up call!

7B

[nakbin330]

Thanks Boyo. I thought as much so deleted my post.

[falconeasydriver]

The UK tax rules changed significantly a couple of years ago, and the 90/180 day guidance is no longer a 'blanket' rule. The current rules are published by HMRC in the Statutory Residence Tests Guidance document, downloadable from the following link - https://www.gov.uk/government/public...dence-test-srt . If the link doesn't work, go to the HMRC website (hmrc.gov.uk), and search for document RDR3.

I can recommend it as a better sleep aid than OMA, but some of its contents will probably serve as a wake-up call!



The easiest answer is to "legally" divorce the missus, but you didn't hear it from me and I don't know anyone who would stoop to such levels:E

[ExDubai]

South Korea is not the best place in the world to work. The food is crap, it is extremely cold and miserable in the winter, much worse than Europe and the "culture" is very weird, particularly in airlines. English is hardly spoken and when it is then generally very badly. They also have a thing about "learning by humiliation"

So you suggest applying at Air Koryo because of their famous Cheeseburger?

[anson harris]

Quite right Gammon Flaps. I was assuming a desire to remain tax-free. There is indeed a DTA.

[CAT3A]

Gammon Flaps ,

Any link regarding the tax situation for a UK resident. Am trying to find any info regarding your last post.

[fliion]

fatty

Good question re travel bennies - So I asked directly & specifically.

Here is what I gathered from verbal response.

When you travel to ICN to rotate in for your days "on" its bizzo pos space.
On way back to your domicile its "Y" upgradeable to J according to the info sheet handed out - however VP FLT OPS KAL interjected during the Agency guys presentation and said "guys it's biz both ways every time - trust me it won't be an issue"

Re Family - you get four (ALTs) return tickets positive space for you, your wife and kids Y upgradeable to J on the KAL network per annum. This can be a multi stop sector ie LHR - ICN - AKL or whatever, doesn't matter. And you don't have to be traveling together, as in its four per individual direct family member. As long as it's on the KAL network - you are guaranteed a seat for you and fam four times per year. During this discussion CAPT RM (ex EK) spoke up and said that 9 out of ten times he and his fam were upgraded to biz. So KAL offer four ALTs confirmed per year per family member with a 90% chance up upgrades which gives you an idea how far out of the ballpark EK are. Also doesn't matter how old your kids are. If you go to 65 and they're 40.. They are your kids and entitled. Sheds a different light on EKs cut off of kids at a young age - I digress. Also full ZED priveleges for you and fam on OALs.

Personally I've been averaging 12 day off a month in the last year - these are 2's and 3's at a time and dont help my fatigue & quality time at home. The KAL contract gives you more in a row and I think will suit many of the younger and older guys.

Those in the middle life stage like me with kids in good schools at a critical age - hmm different story - as housing / schooling here decent....as long as the 3rd floor doesn't fckk with me , fine..but.first bit of nazi drama - I'm gone.

I think (and dearly hope) they will get a good few and a mini exodus takes place

I know, pathetic that I'm not pulling for my team - that's sad... But neither is anyone I know

"What to do sahib..."

[Kapitanleutnant]

You have to wonder if it's a complete cultural thing that EK and other ME carriers don't offer what is on the table everywhere else. It's as if each is waiting to let the other guy be first to offer a commute type contract or 4 ALT's per year and then the wall will crumble… but as we all know, the culture is one of… you can't give in as it will show weakness and we certainly can't have that. We'd rather have pilots who are literally tired of our ways and fatigued to the hilt using layovers for basically getting caught up on sleep anymore these days.

Who will be the first….??? Lol….

Kap

[ekolbregit]

The 4 annual tickets are not positive space. At ticket issue, they may be confirmed economy, upgradable to business, or they may be waitlisted. It depends on day, flight and full fare bookings.

