12 Sqn get ANOTHER 12 months

[HaveQuick2]

Mr Fallon said this second reprieve for the eight bombers based in Cyprus would ensure the RAF retained "the essential precision firepower, intelligence and surveillance" capabilities needed for operations against IS - also known as Isil.

Speaking in Baghdad, where he has met Iraqi officials, he said Iraq needed British help with air support, training and equipment, but not with ground troops.

"RAF Tornados have carried out hundreds of strikes, helping Iraqi forces push back Isil from the Kurdish region and out of key towns such as Tikrit and Bayji," he said.

"We want to ensure we maintain this crucial operational tempo and so we will extend the lifetime of Number 12 Squadron for a further year to March 2017."


Islamic State crisis: UK to extend air strikes over Iraq - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33762564)

[Selatar]

Not as if he had much choice

[Biggus]

Presumably it won't make this situation any easier?

http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/562657-shortage-navs.html

[VX275]

Is it a roundabout way of saying the Typhoon can't do the job?

[P6 Driver]

The UK Defence Secretary was interviewed on R4 this morning and I'm fairly sure I heard him say at one point "we have plenty of aircraft" or something similar. With a straight face, presumably.

[Easy Street]

Is it a roundabout way of saying the Typhoon can't do the job?

That's already acknowledged so I doubt Fallon is being deliberately obtuse. The Typhoon can't use the dual-mode Brimstone missiles that are the Tornado's most flexible surface attack weapon, and on current forecasts won't be able to do so until 2018ish. Hence the planned Tornado retirement in 2019. All that is a matter of public record.

Although not relevant to the current campaign, similar issues affect the UK Stormshadow capability. Now, as to whether Eurofighter and BAE can deliver the weapons integration on schedule... we'll see!

[Not_a_boffin]

Is it a roundabout way of saying the Typhoon can't do the job?

Hopefully, it'll be another piece of evidence to suggest that 7 FJ sqns in Force 2020 just ain't enough. You can't do QRA, carrier strike and maintain any other contingency with that number.

[orgASMic]

All we need now is for someone to find a bag of willing WSOs down the back of the sofa and we are sorted.

[KPax]

With WSO's also being required for a new MPA, they might have to start a course for WSO's.

[Sevarg]

Out of a matter of interest how many hours do these 'clapped out' air frames have on them and what would be considered full life on average?

[Brian W May]

That's Kris's Kebab Shop saved for another year then . . .

[Could be the last?]

KPax, I assume that is a wahhhhh?

[dctyke]

So is 12sqn a non-formed unit now or are the same guys taking all the pain? Last I saw on egoat earlier in the year there was no kebabs as they were all confined to base and treated like second class people by the unit.

[Heathrow Harry]

Probably stay as second class citizens until the MoD announces the "ISIS Campaign Medal" at which point they 'll all be sent to the beach while SO's deperately try and qualify for the gong................... :cool:

[Courtney Mil]

HH, slightly bitter, Mate.

On the point about WSOs, I wonder how well Fallon actually understands the big picture here. But that's OK, we wouldn't want military facts to get in the way of SDSR, would we?

I can hear it now, and well deserved, "Courtney, slightly bitter, Mate!"

[Mr Oleo Strut]

Thank goodness we've still got these fine old aircraft and their equally gallant crews. The year's reprieve granted to this squadron by that old Thatcherite windbag Fallon exposes the paper-thin nature of our air force. Slashed and burned by this dreadful government our forces are struggling to cope. Has anybody got any idea how much this business is costing the UK and the effectiveness of the air-strikes? Are they worth the risk to personnel and aircraft?

[downsizer]

So is 12sqn a non-formed unit now or are the same guys taking all the pain? Last I saw on egoat earlier in the year there was no kebabs as they were all confined to base and treated like second class people by the unit.

12 Sqn is a formed unit, basically it's mostly the same people who were on II.

9, 31, and 12 are rotating through continually.

[xray one]

I'm not a betting man, however, I'd wager the Tornado goes on well past the current projected retirement age...and by some margin.

It does the job well, and if it can stay serviceable, it's very capable and good value.

[salad-dodger]

It does the job well, and if it can stay serviceable, it's very capable and good value.
Like that makes any difference whatsoever.

S-D

[Harley Quinn]

I think the Harrier Force had the same view, and theirs was a pretty brutal end in 2010.

[edwardspannerhands]

The Government's "Fox Hunting Bill" foiled again!!!
Well.....for 12 months anyhow.
And the mighty 12(B) get to Lead the Field a little while longer.

[Mr Oleo Strut]

Why don't we just buy back all those Harriers we gave to the US, and some of those AV8s that are standing out in the US desert doing nothing?

[Not_a_boffin]

Why don't we just buy back all those Harriers we gave to the US, and some of those AV8s that are standing out in the US desert doing nothing?

1. Because there is no support structure remaining in the UK and no money to pay for one.
2. Because a significant number of those frames have been xmas-tree'd to provide spares for the US fleet.
3. Because the only AV8 frames in the desert are 50 of ours and the USMC want all of them to keep their AV8s viable to OSD.

[jindabyne]

P6 Driver,

On a previous thread, I posted references to Fallon's first speech as Defence Minister back in October. Two of those referred to 'Fleets of new fighter aircraft' and 'Our armed forces have not been in a better state since the end of the Cold War'. I've seen nothing in his subsequent public comments over Defence matters that point to his greater understanding of things. I recently wrote to my new Con MP to seek her views on Defence: she gave me a fulsome reply which simply lifted, verbatim, quotes from that original Fallon speech. :E

[xray one]

HD & SQ

the difference this time is there's nothing else left (unless they get their act together with the Typhoon). The embarrassment of telling the world we can't do offensive ops would be unacceptable to the British public and Government.