[Kapitanleutnant]

ekolbriget…

Is it possible that since a few other things are changing at KAL that the ALT's are indeed now confirmed? Only ask because it does seem like KAL are trying to make some new changes for the better for flight crew what with the 380 DEC openings to all as well as FO's now apparently being upgraded…..?

Just wondering out loud.

Kap

[aussiefarmer]

My bs side of the balance is reaching the limit here at EK.

I couldn't make it to the roadshow.

- Are they taking direct entry rated FOs onto the 380?

- If yes, could anyone PM me a contact ie email from the guys that did the roadshow so I can get all the fact sheets?

Appreciate it :)

And remember there's a better life out there waiting for us :ok:

[Avid Aviator]

Wiz,
I think there's a tax treaty between Korea and Aust, so if you meet the Korean tax requirements (which KAL do for you) then you have met your tax liabilities as an Australian resident. Nothing else to pay.
Note that I'm a pilot and NOT an international tax expert, but I do know that is the way it applies to CSA pilots resident in Australia.

[Wizofoz]

Thanks AA- Is anyone in touch with an Aussie currently working for KA?

[fliion]

Wiz

Sent you PM

[shakealeg]

I see the contract is 5 years. What was the info regarding penalties if leaving that contract early?

[CAT3A]

Minimum you have to give them a year, after that 2 months notice

[ekolbregit]

Wiz. Another pm

[HPSOV L]

Sheep shaggers (you know who you are...):

https://www.google.co.kr/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.nzica.com/Training-and-events/CPD-policy-and-online-log/~/media/NZICA/Docs/Resources%2520and%2520publications/2014%2520Tax%2520Conference/McCrae%2520Williams%2520paper.ashx&ved=0CBwQFjAAahUKEwi4jMnz_JvIAhUKbxQKHWqZBnA&usg=AFQjCNH9Mcf3NBnUu8P8co92sGxVev_iyg

[Poster]

Has KAL got better or worse? You can judge for yourself. This information comes from very reliable sources I still keep in touch with.

KAL is still an attractive place for Expat pilots because of the commuting.

The company needs Expats badly but will not accept it, they are in total denial still trying to attract pilots with half true promises instead of paying experienced pilots what they are worth.

The local pilots dislike the expat pilots and have total unsupervised control of the line training and checking.

Mostly everything in their country is done so it "looks good" in paper and at the end it comes back to bite them in the rear

The Expat Pilot group has been in the 400 mark for the last 10 years or more after hiring an average of 12 pilots per month. They loose as many pilots as they hire.

The simulator screening is done by a very inexperienced and malicious group of local pilots, if your procedures are not similar to KAL's then you are not good (for them there is nothing beyond KAL) not long ago a group of wannabes were failed because "they entered a prohibited area" while purposely being radar vectored to it.

Training for TR Pilots is 4+ and for NTR 5+ months minimum without going home at all and on reduced pay (70%).

Pilots are still being sent home at the end of training (if they are not terminated before) when they don't pass the final check with Korean CAA, the trainee goes on the final flight with a local check pilot that is scare ****e of the Inspector and won't do anything for him during the flight because he thinks it will look like he is helping the trainee. Yeah CRM, What's that? Oh yes, something that "looks nice" in the manuals. Recently a very experienced ex KLM pilot got the boot after 5 months in training and not passing the line check.

Making it through training is not based on performance only, if they don't like how you stand up or walk, you are done. Many very experienced pilots have been sent home for very unfair reasons. A really waste of talent.

Once on the line all recurrent training, scheduled and unscheduled checks are spread through the year to keep you under pressure. The latest Korean CAA thing is to audit sim recurrent checks and request to include bizarre manoeuvers in the profile. You can imagine the results, more failures including local pilots.

Flight hours are factored and credited depending on the number of Pilots in the crew, 2/3 for 3 pilots and 1/2 for 4 pilots. Local pilots get 100% credit even if deadheading. You will be scheduled to max hours and not get any overtime.

What they advertise as contract conditions are not all true and some are half true. Here is the fine print.

5 year contract renewable until 65 for Captains,

The renewal notice is sent to you by the agency 2 months before of the end of the contract, there is no assurance that your contract will be renewed until then. There might be a report from an FO or anybody that just didn't like you for any reason. The reporting system is not transparent and they will never give you any details. Can you get a job in 2 months?

Starting recently the renewal after 60 is done selectively and on a one year contract until 65 at a reduced salary. KAL is not the place for anybody that plans to work past 60 and with the pay they offer, well you do you the math.

First class Hotels, in Seoul yes it is a nice Hotel.
Overseas, haha good one!

Generous travel benefits for employees and their family members, what they mean is travel ticket authorisations because there is no assurance you will travel. The tickets are suppose to be confirmed Y sublo C, not true you and your family can be bumped at any time. It happens a lot.

Days off, yeah the 9 plus 2 is what you can take. You can save the extra 2 days and take them later up to a max of 16 days in a row with no back to back. Normally it works fine and you get the days you want because of the factoring you can't be scheduled any more.

Upgrades for FOs, it will never happen. I can't believe they even showed this card. They are getting desperate.

Somebody mentioned in this forum that they have opened the DEC hiring for the A380, why would you like to risk to be unemployed with that type rating if you don't make it through the training and for the money they are offering.

The internal A380 transition course offered was massively rejected by their own expats because of the appalling conditions. The flight time factoring will have you working for half the credit as most of the flights are double crewed.

KAL has become a training facility for NTR pilots that get there and pay their dues to get the experience needed to move on. The sooner KAL accept this reality the sooner they will stop wasting money training people that will leave as soon as they can and failing experienced pilots for stupid reasons.

From a previous post in this thread

"The ME3 pay is lagging, Korean seems to run a lot of people through their company, Turkish and Ethiopian are hungry for pilots also, but don't pay well.

Something has to give. What and when are the million Euro questions, but I would not take a pay cut to take a Korean job.

I believe the companies who rely on expat pilots are going to forced to pay more very soon"

This assestment is bang on the money in my opinion. Hang on where you are, the current situation of these companies paying low salaries and poaching pilots among each other can not be sustainable for very long.

Do you feel like testing your luck and giving KAL a go? Your call.

[bringbackthe80s]

Poster thanks for the informative post, very well explained.

The way I see it is one should inform himself very well on the country where he is about to venture BEFORE going for a job (unless you desperately need one of course)...many times when I read experiences or comments about a contract like this one, you see the exact pattern you would expect from the system and the mentality of the country. The same goes for China and a lot of other places that now offer jobs to western pilots.

It is not the west and you will deal with local structures, patterns and approaches which will be VERY far away from flying in the US or Europe where decades and decades ago aviation developed to what it is now thanks to learning from accidents and mistakes and an open and just report system of events. One should be very aware that the salary you will get is intended to compensate you for your willingness to operate to very different standards as well as flying from A to B.
This is how I see it and very happy to be correctd.

[Rather Be Skiing]

... It is not the west and you will deal with local structures, patterns and approaches which will be VERY far away from flying in the US or Europe where decades and decades ago aviation developed to what it is now thanks to learning from accidents and mistakes and an open and just report system of events. One should be very aware that the salary you will get is intended to compensate you for your williness to operate to very different standards as well as flying from A to B. This is how I see it and very happy to be correctd.

You mean kinda like working in the Sandbox?

As a friend that works at Korean told me, the job is s#*%*y, but he always gets the days off he wants, including Christmas for the last 5+ years and most importantly he lives at home. That makes it vastly better than EK... for him.

The issue for me is one of life style/balance. As time progresses EK and Dubai offer less and less. So, if I am going to work for a company/job I don't like, it would be nice to offset that with satisfaction in other areas.

Whether KAL is the answer to that or not, I am not sure, but I am exploring any options that can tip the scales back to a more favourable position.