As for what we've scrapped. In those temperatures the Jag and Harrier would struggle (Harrier less so), and after what happened to the poor Jordanian F16 pilot, who would want to fly single engine anyway?

Don't get me started on the MPA fleet...

[Mr Oleo Strut]

Thanks, Not_a_Boffin, but what a waste. It'll have to be Airfix kits after all, unless they've also gone to the wall.

[Wander00]

Now where did we put all those Canberras?......hat, coat,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Davef68]

Now where did we put all those Canberras?......hat, coat,,,,,,,,,,,,


At least it wouldn't take 5 years to clear a new weapon on a canberra!

[Romeo Oscar Golf]

MustRefurbishCanberraAgain. Oh bogger...thats what we're talking about!

[Hangarshuffle]

Oleo,
There isn't any recognisable UK strategy in the Middle east, and hasn't been since...2005 or 2006 (if ever)? The bombing makes little news and seems to make less sense. Most UK citizens will have little idea why the Tornadoes are used and to what purpose.
The crews must be incredibly dedicated, high end professionals and nothing less to keep on doing this - In fact I know they are.
But to what end?
I would love to see a no holds barred, alcohol fuelled late night TV debate between the general public, the military who have served, their military bosses and the politicians who issued the orders about it all.
Costs wont even commute with our Govt. of any hue - they hose our money away in incredible amounts.

[andrewn]

Recent governments clearly boxed themselves in with the "5 or 6 FJ sqns will be enough" statement. What's now even clearer is that the planning assumptions that underpinned those decisions were gravely flawed - as most of us on here knew at the time.


it doesn't matter how "network centric" your new jet is - if you've only got a handful of them you're stuffed. Instead of continually chasing the technology what would be better is a more balanced (and overall larger) force of old and new. There's many on here that have bleated time and again about buying a few squadrons worth of Super Hornets or Strike Eagles to augment Typhoon, and the more you think about it the more it makes sense. Seems to work OK for the Aussies after all.


Long live the Mighty Fin!

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

and no money to pay for...


anything :sad:

I would love to see a no holds barred, alcohol fuelled late night TV debate between the general public, the military who have served, their military bosses and the politicians who issued the orders about it all.

Items 3 and 4 would likely be 'bottled' by item 2 within 3 minutes. Item 1 would likely be pleased to see their military winning for a change. ;)

There isn't any recognisable UK strategy in the Middle east,

Exactly what are the UK's objectives, and exactly how will current force deployments achieve that?

And would somebody please explain why F-35s are needed when the UK is being successfully invaded via Calais and Eurotunnel?

[Wander00]

ISTR reading that 19th C objections to tunnel were predicated on preventing invasion from the Continent - and Napoleon was a pussycat compared with ISIL

[hunterboy]

I'm glad to see somebody recognising that the UK is being invaded through the Eurotunnel. Would the UK's response be any different if all the migrants were marching through wearing a military uniform? If so, what is the difference? The uniform?
It smacks of a government that is lurching from crisis to crisis with absolutely zero forward planning.

[Heathrow Harry]

calm down!

no -one has managed to get through the Chunnel on foot - the latest guy was detected 15 km out

just before the Chunnel was opened a couple of Army units were relocated to the area - IIRC the Gurkhas are based close to the UK entrance portal

and you could always just flood it .................

[Wander00]

Well, if the Gurkhas are involved an intruder will only need to cough out of turn and his head will be talking to his feet. I am content...................

[dctyke]

HH, the tunnel is the last of our worries. Who is stopping the migrants coming across on boats in their hundreds. Of course it's not talked about because there is really nothing we can do about it! There are thousands of movements to and fro by private boats and yachts between England and France every weekend in summer.

[Ian Corrigible]

UK to beg Italy and Germany for spare parts for RAF bombers (http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/597046/RAF-to-run-out-of-bomber-parts)
A senior [Whitehall] source said last night: “There are three sensitive parts, in particular, over which availability is causing some concern... At this stage we don’t know whether Germany or Italy can spare them, since they have their own commitments, but the request has been made."
Meanwhile...
A [Ministry of Defence] spokesman said: “Spares are not running low and there is no shortage of spares for the UK Tornado fleet.”

[Treble one]

There's a couple of TSR2's at Duxford and Cosford if it helps to lighten the load...?

[Heathrow Harry]

"There are thousands of movements to and fro by private boats and yachts between England and France every weekend in summer."

Indeed - have you MET the average yacht owner????? Not the sort of people who suddenly decide to load up with a couple of dozen refugees - I'll bet 95% of them are UKIP supporters

[Wander00]

They would keel-haul any of them that tried

[Frostchamber]

QUOTE: “There are three sensitive parts, in particular...causing some concern..."


I know the feeling.

[Easy Street]

It would be a delicious irony if any of the three reportedly-critical parts were included in the long-running Tornado spares reduction programme, in which perfectly good parts were disposed of in order to reduce RAB and storage charges. Every time the OSD got brought forward, off went another batch...

[Fluffy Bunny]

It's perfectly fine... All those spare parts are available, they're on Flea-bay! :sad::eek: